24 réponses à ce sujet

[Qun00]

I've tried reading several opinions on this, but there seems to be no consensus and I can't tell who's right or wrong.

Now, I haven't tested a cunning build but this is what I understand from what I've read so far:

You see... what I care about the most is damage output. I'm not sure whether cunning does that on its own since it only contributes indirectly through buffs and crits rather than affecting regular attacks.

And some claim that the defense vulnerability doesn't matter since you're attacking from long range but that's not true. Enemies often do come after you and attack at melee range anyway.

All that said, I remember that my archer's regular attacks in Awakening dealt 90 damage, while Nathaniel occasionally ditched out over 300 damage. I don't remember doing anything special to power him up. Maybe his build was more cunning oriented than mine.

[dainbramage]

I think you've got some different games mixed up. Cunning in origins directly influences your damage if you have lethality (so only rogues need apply for cunning builds). Cunning also boosts ap and some rogue talents (e.g. Song of courage or tainted blade), but doesn't directly boost crits.

Now, the reason there's no consensus is that one build isn't directly better than the other. Cunning does more damage and has more utility with traps and party buffs; dex has better attack and defence. If all you want is damage output (and you can get your attack satisfactory) then cunning well be better.

Awakening is a completely different beast because of the accuracy talent. That makes dex way better than cun in all cases

[Qun00]

How much is wise to put into willpower for stamina?

[Heimerdinger]

Bow damage - 50% Strength 50% Dexterity

 

strength - gives + 0,6 damage per point (for all weapons except crossbows and staves)

dexterity - increases attack score (for ranged weapons it is the only attribute that does this)

cunning - increases armor penetration. (does not give critical damage bonus, that's DA2 territory). Replaces strength if Lethality is taken on rogues.

 

I think the highest damage output in Origins would be Rogue Archer with Dexterity - Cunning build and Lethality. 34 Dexterity (for equipping tier 7 bows) and the rest in Cunning. For a Warrior Archer: 34 Dex and the rest in strength.

 

In Awakening, a respec to a dexterity focused build is a good approach because the Accuracy sustain gives:

 

+(Dexterity - 10) * 0.5% attack and damage

+(Dexterity - 10) * 0.5% range critical damage

+(Dexterity - 10) * 0.5% ranged critical chance, and this can be doubled by activating Aim after it. You can get 100% critical chance.

 

Willpower - depends how many talents you want to use and how often. According to wikia the archer talents have poor cost-efficiency ratio so you are better of with auto-attacks most of the time. I found Scattershot and Shattering Shot to be the most useful and didn't need too much stamina for them. Around 20 willpower max. Some points are free anyway (from the Fade).

 

This is the article on Archery efficiency in DAO: http://dragonage.wik...icient_Approach It's an interesting read.

[Qis]

i always put points equally for my archer, be it rogue or warrior. For rogue archer dex and cun equally, for warrior archer str and dex equally.

 

There are pros and cons for both.

 

Rogue archer with dex and cun equal

- it's a fun buld because can lockpick and stealth

- high critical and armor penetration for auto attack with Lethality and Bard spec

- can summon animals with Ranger spec

- easily pass persuasion and having cun dialogues

- have a lot of skill points as a Rogue

- a lot of miss firing in early game

- lack armor choices due to low str point

- cannot escape enemy mob aggro other than using high level Stealth, party members tanking or party members using spells

 

Warrior archer with str dex equal

- with Precise Striking less miss firing in early game

- can aggro enemy using Taunt, can tank

- can Disengage if cannot handle enemy mob

- can AoE knockdown mob with Champion spec

- if get negative buff on self that reduce attack, use Perfect Striking that give 100% attack

- can Holy Smite with Templar spec, sadly Righteous Strike don't work

- can wear a lot of armor types but need Master Archer talent to counter reduced attack speed

- cannot lockpick and stealth as a warrior

- less skill point as a warrior

- only Champion and Templar spec that really work for warrior archer build

- less armor penetration and critical in auto attack, but it don't really matter

 

So i say, both are okay for archer, but if really want to focus on combat archer i say better play as warrior str and dex archer

[straykat]

Warrior will really shine in DAA and so forth. If you have the +SPR items.

 

For Rogue, don't even bother with Will or Con. You don't really need it on anything, for that matter.

[cJohnOne]

Archers have a problem with hitting stuff so I would definitely get dexterity.  I'm more a 2 dex to 1 cunning sort of guy though.  Not sure if i'd get lethality with that build.  I'd only go 50% cunning for opening chests but I don't think it's worth that unless you want to get gifts for Zevran.

[dainbramage]

i always put points equally for my archer, be it rogue or warrior. For rogue archer dex and cun equally, for warrior archer str and dex equally.

For warriors there isn't any real benefit to strength once you can wear tier 7 heavy armor (38 iirc?). After that point dex gives the same attack and damage, but also defence.

Though archer warriors can make excellent tanks as you say. Taunt and scattershot draw aggro well, high defence from dex and defensive fire, and suppressing fire is a nice debuff (especially when applied by scattershot, -15 attack to every enemy)

[Qun00]

Warrior will really shine in DAA and so forth. If you have the +SPR items.
 
For Rogue, don't even bother with Will or Con. You don't really need it on anything, for that matter.

The reality is that attacking at long range doesn't make you untouchable. Enemies often will get close and I'd rather not die in one hit.

[dainbramage]

The reality is that attacking at long range doesn't make you untouchable. Enemies often will get close and I'd rather not die in one hit.

 

Warriors can easily have 300+ hp without touching con. Even on tanks I don't add any points.

[Qun00]

Warriors can easily have 300+ hp without touching con. Even on tanks I don't add any points.

All that from enchanted gear? I don't believe you.

[dainbramage]

All that from enchanted gear? I don't believe you.

 

Warriors have 115hp at level 1, +6 per level. +2 con from fade and you've 263hp at level 25 doing literally nothing. Dwarves get an extra +10. Berserker and reaver give +10 and +5hp respectively while naked. Then as far as equipment...

 

Blood dragon plate +50

Lifegiver +50

HoH/Andruil's/KttC +10 each

Warden Commander +10

[Qis]

For warriors there isn't any real benefit to strength once you can wear tier 7 heavy armor (38 iirc?). After that point dex gives the same attack and damage, but also defence.

Though archer warriors can make excellent tanks as you say. Taunt and scattershot draw aggro well, high defence from dex and defensive fire, and suppressing fire is a nice debuff (especially when applied by scattershot, -15 attack to every enemy)

 

I just like to see the numbers look equally

 

It is because for me, i try make it like real archery, you need strength to draw the bow to max, and it must be equal with your perception and agility as well, so as a warrior archer, she's a strong one to do the job. Rogue archer is not so strong, but she know where to shoot effectively

 

But of course if talk about gameplay only, str point can be just enough to wear the armor you want

[Qun00]

The movies make it look easy, but I struggled to pull the bow's string all the way when I tried.

It does take some strength.

[straykat]

The reality is that attacking at long range doesn't make you untouchable. Enemies often will get close and I'd rather not die in one hit.

 

You get health, mana, and stam every level. It doesn't make a big difference. Someone's done the math, but I don't want to really dig it up atm (sorry).

[capn233]

I didn't play archer too much, but I went Cunning (which was really more like mostly cunning and some dex), and stacked a couple Songs of Courage.

[Qis]

The movies make it look easy, but I struggled to pull the bow's string all the way when I tried.

It does take some strength.

 

Yeah, a real medieval war bow could be as strong as 120 pound to pull.

 

Average bows are around 75-100 pounds and these are already powerful bows

[Qun00]

I think you've got some different games mixed up. Cunning in origins directly influences your damage if you have lethality (so only rogues need apply for cunning builds). Cunning also boosts ap and some rogue talents (e.g. Song of courage or tainted blade), but doesn't directly boost crits.

Now, the reason there's no consensus is that one build isn't directly better than the other. Cunning does more damage and has more utility with traps and party buffs; dex has better attack and defence. If all you want is damage output (and you can get your attack satisfactory) then cunning well be better.

Awakening is a completely different beast because of the accuracy talent. That makes dex way better than cun in all cases

Of course that the two builds have different strengths and weaknesses, but people can't seem to agree on what those actually are and that gives me a huge headache.

One guy says that cunning archers easily deal the most damage. Then the next guy says that not focusing on dex leaves you with a weak attack. Then the next guy says the opposite.

The one thing people don't question is that a cunning build results in low defense, but 34 dex already is enough for your character not to be too squishy... right?

[Elhanan]

I prefer DEX and high STR to wear Heavy or Massive armors. There is a special chest piece and set at Wades that seems to make it to the inventory of most of my Rogue Archers.

Here is a link to an older thread that may be of aid:

http://forum.bioware...a-rogue-archer/

[capn233]

One guy says that cunning archers easily deal the most damage. Then the next guy says that not focusing on dex leaves you with a weak attack. Then the next guy says the opposite.

The one thing people don't question is that a cunning build results in low defense, but 34 dex already is enough for your character not to be too squishy... right?

 

There are a variety of methods to buff attack with a cunning build.  If you went purely on attributes, sure cunning only adds AP (not attack or damage), but that doesn't consider talents or buffs from gear.

 

Considering talents available:

 

Lethality - now cunning gives the same amount of damage as dex, purely from attribute points.

 

Song of Courage - now cunning gives you more bonus to damage, attack and crit chance.  You can also stack npc SoC on top of yours.

 

Aim - +10 attack, double (sort of) crit chance, also gives bonus damage and AP

 

Master Archer - add another +5 attack as well as more damage and AP from Aim

 

Dueling - +10 attack (potentially +10 defense with Keen Defense).

 

Hit rate isn't a problem mid to late game.  Early game it will partly depend on the ratio you invest in dex to cunning if you wanted to compare hit rate to a character going pure dex.

[Qun00]

But is cunning worth putting most points into, or should I leave it at 30 and dump the rest on dexterity?

[capn233]

I would rather go 30 in dex and more into cunning than the opposite.  There isn't a one-size fits all answer since it depends on party, composition, style.

[Qun00]

What is "AP", by the way?

[capn233]

Armor penetration.  Target armor is a flat damage reduction to physical attacks, and armor penetration directly counters it.  If you have more AP than the enemy has armor, you don't get bonus damage, it is just as if the target has no armor.

 

Cunning contribution to AP directly is = (Cunning -10) / 7

[A-T-R-A]

A lot of great info in this thread.  Thank you for all that have commented.  I'm about 1/2 way through a 2h Warrior nightmare run on PS3, it was a tough start, like playing a turn based combat game, but much better now.

 

I was going to do a Rogue Archer nightmare run next, so this was very informative for me.