83 réponses à ce sujet

[Addictress]

Bartrand merely touched an idol for a while and became a raving lunatic who heard the song. But the companions in future Redcliffe are mentally sound, with red lyrium actually growing out of them.

I am disappoint.

[ArcaneEsper]

Plot convenience at it's best.

[Arshei]

Don't say that here!, the fanboys are going to attack you with every excuse they can found.

 

They are never going to accept Dragon age isn't perfect.

[In Exile]

They are pretty insane - but that's more the passage of time. 

 

But the idol was processed red lyrium. They did something to it to make it an idol - remember, Meredith didnt' just mutate into a red lyrium beast like red templars. She was slowly driven mad, but gained powers. 

 

I think that's the explanation. It's a special kind of red lyrium. 

[The Baconer]

Shouldn't the mages also be ****ing dead? Convenience. 

[Xerrai]

I'd say plot convienance is at its core. I literally need no other reason.

 

But you want a better reason, I think its more along the lines of how Sheperd of Mass Effect has a crew thats basically willing to do die or some other crazy sh** for him/her: the main character (the Inquisitor) inspired them. They don't even have to like him/her, but they were more or less shaped by their experience with the Inquisitor enough that they developed the personal character to not so easily succumb to red lyrium.

[thats1evildude]

The answer is that In Hushed Whispers is a lot of nonsense and Champions of the Just is infinitely better, so you should side with the templars.

[Arshei]

The answer is that In Hushed Whispers is a lot of nonsense and Champions of the Just is infinitely better, so you should side with the templars.

 

Perhaps, but is a lot more interesting travel in time that fight with a simple demon. Besides the fact that every templar follows blindly his superior.

[thats1evildude]

A battle at the centre of the mind with a demon after your very identity is way more interesting and personal than stinky time travel full of plot holes.

Also, Champions showcases why templars are awesome and nets you way better war table missions if Barris lives.

[Arvaarad]

I wouldn't say they're 100% mentally sound, they come off as more jittery and irritable than usual. But... that's probably due to the isolation and a dead person showing up at their door. 

 

Regardless, it's questionable to assume that symptoms of red lyrium = symptoms of lyrium + symptoms of blight.

 

In many cases we see that the symptoms are stronger, but there's evidence that some symptoms are weaker. Lyrium is alive, after all, and being blighted may sicken* the lyrium in addition to sickening the host. That accounts for why mages can survive longer when exposed, and why Dagna says "don't touch it long" instead of "don't touch it at all." Hawke touches the red lyrium too, for about the same amount of time as Bartrand does before he gets symptoms. It even glows when Hawke picks it up, just like it glows when Bartrand holds it. So even in DA2, there's a precedent for different levels of susceptibility.

 

It's heavily implied that susceptibility has more to do with existing negative character traits, like greed or paranoia, and isn't strongly tied to lyrium resistance. The games keep showing dwarves and templars falling ill, and they'd normally have the highest resistance to pure lyrium.

 

 

* but if it's weaker, why do people become so powerful on red lyrium? Blight magic. Red templar abilities don't become stronger, they gain new ones. Unless I missed the Animate Statues and Shoot Lyrium Crystals abilities in the templar tree, in which case I need to roll a templar protag immediately.

[Knight of Dane]

Perhaps, but is a lot more interesting travel in time that fight with a simple demon. Besides the fact that every templar follows blindly his superior.

 

Nah, time travel destroys all stories ever.

[In Exile]

The answer is that In Hushed Whispers is a lot of nonsense and Champions of the Just is infinitely better, so you should side with the templars.

 

Honestly, I don't get where that comes from. Champions of the Just isn't really that great of a quest. In Hushed Whispers is stupid with the time travel point, but I just don't see the supposed greatness of Champions of the Just. What am I supposedly missing?

[Knight of Dane]

Honestly, I don't get where that comes from. Champions of the Just isn't really that great of a quest. In Hushed Whispers is stupid with the time travel point, but I just don't see the supposed greatness of Champions of the Just. What am I supposedly missing?

 

Barris

[In Exile]

Barris

 

Fair, he's a cool character, but I'm not sure how that makes the quest good. 

[AresKeith]

Fair, he's a cool character, but I'm not sure how that makes the quest good.

IMO, I found Envy a better antagonist than Alexius

[thats1evildude]

Barris>Fiona.

Envy boss fight>Alexius boss fight.

Envy's invasion feels more personal than Inquisitor being pulled into bad future by accident.

IHW full of plot holes.

Templars helping to fight Envy>mages doing nothing (except whining).

Better horror elements in CotJ.

And as you said, time travel is bad and anyone who likes it should feel bad.

[BansheeOwnage]

Shouldn't the mages also be ****ing dead? Convenience. 

Heh, don't even get me started on The Descent. Lyrium. Everywhere. Raw. Unprocessed.

 

And yet, no dead mages in my party. Not even any migraines or anything. I am very disappoint. But then again I was pretty disappointed with Descent generally.

[BansheeOwnage]

Barris>Fiona.

Envy boss fight>Alexius boss fight.

Templars helping to fight Envy>mages doing nothing (except whining).

Better horror elements in CotJ.

And as you said, time travel is bad and anyone who likes it should feel bad.

Also awesome Cole introduction! I like recruiting the mages though. And Dorian. It's a though one.

[thats1evildude]

And the better Cole intro, yes.

[GoldenGail3]

Plot Armor!

[In Exile]

Barris>Fiona.

Envy boss fight>Alexius boss fight.

Envy's invasion feels more personal than Inquisitor being pulled into bad future by accident.

IHW full of plot holes.

Templars helping to fight Envy>mages doing nothing (except whining).

Better horror elements in CotJ.

And as you said, time travel is bad and anyone who likes it should feel bad.

 

Champions has just as many plot holes regarding the templars, including but not limited to how they could miss a demon taking them over, the whole red lyrium bit, all of their officers being comically an corruptly evil, etc. And I can't agree that the Fade feels any more personal. It's a cool concept, but it's as alien as the bad future. I think both quests are underwhelming. 

[Lebanese Dude]

Don't say that here!, the fanboys are going to attack you with every excuse they can found.

They are never going to accept Dragon age isn't perfect.

How ironic given that most "haters" expect it to be rather than accept it for its faults like when they play any other series.

[Lebanese Dude]

Bartrand merely touched an idol for a while and became a raving lunatic who heard the song. But the companions in future Redcliffe are mentally sound, with red lyrium actually growing out of them.
I am disappoint.

The year timeskip is merely there for dramatic purposes. Given the speed at which red lyrium grows, they were only exposed to it relatively close to the time you appear in the future. The companions weren't all that there anyway, but were snapped back to reality by the sight of you.

The mental decay also happens over a very long period. It took Meredith 3 years or so to go completely mental. It also took Bartrand 3 years to go fully mental as well, in case you forgot. Unless of course you believe that Bartrand sacrificed his entire entourages and hired new ones several times before your confrontation.

Also red Templars exposed to reasonable amounts of red lyrium still have their mental acuity.

Regarding Bartrand, you can see the idol glowing as if it were activated when Bartrand touched it. Given the idols special significance, perhaps it is a channel for the living red lyrium to exert its will. Who knows, but it clearly a tool and not a random chunk of red lyrium. Notice how it also glows near Varric, but not as persistently as when Hawke touches it. When he does he manages to overpower it. Perhaps it is more attuned to dwarves?

Are you looking for a plot hole or something, cause you haven't really found one. I can give you a few if you really want to gnaw on for your Dragon Age Hate therapy sessions.

[thats1evildude]

Champions has just as many plot holes regarding the templars, including but not limited to how they could miss a demon taking them over, the whole red lyrium bit, all of their officers being comically an corruptly evil, etc. And I can't agree that the Fade feels any more personal. It's a cool concept, but it's as alien as the bad future. I think both quests are underwhelming.

That's not a plot hole. Envy is a skilled doppelganger and it had help from both the Lord Seeker and Knight-Captain Denam. That was very well-explained. Besides, it fits in with how the Templars have lost their way.

And the personal aspect comes from Envy wanting to be YOU, to take your identity and become the Herald. Take away the Fade Rifts and IHW could theoretically be completed by anyone.

[greenbrownblue]

Honestly, I don't get where that comes from. Champions of the Just isn't really that great of a quest. In Hushed Whispers is stupid with the time travel point, but I just don't see the supposed greatness of Champions of the Just. What am I supposedly missing?

Yeah, same here. Champions of the Just is well done, but seeing what could happen Inquisitor fails is sooo much more interesting. Tho I do not like one thing about it : when you meet future Varric. He kinda sounds ... too chill as for someone who is surrounded by red lyrium.