I'm just finishing "Stolen Throne" which Gaider wrote. How much (what percentage) of Dragon Age Origins, DA2, and Inquisition is Gaider's brainchild versus others on the Dragon Age team? Was there any feuding behind the scenes that compelled Gaider to leave?
Quite a bit. He created the setting at first. He laid out a lot of the main lore. I think Mary Kirby fleshed out a lot of it too though.
I don't know anything about feuding. I doubt it. But I don't blame him for leaving... for EA alone.
What's this about a boycott of Beamdog? I heard some rantings about SJWs or some such, but I don't know what that's all about.
Apparently quite a few people didn't like that the game included a (minor) transsexual character and a comment that gently ribs GamerGate, hence they've flooded its metacritic page with negative reviews (shows us how much Metacritic reviews are worth these days, IMO)
http://www.craveonli...exual-character
Oh geez, I have a lot less difficulty swallowing the presence of a transgender character in D&D than I do in Dragon Age, where polymorphic magic is fairly common and shapeshifters are everywhere. Hell, a gender-changing belt was even a minor plot point in Order of the Stick. "Betrayed the franchise" my butt.
Just from browsing a few forums discussing the game, and not having played the expansion, I can't tell how much of the raging is specifically about the trans character and gamer gate. It's my impression that those are unfortunately an underlying cause of tension, but some people are claiming it's more about the quality of writing. Apparently the trans character just states their trans status to the PC upon first meeting and it comes across as poor writing as an excuse to "shove the liberal agenda down our throats." And one of the writers for the game had an interview where she said she didn't like the portrayal of Safana and Jaheira so she was rewriting them for this expansion, and if fans didn't like that, too bad.
So...I think it's a lot of factors mixing together. But unfortunately it does seem like some people are using the cover of "poor writing" as the vehicle to rant about SJWs and the writers' agenda.
Just from browsing a few forums discussing the game, and not having played the expansion, I can't tell how much of the raging is specifically about the trans character and gamer gate. It's my impression that those are unfortunately an underlying cause of tension, but some people are claiming it's more about the quality of writing. Apparently the trans character just states their trans status to the PC upon first meeting and it comes across as poor writing as an excuse to "shove the liberal agenda down our throats." And one of the writers for the game had an interview where she said she didn't like the portrayal of Safana and Jaheira so she was rewriting them for this expansion, and if fans didn't like that, too bad.
So...I think it's a lot of factors mixing together. But unfortunately it does seem like some people are using the cover of "poor writing" as the vehicle to rant about SJWs and the writers' agenda.
Also they've somehow made it buggier than it was. I got it to crash 5 minutes after creating a new character.
Taking it upon themselves to retcon characters when they've misinterpreted those characters in the first place hasn't gone down well either.
In short they've made several mistakes and then telling people who bought the game that they're wrong is the icing on the cake.
Only got to look at the new characters they've added to realize Ms Scott gets her writing influence from sitcoms! Click Neera - the new wild mage and she says "You rang" Uh yeah, no phones in Faerun or any where else in Forgotten Realms Ms Scott!
It's fun to watch though.
I hope DG hasn't burnt his bridges in BW because he might be wanting has old job back before too long
Quite a bit. He created the setting at first. He laid out a lot of the main lore. I think Mary Kirby fleshed out a lot of it too though.
I think it was Mary Kirby who wrote the Chant of Light.
I think it was Mary Kirby who wrote the Chant of Light.
That and gave the Qunari their language (and wrote Sten as well). I think she contributed to various religious stuff in general. Not sure about elves. I know she named the elf Wardens. Mahariel is the angel guarding the gates of heaven. Which is appropriate with the In Uthenera stuff. Tabris is the angel of free will. Appropriate for the freed elves after Fen'Harel.
I wish she was the Lead instead of Weekes... but whatever. I guess she moved on too.
That and gave the Qunari their language (and wrote Sten as well). I think she contributed to various religious stuff in general. Not sure about elves. I know she named the elf Wardens. Mahariel is the angel guarding the gates of heaven. Which is appropriate with the In Uthenera stuff. Tabris is the angel of free will. Appropriate for the freed elves after Fen'Harel.
I wish she was the Lead instead of Weekes... but whatever. I guess she moved on too.
Yikes! When you mentioned Mary Kirby earlier, I assumed she was number two to Gaider. I looked her up online and noted the stuff about the Chant and the characters she wrote for and was satisfied she would be a good replacement. Now hearing she's gone is worrisome. When DA4 comes along, will it have lost all connection to the earlier games? Weekes has a strong resume but is relatively new to Dragon Age. One wonders what direction he will take things.
Yikes! When you mentioned Mary Kirby earlier, I assumed she was number two to Gaider. I looked her up online and noted the stuff about the Chant and the characters she wrote for and was satisfied she would be a good replacement. Now hearing she's gone is worrisome. When DA4 comes along, will it have lost all connection to the earlier games? Weekes has a strong resume but is relatively new to Dragon Age. One wonders what direction he will take things.
I fear he'll take it into more non-human/Wonderland territory. He seems to want to write about stuff-off-the beaten path. High level lore stuff with Fen'harel or spirits.. While he just screws around with the Qunari.
To me he seems like someone who was handed the "lore bible" and just picked the fantasical stuff. He's also the one who wrote a lot of the poem codexes and stuff in DAI. Which I don't care for. Or at least, I don't care how it's spread out and the amount of it.
Eh. If Kirby and Gaider are gone, I still like Sheryl Chee and Lukas. I hope they're still there. They wrote a lot of down to earth stuff. Leliana, Isabela, Sera, Aveline, Sigrun, Oghren. Rogues and City Guards and comic relief. I believe Lukas also wrote a lot of Sarcastic Hawke. As much as I liked Gaider and Kirby, I enjoyed this stuff the most.
At the moment, Patrick Weekes is the only writer on the Dragon Age team. Everyone else moved over to the Sekrit New IP, and everyone except Gaider is still working on it.
That doesn't mean that Mary Kirby, Sheryl Chee, Lukas Kristjanson, Brianne Battye and Sylvia Feketukty won't be back for DA4, though. I guess it depends on when DA4 goes into full production.
At the moment, Patrick Weekes is the only writer on the Dragon Age team. Everyone else moved over to the Sekrit New IP, and everyone except Gaider is still working on it.
That doesn't mean that Mary Kirby, Sheryl Chee, Lukas Kristjanson, Brianne Battye and Sylvia Feketukty won't be back for DA4, though. I guess it depends on when DA4 goes into full production.
I don't even want him as a lead. That alone is sad to me. And it's sad to me that Jen Hepler left too -- because that's who Gaider originally planned to take over. Instead the "fans" scared her off with death threats. That's when things already went downhill.
Interestingly, Brent Knowles now works at Beamdog too. I'll be looking forward to whatever they come out with. It'll probably be closer to the Bioware I liked than whatever this will be.
Oh geez, I have a lot less difficulty swallowing the presence of a transgender character in D&D than I do in Dragon Age, where polymorphic magic is fairly common and shapeshifters are everywhere. Hell, a gender-changing belt was even a minor plot point in Order of the Stick. "Betrayed the franchise" my butt.
The whole debacle sort of made me laugh which I know is terrible ...but it's part Beamdog being super clumsy in an hilarious way.
And some fans being outraged beyond belief for some details.
Like you said they put a transgender character in a game where there , imho , shouldn't really be a transgender character because in this game world you can change your gender easily.
This character is just a really minor npcs , but jesus the writing ...
I'll still give Beamdog props because hey sometimes it's the thought that counts.
Anyway it's not just an in game problem oh no , no.A writer did a interview saying "I am a SJW , I'm proud of it .I'm going to put some diversity in game.And if you're not happy , deal with it!"
Which again is fine , but it's like watching her painting herself red and teasing a Bull.
Oh and I should add with Beamdog now well established finesse , they made Minsk said a line mocking the Gamergate movement openly.
The thing that made me explode in laughter , is when the review started to get bad ...some Beamdog guy asked the fans on the forum to go write some good review to shut down the haters.Which pissed people off ...but I don't think it was so bad.
But it doesn't stop here , the damage control went on like a trainwreck in slow motion, a Beamdog guy went on twitter to call on some well known hardcore feminist/SJW for help."Help we made a transgender in game and now people attacked us."
(nevermind the fact that some critics were fair game , clumsy writing , bugs at launch )
No one replied to the ask for help.
But oh people noticed that just fine and took screenshot before the guy realised he made a terrible mistake and delete his tweet.
TL, DR : People were outraged by a transgender character , which is silly.
Beamdog feed them loads and loads of amunition with terrible terrible PR.
I have to wonder what is it with Bioware/Beamdog and awful PR.
They are not the only one with gay/bi , transgender character in games , but they always manage to get in some mini shitstorm over the issue.Must be a canadian thing.
Also they've somehow made it buggier than it was. I got it to crash 5 minutes after creating a new character.
Taking it upon themselves to retcon characters when they've misinterpreted those characters in the first place hasn't gone down well either.
In short they've made several mistakes and then telling people who bought the game that they're wrong is the icing on the cake.
Only got to look at the new characters they've added to realize Ms Scott gets her writing influence from sitcoms! Click Neera - the new wild mage and she says "You rang" Uh yeah, no phones in Faerun or any where else in Forgotten Realms Ms Scott!
It's fun to watch though.
I hope DG hasn't burnt his bridges in BW because he might be wanting has old job back before too long
An even bigger reason for rant is that apparently Beamdog has begun a massive censorship campaing by shutting down (and deleting) negative reviews from their forum and every boards where they have the power to do so. Meanwhile Trent Oster in person jumped into their forum and begged fans for help, asking them to go write positive reviews on Metacritic and GOG in order to raise their score and counterbalance the bash.
While this isn't really something new I am not sure that it's the kind of attitude that will put a good light on them.
For what is worth, I personally don't care too much about alleged agendas of any kind, and wheter or not "someone is trying to shove whatever down my throat". I think that every writer is free to do as he feels, and then is up to me to decide if the product is worth of not, based on the whole writing and not over some specific detail. But when you are a not-still-estabilished company and you are dealing with one of the most beloved franchise in the whole history of RPG you should be very careful with your choices and maybe also avoid the cool attitude towards the fanbase.
An even bigger reason for rant is that apparently Beamdog has begun a massive censorship campaing by shutting down (and deleting) negative reviews from their forum and every boards where they have the power to do so. Meanwhile Trent Oster in person jumped into their forum and begged fans for help, asking them to go write positive reviews on Metacritic and GOG in order to raise their score and counterbalance the bash.
While this isn't really something new I am not sure that it's the kind of attitude that will put a good light on them.
For what is worth, I personally don't care too much about alleged agendas of any kind, and wheter or not "someone is trying to shove whatever down my throat". I think that every writer is free to do as he feels, and then is up to me to decide if the product is worth of not, based on the whole writing and not over some specific detail. But when you are a not-still-estabilished company and you are dealing with one of the most beloved franchise of the whole RPG history you should be very careful with your choices and maybe also avoid the cool attitude towards the fanbase.
Yeah main problem I'm seeing here is...it's Baldur's Gate.Writing never been stellar in the first place , though I heard numerous people said they had a good villain.I've played those games (but never managed to really get into it) and it was mostly tongue in cheek , with your regular special hero defeat the big bad.You don't overthink this , it's popcorn material.
Now the company wants to make some effort and make some stuff more PC , or what have you.Sure fine time have changed , mentality moved on.
But for the love of everything , and the sake of PR , don't go tell the audience who's here for popcorn and fun , here's our social message.It's like feeding spinach to a 4 years old who was told he would get a birthday cake.
For what it's worth , the few actual review (without the SJW , gamergate war nonsense) I've read said the game was solid overall but glitchy.
Only got to look at the new characters they've added to realize Ms Scott gets her writing influence from sitcoms! Click Neera - the new wild mage and she says "You rang" Uh yeah, no phones in Faerun or any where else in Forgotten Realms Ms Scott!
That and gave the Qunari their language (and wrote Sten as well). I think she contributed to various religious stuff in general. Not sure about elves. I know she named the elf Wardens. Mahariel is the angel guarding the gates of heaven. Which is appropriate with the In Uthenera stuff. Tabris is the angel of free will. Appropriate for the freed elves after Fen'Harel.
I wish she was the Lead instead of Weekes... but whatever. I guess she moved on too.
I didn't know about the elf names, that's really interesting. I wonder if she is heavily Catholic or was raised that way.
Yikes! When you mentioned Mary Kirby earlier, I assumed she was number two to Gaider. I looked her up online and noted the stuff about the Chant and the characters she wrote for and was satisfied she would be a good replacement. Now hearing she's gone is worrisome. When DA4 comes along, will it have lost all connection to the earlier games? Weekes has a strong resume but is relatively new to Dragon Age. One wonders what direction he will take things.
She could very well return to DA4 once the new IP is done. I doubt Bioware will hire an entirely new writing team to help Weekes out, they will shuffle people around their teams.
Oh and I should add with Beamdog now well established finesse , they made Minsk said a line mocking the Gamergate movement openly.
That wasn't Minsc: that was Boo whispering the line to Minsc's ears. Don't you get it? Miniature Space Hamster => Boo is a Cultunik, an elite agent of Special Circumstance sent by his Goldlike Communist AI overlord to expand the Space Hippie civilization to the Forgotten Realms: it was a crossover all along!
For what it's worth , the few actual review (without the SJW , gamergate war nonsense) I've read said the game was solid overall but glitchy.
This.. and overall poor writing quality, thought I cannot say if that statement was just an overreaction because of that transexual character or if it's really true that they "missed to grasp the spirit of the original campaign". I don't own the EE of BG games and I don't plan to buy them so I won't be able to see it for my self.
Also, in the original game Xzar talked about eating peoples livers with a nice chianti. Chianti is a place in Italy.
That was clearly a joke, a quote from Hannibal Lecter in "The Silence of the Lamb".
Seems like Beamdog is making a mess of things. I hope some of their recent hires can get the ship righted and focus on making quality products. I was thinking of getting the EE versions of BG and BG2, but the bugs and condescending attitudes of some of the people involved have turned me off.
There were lots of pop culture references in BG and BG2 (pursuant to the thread, it should be noticed that David joined BioWare for BG2 - he was not part of the BG team). BG had that Larry, Darryl, and Darryl joke (taken from the '80s sitcom Newhart). BG2 contained portraits of the characters from the Dungeons & Dragons cartoon on the wall of a shop in Amn.This.. and overall poor writing quality, thought I cannot say if that statement was just an overreaction because of that transexual character or if it's really true that they "missed to grasp the spirit of the original campaign". I don't own the EE of BG games and I don't plan to buy them so I won't be able to see it for my self.
That was clearly a joke, a quote from Hannibal Lecter in "The Silence of the Lamb".
There were lots of pop culture references in BG and BG2 (pursuant to the thread, it should be noticed that David joined BioWare for BG2 - he was not part of the BG team). BG had that Larry, Darryl, and Darryl joke (taken from the '80s sitcom Newhart). BG2 contained portraits of the characters from the Dungeons & Dragons cartoon on the wall of a shop in Amn.
I think that the matter is how, when, and where you deliver a joke... you make a reference in a well received game and people will say that you are a genius, you do the same thing in another situation and they will say that you are trolling them. It's not so easy: try to mimic some of the humour than the original had and they say that you are disrepectful. Don't do that and they will blame you for having brought back a soulness version of the game.
This is why I keep saying that it should be better for everyone if they would just forget about the BG franchise and create their brand new IP.
I think that the matter is how, when, and where you deliver a joke... you make a reference in a well received game and people will say that you are a genius, you do the same thing in another situation and they will say that you are trolling them. It's not so easy: try to mimic some of the humour than the original had and they say that you are disrepectful. Don't do that and they will blame you for having brought back a soulness version of the game.
This is why I keep saying that it should be better for everyone if they would just forget about the BG franchise and create their brand new IP.
I do think it's a bad move to rewrite characters because the writers don't like how they were depicted. Regardless of whether I would agree with their assessment or not, it's not going to please fans to selectively change parts of the existing game. Either do a complete overhaul and brand it as a re-imagined BG, or leave all existing content as is and just add to it. Otherwise it comes across as fanfiction rather than a professional game company's work.
And quite honestly, I didn't follow gamer gate or have any strong opinions on it, but it does seem unprofessional to include a quote discussing it. That's not a pop culture reference, that's a slight against possible consumers of the product. Granted, it's fairly well hidden and not overtly offensive, but again it comes across as petty and unprofessional.
I think they should have simply stated that they decided to flesh out some BG1 companions (nothing wrong with that, imo) rather than "correct" anything about them . I mean, a character like Safana had a handful lines in BG1 and barely any personality. I don't think you can ruin such a character...
True. What I think would be stranger is having Jaheira, a well-established character in BG2, have a personality change in BG EE and then revert back to her original personality in the next game.
I don't really know how they changed her writing, though, so maybe it was done in a seamless way.
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