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#1
Filament

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I just played The Swapper. Two years late, I know.



I think it does a better job in a few hours exploring an alien form of consciousness than anything ME did with the reapers (lol) or geth (though this was a good effort before the whole Pinocchio aspect came along), much less the other aliens, who, despite having features that one might expect to rightly engender vastly different mindsets on account of thousand year versus thirty year lifespans, psychic powers, etc, are all characterized fundamentally as humans with rubber foreheads/tentacles/etc. and maybe a personality quirk to represent their race. It's no wonder people here want to bang everything, since everything is really just a thinly disguised person.

So will ME:A have more alien aliens?
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#2
SlottsMachine

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Yeah. Plus, I don't see why it has to be either or, you can have more realistic aliens while also having 'humans in disguise' aliens. I think it would be cool if Mass Effect had some aliens similar to the Watchers. 


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#3
Jeremiah12LGeek

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xr3sc.jpgxr3uy.jpg

 

Hang on, I'm still working out the differences.


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#4
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I'm into what Bioware is doing currently- though I'd like to also play as alien not only see NPC aliens- so I'd prefer that they just kept doing what they have this far.


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#5
Beerfish

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If one of the races we encounter is even more bird of prey like than the Turians, and if that race gets sick due to human contact would that be an 'Ill Eagle alien'?


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#6
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If one of the races we encounter is even more bird of prey like than the Turians, and if that race gets sick due to human contact would that be an 'Ill Eagle alien'?


I dunno, but that pun is a sosunsing.

82R3Nn6.gif
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#7
Xen

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xr3sc.jpgxr3uy.jpg

 

Hang on, I'm still working out the differences.

If an alien doesn't have legs, arms and opposable thumbs, or speaks in first person plural all the time it's a real alien because reasons.

Not to mention this doesn't even get into the seperate distinction between normal and illegal aliens, who just wanna take our jobs and welfare
trump-lizard.jpg
 


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#8
Kabooooom

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I just played The Swapper. Two years late, I know.

https://www.youtube....h?v=ShPR4ABt0mk

I think it does a better job in a few hours exploring an alien form of consciousness than anything ME did with the reapers (lol) or geth (though this was a good effort before the whole Pinocchio aspect came along), much less the other aliens, who, despite having features that one might expect to rightly engender vastly different mindsets on account of thousand year versus thirty year lifespans, psychic powers, etc, are all characterized fundamentally as humans with rubber foreheads/tentacles/etc. and maybe a personality quirk to represent their race. It's no wonder people here want to bang everything, since everything is really just a thinly disguised person.

So will ME:A have more alien aliens?

It is interesting to me that you mention the Geth. I agree, before ME3, the Geth (as Legion describes them) are the most alien form of consciousness that I have ever seen in sci-fi. And I watch a lot of sci-fi. And as a neurologist, I was fascinated by the description of their hive-mind, and I thought a lot about whether a consciousness like the Geth (many bodies, many individual sentient awarenesses but each having the perception of a single gestalt sapient mind) would be possible with what we currently understand about neurocomputation and the neural correlates of consciousness. My opinion is that surprisingly...such a synthetic mind might actually be possible.

Which made them all the more interesting to me. They were my favorite alien "species" of Mass Effect, by far. And then ME3 rolled around and Legion went 180, and abandoned everything that made the Geth unique.

But the existence of the ME2 Geth makes me hopeful that Bioware can create a truly alien experience for Andromeda.

PS: Who wrote Legion's dialogue for Mass Effect 2? I'm curious.
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#9
ABASOVA

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It is interesting to me that you mention the Geth. I agree, before ME3, the Geth (as Legion describes them) are the most alien form of consciousness that I have ever seen in sci-fi. And I watch a lot of sci-fi. And as a neurologist, I was fascinated by the description of their hive-mind, and I thought a lot about whether a consciousness like the Geth (many bodies, many individual sentient awarenesses but each having the perception of a single gestalt sapient mind) would be possible with what we currently understand about neurocomputation and the neural correlates of consciousness. My opinion is that surprisingly...such a synthetic mind might actually be possible.

Which made them all the more interesting to me. They were my favorite alien "species" of Mass Effect, by far. And then ME3 rolled around and Legion went 180, and abandoned everything that made the Geth unique.

But the existence of the ME2 Geth makes me hopeful that Bioware can create a truly alien experience for Andromeda.

PS: Who wrote Legion's dialogue for Mass Effect 2? I'm curious.

Chris L'Etoile!

 

He left BioWare because he was being forced to write a universe that he felt uncomfortable with. And he just hated being told to act against his own creativity. He is for the more alien aspects.

 

Other things he wrote/did:

 

• Developed and maintained the technical background of the Mass Effect IP. Served as go-to person for continuity and "technobabble" rationalization across multiple teams and titles.

Mass Effect 2
• Story planning and dialogue: party character Thane Krios
• Story planning and dialogue: party character Legion
• Story planning and dialogue: location Citadel Zakera Ward 
• Dialogue: character EDI
• Led multidisciplinary teams designing the Recruitment and Loyalty mission levels for Thane Krios and Legion.
• Developed mission level concepts and wrote first draft dialogue for party members Miranda Lawson, Tali’Zorah vas Neema, and Jacob Taylor.

Mass Effect: Bring Down the Sky (DLC)
• Dialogue: Simon Atwell
• PC Tutorial Codex entries

Mass Effect 1
• Story planning and dialogue: planet Noveria
• Story planning and dialogue: planet Therum
• Story planning and dialogue: planet Caleston (cut from final game; ~50k words of dialogue)
• Dialogue: Gunnery Chief Ashley Williams
• Wrote all in-game Codex entries.
• Rewrote procedural planet descriptions and edited Galaxy Map layout on personal initiative to improve quality and scientific accuracy.
• Produced lore-related marketing materials for BioWare's website and game news network sites.

Dragon Age: Origins
• Wrote the first draft of the Human Noble Origin.

 

 

Also:

 

tumblr_nc4833JaRd1ttej8uo5_250.gif


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#10
Kabooooom

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Chris L'Etoile!

He left BioWare because he was being forced to write a universe that he felt uncomfortable with. And he just hated being told to act against his own creativity. He is for the more alien aspects.


I am now in love with this human being. Do you know what he is writing for now? The guy is brilliant.

#11
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#12
ABASOVA

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I am now in love with this human being. Do you know what he is writing for now? The guy is brilliant.

He is unemployed as of now to my knowledge (but freelancing probably). I wanted him to write for ME:A, but I think he had major issues with a particular individual, so it ain't happening.



#13
CrimsonN7

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If one of the races we encounter is even more bird of prey like than the Turians, and if that race gets sick due to human contact would that be an 'Ill Eagle alien'?

 


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#14
Spectr61

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It is interesting to me that you mention the Geth. I agree, before ME3, the Geth (as Legion describes them) are the most alien form of consciousness that I have ever seen in sci-fi. And I watch a lot of sci-fi. And as a neurologist, I was fascinated by the description of their hive-mind, and I thought a lot about whether a consciousness like the Geth (many bodies, many individual sentient awarenesses but each having the perception of a single gestalt sapient mind) would be possible with what we currently understand about neurocomputation and the neural correlates of consciousness. My opinion is that surprisingly...such a synthetic mind might actually be possible.
Which made them all the more interesting to me. They were my favorite alien "species" of Mass Effect, by far. And then ME3 rolled around and Legion went 180, and abandoned everything that made the Geth unique.
But the existence of the ME2 Geth makes me hopeful that Bioware can create a truly alien experience for Andromeda.
PS: Who wrote Legion's dialogue for Mass Effect 2? I'm curious.

Good question, I too like to know. Same with most of Thane's.

Agree with the sentience and consciousness aspects of the Geth. A very promising start, disappointing evolution over the game however.

I would enjoy a take on distributed sentience, especially if non conscious.

Peter Watts modeled an alien antagonist like this in his excellent book "Blindsight". Modelled on the ideas of T. Metzinger (Being No One) and D.M. Wenger (The illusion of Consciousness).

It would be interesting and enjoyable to have a smart take on these concepts.

Edit (sp)
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#15
The Hierophant

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#16
The Real Pearl #2

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Beautiful music. The aliens are anything but alien...These are aliens:

Picture-6.JPG

 also this film really shows the depth of human/alien contact:


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#17
Eryri

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It is interesting to me that you mention the Geth. I agree, before ME3, the Geth (as Legion describes them) are the most alien form of consciousness that I have ever seen in sci-fi. And I watch a lot of sci-fi. And as a neurologist, I was fascinated by the description of their hive-mind, and I thought a lot about whether a consciousness like the Geth (many bodies, many individual sentient awarenesses but each having the perception of a single gestalt sapient mind) would be possible with what we currently understand about neurocomputation and the neural correlates of consciousness. My opinion is that surprisingly...such a synthetic mind might actually be possible.
Which made them all the more interesting to me. They were my favorite alien "species" of Mass Effect, by far. And then ME3 rolled around and Legion went 180, and abandoned everything that made the Geth unique.

Agreed. I found those conversations with Legion to be one of the most memorable parts of ME2. Their unceremonious 'Pinocchification' in the following game was disappointing.
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#18
The Real Pearl #2

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It is interesting to me that you mention the Geth. I agree, before ME3, the Geth (as Legion describes them) are the most alien form of consciousness that I have ever seen in sci-fi. And I watch a lot of sci-fi. And as a neurologist, I was fascinated by the description of their hive-mind, and I thought a lot about whether a consciousness like the Geth (many bodies, many individual sentient awarenesses but each having the perception of a single gestalt sapient mind) would be possible with what we currently understand about neurocomputation and the neural correlates of consciousness. My opinion is that surprisingly...such a synthetic mind might actually be possible.

Which made them all the more interesting to me. They were my favorite alien "species" of Mass Effect, by far. And then ME3 rolled around and Legion went 180, and abandoned everything that made the Geth unique.

But the existence of the ME2 Geth makes me hopeful that Bioware can create a truly alien experience for Andromeda.

PS: Who wrote Legion's dialogue for Mass Effect 2? I'm curious.

You described every reason why i love the geth, You deserve a beer



#19
Jaquio

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He is unemployed as of now to my knowledge (but freelancing probably). I wanted him to write for ME:A, but I think he had major issues with a particular individual, so it ain't happening.

 

Last AAA work I heard was that he was doing level design for Elder Scrolls Online (pre launch) but it wasn't listed for NDA reasons until he was done with his work.  I think he's doing freelance stuff with mobile developers at the moment.

 

I got into his stuff playing Asheron's Call.

 

 

Agreed. I found those conversations with Legion to be one of the most memorable parts of ME2. Their unceremonious 'Pinocchification' in the following game was disappointing.

 

Interestingly enough, in some of Chris's notorious complaints after he left Bioware, he spoke of dissatisfaction with bosses demanding "I'm a real boy" storylines for Legion that he didn't feel comfortable with.  I think he specifically used Pinocchio in his complaints.  I'd pull it up but this isn't really the appropriate place for that sort of thing.

 

 

 

As a general rule for ME - if the character sounds mature but flawed, nuanced and has relatable problems, it's probably L'Etoile.  As an example, Ashley Williams gets derided for being the "space racist" but she served an important narrative function to help flesh out the mistrust of humans and other aliens while providing backstory for the human-turian wars.


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#20
Han Shot First

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Interestingly enough, in some of Chris's notorious complaints after he left Bioware, he spoke of dissatisfaction with bosses demanding "I'm a real boy" storylines for Legion that he didn't feel comfortable with.  I think he specifically used Pinocchio in his complaints.  I'd pull it up but this isn't really the appropriate place for that sort of thing.

 

 

I always got the impression that the complaints about 'higher paid' dictating that he humanize Legion, against his wishes, were thinly veiled references to Mac.

 

Mac's great with characters, but I think sometimes his comic background shines through a little too strongly. He needs a more hard Sci Fi guy or gal to counterbalance his worst tendencies.



#21
ABASOVA

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Last AAA work I heard was that he was doing level design for Elder Scrolls Online (pre launch) but it wasn't listed for NDA reasons until he was done with his work.  I think he's doing freelance stuff with mobile developers at the moment.

 

I got into his stuff playing Asheron's Call.

 

 

 

Interestingly enough, in some of Chris's notorious complaints after he left Bioware, he spoke of dissatisfaction with bosses demanding "I'm a real boy" storylines for Legion that he didn't feel comfortable with.  I think he specifically used Pinocchio in his complaints.  I'd pull it up but this isn't really the appropriate place for that sort of thing.

 

 

 

As a general rule for ME - if the character sounds mature but flawed, nuanced and has relatable problems, it's probably L'Etoile.  As an example, Ashley Williams gets derided for being the "space racist" but she served an important narrative function to help flesh out the mistrust of humans and other aliens while providing backstory for the human-turian wars.

I have been reading Shamus Young's retrospective (damn good IMO) on the ME trilogy (still a w.i.p and he updates weekly). He spoke about Ashley's "racism" and i'll long quote Mr. Young here:

 

From his blog:

 

Spoiler

 

Through elevator conversations in ME1, I always perceived Ashley as very kind, understanding and caring to Tali, not a horrible racist.

 

If you have spare time and are sick of the romance threads, give his stuff a read. 

http://www.shamusyou...edtale/?p=27792


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#22
ABASOVA

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I always got the impression that the complaints about 'higher paid' dictating that he humanize Legion, against his wishes, were thinly veiled references to Mac.

 

Mac's great with characters, but I think sometimes his comic background shines through a little too strongly. He needs a more hard Sci Fi guy or gal to counterbalance his worst tendencies.

Have you read any of his comics btw? The Foundation series perhaps? Sometimes I don't feel like i'm in the MEU anymore when I read them.



#23
Jaquio

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I always got the impression that the complaints about 'higher paid' dictating that he humanize Legion, against his wishes, were thinly veiled references to Mac.

 

Mac's great with characters, but I think sometimes his comic background shines through a little too strongly. He needs a more hard Sci Fi guy or gal to counterbalance his worst tendencies.

 

I don't think so, because at the time Drew was lead so Mac didn't necessarily outrank Chris in the writing room.  Based on other words of his I've read, I'm about 95% sure "higher paid" was Casey.

 

But I'm not positive, so your opinion is valid.



#24
Filament

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Peter Watts modeled an alien antagonist like this in his excellent book "Blindsight". Modelled on the ideas of T. Messenger (Being No One) and D.M. Wenger (The illusion of Consciousness).

It would be interesting and enjoyable to have a smart take on these concepts.

Edit (sp)


Now that you mention it, the Watchers and The Swapper in general may also be influenced by Metzinger's work.

Here is a great take on the ending that I found on youtube (who says youtube comments are all crap?)

Spoiler


Though the question of the self is a pretty vast philosophical topic, there could be a lot of inspirations and interpretations. In any case, I like what they did with it a lot.
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#25
Vortex13

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Good question, I too like to know. Same with most of Thane's.

Agree with the sentience and consciousness aspects of the Geth. A very promising start, disappointing evolution over the game however.

I would enjoy a take on distributed sentience, especially if non conscious.

Peter Watts modeled an alien antagonist like this in his excellent book "Blindsight". Modelled on the ideas of T. Messenger (Being No One) and D.M. Wenger (The illusion of Consciousness).

It would be interesting and enjoyable to have a smart take on these concepts.

Edit (sp)

 

 

A fellow fan of the Scramblers I see. Blindsight was an excellent science fiction exploration of the concepts of intelligences vs. consciousness as well as being one of the few narratives I've seen (though I will admit to not having a huge library of experience) to depict an 'alien' intelligence without resorting to the whole "Beyond our comprehension" copout either:

 

Spoiler

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