21 réponses à ce sujet

[Wavebend]

Update 7/24/2016: Necro'ing this thread.

 

6 months ago, I started working on a small project that aimed to improve combat mechanics on PC.

 

Putting all team tactics aside, the core gameplay as an Action RPG is lacking. Here are some features I'd like to implement:

• Reduce the influence of the auto-target system.
• Improve overall mobility, such as giving the option to dodge attacks.
• Make combat slower. This will make combat more in line with similar combat systems from other Action RPGs.

While I had done some work 6 months ago, some of that work will not be reused for this new mod.

January 2016 modding stuff

 

(Showcase of most (?) stuff )

 

(Showcase of alternative warrior basic attack + alternative shield wall movement (1:30) + new camera work )

[animedreamer]

I think what you're trying to do is a very nice idea, but it's one thing to watch changes in a video and another to actually experience them. One thing I will note from watching is the evade mechanic, the original problem with it for me was how nonsensical it was, no one can leap like that in the midst of a fight and it be effective, namely because you jumping so far away defeats the entire purpose of being a melee combatant if you are one, and it looks super ridiculous, as you're not a cat or tiger. Lastly it really is next to impossible to tell if you're going to avoid getting hit by a melee attack half the time.

[Wavebend]

I think what you're trying to do is a very nice idea, and it's one thing to watch changes in a video and another to actually experience them. One thing I will note from watching is the evade mechanic, the original problem with it for me was how nonsensical it was, no one can leap like that in the midst of a fight nand it be effective, namely because you're jumping so far away it defeats the entire purpose of being a melee combatant if you are one, and it looks super ridiculous, as you're not a cat or tiger, and lastly how it really is next to impossible to tell if you're going to avoid getting hit by a melee attack half the time.

 

I'll keep that in mind. Thanks for the feedback

[Wavebend]

I think what you're trying to do is a very nice idea, and it's one thing to watch changes in a video and another to actually experience them. One thing I will note from watching is the evade mechanic, the original problem with it for me was how nonsensical it was, no one can leap like that in the midst of a fight nand it be effective, namely because you're jumping so far away it defeats the entire purpose of being a melee combatant if you are one, and it looks super ridiculous, as you're not a cat or tiger, and lastly how it really is next to impossible to tell if you're going to avoid getting hit by a melee attack half the time.

 

Also, I'll be making several (balance) changes to this mod in the coming weeks.

 

For example, what you've mentioned is a good point. The primary reason why I've stuck to Evade is because it is much easier, modding-wise, to map the same ability across all classes than to make conditionals depending on the class, although I'll do that eventually because you have a point.

 

The "Magical Barrier" ability also needs to be tuned quite a bit. Its purpose is to replace what would essentially be a small dodge. In most popular action RPGs, such as The Witcher 3 or Bloodborne, you get a small side-step functionality with i-frames that allow you to evade damage. However, to preserve the tactical, positioning integrity for DA:I I couldn't find a good way to implement such a dodge (otherwise you'd have too much mobility and would be jumping all around the map, no good). Initial duration was 5 seconds but I'll probably drop it down to 1 with instant activation so it isn't as spammable.

 

Movement also needs tuning. Acceleration curves, directional modifiers. The gameplay still doesn't feel right, yet. The auto-facing combat camera is too stiff and gets glitchy when getting too close to enemies.

 

Basically a lot of stuff needs to be reworked.

 

For anyone interested, you can keep track of my progress here : http://forum.bioware...modding-worklog

 

This mod will be available for download in a few weeks on my mod homepage here : http://forum.bioware...dmakerdaitools/

 

All feedback appreciated.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

This looks promising ! I will be keeping an eye out.

[animedreamer]

I'll definitely be keeping a eye on this mod and good luck.

[Wavebend]

Won't try to make this thread last much longer, but just thought I'd share one last thing.

 

There are a LOT of unexplored ways to make combat much more enjoyable.

 

In this video I believe I've introduced one completely new mechanic, which was the ability to branch into a different state depending on how long you've been holding a button. For the reworked basic attack mechanic depicted in the video, a short LMB click would branch into a fast-paced basic attack mechanic, while a long LMB click would branch into a charged attack. Charge abilities that depend on keypress timing don't exist in the base game.

 

However, even today I'm still discovering more stuff that I could readily implement into the system. For instance, I found out that it's actually possible (and quite easy) to implement SHIFT modifiers. Therefore, instead of checking for how long you've been pressing a key, you could simply check if the SHIFT key button is down instead to trigger a different state of the same ability. For instance, your space bar could default on JUMP, but Shift+Space bar could default on Evade instead. Checking for keyboard inputs this way would also allow to activate more than one ability at the same time, as well, without interrupting/animation cancelling either active abilities.

 

Anyways, stay tuned.

[Navasha]

Nice work!   Not something I would probably use as it seems to make combat even more action oriented.     I would prefer the other route of tripling the games difficulty and allowing the player to actually issue orders to the companions that they would follow in tactical mode.  

[Tidus]

Nice, but, I prefer the free style mode of combat.

[Spectr61]

Wave, great work. As usual.

I would like to know who was in charge of designing the PC port for DAI.

[Draninus]

Excellent work! This looks amazing.

 

A mod like this might actually tempt me into playing this game again.

[animedreamer]

Excellent work! This looks amazing.

 

A mod like this might actually tempt me into playing this game again.

I actually dread playing this game again... that is so sad. I actually dont want to play a game i spent extra money on to get the deluxe version of.

[Wavebend]

I actually dread playing this game again... that is so sad. I actually dont want to play a game i spent extra money on to get the deluxe version of.

 

What's even sadder is to see how much better the combat could've potentially been. If only they had spent more time polishing / not rushing the game to get their GOTY2014 awards...

[Knight of Dane]

Did you consider using the warrior "Combat Roll" instead of evade for the combat-jumping?

[Wavebend]

Did you consider using the warrior "Combat Roll" instead of evade for the combat-jumping?

 

Yes.

 

Necro'ing this thread from 6 months ago, I have plans to continue work on this. Things will be slow, however.

[PapaCharlie9]

Yes.
 
Necro'ing this thread from 6 months ago, I have plans to continue work on this. Things will be slow, however.

Just catching up on this.

Even for a WIP, it's great. Keep up the good work!

The movement and camera adjustments alone would make this a top downloaded mod. I would therefore suggest making two download files, "lore friendly" which is just the camera, movement, and short/long attack stuff, and "the works" which would include the evasion, protection and barrier stuff, or anything else you come up with that is lore-breaking.

Alternatively, for the "lore friendly" version, you could enable the evasion stuff only when the character gets to a certain level, presumably when they would have enough points to buy a similar evasion skill. Or even better if you cna programmaticaly detect if they have an evasion skill in their build.

I do agree with other commenters that if you can make the conditional code to use Combat Roll for warriors and Fade Step for mages, and reserve Evade for Rogues, that would be awesome.

[PapaCharlie9]

Also, you'll probably get more comments if you cross-post a link to this thread in the Combat forum:

https://forum.biowar...y-and-gameplay/

[Wavebend]

Just catching up on this.

Even for a WIP, it's great. Keep up the good work!

The movement and camera adjustments alone would make this a top downloaded mod. I would therefore suggest making two download files, "lore friendly" which is just the camera, movement, and short/long attack stuff, and "the works" which would include the evasion, protection and barrier stuff, or anything else you come up with that is lore-breaking.

Alternatively, for the "lore friendly" version, you could enable the evasion stuff only when the character gets to a certain level, presumably when they would have enough points to buy a similar evasion skill. Or even better if you cna programmaticaly detect if they have an evasion skill in their build.

I do agree with other commenters that if you can make the conditional code to use Combat Roll for warriors and Fade Step for mages, and reserve Evade for Rogues, that would be awesome.

 

I haven't worked on this mod for 6 months, but I have new ideas and am not planning to reuse what has been shown (most of) in the showcase video.

 

I don't plan to give 'Evade' to all classes (not in its original form, at least). Evade is a very powerful tool to change momentum / gain distance, and there's a reason you need to spend a slot for it in the base game. Same for 'Fade Step' and 'Combat Roll'.

 

I also dislike the auto-attack / auto-target feature in an Action RPG. It is fine for abilities, but conflicts with the idea of strafing left and right while facing the camera. I will be changing basic auto-attack moves (like I did for the archer) to cooler stuff, maybe AOE attacks that only extend beyond the facing direction of the character.

 

Finally, movement isn't too slow, it's actually way too fast. I have plans to slow down combat quite a bit. After having spent some time in other games with a similar combat system, it certainly isn't 'right' to have to dodge an attack every half a second (and then be overwhelmed with undodgeable attacks). Mobility therefore isn't the root of the problem.

 

Hopefully, those 3 changes will make combat more enjoyable. If not, then I'll stop pursuing this idea entirely.

 

As for releasing mods separately, possibly. I want to release an immersive cam mod that is more suitable for the action-y gameplay (less "bird eye" perspective), and that will be released on its own. Then for everything else I'll have to see if I run into compatibility issues. (What I aim to deliver is a different gameplay experience that requires those gameplay elements to work together as a package.)

 

The modding toolchain that I use (mostly the base code of DAITools that has been open-sourced by WarrantyVoider of ME3, with added functionality that I coded on my own) still isn't powerful enough to quickly make those changes. I'm too lazy to code a way to rebuild EBX files entirely, so I have to chain several EBX files together to get the effect I look for. The process is a real pain in the ass and is slow as heck, but the results seem worth it to my eyes.

 

More updates, soon..ish.

[PapaCharlie9]

As for releasing mods separately, possibly. I want to release an immersive cam mod that is more suitable for the action-y gameplay (less "bird eye" perspective), and that will be released on its own. Then for everything else I'll have to see if I run into compatibility issues. (What I aim to deliver is a different gameplay experience that requires those gameplay elements to work together as a package.)

Just a clarification: you don't have to post a separate nexus mod for each. You could put them altogether in one mod post and have multiple different download files for users to select from. That's how most DAI mods are done.

There are advantages/disadvantages to having separate nexus posts that you'll have to consider. If you expect the suite to be used together, it's best to have them grouped under a single post, so all of the Downloads, Endorsements and Votes accrue to the same suite. Otherwise you split your own vote against yourself. The disadvantage is that someone who only wants one item in the suite has to figure out that it's part of that suite. So stats vs. discoverability, in a nutshell. Although stats influence discoverability by way of the Top Downloads list.

[Chiramu]

Looks great , the movement at present is very sluggish so I will probably, most definitely download you mod when it's done ^^.

[Wavebend]

Looks great , the movement at present is very sluggish so I will probably, most definitely download you mod when it's done ^^.

 

Thanks.

 

I cannot work on this mod for a few weeks. My main hard drive which contained all my work + my custom toolchain died in a freak accident (hardware failure), and I don't have the budget to send it to a data recovery center. I had no backup.

 

My last hope is for the DAI Tools folks to cooperate so I can either grab a copy of their code or start collaborating with them.. it's a sad situation. (as I'm definitely not investing 300hrs+ of coding a new toolchain)

[PapaCharlie9]

Thanks.
 
I cannot work on this mod for a few weeks. My main hard drive which contained all my work + my custom toolchain died in a freak accident (hardware failure), and I don't have the budget to send it to a data recovery center. I had no backup.
 
My last hope is for the DAI Tools folks to cooperate so I can either grab a copy of their code or start collaborating with them.. it's a sad situation. (as I'm definitely not investing 300hrs+ of coding a new toolchain)

Ugh! That's tragic.

Please, next time, Github accounts are free. Sync your code up there. Unless it's super secret, since free Github accounts are visible to everyone.