359 réponses à ce sujet

[Willowhugger]

Well, so long as we're establishing that it's evil.

 

You can't trust Bethany.

She was a Loyalist!

Only by siding wiith the Templars and massacring everyone can you incite the Mages!

 

True terrorism in action!



On a related note, I think the biggest problem with the game is the OMNICIDAL NEUTRAL option actually is the default choice. You don't side with the Mages or Templars as you end up killing the leaders of both factions as well as copious members of both. How interesting would it have been to divide the single pathway where you kill Orsino and Meredith into a Mages (Meredith), Templars (Orsino), or Kirkwall (both) option?

 

One could be a  evil overlord, mage lord, vile crime lord or dark knight and still love their family though and in fact love of family can cause such characters to do truely horrific things in the name of family or to keep a family member alive.

 

I remember in one short story for instance a mage who used magic to suck the life out of people to keep their child alive in spite of the suffering it caused and the child begging to die because they couldn't bare to lose them.

No one's saying you can't.

Just look at Alexius and his father.

However, there's nothing wrong with a Hawke who resents and hates his mage-sympathizing family for forcing him to be an outcast from privileged and wealthy Andrastrian society.

 

It's just completely at odds with the way MOST Hawkes are played.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Killing someone for being suspect doesn't strike me as very rational, but I guess it's par for the course.

 

Because only daft fools kill Bethany.

 

Killing someone who is suspected of being blood mage or an abomnation (ie extreme danger to society or even world) is rational, that is whole point of RoA.

 

 

Hah, you have to love the circle this goes in (pardon the pun). Bethany surrenders peacefully to Cullen when she's discovered and becomes a model mage within the Circle and is permitted to each children, but then that Circle turns out to be corrupt and Bethany is guilty of that too, so she's guilty if she stays out of the corrupt circle, and is branded a maleficar without cause beyond being forcibly inducted into said corrupt circle. She can't win.

 

Your argument doesn't make sense. That Bethany surrendered when already caught doesn't change fact she already shown she is perfectly fine to disregard chantry law and teachings when convenient, thus situation perfectly shows that going regularly to the chantry. 

 

As for argument of being guilty, it isn't about being guilty or not it is about that she is a threat and RoA exist to eliminate threat when situation gets out of control.

[KaiserShep]

Then it really comes down to whether or not Hawke has just cause to believe that Bethany presents a great enough risk to warrant execution, despite showing zero aggression. I suppose it's irrelevant though, since Meredith had no grounds to invoke the Right, 'cause she was a daft fool, just like Bethany-killing Hawke. 

[The Hierophant]

It had some instances, and tidbits of lore that seemed like dark fantasy, but it's mostly Joss Whedonish high fantasy in tone.

[KaiserShep]

It had some instances, and tidbits of lore that seemed like dark fantasy, but it's mostly Joss Whedonish high fantasy in tone.

 

I think I kind of prefer it that way. All this heavy-dosed seriousness is for the birds. 

[Arshei]

Killing someone who is suspected of being blood mage or an abomnation (ie extreme danger to society or even world) is rational, that is whole point of RoA.

 

 

 

Your argument doesn't make sense. That Bethany surrendered when already caught doesn't change fact she already shown she is perfectly fine to disregard chantry law and teachings when convenient, thus situation perfectly shows that going regularly to the chantry. 

 

As for argument of being guilty, it isn't about being guilty or not it is about that she is a threat and RoA exist to eliminate threat when situation gets out of control.

 

Agreed, I have to add too that we should kill everyone who watch Naruto, they are going to destroy the world in the future with their...  otaku powers?

Totally rational ♥

[TheKomandorShepard]

Then it really comes down to whether or not Hawke has just cause to believe that Bethany presents a great enough risk to warrant execution, despite showing zero aggression. I suppose it's irrelevant though, since Meredith had no grounds to invoke the Right, 'cause she was a daft fool, just like Bethany-killing Hawke. 

 

Once again , not being aggressive doesn't equatate not being blood mage , she was hanging out with blood mages.RoA is brutal yet effective measure to destroy threat that went out of control (i said that already) , even if you aren't blood mage or an abomnation you can't prove it and by that you stay a threat.Meredith had plenty grounds to invoke the Right as i said circle was infested with blood mages from the bottom to the top.

 

 

Agreed, I have to add too that we should kill everyone who watch Naruto, they are going to destroy the world in the future with their...  otaku powers?

Totally rational ♥

Let's see, Mages power exist in-universe and is threat to world safety, while people that watch Naruto don't have any power or capability to cause more harm than any other normal person. Great comparison my friend, i think next time you should compare nuclear bomb to a knife and say that means of dealing with them should be the same.  

[AresKeith]

Only if you don't think Evil Hawke is a valid playstyle.

Do you want to play someone who resents the fact your family has decided to become apostates? Do you hate the mages? Do you want to just get rid of that STONE around your neck which is the filthy magicians of your family and their apostate legacy? Do you just feel like the Grey Warden who had Alistair executed to secure Anora's rule?

At the end of the day, the only regret Evil Hawke has about Bethany's death is that he didn't do it himself.

Bethany was just the first of his....Murder Knife Solution.

There's "evil" Hawke and then there's evil for the sake of being dark

[BSpud]

Killing someone who is suspected of being blood mage or an abomnation (ie extreme danger to society or even world) is rational, that is whole point of RoA.

 

Killing someone based on suspicion or guilt by association alone, without actual evidence, is literally the exact opposite of rational.

[straykat]

The Warden is the best potential "evil" character if you want to play it, but at the same time, there's no delivery on their story. They're treated the same no matter what. What's the point of Choices without Consequences.. or even just superficial Reaction?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Killing someone based on suspicion or guilt by association alone, without actual evidence, is literally the exact opposite of rational.

 

Once again, not if suspect threatens world safety, then killing suspect is logical option as risk of keeping suspect alive overshadows profit significantly.  

[BSpud]

WTF? There is exactly ZERO evidence that Bethany threatens "world safety."

[TheKomandorShepard]

WTF? There is exactly ZERO evidence that Bethany threatens "world safety."

There is evidence , she is a mage and thus is dangerous by mere fact of being mage and there was good chance she could be blood mage as circle was infested with blood mages and extremely corrupted mages. Now , why i should risk lives of countless people she may destroy just to save her (1 life) ?

[straykat]

And here I thought Carver was being a douche.

 

 

That's the only thing that's interesting about this Hawke. That he manages to actually be dumber than Carver. But I wouldn't call it evil.

[Willowhugger]

There is evidence , she is a mage and thus is dangerous by mere fact of being mage and there was good chance she could be blood mage as circle was infested with blood mages and extremely corrupted mages. Now , why i should risk lives of countless people she may destroy just to save her (1 life) ?

 

Because humanity is a disease and the only cure for this disease is MUTANTS MAGES!

-Mageneto

[Willowhugger]

There's "evil" Hawke and then there's evil for the sake of being dark

 

Do you think it's the latter?

The entire game tried to force you into caring about your family when you might want to roleplay them hating their disgusting apostate family.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Because humanity is a disease and the only cure for this disease is MUTANTS MAGES!

-Mageneto

You are right in a way, because mages will get rid of humanity if left alone by blowing world up.

[straykat]

Do you think it's the latter?

The entire game tried to force you into caring about your family when you might want to roleplay them hating their disgusting apostate family.

 

You could roleplay that way... but like I said, it's not evil.. or dark. It's almost a comedy.

 

It's not even Chantry teaching to hate mages.

[BSpud]

There is evidence , she is a mage and thus is dangerous by mere fact of being mage and there was good chance she could be blood mage as circle was infested with blood mages and extremely corrupted mages. Now , why i should risk lives of countless people she may destroy just to save her (1 life) ?

 

That is not evidence. Is this a language barrier thing? You literally have no understanding of what evidence or rationality means. Your justifications for killing her are all based on basic errors of reasoning.

[rapscallioness]

And here I thought Carver was being a douche.

 

 

That's the only thing that's interesting about this Hawke. That he manages to actually be dumber than Carver. But I wouldn't call it evil.

 

I tried to play a mage Hawke that sided with the Templars in the end. For science. Carver showed up....and proceeded to curse me out!

 

He was like , "I cannot believe you are siding with that B!tch!"

[straykat]

I tried to play a mage Hawke that sided with the Templars in the end. For science. Carver showed up....and proceeded to curse me out!

 

He was like , "I cannot believe you are siding with that B!tch!"

 

Really? lol. Never tried that.

 

I did side with them once, but I think he was a Warden. I just didn't like it because Hawke became Viscount.. and now I found out Gaider said that was a mistake too.

[Arvaarad]

There's also, potentially, the option that Hawke is terrified of Meredith.

 

Hawke doesn't know they're the protagonist. Hawke doesn't know they'll win. Hawke doesn't know if they can protect Bethany, even assuming that they do win. Hawke faces a whole constellation of uncertainty that we, the players lounging safely on our couch or desk chair, don't have to consider.

 

The only certainty in Hawke's life is that they're standing next to a paranoid lunatic with formal training, a huge sword, and pristine, well-maintained armor (not armor found wedged under filthy rags in a Darktown barrel). And said paranoid lunatic's army.

 

Sacrificing your sister to save your own hide is obviously not heroic. But I wouldn't say it's outright muahahaha evil. People do regrettable stuff when they're scared out of their minds. And Meredith makes it easy - she doesn't make Hawke strike the killing blow. All the Hawke has to do is not stop her. Historically, that's a pretty reliable way to get ordinary people to allow evil to happen.

 

Ditto for siding with the templars as an apostate, though that's even easier to justify. If you don't know that you'll win, your best chance at survival may be sucking up to the people who will, not siding with the rebels. It ain't heroic, but people aren't always trying to be heroes. Maker knows Hawke deals with enough crap, even without willingly throwing themselves on the pyre.

[straykat]

There's also, potentially, the option that Hawke is terrified of Meredith.

 

Hawke doesn't know they're the protagonist. Hawke doesn't know they'll win. Hawke doesn't know if they can protect Bethany, even assuming that they do win. Hawke faces a whole constellation of uncertainty that we, the players lounging safely on our couch or desk chair, don't have to consider.

 

The only certainty in Hawke's life is that they're standing next to a paranoid lunatic with formal training, a huge sword, and pristine, well-maintained armor (not armor found wedged under filthy rags in a Darktown barrel). And said paranoid lunatic's army.

 

Sacrificing your sister to save your own hide is obviously not heroic. But I wouldn't say it's outright muahahaha evil. People do regrettable stuff when they're scared out of their minds. And Meredith makes it easy - she doesn't make Hawke strike the killing blow. All the Hawke has to do is not stop her. Historically, that's a pretty reliable way to get ordinary people to allow evil to happen.

 

Ditto for siding with the templars as an apostate, though that's even easier to justify. If you don't know that you'll win, your best chance at survival may be sucking up to the people who will, not siding with the rebels. It ain't heroic, but people aren't always trying to be heroes. Maker knows Hawke deals with enough crap, even without willingly throwing themselves on the pyre.

 

That's just like a Qunari fan. Relegating everyone else as frail idiots without any "certainity".

[o Ventus]

It's weird when Sera is the only one acting like she grew up in a hellhole.

 

Cole inhabits the body of a mage who starved to death in the White Spire. Bull grew up with the Qun and was so shaken by what he's seen on Seheron that he willingly went and got himself re-educated to try and move past it. Varric is from Kirkwall. Solas is from a time when civil war and slavery were commonplace.

 

In what way is Sera the only one from a hell hole?

[TheKomandorShepard]

You could roleplay that way... but like I said, it's not evil.. or dark. It's almost a comedy.

 

It's not even Chantry teaching to hate mages.

 

Eee , you couldn't as Willow said Hawke is forced to care about his family

 

That is not evidence. Is this a language barrier thing? You literally have no understanding of what evidence or rationality means. Your justifications for killing her are all based on basic errors of reasoning.

That is evidence, that you fail to notice it and ignore facts is a problem here. Question is simple are mages dangerous and pose threat to world/society safety, answer is simple yes. So basically we deal with fact that mages pose threat to society and evidence of that is nature of being mage. So no ,my justification of killing her is that she is dangerous and saving her life (1 life) isn't worth risking life of countless people. 

.