359 réponses à ce sujet

[diaspora2k5]

I feel like DAO should probably not be used as an example for Dark Fantasy because it... really isn't; it was as much dark fantasy as spooky Lavender Town was in Pokemon Red/Blue.

[o Ventus]

Cole is a Compassion Spirit who barely reacts like he's ever been human and you have to dig to get to that story.

Bull also touts how much he LOVES the Qun and treats re-education like treatment for PTSD.

 

Varric is made the Viscount of Kirkwall because it's so awesome.

 

Solas wants to return to that time period toot sweet.

 

If by "dig" you mean "read a little bit", then sure. I hope you packed a shovel.

 

Yeah, what Bull espouses about the Qun amounts to propaganda. I'm just going to assume you know what that is and why your point doesn't hold that much water. I'll elaborate more if you so desire.

 

Varric is Viscount because he funded reconstruction. What part of this screams "because it's so awesome" to you? 

 

Yeah, and there are real-world people who believe that the 40's and 50's (read: in the middle of an international war and before basic commodities like the polio vaccine) were legitimately better eras to live in than the modern day. It doesn't make them right.

[Arshei]

I feel like DAO should probably not be used as an example for Dark Fantasy because it... really isn't; it was as much dark fantasy as spooky Lavender Town was in Pokemon Red/Blue.

 

Sorry but I was pretty shitted in the Deep Roads with the big monster with 10 boobs.

[Ashagar]

There is also old book series like the black company and the original run of the thieves' world anthology both of which are far darker than game of thrones could ever hope to be.

[PhroXenGold]

There is also old book series like the black company and the original run of the thieves' world anthology both of which are far darker than game of thrones could ever hope to be.

 

If you want really dark, ignore fantasy and look at history....

[o Ventus]

Sorry but I was pretty shitted in the Deep Roads with the big monster with 10 boobs.

 

Which are created by the darkspawn forcing women of other races to take part in cannibalism, no less.

[Arshei]

Which are created by the darkspawn forcing women of other races to take part in cannibalism, no less.

 

And they were raped

[TheKomandorShepard]

"Andruil put on armor made of the Void, and all forgot her true face. She made weapons of darkness, and plague ate her lands."

Assuming you think that's not Red Lyrium, there's the fact that Varric discovered the Red Lyrium Idol in the Ancient Thaig which was older than the Imperium. Older than Tevinter == older than the Blight (the scourges led by Archdemons).

 

I mean, this series has dropped a lot of hints about how old the Taint really is, there were more in the Deep Roads section of Trespasser I think and in The Descent.

 

We don't know if he talks about taint or red lyrium, even if so it were times before Thedas existed and there is nothing that would suggest that there was darkspawn or taint in Thedas before magisters brought it from black city.

 

How old Thaig was doesn't matter because dwarves were hanging out in that Thaig after first blight started as presence of golems in Thaig shows,Idol could have been created at any moment after first blight.   .

[Ashagar]

If you want really dark, ignore fantasy and look at history....

 

Having studied history as a hobby I am aware, reading of the major events of the centuries leading up to the fall of the western roman empire and to the rise of Charlesmange's empire tends to read like a horror story from the roman/european viewpoint at times, darker than anything a fantasy or horror writer could come up with but also often mixed in with things lighter than anytihng a horror or dark fantasy writer would dare put in their books.

[PhroXenGold]

Having studied history as a hobby I am aware, reading of the major events of the centuries leading up to the fall of the western roman empire and to the rise of Charlesmange's empire tends to read like a horror story from the roman/european viewpoint at times, darker than anything a fantasy or horror writer could come up with but also often mixed in with things lighter than anytihng a horror or dark fantasy writer would dare put in their books.

 

Yeah, there are plenty of lighter, or in some case just downright odd things that happened. Much of history probably wouldn't make for a great story as you wouldn't even be able to consider it plausible

 

One subject I've been reading a bit on recently is the Taiping Rebellion, and at times it almost seems comical - a failed bureaucrat has a weird dream that convinces him that he's God's younger son (i.e. Jesus' brother). He then goes on to start a civil war that rips the world's most populous country apart for more than a decade, making the concurrent events in America seem like a minor scuffle and leaving a bare minimum of 20 million dead.

 

There are though some events and periods that blow "dark fantasy" out of the water both in terms of the darkness, and of the characters and stories. The Thirty Years War would be a good example. Politics, religion and greed combine to set up a conflict of ridiculous depth and complexity, with epic battles, turncoats and backstabbers, warrior kings, manipulative cardinals and even a good old defenestration. And of course about a third of the population of Germany dead. Really makes people like GRR Martin look small time.

[AFA]

Yeah, there are plenty of lighter, or in some case just downright odd things that happened. Much of history probably wouldn't make for a great story as you wouldn't even be able to consider it plausible

 

One subject I've been reading a bit on recently is the Taiping Rebellion, and at times it almost seems comical - a failed bureaucrat has a weird dream that convinces him that he's God's younger son (i.e. Jesus' brother). He then goes on to start a civil war that rips the world's most populous country apart for more than a decade, making the concurrent events in America seem like a minor scuffle and leaving a bare minimum of 20 million dead.

 

There are though some events and periods that blow "dark fantasy" out of the water both in terms of the darkness, and of the characters and stories. The Thirty Years War would be a good example. Politics, religion and greed combine to set up a conflict of ridiculous depth and complexity, with epic battles, turncoats and backstabbers, warrior kings, manipulative cardinals and even a good old defenestration. And of course about a third of the population of Germany dead. Really makes people like GRR Martin look small time.

 

You also have the original chosen of Andraste, Boudica, who horribly sacrificed the women, children, and elderly of ancient London to the glory of her divine patron. The Old Gods of Europe were A-holes

[o Ventus]

Taiping Rebellion

 

I read this as Taping Rebellion, like one of Santa's elves develops this new method of sealing wrapped-up presents with a new kind of tape, but Santa won't have none of it because it would undermine the rules that he's laid out for thousands of years, so he kills the elf that invented the new technique, thus sparking a long and bloody civil war in the North Pole that lasted for years, pitting neighbor against neighbor and brother against brother.

[Ashagar]

Yeah, there are plenty of lighter, or in some case just downright odd things that happened. Much of history probably wouldn't make for a great story as you wouldn't even be able to consider it plausible

 

One subject I've been reading a bit on recently is the Taiping Rebellion, and at times it almost seems comical - a failed bureaucrat has a weird dream that convinces him that he's God's younger son (i.e. Jesus' brother). He then goes on to start a civil war that rips the world's most populous country apart for more than a decade, making the concurrent events in America seem like a minor scuffle and leaving a bare minimum of 20 million dead.

 

There are though some events and periods that blow "dark fantasy" out of the water both in terms of the darkness, and of the characters and stories. The Thirty Years War would be a good example. Politics, religion and greed combine to set up a conflict of ridiculous depth and complexity, with epic battles, turncoats and backstabbers, warrior kings, manipulative cardinals and even a good old defenestration. And of course about a third of the population of Germany dead. Really makes people like GRR Martin look small time.

 

On a lighter note a young Theodore Roosevelt when he was commissioner of the New York City police used to go around in a honest to goodness cape and jump out of the shadows at any officer he caught not doing their jobs to keep them on their toes and ran prehaps the least corrupt police force in New York City history which admittedly started the progress of his career of being kicked up stairs because of being too competent, popular and anti-corruption for the taste of the New York machine.

[Arshei]

Maybe the game have dark scenarios, like the mayor in Crestwood who killed everyone, children included, to "don't spread the blight", I think we just need to make it more dramatic and a lot less boring. or in Emprise du lion, the mayor let the templars take people to make them slaves. The only allusion I found about rape was when Cole says he was being abused by templars.

[Goatmanwashere]

In response to the OP: I agree.

 

Dragon Age: Inquisition was far less Dark Fantasy than Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age II, and a big part of that was the exclusion of the gritty day-to-day horros of things like the Mage-Templar War or the Orlesian Civil War which could've given the normal people's look on how war makes everyones life go to ****. Now I'm not saying Inquisition was overly cheery. There were some harrowing moments and many horrors, whether it's seeing the Gray Wardens killing loads of their own to summon demons or seeing what the future would look like if the Inquisitor and Dorian would suddenly disappear. But overall, it's far closer to HIgh Fantasy or something like that.

 

Personally I prefer the Dark Fantasy aspect (I also prefer Low Fantasy over High Fantasy, but that's rather irrelevant for Dragon Age).

[PhroXenGold]

You also have the original chosen of Andraste, Boudica, who horribly sacrificed the women, children, and elderly of ancient London to the glory of her divine patron. The Old Gods of Europe were A-holes

 

Dunno why you're limiting yourself to European gods there. From the Aztec pantheon demanding human sacrifices to the genocide of the Old Testament, gods the world over were a-holes.

[Witch Cocktor]

Maybe the game have dark scenarios, like the mayor in Crestwood who killed everyone, children included, to "don't spread the blight", I think we just need to make it more dramatic and a lot less boring. or in Emprise du lion, the mayor let the templars take people to make them slaves. The only allusion I found about rape was when Cole says he was being abused by templars.

Rape is just effortless shock value though. There needs to be more to dark fantasy than just rape, cannibalism and killing innocent people. 

[Arshei]

Rape is just effortless shock value though. There needs to be more to dark fantasy than just rape, cannibalism and killing innocent people. 

 

We need more human sacrifices and drink the blood of our enemys

[Witch Cocktor]

We need more human sacrifices and drink the blood of our enemys

That's boring. We need more mindfuck, psychological diseases, genetical engineering (through blood magic?), disgusting primal cult activity, supernatural unexplainable phenomenon!

[Willowhugger]

See, but none of this makes sense. It's not 'dark' in the sense that it's dealing with 'mature' or 'gritty' themes... it's just pulpy, edgy melodrama. I would expect that kind of thing from an abortion like Fable, not Dragon Age. 

 

I don't see why you don't think it makes sense unless you believe loving good-guy/girl Hawke is the only one which makes sense.

[Al Foley]

You should probably get into the why of that, so we know what you two are arguing about. Maybe what you hated isn't what he liked?

I will if anyone really is curious. 

[Willowhugger]

1.Yep, but doesn't change she was just unlucky to become victim of chevalier.

 

2.Fenris information is viable as he still remembers everything after tattoos and he isn't an outsider, in fact he has great deal information about how things work in tevinter as he managed to see how things are among nobility.Not rly every information we have points that majority if not almost all magisters are blood mages ,Fenris makes it clear that if you don't reach for blood magic you pretty much die from hands of other magisters that do , plus we know that black divine despite once hated blood magic turned blood mage as well.LoL , did you just use Halward that tried to use blood magic when convenient or Alexius that joined blood mages cultists , as examples of examplar tevinters that are anti-blood mages?  

 

3.Actually nope , World of thedas says that quanri are most technologically advanced except dwarves , Tevinter is pretty much magic focused not technology focused.

 

4.And where you have existance of red lyrium before the blight?

 

5.Michael had elven ancestry , but still he managed to become chevalier and as i said you can become noble but obviously it quite hard. 

 

6.That because they created grey wardens (as pretty much they were only country around) doesn't mean they are in every blight , grey wardens are now separate organization that has nothing to do with tevinter.

 

1. Unlucky as supported by the state.

 

2. Yes, I did. They did blood magic because of exceptional circumstances not because it's something they approve of but were driven to do. If you're implying Tevinter approves of blood magic you need to show it's not an extreme measure.

 

3. The benefits of magic effectively create the same level but sure, if you like.

 

4. Red Lyrium exists in the Primeval Thaig that predates the Blight. It also COMES from the Primaval Thaig which means the Blight Taint exists before Dumat was freed.

 

5. Okay, you can do better than that. Michel is LYING about his backstory. No one knows he has elven ancestry and he FAkED his background with the help of a noble and corrupt geneologists. This is like putting an imposter on the throne and saying a commoner can rise to become Emperor of Orlais. It doesn't work like that.

 

6. Except, of course, Tevinter has its own Grey Wardens and works with them as all sane people do.

[Willowhugger]

Yeah, there are plenty of lighter, or in some case just downright odd things that happened. Much of history probably wouldn't make for a great story as you wouldn't even be able to consider it plausible

 

One subject I've been reading a bit on recently is the Taiping Rebellion, and at times it almost seems comical - a failed bureaucrat has a weird dream that convinces him that he's God's younger son (i.e. Jesus' brother). He then goes on to start a civil war that rips the world's most populous country apart for more than a decade, making the concurrent events in America seem like a minor scuffle and leaving a bare minimum of 20 million dead.

 

There are though some events and periods that blow "dark fantasy" out of the water both in terms of the darkness, and of the characters and stories. The Thirty Years War would be a good example. Politics, religion and greed combine to set up a conflict of ridiculous depth and complexity, with epic battles, turncoats and backstabbers, warrior kings, manipulative cardinals and even a good old defenestration. And of course about a third of the population of Germany dead. Really makes people like GRR Martin look small time.

 

Yeah, ironically, ridiculously dark and sad things make the game more believable.

Because as a historian, history is dark and sad.

Heroism doesn't really shine very well unless it's contrasted against the dark.

[AFA]

Maybe the game have dark scenarios, like the mayor in Crestwood who killed everyone, children included, to "don't spread the blight", I think we just need to make it more dramatic and a lot less boring. or in Emprise du lion, the mayor let the templars take people to make them slaves. The only allusion I found about rape was when Cole says he was being abused by templars.

 

I thought those two storylines worked well, since they were very grey. The mayor of Crestwood made the right decision in the situation, since a giant swarm of infected refugees would soon turn into a swarm of ghouls. Emprise du Lion tried making the best of a big situation, it just kept going sideways.

 

Rape can certainly be used for pointless shock value, but it is an all too real occurrence in war, especially in the Middle Ages. Berserk and the film that inspired it, Flesh + Blood, show how common it was, especially when it involved free companies. The Free Men of the Dales seem to be based on free companies and the Jacquerie of the 100 Years War. They did such lovely things as killing noblemen, gangraping their wives and daughters, then feeding them the cooked flesh of their dead husband/father.

 

Bull's Chargers being do-gooders for hire rather than what mercs in that era were was kind of a missed opportunity. Scrap the Blackwall persona, and have Rainer (spelling?) run an outfit of murderers, war criminals, and rapists. They make a valuable asset to the Inquistion, but are monsters themselves. 

[AFA]

That's boring. We need more mindfuck, psychological diseases, genetical engineering (through blood magic?), disgusting primal cult activity, supernatural unexplainable phenomenon!

 

The male blood mage equivalent of Morinth would have made for an interesting companion. "Recruit the evil cult leader for the Inquisition." I can imagine the romance mods that would lead to.