Aller au contenu

Photo

Will Andromeda be a reaction to ME3's most negative feedback even 4 years later?


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
42 réponses à ce sujet

#26
Linkenski

Linkenski
  • Members
  • 3 451 messages

It seems clear to me that ending was pretty intentional. Now maybe with more time peer review wouldn't have been bypassed but equally there seems to have been a jaded approach which led to a let's burn down the universe so I wouldn't put anything past anyone.

I do think Mac and especially Casey got too egotistical about it and that's part of the issue but have you considered that perhaps they locked out peer review because they had no time to evaluate? Usually, peer-reviewing involves iterating on the script, re-recordings of VO, re-scripting of animations etc. and it says clearly in Keighley's Final Hours docu that "they made revisions right up until the end of production". They had to fart something out.

 

Casey is seeing a bigger picture and is probably more in the loop about what the high higher ups' demands are at the time and maybe they simply had to crunch to develop the final parts of production and he went with the most possible and ambitious seeming idea with too little time to think, and Mac probably didn't understand it enough either, so we got a bunch of ****. Recently I've been playing the games again after a long hiatus and it's clearer to me now that Mac isn't really a bad writer per se. He was unproven as the sole lead and fumbled a lot but ME3 still turned out to be a more mature depiction in a lot of ways, and it's hard to say it's all Mac's or Casey's fault when previously they had shown more competence. Casey was arguably misguided a lot of the way. He also made a number out of Shepard's death in ME2 pre-release as if it was a mystery whether he would be the protagonist or not.

 

Sure, if Drew had been on board it would've probably had a safer landing, but ultimately with where I currently stand, I don't see ME3's ending fiasco as a result of pure idiocy, but rather strictly developmental issues hampering creativity and time-constraints bringing forth stupidity in the writing at the most important moment of the story-making. Don't forget endings are some of the hardest parts to write, let alone at the end of a trilogy... which makes it all the more damning they effed it up so completely, I know.

 

 

I've been playing since day 1, put it away for a while, recently started a new game. Feels a lot easier now and there are lots of little changes that seem to add up. Maybe its becoz I'm playing as an F.E.M?

Exalted plains is still weird though.

I don't know what it is, but Exalted Plains has kind of a nausea-effect on me. I think it's the BGM or something. It's really weird.

 

 

BioWare should make a plan where they want to take the series to. Creating stuff as they go won't work. Idk how they thought the endings of ME3 were good idea. I like them but at the end I think they effectively killed the Milky Way as a setting for future installment*. So I hope they learned this lection, not everything should be about teh Chosen one saving the world/galaxy with no plan beforehand.

 

Also the writers and devs (or whatever) should coordinate their work, we read one thing in the codex and we see the same thing playing out differently in a cutscene. Also, many people don't like ME3 because of the ending not the other 99% of it, in my experience, so I guess that is about it. Make a longterm vision for ME BW. There always will be people who will hate stuff for the sake of hating. 

 

*We may visit it and see how our previous choices affect the galaxy but that is about it. 

That will never work with the way they make games, especially not now. I believe their decision to make things up as they go is due to the nature of game-development. Clearly much of ME3's story is written around the game-design limitations it has, and that's something that will constantly change along with game-industry's standards and the restraints caused by what technology they have to work with. It does not make sense to make a trilogy planned out in detail only to find out the second game can't be made because the plot dictates a gameplay-structure that's totally out of date or unpopular or demanding the game to shift in genre or something. You can see with ME1, 2 and 3 how they tried to cater to wider crowds. The desire to be more action-focused began already when they chose TPS in ME1 which was slowly becoming popular and finally cemented as the new hot thing when Gears landed. ME3 is really heavily written around its game-design, believe me. A lot of people's gripes with Cerberus's role is because of design-limitations but the symptom of it is in the plot and storytelling so that's what people blame first.


  • Silvery et ZipZap2000 aiment ceci

#27
prosthetic soul

prosthetic soul
  • Members
  • 2 064 messages

To address the topic's question.

 

...Yes, if Bioware is smart they'll do exactly that.  Only way to get out of a hole that deep is by scraping off the walls to fill up the ground you stand on. 



#28
ZipZap2000

ZipZap2000
  • Members
  • 5 224 messages

I don't care for whatever atmosphere they're going for to begin with.. the whole open world thing. Picking flowers and getting one liners from desperate peasants who can't feed themselves. I've always liked their urban stuff. At least it's funny. Whether it's Denerim or Orzammar or even DA2.


DAO was a good game but going back to Denerim is dull as ever. After Val Royeaux with Cole at least anyway. Schematics weapon stores, Battle Nugs, Arrows with notes on them. Nuns getting punched, duels and Assassins luring you in to politely make threats.....why aren't I in Val Royeaux right now?

Screw this I'm off to upload some pics of my drunk Inquisitor grinning at Iron Bull. Then I'm gonna do Josies loyalty mission.

Taarsidath-an Halsaam!
  • Silvery et blahblahblah aiment ceci

#29
straykat

straykat
  • Members
  • 9 196 messages

DAO was a good game but going back to Denerim is dull as ever. After Val Royeaux with Cole at least anyway. Schematics weapon stores, Battle Nugs, Arrows with notes on them. Nuns getting punched, duels and Assassins luring you in to politely make threats.....why aren't I in Val Royeaux right now?

Screw this I'm off to upload some pics of my drunk Inquisitor grinning at Iron Bull. Then I'm gonna do Josies loyalty mission.

Taarsidath-an Halsaam!

 

Val Royeuax sucks.

 

I understand DAO is dated, but it lives up to it's current time better than Val Royeaux does here. They skimped on interesting urban stuff. They CAN do it... they just don't do enough. While DA2 is practically that way everywhere.

 

DA2 is kinda a reverse of DAI.. where the wilderness sucks instead.

 

As for codexes, I wish I could be as easily amused.


  • 9TailsFox aime ceci

#30
Linkenski

Linkenski
  • Members
  • 3 451 messages

Val Royeaux sucks so much I'm still baffled by it. They could at least've made some kind of attraction there, like monuments your companions could comment on or something. I desperately needed some hub or city (not as big as Kirkwall, duh) where I could explore something that had a lot of conversation-based content -- a thing I feel has been missing lately in Bioware's games. Where are all the conversation-driven quests? Ioved those in all their games up until ME2. When you look at all the craving for Bethesda-like games which has a lot of those moments even still, you gotta wonder why Bioware is so hesitant to bring that stuff back.

 

Also, I'm sure if you modded ME3 to segregate a lot of Shepard's autodialogue into more dialogue wheels (just the simple leftmost vs rightmost choice) the game would already go from 8/10 to 9/10 for me. I absolutely hated the Citadel content in ME3 but I think I'm deceiving my own thoughts by blaming the writing when really, I probably didn't care because it all happens automatically as soon as you just happen to come across it. Either it's Shepard overhearing it or you talk to someone out of curiositiy and it goes on autopilot and you accept the quest not having really engaged yourself in it versus hearing it out by your own curiosity (or saying "goodbye" if uninterested), same with completing the objective.

 

I really hope ME:A has some opportunities like plenty of ME1's side-missions where you arrive at the quest objective to either take down some hostiles or hear them out and resolve it all through dialogue. That stuff is powerful to me as a game-experience and it's such a failure to skimp on it.


  • straykat aime ceci

#31
ZipZap2000

ZipZap2000
  • Members
  • 5 224 messages

Val Royeuax sucks.

I understand DAO is dated, but it lives up to it's current time better than Val Royeaux does here. They skimped on interesting urban stuff. They CAN do it... they just don't do enough. While DA2 is practically that way everywhere.

DA2 is kinda a reverse of DAI.. where the wilderness sucks instead.

As for codexes, I wish I could be as easily amused.


Well you are on the BSN so id say easily amused is covered. :P
  • straykat aime ceci

#32
AlanC9

AlanC9
  • Members
  • 35 593 messages

Also, I'm sure if you modded ME3 to segregate a lot of Shepard's autodialogue into more dialogue wheels (just the simple leftmost vs rightmost choice) the game would already go from 8/10 to 9/10 for me.


You mean more ME1-style fake wheels where Shepard says the same thing no matter what you pick, or are you talking about adding more lines somehow?

#33
Steelcan

Steelcan
  • Members
  • 23 280 messages

The Milky Way is a lost cause, the RGB endings killed every potential sequel in that setting.

not even slightly, BioWare just doesn't have the ability or courage to do so


  • prosthetic soul aime ceci

#34
straykat

straykat
  • Members
  • 9 196 messages

Well you are on the BSN so id say easily amused is covered. :P

 

To be fair, I left for awhile..

 

But I have no excuse really. ;)


  • ZipZap2000 aime ceci

#35
shodiswe

shodiswe
  • Members
  • 4 999 messages

I just hope they create a new great game and perhaps a Trilogy with more great stuff to follow. Getting dugg down by old "negative" baggage is pretty much suicide.  You take the good and do away with the bad. They had a lot of good in the trilogy. Get inspired by what worked and what people liked when crafting new worlds and stories but try something new aswell and don't make it a carbon copy.

 

I think Andromeda can be a good place for them to Reboot now that that's the path they have choosen. Still, it's up to them to make it great, it will take hard work and inspiration.



#36
Navasha

Navasha
  • Members
  • 3 724 messages

Well, every game is going to be influence by the reaction to the past.    That is part of the whole learning process.    What I hope is that it isn't an OVER-reaction.    That is where things really start to go downhill.  

 

"Combat in DA:O is too slow!" =  BAM!  DA2 combat is hyper intensified with people jumping, teleporting, and ice-skating all around, daggers causing bodies to explode, etc.   

 

A simple 40% boost to the combat speed in DA:O from a mod makes it perfect.   No one asked for it to be turned into an anime cartoon. 

 

That is my fear with ME:A.   That they take too many steps in the wrong direction because they think that's what the audience wants.   Tweaks are usually far better than 180 degree course corrections. 



#37
mickey111

mickey111
  • Members
  • 1 366 messages

I feel like ME3 gets more than it's fair share of hate. it was ME2 that sealed the trilogies fate when it went utterly off the rails of a perfectly good first act, and the whole trilogy was damaged for it. I'll just say this: imagine the crowds booing lucas if luke and vader never met in ESB before a dying vader informs luke that he only threw the emporor down the pit because he was his father. that is like what happened at the ME3 ending. Catalyst wasn't a terrible idea, he just was absent from 99% of the entire trilogy.



#38
wright1978

wright1978
  • Members
  • 8 112 messages

I feel like ME3 gets more than it's fair share of hate. it was ME2 that sealed the trilogies fate when it went utterly off the rails of a perfectly good first act, and the whole trilogy was damaged for it. I'll just say this: imagine the crowds booing lucas if luke and vader never met in ESB before a dying vader informs luke that he only threw the emporor down the pit because he was his father. that is like what happened at the ME3 ending. Catalyst wasn't a terrible idea, he just was absent from 99% of the entire trilogy.

 

 

Couldn't disagree more. Bratalyst was a terrible idea full stop, should never ever have existed.

There was no problem with ME2 being the lull before the storm either imo.



#39
ZipZap2000

ZipZap2000
  • Members
  • 5 224 messages

I feel like ME3 gets more than it's fair share of hate.




Catalyst wasn't a terrible idea, he just was absent from 99% of the entire trilogy.

Having a 7 year old suddenly appear and convince your protagonist to commit suicide at the end if a trilogy is never a good idea.

In fact I think it sits quite snuggly into the terrible idea box.

On your first point I agree its otherwise a very solid game, its very entertaining and it gets too much hate for the ending.

#40
rashie

rashie
  • Members
  • 909 messages

I know. :(

I'm used to it now but it took a while. Was just levelling my squiz up too about 30 secs ago.

Edit: Also is it me or have mages been buffed? I know they've replaced some enemy types and nerfed the revenant on Fallowmire. But it feels like running two mages makes you almost invincible now.

Turn on the walk softly and xp cut trials if you have the DLC, imo those makes a nightmare play-through harder than on launch, especially encounters with enemy mages, although there definitely seems to have been some nerfs since last year without the trials.



#41
ZipZap2000

ZipZap2000
  • Members
  • 5 224 messages

Turn on the walk softly and xp cut trials if you have the DLC, imo those makes a nightmare play-through harder than on launch, especially encounters with enemy mages, although there definitely seems to have been some nerfs since last year without the trials.


Nah no DLC it might be me remembering it being harder than it was.

#42
Bizantura

Bizantura
  • Members
  • 986 messages

I wander if the devs really care all that much about feedback of the players.

 

They know the feedbackers care but thats an other matter alltogether.

 

I think the most worry from feedback comes from within EA itself and steer more the inner workings/story of the developing game.

The illusion of steering is given to the players/public.



#43
Linkenski

Linkenski
  • Members
  • 3 451 messages

You mean more ME1-style fake wheels where Shepard says the same thing no matter what you pick, or are you talking about adding more lines somehow?

Two-fold so it's like

                            ____

                        /            \

Continue ---|                 |--- Cut to the chase 

                        \ _______ /

 

Ergo, skip the occasionally longwinded back and forth between Shepard and other guy or manually go through it. It's not so much that I don't get to decide what to say, it's more the feeling that I control Shepard's speech with gameplay that was lacking from ME3 to some extent. I liked that feeling in ME1 even when all 3 choices made me say the same thing. I felt like I was the puppetmaster and that's nice.


  • Calinstel aime ceci