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Analysing The Maker


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#26
Aren

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That's all this is, I think. BioWare just wants to make the Maker less of a fact in the series. So they injected doubt. The Gauntlet can now be explained as a titan residing under the temple, or lyrium running all through it, or whatever. Or maybe this was the titan Mythal slayed, and then the Temple of Andraste was built over it. The story about the Veil is also now in doubt. Solas claims he created it. The Chantry claims the Maker created it. Both can't be right. I think Solas is mistaken, as usual.

I don't think Solas created the veil nor that he had the power to do it,probably he simply reconfigured it and use it to separate the fade from the mortal world.



#27
straykat

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Well, I am sticking to my belief that the "Maker" is still Solas.   He did in fact "Make" the world in a sense when he split off the 'fade' from the old world.   Why doesn't the Maker intervene?   Well, he's been 'asleep' all this time and he just recently woke up and realized.... the world he "made" was a mistake.    Now he wants to Un-make it.  

 

Seriously,  how would the ancient humans that lived at that time tell tales about the events that happened then?   The elves tell tales of Fen'Harel banishing the other gods.   The humans...  well they had their origin divinity tale origin inspired there as well. 

 

If that isn't the setup for a great story discovery...

 

How exactly did you jump from Solas being Fen'Harel to the person who created everything in the universe? From the smallest weed to the nug to the biggest giant. To the vast oceans to the sunlight and everything in between. What suddenly made him a creator type of god?

 

Even Gaider said once that the elven gods and the Maker are separate.


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#28
Iakus

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The Maker isn't in the Fade. Andrastianism is deist. Not theist. i.e. Their god doesn't care. He left.

 

 

Speaking of which, that's the silly thing about this game's premise. This was established lore before.. there's no reason why so many Chantry people would believe the main character was saved by Andraste. Only people like Leliana were like this in the setting before. It made her odd. Even Wynne criticized her. Now suddenly everyone in Haven is a theist and instantly duped by whatever character we can dream up.

Well, the whole "Herald of Andraste" thing didn't come up until the Inquisitor patches over the Breach.  Combine that with the Inquisitor stepping out of the Fade after being led through a smaller breach by a mysterious woman, and you have the makings of a divinely-sent hero with a unique power that is exactly what they needed to stop a demonic invasion.

 

And no major religious authority to say otherwise.



#29
straykat

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Well, the whole "Herald of Andraste" thing didn't come up until the Inquisitor patches over the Breach.  Combine that with the Inquisitor stepping out of the Fade after being led through a smaller breach by a mysterious woman, and you have the makings of a divinely-sent hero with a unique power that is exactly what they needed to stop a demonic invasion.

 

And no major religious authority to say otherwise.

 

I don't have the makings of anything but a stupid story. It's never even been believable to me, as an enthusiast of the setting. At best, it's written for people who were new.

 

And they aren't "exactly" what is needed. It's harder to get a job at a grocery store than it is to rule this world apparently. The Inquisitor has no apparent qualifications except the Mark. No believable career path for most of them.. let alone a religious path.



#30
Illegitimus

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I don't have the makings of anything but a stupid story. It's never even been believable to me, as an enthusiast of the setting. At best, it's written for people who were new.

 

And they aren't "exactly" what is needed. It's harder to get a job at a grocery store than it is to rule this world apparently. The Inquisitor has no apparent qualifications except the Mark. No believable career path for most of them.. let alone a religious path.

 

Gosh, if being the only person keeping the world from dissolving into demon goo isn't qualification enough to get some respect...what is?  



#31
Iakus

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I don't have the makings of anything but a stupid story. It's never even been believable to me, as an enthusiast of the setting. At best, it's written for people who were new.

 

And they aren't "exactly" what is needed. It's harder to get a job at a grocery store than it is to rule this world apparently. The Inquisitor has no apparent qualifications except the Mark. No believable career path for most of them.. let alone a religious path.

Except the Inquisitor isn't "ruling the world"  The Inquisitor is saving it.  

 

And yes, the Inquisitor has the Mark, making him or her uniquely suited to closing the rifts that threaten Thedas.  

 

Being the only survivor of a cataclysm that killed thousands, walking out of the Fade (a feat no one had accomplished in a thousand years) guided by a mysterious glowing woman, Is going to give people of a religious bent certain savior-like cues to follow.



#32
Bayonet Hipshot

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The Maker is one of these things -

 

1) A god of the old human Neromenian tribes that was adapted into the Chantry doctrine. In which case that god would have been a powerful Fade spirit or a Titan since ancient Human tribes worship spirits and Titans as their gods. Modern day Humans are descended from these tribes so the possibility of them adapting a long forgotten Neromenian tribe is highly possible.

 

2) The Sun from the ancient Elven legends. If you know your Elven lore, Elgar'nan made the Sun his b**ch because he was pissed at it and Mythal intervened and pleaded to Elgar'nan to restore it back. If you look at the Chantry iconography, it feature the Sun a lot.

 

3) A very powerful Spirit of Faith that was attracted to the powerful Alamarri mage known as Andraste. The spirit then bonded with Andraste willingly, in the same way that Wynne bonded with a Spirit of Faith, or assissted it in some way. When she was burnt at the stake in Minrathous, the spirit escaped or died and it has reformed but now is indifferent to human concerns. It would explain the "union" between Andraste and the Maker. Bet Maferath was loving the threesome. Justanders would have been proud.

 

4) All of the above. What do I mean ? The Sun in ancient Elven legend could be a very powerful Spirit of Faith that did not bow down to Elgar'nan's whims. To which he fought with it imprisoned it away until Mythal implored him to do otherwise. Recall that the ancient Elves were Fade spirits who became Elves. In response to this, the powerful Spirit of Faith ignored the ancient Elves and decided to "leave its first children" to their own machinations. Then along came the Egghead and the Veil. The tale of this Spirit of Faith probably survived and it was adopted by the Neromenian tribe as their god. When Andraste, a powerful mage, decided to pray to it, the Spirit of Faith responded. Its interaction with Andraste empowered her and her army to fight the Vints. But she was caught and roasted. Looking at that tragedy, this Spirit of Faith decided to abandon "its second children" (the Humans came after the Elves, after the Veil was formed since there are no records to indicate otherwise).  Either the Spirit abandoned humans or was destroyed along with Andraste or was severely weakened when she was roasted because of how the Spirit might have bonded with her Wynne-style. From Jaws of Hakkon DLC, we know that if a group of people decided to sing and chant a spirit into existence, it will happen. Perhaps that is what the Chant of Light is. A massive singing manual about faith that is supposed to rebirth the powerful Spirit of Faith back to its former splendor. Hence the need to "spread the Chant to all four corners of the world". If you want to rebirth a powerful Spirit of Faith, one powerful enough to challenge the Evanuris, you will need a lot of singing.

 

5) The Maker is not real and its a pile of nonsensical ramblings.

 

I am inclined to believe the option no.4, even though I am nonreligious because of the amount of coincidental evidence that keeps popping up everywhere.


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#33
Medhia_Nox

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I don't have the makings of anything but a stupid story. It's never even been believable to me, as an enthusiast of the setting. At best, it's written for people who were new.

 

And they aren't "exactly" what is needed. It's harder to get a job at a grocery store than it is to rule this world apparently. The Inquisitor has no apparent qualifications except the Mark. No believable career path for most of them.. let alone a religious path.

 

And what were Alexander's initial "qualifications" before he walked across half of the world and conquered it with ****** and vinegar (oh, and swords... there were swords).

 

Olympias, Alexander's mother, convinced him he was the son of Zeus (there was an oracle that told him this as well)... he became Pharaoh of Egypt... was related to Hercules, idolized Achillies... and grabbed a great many myths alongside those to bolster his "qualifications".

 

And then he trounced the world wholesale on pure "real conquerors of eastern Europe" popularity. 

 

So I'd say that the Inquisitor... with his green hand portal closer talents... is far more qualified than many of our own world historical figures.

 

Don't put too much stock on "son of Phillip of Macedon" - for while Macedon was rising at the time (thank you Phil) it was hardly some massive world power - Alexander was just a momma's boy at the time he decided "Yeah, I'm special". 

 

Murder helped too... got dad out of the way. 

 

Never underestimate the Cult of Personality... it shapes our world more than even any fictional one yet invented.



#34
Anaeme

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The Maker is one of these things -

 

1) A god of the old human Neromenian tribes that was adapted into the Chantry doctrine. In which case that god would have been a powerful Fade spirit or a Titan since ancient Human tribes worship spirits and Titans as their gods. Modern day Humans are descended from these tribes so the possibility of them adapting a long forgotten Neromenian tribe is highly possible.

 

2) The Sun from the ancient Elven legends. If you know your Elven lore, Elgar'nan made the Sun his b**ch because he was pissed at it and Mythal intervened and pleaded to Elgar'nan to restore it back. If you look at the Chantry iconography, it feature the Sun a lot.

 

3) A very powerful Spirit of Faith that was attracted to the powerful Alamarri mage known as Andraste. The spirit then bonded with Andraste willingly, in the same way that Wynne bonded with a Spirit of Faith, or assissted it in some way. When she was burnt at the stake in Minrathous, the spirit escaped or died and it has reformed but now is indifferent to human concerns. It would explain the "union" between Andraste and the Maker. Bet Maferath was loving the threesome. Justanders would have been proud.

 

4) All of the above. What do I mean ? The Sun in ancient Elven legend could be a very powerful Spirit of Faith that did not bow down to Elgar'nan's whims. To which he fought with it imprisoned it away until Mythal implored him to do otherwise. Recall that the ancient Elves were Fade spirits who became Elves. In response to this, the powerful Spirit of Faith ignored the ancient Elves and decided to "leave its first children" to their own machinations. Then along came the Egghead and the Veil. The tale of this Spirit of Faith probably survived and it was adopted by the Neromenian tribe as their god. When Andraste, a powerful mage, decided to pray to it, the Spirit of Faith responded. Its interaction with Andraste empowered her and her army to fight the Vints. But she was caught and roasted. Looking at that tragedy, this Spirit of Faith decided to abandon "its second children" (the Humans came after the Elves, after the Veil was formed since there are no records to indicate otherwise).  Either the Spirit abandoned humans or was destroyed along with Andraste or was severely weakened when she was roasted because of how the Spirit might have bonded with her Wynne-style. From Jaws of Hakkon DLC, we know that if a group of people decided to sing and chant a spirit into existence, it will happen. Perhaps that is what the Chant of Light is. A massive singing manual about faith that is supposed to rebirth the powerful Spirit of Faith back to its former splendor. Hence the need to "spread the Chant to all four corners of the world". If you want to rebirth a powerful Spirit of Faith, one powerful enough to challenge the Evanuris, you will need a lot of singing.

 

5) The Maker is not real and its a pile of nonsensical ramblings.

 

I am inclined to believe the option no.4, even though I am nonreligious because of the amount of coincidental evidence that keeps popping up everywhere.

 

Wow...This is very in depth analysis. Well done

 

I used to think the Chantry version of history was the closest to the truth until DAI and its DLCs came along and wrecked everything. 



#35
Ghost Gal

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Yeah, I don't understand that. I don't mind it either.. but they need to be consistent. Real people don't switch like that, even under stress. 

 

No, actually they do.

 

While not universal, a lot of people actually do to become much more religious when they're in mortal peril, dying (or think they're dying), or are approaching old age (and thus their own mortality). 

 

While not universal, it's pretty common for born-again Christians or recently more annoyingly religious folks to cite a "miracle" or "life-changing experience" (usually a near-death experience or a fatal diagnosis) as the imposes for their renewed faith / devotion in God.

 

While not universal, a lot of people who find themselves in near-death experiences (a robber pointing a loaded gun to their face, falling down a well, getting lost in the woods, etc), suddenly they start praying to God more fervently than they ever did in their lives, hoping against hope He (or some other higher power) is up there and hearing their prayers and doing something to help them.

 

People are terrified of death and the unknown fate thereafter, so it's much more comforting to think there's a higher power that'll protect and look after them. Aldous Huxley discusses this in his dystopian future books. Notice that young people (on average) tend not to be very religious because, as the saying goes, "Young people think they'll live forever / have their whole lives ahead of them." By contrast, older people (on average) tend to be much more religious. The difference? Their death is coming, and suddenly they wanna get in on the good graves of that higher power that'll protect and shelter and preserve them after death.

 

Again, I'm not saying it's universal, but it's not non-existent either.

 

It would shape your whole psychology if you believed you were on your own, more or less.

 

Except they don't think they're on their own. Not completely. They believe that there is a Maker's out there, and that faithful souls "go to the Maker's side" when they die, and that the Maker will come back and look over mortals again if they suck up to him longly and widely enough.

 

While religious dogma says, "He won't come back till that day," the terror of their own morality and the basic primal need that all humans have for a loving, parental figure to protect us when we're scared and/or in danger would believably push them to move "until that day" to "today is that day."

 

Besides, notice they name you the "Herald of Andraste," not "the Herald of the Maker." The Maker may be described as a full-blown misanthrope, but Andraste hasn't been.

 

The Jury's still out on where her followers think her soul went after she died (I mean, besides "The Maker's side"), but no one said she hated mortals and abandoned them too. As Leliana and Cassandra tell you at the start of the game, people were desperately terrified when the sky blew open and demons poured out, then a random person stepped out of a rift with a mysterious woman seen behind them. Later, that person was discovered to have the only means to closing the hole in the sky and saving everyone from becoming demon chow. People wanted to believe, "That woman was Andraste! She's come back!" because then it means divinity is on their side. A higher power is looking out for them.

 

The Maker may have abandoned them, but Andraste hasn't. And technically the Maker loves Andraste (she is his "bride," after all), so if she gives her personal seal of approval to the Herald, then the Maker might begrudgingly help out too.

 

Mostly though, I think they just tried to play with this "intervention" angle because someone in charge thought it was an "awesome" idea, and everyone simply had to go along with it.

 

That's fair. I agree.



#36
Anaeme

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Please folks let us stay away from real world religions in this discussion and focus on the game...



#37
Illegitimus

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Please folks let us stay away from real world religions in this discussion and focus on the game...

 

The problem with that is that people keep claiming that things that really happen are totally implausible.