59 réponses à ce sujet

[nightscrawl]

1) The "trigger point banter" was not a bad system. If people abused it to get banter then let them. It's their game. If they wanna hear all the banter that way, then let them. It took nothing from the game experience to manipulate the banter out of your party.

Did they say this somewhere?

It seems to me that the primary benefit of this new system is because of the semi-open nature of the world, which is different than the two previous games. Because players were bound to spend a lot of time running around in non-linear areas (away from roads, paths, etc), they wanted companion banter to fire in a more natural fashion. If they didn't have this system at all, then players would have spent significant chunks of the game wandering around in total silence**.




** Yes, I know that happened for some anyway, but that was not the intention.

[Gervaise]

If they wanted it to be more natural, then why didn't it occur at all in Val Royeaux?   Honestly it was the one place where you could safely stand around and not get attacked while waiting for dialogue and yet it was the one place it never occurred.   

 

From what people have indicated concerning dialogue, it would seem there were some places where it seemed to trigger more frequently than others.   If this wasn't intention by the Devs then clearly it was some sort of bug.      They said that if you want to encourage dialogue, do something simple like picking elf root.   Is that why we needed so much in the game, because of the link with encouraging your companions to speak?    The problem was this just didn't work.   I walked round and round in circles in some places, just looking for elf root and other herbs, then stopped to admire the scenery, just waiting for someone to say something, but silence.   Then finally got fed up and started to walk towards my next destination, was spied by an enemy and just after, guess what, my companions start talking.   

 

If the timer was 15 minutes that was just too long.    It should have been combat finishes, then 5 minutes until next dialogue, because that would be nicely filled with sorting through loot, picking some more elf root, before moving on.   I just didn't want to spend 15 minutes avoiding all confrontation or moving anywhere significant.   Did the 15 minutes include reading codices?

[Guitar-Hero]

I have only had 3 banter moments in 40 hours of playtime, so yea it kinda sucks

[Arshei]

Why you didn't used Cheat Engine to active the banter every time you press Num 5?

[Banxey]

In the vanilla game I would intentionally never use a mount and always walk everywhere in hopes of getting banter but I only got around 12 in my 60 hour playthrough (not counting the "we should look around" type comments) that combined with the lack of music and scarcity of NPCs made the world feel so dead and empty for me. In  my first playthrough of Trespasser I got I think 3 banters and every time after that I got none aside from the scripted ones (where you click on the glowing things or when the inquisitor's hand tweaks out and the party comments) T_T

 

That's interesting. I used mounts a lot and never had issues with banter. In fact a lot of the time they'd start up as soon as I dismounted, which was annoying because I was usually dismounting in order to run off and attack something. 

[nightscrawl]

If they wanted it to be more natural, then why didn't it occur at all in Val Royeaux?   Honestly it was the one place where you could safely stand around and not get attacked while waiting for dialogue and yet it was the one place it never occurred.   

 

From what people have indicated concerning dialogue, it would seem there were some places where it seemed to trigger more frequently than others.   If this wasn't intention by the Devs then clearly it was some sort of bug.      They said that if you want to encourage dialogue, do something simple like picking elf root.   Is that why we needed so much in the game, because of the link with encouraging your companions to speak?    The problem was this just didn't work.   I walked round and round in circles in some places, just looking for elf root and other herbs, then stopped to admire the scenery, just waiting for someone to say something, but silence.   Then finally got fed up and started to walk towards my next destination, was spied by an enemy and just after, guess what, my companions start talking.   

 

If the timer was 15 minutes that was just too long.    It should have been combat finishes, then 5 minutes until next dialogue, because that would be nicely filled with sorting through loot, picking some more elf root, before moving on.   I just didn't want to spend 15 minutes avoiding all confrontation or moving anywhere significant.   Did the 15 minutes include reading codices?

 

You say that your humor doesn't often come across in your posts, so I can't tell if you're serious about the whole elfroot thing. They don't mean that elfroot itself has a specific impact on banter, it's just something to do while you're wandering around.

 

I agree on Val Royeaux, but that still doesn't take away from the idea of wanting it to be natural on ALL of the other semi-open maps in the game. Hinterlands is really huge and open, and the player can wander all over the place. If trigger points were the only means of triggering banter, many players would miss it because of the structure of the maps, which is why my suggestion would have been to have one or two triggers in addition to the standard DAI method.

 

I do agree on the timer though, and I'm someone who explores every inch of all of the maps just to fill them out.

 

To your question: the timer only goes while you are exploring. It is reset if you enter into a cinematic, change maps, or see the loading screen (going into the Redcliffe tavern or chantry). Looking at menus, or codex, is the same as putting the game on pause, the timer is paused as well. Fast travel within a map has no impact. The only thing I'm not sure of is whether the non-cinematic conversations with NPCs has an impact, such as talking to Horse Master Dennet and so on.

[Riot Inducer]

Why you didn't used Cheat Engine to active the banter every time you press Num 5?

My anti-virus tags it as a virus. I've gotten around similar things in the past but I would rather not have to monkey with my anti-virus settings every time I want to play DA:I. 

[roselavellan]

Well, combat doesn't actually interrupt banter -- though you'll probably miss it unless subtitles are on. And I think your math's off. I make it 150 hours of area travel. 600 banters total, firing four per hour, right?

But, yeah, that still makes the 15 minute timer look inadequate, unless the design goal is to never come anywhere near exhausting the banter supply. 150 hours of travel is way more than even a full-on completionist run will give you.

Combat doesn't reset banter timer, but it does delay it. As do using mounts and travelling within the region. On paper 15 minutes should be a reasonable time between banters, but I found that in practice, it often came up to 20-30 minutes if I was lucky - though usually it was about 1 hour.

I'm aware they didn't want people running out of banter to listen to, but I don't see the problem of having some non-quest-related, randomized, repeatable banter.

[In Exile]

To your question: the timer only goes while you are exploring. It is reset if you enter into a cinematic, change maps, or see the loading screen (going into the Redcliffe tavern or chantry). Looking at menus, or codex, is the same as putting the game on pause, the timer is paused as well. Fast travel within a map has no impact. The only thing I'm not sure of is whether the non-cinematic conversations with NPCs has an impact, such as talking to Horse Master Dennet and so on.

 

I think saving might screw with it as well, doesn't it?

[In Exile]

Combat doesn't reset banter timer, but it does delay it. As do using mounts and travelling within the region. On paper 15 minutes should be a reasonable time between banters, but I found that in practice, it often came up to 20-30 minutes if I was lucky - though usually it was about 1 hour.

I'm aware they didn't want people running out of banter to listen to, but I don't see the problem of having some non-quest-related, randomized, repeatable banter.

And that's the problem. We experience the game in real-time - and that includes all the things that pause or reset the timer. There wouldn't be an issue with it if it just ran for 14:59 minutes, then paused itself until the next acceptable trigger for a banter (i.e., in the wild). 

[Lord Frivolous]

My anti-virus tags it as a virus. I've gotten around similar things in the past but I would rather not have to monkey with my anti-virus settings every time I want to play DA:I.

Plus it sometimes comes with delicious malware from this one Israeli company that highjacks your browser. Moderators from the forums there did not seem to take it seriously even when multiple downloaders complained about it. "No, can't be, not possible, our providers are reliable."

About the banter bug itself, yes it's a feature by now. 300 hours total, heard maybe 30 different ones.

[nightscrawl]

I think saving might screw with it as well, doesn't it?

 

No idea. Perhaps a hard save. I do quick saves all the time, so I don't think that does.

[AlanC9]

If they wanted it to be more natural, then why didn't it occur at all in Val Royeaux? Honestly it was the one place where you could safely stand around and not get attacked while waiting for dialogue and yet it was the one place it never occurred.

That strikes me as a strange way to frame the issue. What's "natural" about standing around waiting for dialogue? And of all places, why Val Royeaux? Except for maybe on the first visit when you're looking for red things and reading plaques, I can't think of a time when you'd spend more than five minutes there outside of a cutscene.

They said that if you want to encourage dialogue, do something simple like picking elf root.

Anyone know where that was said? It's unusual for the devs to be confused about their own mechanics.

Did the 15 minutes include reading codices?

Probably not. Most game events pause on those screens.

[nightscrawl]

The elfroot thing is from this Bioware post. This post also links to the Bioware blog about the DAI banter and music.
 
Among several tips to get the banter going, he suggests:

Explore on foot: Banter will not fire while the player is mounted or in combat, so stop to smell the roses (or pick the elfroot) from time to time.

[AlanC9]

Ah, thanks. So there's no causal relationship being asserted; it's just that picking elfroot, or whatever, won't get in the way of the timer.

I suppose they patched out the combat exception for banter at some point.

[Absafraginlootly]

Two things

 

1) The "trigger point banter" was not a bad system. If people abused it to get banter then let them. It's their game. If they wanna hear all the banter that way, then let them. It took nothing from the game experience to manipulate the banter out of your party.

 

2) The timer is fine too, but on its own it is far too unreliable to make the journey exiting at all.

 

My suggestion has always been to have both. Trigger points in peaceful areas like Crestwood, Val Royeaux, Redcliffe Village, the Crossroads etc. and then the normal timer outside those zones.

 

Taking away the pointless mounts would be great as well. I think mounting either resets or pauses the banter timer. No one used the mounts anyway.

 

Yeah I just didn't bother with mounts most of the time (except in the hissing wastes) because they prevent banter.

 

On the whole there should of been less things that paused or reset the timer.

 

And that's the problem. We experience the game in real-time - and that includes all the things that pause or reset the timer. There wouldn't be an issue with it if it just ran for 14:59 minutes, then paused itself until the next acceptable trigger for a banter (i.e., in the wild). 

 

This sounds good actually.

[Nefla]

That's interesting. I used mounts a lot and never had issues with banter. In fact a lot of the time they'd start up as soon as I dismounted, which was annoying because I was usually dismounting in order to run off and attack something. 

I didn't use mounts because it triggered SO infrequently that I didn't want to miss out even more by not having my party out.

 

There is over five hours of party banter in the game, at most you'll hear maybe 30 seconds of it at a time. If you were doing nothing but running around in areas where party banter can trigger and the timer was working perfectly and you never got accidentally interrupted due to combat or w/e it would still take you somewhere in the realm of 300 hours to hear half of it. So yes, 15 minutes is far too long for that timer.

Man...every 15 minutes sounds fantastic to me! I had it once every 3-6 hours (except this one time in a random cave I got like 3 in a 20 minute span between Cassandra and Iron Bull so that cave got me about 1/4 of my total banter in that playthrough >_<)

[KaiserShep]

That strikes me as a strange way to frame the issue. What's "natural" about standing around waiting for dialogue? And of all places, why Val Royeaux? Except for maybe on the first visit when you're looking for red things and reading plaques, I can't think of a time when you'd spend more than five minutes there outside of a cutscene.

 

It couldn't hurt to just have dialogue function there as it does everywhere else though, or even use the trigger point system, since there's not a whole lot of space to really roam about there anyway (I'm certain that DA:I still uses this to some extent, as companions will comment on something in the environment at a specific location). The way I see it, the more places banter can be had, the better, especially considering just how much banter there really is. 

[Kantr]

My anti-virus tags it as a virus. I've gotten around similar things in the past but I would rather not have to monkey with my anti-virus settings every time I want to play DA:I. 

Can't you whitelist it in the settings?

[AlanC9]

It couldn't hurt to just have dialogue function there as it does everywhere else though, or even use the trigger point system, since there's not a whole lot of space to really roam about there anyway (I'm certain that DA:I still uses this to some extent, as companions will comment on something in the environment at a specific location). The way I see it, the more places banter can be had, the better, especially considering just how much banter there really is.

Sure. My point was just that it's a confused way to think about the design intent, which is pretty obviously that banter's supposed to fire in places where there's a few minutes without anything else to be listening to and only mechanical things to do. Neither of these is true for Val Royeaux, which has a bunch of NPC dialogue to hear without adding banters, and where there's no reason to be in the area long enough for the timer to run out even if it was working.

Speaking of which.... we are sure that the timer really doesn't work there?

[nightscrawl]

^ Yes, they said so in this post about banter and music:
 

There are also areas where this kind of banter will not fire at all. These include Skyhold, Haven, and Val Royeaux.

[rapscallioness]

It was awful. The first few PT's of DAI, I got nothing but silence. No banter. No music. The only convo I heard was back at SkyHold.

 

Just hours of friggin death march silence.

 

Then it got better for a bit. It was like the Heaven's opened. Then it stopped getting better and started getting worse again. Now they just kind of blurt out completely random, nonsensical stuff like they have Tourette's Syndrome. And nobody responds to anything. So I guess the very random bits are supposed to be location related banter.

 

They put alot of good stuff into the banter's. I did not get to hear any of it in my original PT's. Idk why it did not work, and I don't care. All I know is that it didn't work. And that's some bs.

[BraveVesperia]

I don't mind the timer idea, so long as there is some way to manually trigger it too. Not even just 'banter points'. I'm pretty sure passing through the Eluvian for the final time in Trespasser counts as a 'banter point', because it's supposed to trigger some final party comments from the companions to the Inquisitor. But mine is bugged and will not be fixed now. I wouldn't even know there was supposed to be banter there, if not for BSN.

 

I liked having the 'click on glowing thing to hear banter' in Trespasser, simply because it feels like a guarantee of getting banter. Even if it is bugged (like one of human-path Cole's), you still know exactly what you're missing.

[DAJB]

I'm not sure if I should mention this, but there's a clip on Youtube which compiles all the party banter (over five hours' worth!)

 

If you're really worried about missing out on the banter, try playing the game with that clip playing at the same time. That way nothing fails to trigger and you get to hear everything, including banter from those companions you never actually take out (yeah, we all have one or two!)

 

Obviously the banter won't be specific to the last mission you played (as it's supposed to be), but I'd suggest it's worth doing for a second or third playthrough.

[hoechlbear]

In the Hinterlands I actually got quite a few banter with Cass, Solas and Varric in the beginning, but as the game progressed and I explored the other maps, it was nothing but silence, even with all the different party combinations. I also got the annoying situation where companions would start talking just as we were about to enter a fight. They really need to work on that, so banter doesn't trigger when there's enemies around. 

 

Also, I really like the idea of the interactive banter, I feel like this could be a great way to develop our relationship with the companions. Too bad I only got it once. Hopefully DA4 will improve on this too.