35 réponses à ce sujet

[Theia_Loki]

I played Lair of the Shadow Broker in Mass Effect 2 last year, and I'll be honest, I did enjoy it. It was quite touching playing as fem shepard in the Liara Romance.

 

But I still had one question on my mind even after the DLC was over. That question concerned Liara's decision to not inform the rest of the old squad that Shepard was alive sooner.

 

To phrase the question more appropriately: "Does Liara have a good reason for not telling Ashley/Kaidan about Shepard being alive?"

 

Seeing as not informing them about this little tidbit of news lead to the poor reunion on Horizon, it wasn't a great decision in hindsight. Then again, everyone makes mistakes; they're something to learn from. And Liara admitted in the first game that she wasn't that great at socializing. (That moment where she tries backpedalling horribly when you teasingly note her fascination with you over your contact with the Beacon on Eden Prime comes to mind).

 

Of course, considering her options in that scenario between the Shadow Broker planning to sell Shepard's remains to the Collectors and giving Shepard's remains to Cerberus who would certainly be "attempting to manipulate" Shepard once they'd have revived them, explaining the whole thing to any of her former squadmates would have lead to plenty of harsh words at the least.

 

But did she refrain from telling them in case the Shadow Broker decided to go after them?

 

Seeing as she had already made an enemy out of him through the events of Mass Effect: Redemption, it was obvious the Shadow Broker would have gone after them if he had chosen to. And with him being an Information Broker, he could have easily fed them false info in one such attempt to either kill them or turn them against Liara. Wouldn't be surprising if that were the case, seeing as he gave Fist orders to kill her as soon as he got a hold of the Geth memory core.

 

I don't know. Just figured I'd give my speculation on the subject.

 

And I hope Bioware reads this and answers those questions.

[themikefest]

The reunion on Horizon with Ashley/Kaidan happens before the dlc can be played. It would be interesting to hear/see their reaction if Shepard was given the opportunity to tell them that it was Liara that gave his/her body to Cerberus.

 

I would also like to hear an answer to your question.

 

I would also like an answer as to why she has Shepard's armor in a glass case on display like its some kind of trophy

[SuperJogi]

I would also like an answer as to why she has Shepard's armor in a glass case on display like its some kind of trophy

 

Maybe she is the Asari version of some guy collecting used panties.

And of course Shepard deserves a special place... 

[KrrKs]

Does Liara even know that Shepard is alive?

 At that point she only knows that she got Cerberus Shep's corpse, and that Cerberus tries to reanimate him/her.

Considering that (realistically ?) a success is very questionable and took nearly 2 years from that point to eventually succeed, informing anyone beforehand is a bit premature.

(I also wonder what response she would get.: "Hey, remember that terror organization that fed people to thresher-maws, and huskified colonists? I got them Shepard's body to experiment with! No need to thank me.")

 

Another thing is that Liara probably couldn't actually communicate with most of the crew, as they scattered everywhere and went underground (Garrus, probably also Joker and Chakwas before joining Cerberus), or had secret assignments (VS and Tali -sort of).

 

Maybe she is the Asari version of some guy collecting used panties.

And of course Shepard deserves a special place... 

Wow. Suddenly Conrad's obsession is a lot more normal...

[aoibhealfae]

We're supposed to see her as the woman who love you so much that she bring your corpse to terrorists because she doesn't want you to stay dead and that she love you more than everyone else in the crew. We're supposed to see her preserving Shepard's armor as adorable and the sign of her loyalty and true love. And since we bought LOTSB, its all hugs and kisses with her like everything is forgivable even if she's displaying herself as a stalker creep...

 

When does Mac Walters ever consistent anyway.

[themikefest]

I forgot to mention why did Hackett give Shepard's dogtags to T'soni instead of Shepard's mother for those that play a spacer? That's another answer I like to hear from Bioware.

[Theia_Loki]

To be honest, I forgave her due to the silver lining to the circumstances of the decision.

 

If she hadn't given Shepard's body to Cerberus, they'd still be dead and Collector property, Ashley/Kaidan would've been abducted (grateful or not), Garrus would've been dead to the Merc Groups, and never would have discovered that another Reaper was involved nor found out about a dead one. Just pointing out the bigger picture here.

 

 

I don't spend too much energy worrying about those little details in scenarios like this. She had the best of intentions from that moment, did what she thought was right, and lived with the outcome; that's all that matters personally.

[themikefest]

If she hadn't given Shepard's body to Cerberus, they'd still be dead and Collector property, Ashley/Kaidan would've been abducted (grateful or not), Garrus would've been dead to the Merc Groups, and never would have discovered that another Reaper was involved nor found out about a dead one. Just pointing out the bigger picture here.

I'm sure if Liara wasn't around, Cerberus could've grabbed Shepard's body.
 

I don't spend too much energy worrying about those little details in scenarios like this. She had the best of intentions from that moment, did what she thought was right, and lived with the outcome; that's all that matters personally.

You may believe she had the best of intentions, but I would still like the opportunity to ask those questions.

[aoibhealfae]

Miranda and Jacob would attack Shadow Broker and steal Shepard's body. It was their intel to begin with.

[Livi14]

TIM was the one who contacted Liara and asked for her help, Jacob wasn't even at Omega at that time.

[Theia_Loki]

TIM was the one who contacted Liara and asked for her help, Jacob wasn't even at Omega at that time.

 

That is true. TIM was also the guy that deliberately leaked that intel that Shepard was alive to the Alliance, and the main offender for the reunion on Horizon going badly...all so he could keep Shepard Cerberus-aligned. Of course, Ashley/Kaidan not thinking to ask if Shepard had "officially joined" Cerberus didn't help either.

 

 

But seeing as Liara doesn't find out Shepard is alive until after Horizon and doesn't see them until Illium, she likely didn't expect Cerberus to have kept their word that Shepard would be brought back to life.

 

And yes, I'm being reasonable when looking at the details for Liara here. No point being very damning about a character unless they give undeniable reason for you to do so.

[aoibhealfae]

Without LOTSB or reading ME Redemption, you could still play the game thinking Cerberus recovered Shepard's body without either Shadow Broker or Liara's involvement. The only thing that was a definite canon is that she eventually became a Shadow Broker in ME3.

[Theia_Loki]

Recently posted on AskBioware on Facebook regarding this.

 

#AskBioware Why didn't Liara inform the Virmire survivor about Shepard sooner back in ME2?

 

This way, we can get a definite answer to this particular question.

[themikefest]

Without LOTSB or reading ME Redemption, you could still play the game thinking Cerberus recovered Shepard's body without either Shadow Broker or Liara's involvement. The only thing that was a definite canon is that she eventually became a Shadow Broker in ME3.

If playing a default ME3 playthrough, the edibot will say that Cerberus recovered Shepard's body just before viewing the video logs on Chronos

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

This thread is in the wrong thread. This should be in the "things that don't make sense."

 

And addressing @themikefest's last post.... wow. You mean Mac threw out established lore for those who didn't buy ME2? Then again, when has Mass Effect lore ever been consistent?

 

Why didn't Liara inform the VS about turning Shepard's body over to Cerberus because The Illusive Man said he could bring him back to life? Well, let's see.... 

 

Since Cerberus was involved, I don't think that exchange would go over very well. Kaidan might be a bit reasonable "Sorry Liara, you can't trust Cerberus"; but Ashley would end up getting slapped with a singularity. 

[themikefest]

And addressing @themikefest's last post.... wow. You mean Mac threw out established lore for those who didn't buy ME2? Then again, when has Mass Effect lore ever been consistent?

Yes. I believe you and I are the only one's who have mentioned numerous times that ME3 is the best place to start playing the trilogy and that the game was made for new players.

 

Here's what is said on Chronos

[Undead Han]

I think KrrKs covered it well. Before Liara encounters Shepard on Illum, she doesn't know that Shepard is alive. 

 

She gave Shepard's body to Cerberus, but there was never any guarantee that the Lazarus Project would succeed. It was an experimental medical procedure and something that had never been done before, at least in the current cycle's history. 

 

Even if Liara had been  known before the Illium reunion and informed the Virmire Survivor, it wouldn't have changed anything. The VS would still have thrown a temper tantrum about Cerberus, and there was nothing the VS could do in response to that news. Ashley and Kaidan are military personnel that are bound to go where the Alliance sends them. They'd still end up on Horizon.

[themikefest]

I think KrrKs covered it well. Before Liara encounters Shepard on Illum, she doesn't know that Shepard is alive.

Before Illium, Ashley/Kaidan will say there were rumors that Shepard wasn't dead. If Shepard visits the Citadel at the beginning, people notice her/him. Even a vendor mentions Shepard by name. She mentions that her sources said Shepard was alive, but never believed. She then says now you're back gunning for the collectors with Cerberus. Shepard will say its not exactly public knowledge. Liara will say I'm a very good information broker.

So if she says that, why are you saying she didn't know Shepard wasn't alive until seeing Shepard on Illium?
 

She gave Shepard's body to Cerberus, but there was never any guarantee that the Lazarus Project would succeed. It was an experimental medical procedure and something that had never been done before, at least in the current cycle's history.

Whether the Project would be successful or not, she still should've told someone. Hackett or Anderson. Those two could pass the information to whoever even if they find it hard to believe. I know if I was Shepard's mother I would want to know. Did someone tell her not to tell anyone? Its interesting that Hackett gave her Shepard's dogtags. I would like to know when that happened and why they were given to her.
 

Even if Liara had been  known before the Illium reunion and informed the Virmire Survivor, it wouldn't have changed anything. The VS would still have thrown a temper tantrum about Cerberus, and there was nothing the VS could do in response to that news. Ashley and Kaidan are military personnel that are bound to go where the Alliance sends them. They'd still end up on Horizon.

There's no way to know how different that scene would've play out if they were told. I wouldn't be surprised if the scene, and the dialogue, was different had they of known

[Barquiel]

I think KrrKs covered it well. Before Liara encounters Shepard on Illum, she doesn't know that Shepard is alive. 
 
She gave Shepard's body to Cerberus, but there was never any guarantee that the Lazarus Project would succeed. It was an experimental medical procedure and something that had never been done before, at least in the current cycle's history. 
 
Even if Liara had been  known before the Illium reunion and informed the Virmire Survivor, it wouldn't have changed anything. The VS would still have thrown a temper tantrum about Cerberus, and there was nothing the VS could do in response to that news. Ashley and Kaidan are military personnel that are bound to go where the Alliance sends them. They'd still end up on Horizon.

That's my reasoning as well...why give the crew and Shepards family false hope and/or possible hostility towards Liara? Miranda told Liara that Cerberus may not be able to restore Shepard and that the body is in worse shape than expected - and it took Wilson and TIM to convince her that it is possible.

And I think it's unfair to single out Liara after Shepard's resurrection. Anderson and Hackett knew exactly what's going on (it's indicated that Liara informed Hackett because he gave her the dogtags)...and by the time Horizon takes place many people know Shepard is back (Tali, Garrus, Joker, Chakwas...Shepard even gave an interview on the citadel). But then...Shepard even forgot to write her mother that she isn't dead.

[themikefest]

That's my reasoning as well...why give the crew and Shepards family false hope and/or possible hostility towards Liara? Miranda told Liara that Cerberus may not be able to restore Shepard and that the body is in worse shape than expected - and it took Wilson and TIM to convince her that it is possible.

So if the reapers never existed and Cerberus wasn't able to bring Shepard back, Liara would not tell anyone and take the information to her grave?

What false hope would she give? Why can't she tell the truth? But you hit the nail on the head  She didn't want any hostility headed her way. She was on a ship where she made friends and didn't want to jeopardize that friendship.

Its too bad Shepard can't ask her about that along with a few other questions.
 

And I think it's unfair to single out Liara after Shepard's resurrection.

What's unfair about it?
 

Anderson and Hackett knew exactly what's going on (it's indicated that Liara informed Hackett because he gave her the dogtags)

Anderson knew? Did Liara inform Hackett? When did that happen?

Interesting you say Hackett gave her the dogtags when, if she is romanced, she says she recovered them. Why is that?

[Mexiguin]

This thread is in the wrong thread. This should be in the "things that don't make sense."

 

And addressing @themikefest's last post.... wow. You mean Mac threw out established lore for those who didn't buy ME2? Then again, when has Mass Effect lore ever been consistent?

 

Why didn't Liara inform the VS about turning Shepard's body over to Cerberus because The Illusive Man said he could bring him back to life? Well, let's see.... 

 

Since Cerberus was involved, I don't think that exchange would go over very well. Kaidan might be a bit reasonable "Sorry Liara, you can't trust Cerberus"; but Ashley would end up getting slapped with a singularity. 

To be fair, I'd like to see Ashley get slapped with a singularity.

[Undead Han]

Before Illium, Ashley/Kaidan will say there were rumors that Shepard wasn't dead. If Shepard visits the Citadel at the beginning, people notice her/him. Even a vendor mentions Shepard by name. She mentions that her sources said Shepard was alive, but never believed. She then says now you're back gunning for the collectors with Cerberus. Shepard will say its not exactly public knowledge. Liara will say I'm a very good information broker.

So if she says that, why are you saying she didn't know Shepard wasn't alive until seeing Shepard on Illium?

 

People report seeing Elvis all the time too. 

[themikefest]

People report seeing Elvis all the time too. 

Go to Vegas. He's seen there all the time.

 

Liara is a very bad information broker. Not surprising

[Undead Han]

Go to Vegas. He's seen there all the time.

 

Liara is a very bad information broker. Not surprising

 

The Lazarus Project occurred entirely in an isolated Cerberus space station, not on Omega, Illium, or the Citadel. Why should Liara know how things are progressing inside it? The isolation should give Cerberus operational security.

 

If anything the series portrayed the Shadow Broker as being too proficient and all-knowing. No real world intelligence agency is anywhere near as well-informed.

[themikefest]

The Lazarus Project occurred entirely in an isolated Cerberus space station, not on Omega, Illium, or the Citadel. Why should Liara know how things are progressing inside it? The isolation should give Cerberus operational security.

Who said anything about her knowing how things are progressing?

Shepard goes to the Citadel has an interview with the reporter. A vendor recognizes Shepard by name. Shepard endorses  vendors. There are reports over the intercom that Shepard is seen on Omega.

How can she not know Shepard is alive before seeing Shepard on Illium? If she doesn't know Shepard is alive, why would she say that Shepard is gunning for the collectors with Cerberus?
 

If anything the series portrayed the Shadow Broker as being too proficient and all-knowing. No real world intelligence agency is anywhere near as well-informed.

The Shadow Broker does have informants all over the place. The one in the dlc has been doing it for a long time. He may not of known everything, but he did know enough to manipulate events if he chose to.

That may not work in today's world, but it does in the ME world.