35 respuestas en este tema

[MrFob]

Why would Liara call the VS about this, even if she hears rumors that Shep was seen on the Citadel, Omega or wherever? She didn't see Shep herself so it's not first hand knowladge. The VS might already be on Horizon and have their own mission. It might be really weird to contact them with rumors.

 

And if Shep was on the Citadel and Liara got absolutely reliable intel on Sheo being alive, there is still someone else who also knows at this point and that is Anderson. He is the friggin' commanding officer of Ash/Kaidan. Why doesn't he tell them?

 

I'd say, if Liara knew, she probably thought that it was Anderson's business to inform the VS if he deemed it necessary. And if not, she'd probably think that he had his reasons not to tell the VS (they are there ti investigate Cerberus activies after all) and therefore, she might not tell them on purpose.

 

Either way, Liara isn't the first person to blame for not telling the VS anything.

[Undead Han]

Who said anything about her knowing how things are progressing?

Shepard goes to the Citadel has an interview with the reporter. A vendor recognizes Shepard by name. Shepard endorses  vendors. There are reports over the intercom that Shepard is seen on Omega.

How can she not know Shepard is alive before seeing Shepard on Illium? If she doesn't know Shepard is alive, why would she say that Shepard is gunning for the collectors with Cerberus?

 

The interview with the reporter can also occur after Shepard has met Liara on Illium. It actually makes zero sense for the interview to occur at any time before Shepard was run across all of the ME1 cast members, because doing a television interview should be the end of any speculation about Shepard being alive or dead. It should immediately transition from rumor to confirmed fact. This is particularly the case considering that Shepard is effectively a major celebrity well before the start of ME2, and news of him/her resurfacing after supposedly being dead would be a major story.

 

On that note...why would Liara need to tell the VS anything if Shepard has already done a television interview? 

 

Liara knows Shepard is alive by the time the Normandy touches down on Illium, but there is no indication she knew Shepard was alive from the point he/she escaped the Cerberus space station. It makes more sense for her not to have known until shortly before Illium, as she wasn't a member of either Cerberus or the Lazarus Project. 

 

 

The Shadow Broker does have informants all over the place. The one in the dlc has been doing it for a long time. He may not of known everything, but he did know enough to manipulate events if he chose to.

That may not work in today's world, but it does in the ME world.

 

The way the Shadow Broker was portrayed was dumb. Spymasters shouldn't be omniscient.

 

Cerberus also had the same problem, though it alternated between omniscient and incompetent whenever the plot demanded it.

[themikefest]

The interview with the reporter can also occur after Shepard has met Liara on Illium. It actually makes zero sense for the interview to occur at any time before Shepard was run across all of the ME1 cast members, because doing a television interview should be the end of any speculation about Shepard being alive or dead. It should immediately transition from rumor to confirmed fact. This is particularly the case considering that Shepard is effectively a major celebrity well before the start of ME2, and news of him/her resurfacing after supposedly being dead would be a major story.

So can another million things happen after Shepard leaves Illium. So what. The game allows the player to go to the Citadel, see Anderson, endorse those vendors, talk with the reporter, and do many other things.

For her to make the comment that Shepard is gunning for the collectors with Cerberus would suggest she knew Shepard was alive long before seeing him/her on Illium.
 

On that note...why would Liara need to tell the VS anything if Shepard has already done a television interview?

Who is saying she needs to tell Ashley/Kaidan at that time?
 

Liara knows Shepard is alive by the time the Normandy touches down on Illium,

She why did you say this?
 

I think KrrKs covered it well. Before Liara encounters Shepard on Illum, she doesn't know that Shepard is alive.

 
 

but there is no indication she knew Shepard was alive from the point he/she escaped the Cerberus space station.

I don't believe I've ever mentioned she knew that Shepard escaped the Cerberus station at that point.
 

It makes more sense for her not to have known until shortly before Illium,

That depends on the playthrough. Once Shepard is on the Normandy, she/he can go and visit wherever before doing any missions. That's more than enough time for Liara to know that Shepard is alive either from her sources or rumors that may of been passed through the grapevine
 

as she wasn't a member of either Cerberus or the Lazarus Project.

I don't believe anyone has ever mentioned she was
 

The way the Shadow Broker was portrayed was dumb. Spymasters shouldn't be omniscient.

I wouldn't call them that. I'm sure there was a lot of stuff the broker didn't know about. I wouldn't be surprised that some of the information he got was from throwing credits at a few folks that gave him some very valuable information.
 

[Theia_Loki]

Fair points. Liara wouldn't have even had to inform Ashley/Kaidan anyways seeing as Shepard could go through that interview and endorsed all those stores in Zakera Ward on the Citadel, or even gotten reinstated as a Spectre. Why the latter doesn't look at the interview makes you wonder if they just wanted to yell at Shepard anyways for "working for Cerberus".

 

My only real issues with Horizon that time were three things:

1) that dick Mechanic Delan (whom I really wish the Collectors had abducted instead of that Lilith girl)

2)  the VS not giving you any prolonged chance to explain your side of things

3) Mr "Illusive Dick" deliberately leaking the lead that the Alliance got, which found it's way to the VS. What a charming guy

 

 

The odd thing is that Liara is still listed under the Poor Communication Kills, Never My Fault, and Hypocrite pages on TvTropes. She rhetorically criticized the VS for their shortsightedness if you pick the "frustrated" dialogue choice when she asks how you're really feeling, but how does that qualify her for the latter two sections? I don't get it.

[Undead Han]

So can another million things happen after Shepard leaves Illium. So what. The game allows the player to go to the Citadel, see Anderson, endorse those vendors, talk with the reporter, and do many other things.

 

The point is that since the meeting with Khalisa can occur at any point during the story, it isn't necessarily 'canon' that it occurs before Illium. It also makes zero sense for that interview to occur at any point before Shepard meets all of the cast members from ME1, since Shepard's survival should cease to be a rumor that minute he/she does a major television interview in the galaxy's capital city. Everyone in Council space should know Shepard is alive at that point, unless they've been living in a cave.

 

If the player chooses to do the interview before Illium, then no explanation is needed for why Liara doesn't tell the VS about Shepard's survival. Why does she need to tell anyone about information that was already broadcast on the galaxy's equivalent of CNN?

 

 

 

themikefest, on 29 Jan 2016 - 1:47 PM, said:

For her to make the comment that Shepard is gunning for the collectors with Cerberus would suggest she knew Shepard was alive long before seeing him/her on Illium.

 

Long is head canon. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

themikefest, on 29 Jan 2016 - 1:47 PM, said:

 

Who is saying she needs to tell Ashley/Kaidan at that time?

 

It is in the original post of this thread.

 

 

 

 

Themikefest, on 29 Jan 2016 - 1:47 PM, said:

 

She why did you say this?

 

Because Liara says so in the game.

 

"My sources said you were alive, but I never believed...It's very good to see you."

 

The game tells you that she didn't for know sure that Shepard was alive until either he/she arrives on the Normandy, or shortly before. Even without that dialogue however it would have been a reasonable assumption. After all she isn't Cerberus and wasn't part of the Lazarus Project. She had a good working relationship with Miranda, but the two weren't close enough to be friends. Why should she have insider knowledge?

 

 

 

Themikefest, on 29 Jan 2016 - 1:47 PM, said:

 

I don't believe anyone has ever mentioned she was

 

You missed the point. 

 

Since she wasn't an insider it makes more sense for her not to be privy to the progress of the Lazarus Project. The problem isn't with how Liara was portrayed as an information broker in ME2, but how the Shadow Broker was portrayed in the previous game. Even the most skillful of intelligence agencies in the real world are no where near as omniscient as how the Shadow Broker was portrayed in ME1. It was a little silly, and the series needed less of that...not more.

[themikefest]

The point is that since the meeting with Khalisa can occur at any point during the story, it isn't necessarily 'canon' that it occurs before Illium. It also makes zero sense for that interview to occur at any point before Shepard meets all of the cast members from ME1, since Shepard's survival should cease to be a rumor that minute he/she does a major television interview in the galaxy's capital city. Everyone in Council space should know Shepard is alive at that point, unless they've been living in a cave.

Why are you focused on the interview? Take that away and it still wouldn't be hard to know that Shepard is alive. Just having Shepard on Omega and Citadel is enough that she/he alive. If that vendor can recognize Shepard with no problem, then a lot of others can as well whether its on the Citadel or Omega
 

If the player chooses to do the interview before Illium, then no explanation is needed for why Liara doesn't tell the VS about Shepard's survival. Why does she need to tell anyone about information that was already broadcast on the galaxy's equivalent of CNN?

I never said she needs to tell the VS.
 

Long is head canon.

Depends on your definition of long.

Going by the broker dlc, she knew for quite a while. Anderson was able to send a message to Shepard before any mission is started. Most likely TIM sent word that Shepard was with Cerberus while on Freedom's Progress. Most likely Hackett found out the same time Anderson did. At which point, for whatever reason, got in contact with Liara. Both met so he could give Shepard's dogtags to her.
 

Because Liara says so in the game.
 
"My sources said you were alive, but I never believed...It's very good to see you."

So why is she an information broker if she can't trust what her sources tell her?
 

The game tells you that she didn't for know sure that Shepard was alive until either he/she arrives on the Normandy, or shortly before. Even without that dialogue however it would have been a reasonable assumption.

Doesn't know and not believing are two different things.
 

After all she isn't Cerberus and wasn't part of the Lazarus Project. She had a good working relationship with Miranda, but the two weren't close enough to be friends. Why should she have insider knowledge?

Did I ever say she had insider knowledge of her knowing about the project? Is there a reason why you're bringing up the project?
 

You missed the point.

I didn't miss anything. You're bringing up the project, for whatever reason, when no one even mentioned it. Why?
 

[Undead Han]

themikefest, on 30 Jan 2016 - 10:42 AM, said:

Why are you focused on the interview?

 

I'm not. You mentioned it on the first page.

 

I pointed out in response that once it occurs Shepard's survival is now front page news. This thread is about why Liara didn't inform Kaidan or Ashley about Shepard's survival, something you've seemed to lose track of. Obviously if Shepard immediately runs to the Citadel and talks to Khalisah, Liara doesn't have any information about Shepard that the rest of the galaxy doesn't also have. Hence, there would be nothing to discuss with the VS that the VS shouldn't already know.

 

 

 

 

themikefest, on 30 Jan 2016 - 10:42 AM, said:

 

I never said she needs to tell the VS.

 

That is what this thread is about. From the original post:

 

"To phrase the question more appropriately: "Does Liara have a good reason for not telling Ashley/Kaidan about Shepard being alive?"

 

 

themikefest, on 30 Jan 2016 - 10:42 AM, said:

 

Depends on your definition of long.

 

Going by the broker dlc, she knew for quite a while. Anderson was able to send a message to Shepard before any mission is started. Most likely TIM sent word that Shepard was with Cerberus while on Freedom's Progress. Most likely Hackett found out the same time Anderson did. At which point, for whatever reason, got in contact with Liara. Both met so he could give Shepard's dogtags to her.

 

Liara's dialogue on first meeting Shepard makes it clear that she didn't know Shepard was alive until shortly before he/she arrives on Illium. She flat out tells Shepard that she didn't believe he/she was alive.

 

LotSB potentially introduces inconsistencies, but only if you complete it before the Suicide Mission. It makes a lot more sense if you save it for after. Even then you don't know exactly when Liara was given the dogtags. It could have occurred between that first meeting on Illium and the conclusion of the DLC.

 

 

themikefest, on 30 Jan 2016 - 10:42 AM, said:

 

So why is she an information broker if she can't trust what her sources tell her?

 

Sources aren't always correct. There are a multitude of examples of that in the real world. 

 

It's clear from her dialogue that the information was a rumor at best, and not confirmation, since she says she didn't believe them.

 

 

 

themikefest, on 30 Jan 2016 - 10:42 AM, said:

 

Doesn't know and not believing are two different things.

 

There is no indication that she had definitive proof that Shepard was alive. It would also be frankly out of character for a scientist to discount evidence. It's fairly clear that she's referring to rumors, just like every other character that mentions rumors of Shepard still be alive.

 

That of course doesn't make sense if Shepard does the interview with Khalisah first, but it is why that side quest is best saved for after meeting all characters from ME1 who make cameos. It doesn't make sense for anyone in the entire galaxy to still be unaware that Shepard was alive once he or she starts appearing on the television news.

 

 

 

 

themikefest, on 30 Jan 2016 - 10:42 AM, said:

 

Did I ever say she had insider knowledge of her knowing about the project? Is there a reason why you're bringing up the project?
I didn't miss anything. You're bringing up the project, for whatever reason, when no one even mentioned it. Why?

 

I was fairly clear about why it is relevant.

 

The Lazarus Project occurred on an isolated space station in deep space, crewed entirely by a small Cerberus team. It quite frankly isn't very realistic that Liara would know the status of the project as a space station in deep space should give Cerberus operational security. That Wilson is bitter and seeks a better deal with the Shadow Broker doesn't necessarily mean he would have also contacted every information broker in the galaxy.

 

TL;DR version: Liara not finding out about Shepard's survival until relatively late in the story is a lot more more plausible than her finding out very early.

[Wulfram]

Of course even if Shepard's corpse is walking about doesn't mean that Shepard is back.

Romanced Liara on Cronos station says "I knew it was you the first time I touched you again", which rather indicates she wasn't sure until they met.

[themikefest]

I'm not. You mentioned it on the first page.

Yeah So what? Why aren't you bringing up the fact that the vendor noticed Shepard, by name, and that if he was able to, others would to on the Citadel as well as on Omega?
 

I pointed out in response that once it occurs Shepard's survival is now front page news. This thread is about why Liara didn't inform Kaidan or Ashley about Shepard's survival, something you've seemed to lose track of. Obviously if Shepard immediately runs to the Citadel and talks to Khalisah, Liara doesn't have any information about Shepard that the rest of the galaxy doesn't also have. Hence, there would be nothing to discuss with the VS that the VS shouldn't already know.

I too would like to know why she didn't tell anyone after the body was handed over to Cerberus. Did someone tell her not to tell anyone? Did she feel the others in Shepard's life don't need to know? How long would she of waited to tell anyone if Shepard never came back? The answer to that one would be never since the reapers would've harvested the galaxy.

After Shepard comes back to life, and is seen on the Citadel and Omega, Ashley/Kaidan would know from the rumors being tossed around, They even mention that on Horizon. I would suspect that Liara wouldn't say anything at that time to avoid any confrontation. Unfortunately, once Shepard finds out it was Liara that handed his/her body to Cerberus, he/she isn't given the opportunity to tell Ashley/Kaidan. I know my Shepard would've told them in ME3. Of course ME3 being the third game and the best place to start playing a trilogy, a new player wouldn't know what that would mean. Even so, I'm sure that was purposely done to avoid any friction between the characters
 
 

That is what this thread is about. From the original post:
 
"To phrase the question more appropriately: "Does Liara have a good reason for not telling Ashley/Kaidan about Shepard being alive?"

I would include in that question, Shepard's mother, for those that play a spacer, though had she told Anderson, he could relay the message to Mrs. Shepard.

Does she have a good reason not to tell anyone? My answer is no.
 

Liara's dialogue on first meeting Shepard makes it clear that she didn't know Shepard was alive until shortly before he/she arrives on Illium. She flat out tells Shepard that she didn't believe he/she was alive.

I will just say she knew Shepard was alive before the time you believe she knew.
 

LotSB potentially introduces inconsistencies, but only if you complete it before the Suicide Mission. It makes a lot more sense if you save it for after.

Maybe BioWare should've though about that before releasing the dlc.
 

Even then you don't know exactly when Liara was given the dogtags. It could have occurred between that first meeting on Illium and the conclusion of the DLC.

Actually the player has an idea of when Liara got the dogtags. From what I remember, she looks at her desk when talking with Shepard. It shows dogtags on the the item she takes when she heads back to her apartment and the same item again when she hands the dogtags to Shepard on the Normandy.

Since the dlc can be completed right after Horizon, I would say Hackett and Liara met sometime between the moment the SR2 is revealed and just before Horizon
 

Sources aren't always correct.

Then its safe to say that whatever Liara says is to be taken with a grain of salt.
 

It's clear from her dialogue that the information was a rumor at best, and not confirmation, since she says she didn't believe them.

Funny how she believes her sources when it came to giving information of who to get hold of to find Thane and Samara. If she doesn't believe them, then why be an information broker? If she can't trust her sources, then she's wasting her time being an information broker.
 

There is no indication that she had definitive proof that Shepard was alive. It would also be frankly out of character for a scientist to discount evidence. It's fairly clear that she's referring to rumors, just like every other character that mentions rumors of Shepard still be alive.

My suggestion to her is either get more reliable sources or give up the broker thing and do something else.
 

That of course doesn't make sense if Shepard does the interview with Khalisah first, but it is why that side quest is best saved for after meeting all characters from ME1 who make cameos.

BioWare doesn't agree. The game says I can talk with the reporter at any time, so I talk to the reporter if I choose.

[themikefest]

I was fairly clear about why it is relevant.
 
The Lazarus Project occurred on an isolated space station in deep space, crewed entirely by a small Cerberus team. It quite frankly isn't very realistic that Liara would know the status of the project as a space station in deep space should give Cerberus operational security. That Wilson is bitter and seeks a better deal with the Shadow Broker doesn't necessarily mean he would have also contacted every information broker in the galaxy.

Relevant or not, no one has posted that she knew what was going on with the project.

TL;DR version: Liara not finding out about Shepard's survival until relatively late in the story is a lot more more plausible than her finding out very early.

Than BioWare should've made it that way

 

All I know is that some things were put in the dlc that Shepard isn''t given the opportunity to ask her about.

[Theia_Loki]

I just realized something a few days ago.

 

If Liara went and told the VS about the events of Redemption herself, it could have resulted in the latter being livid with her at worst. Which, in the worst case scenario, would have included the whole "no trust in Shepard" mess. But that would have involved Liara trying to prove herself trustworthy to them in 3, not Shepard.

 

 

More importantly, The Illusive Man did say that the Virmire Survivor's file was "surprisingly well classified". Anderson confirms that the VS's file was classified, on top of working on a special mission.

 

This does make the VS's "why didn't you try to contact me?" line look a little sillier by Irony. Not only were they in the dark on information that would have cleared Shepard of distrust, information allowing Shepard to contact and inform them beforehand was kept from them.