It's bull. They go back to darkspace to hibernate. They leave a vanguard and come back. They built the mass relays and citadel. Unless they built a super mass relay it would take them more than 50 thousand year to get there. They were created by MW races to solve their problem. They don't have the time or the programming to go to Andromeda. The catalyst is in the MW. They aren't concerned about other galaxies cause that's not their purpose. If they go to Andromeda they have to go to all the other galaxies and purge which is unrealistic considering the time in between harvests. They do that every 50,000 years to let civilizations evolve and hibernate. That's lore. If they went to other galaxies surely we would know by now. They're not gonna be in Andromeda so it's confirmed. No more reapers. Unless they put that in Andromeda which is highly unlikely then no Reapers. Oh yeah let's solve the synthetic problem by going to every galaxy. No.
Them hibernating is never confirmed, only a hypothesis by Vigil who even admits it is one since he has no actual data to go on.
They do have a super Mass Relay, the Citadel.
It would not take them over 50 thousand years to get there. It would take them 231 years to get there with conventional FTL. They could get there, harvest, and get back to the Milky Way in only a single millennium, or 2% of the time between Milky Way harvests.
They don't have to go to all. Just the galaxies in the Local Group. Which they could handle within 50,000 years. They would decide not to go farther at this point in time because then it would mess with their efficiency. That could be another reason they are building their numbers, so soon they can afford to send some to other galactic groups.
The Reapers won't be in Andromeda during the games yes, but their legacy may very well be. Things like Mass Relays or even Mass Effect technology itself since that is their technology and the namesake of the franchise.
Them hibernating is never confirmed, only a hypothesis by Vigil who even admits it is one since he has no actual data to go on.
They do have a super Mass Relay, the Citadel.
It would not take them over 50 thousand years to get there. It would take them 231 years to get there with conventional FTL. They could get there, harvest, and get back to the Milky Way in only a single millennium, or 2% of the time between Milky Way harvests.
They don't have to go to all. Just the galaxies in the Local Group. Which they could handle within 50,000 years. They would decide not to go farther at this point in time because then it would mess with their efficiency. That could be another reason they are building their numbers, so soon they can afford to send some to other galactic groups.
The Reapers won't be in Andromeda during the games yes, but their legacy may very well be. Things like Mass Relays or even Mass Effect technology itself since that is their technology and the namesake of the franchise.
They wouldn't even all have to go. Given how long they've been operating, there are tens of thousands of Reapers out there just from harvesting MW races. They could send groups of them out to each galaxy periodically to harvest.
There could be hundreds of thousands of Reapers operating out in dark space, from races outside the MW
Right now, when I read the thread title, I could have sworn it said "If the species of the current cycle can reach Andromeda then the Reapers and the Lesbians can do it too." I blame it on these forums.
I would like to point out that, IMOSHO, the Reapers and the Leviathans wouldn't have explored beyond the MW if only because they had too much to lose in that case. They were the biggest fish in their pond; that would have been far from guaranteed elsewhere. The last thing they would want is to poke something stronger than themselves. The modern Milkies have nothing to lose.
Them hibernating is never confirmed, only a hypothesis by Vigil who even admits it is one since he has no actual data to go on.
They do have a super Mass Relay, the Citadel.
It would not take them over 50 thousand years to get there. It would take them 231 years to get there with conventional FTL. They could get there, harvest, and get back to the Milky Way in only a single millennium, or 2% of the time between Milky Way harvests.
They don't have to go to all. Just the galaxies in the Local Group. Which they could handle within 50,000 years. They would decide not to go farther at this point in time because then it would mess with their efficiency. That could be another reason they are building their numbers, so soon they can afford to send some to other galactic groups.
The Reapers won't be in Andromeda during the games yes, but their legacy may very well be. Things like Mass Relays or even Mass Effect technology itself since that is their technology and the namesake of the franchise.
Well no Reapers anyway. No need to make an argument when you hear it from the devs mouth. But We'll find out for sure when the game arrives.
They wouldn't even all have to go. Given how long they've been operating, there are tens of thousands of Reapers out there just from harvesting MW races. They could send groups of them out to each galaxy periodically to harvest.
There could be hundreds of thousands of Reapers out in dark space, from races outside the MW
Yeah. The fleet we dealt with could have been the fleet that handled the Local Galactic Group. Others could have been sent and handle other galactic groups, leaving them so far away as they wouldn't be an issue for us.
Well no Reapers anyway. No need to make an argument when you hear it from the devs mouth. But We'll find out for sure when the game arrives.
As I said, I'm not arguing for or even want the Reapers to make an actual appearance. What I want Reaper-related to show up is their legacy, which I mentioned is things like Mass Relays and the basis for all Mass Effect technology. I think that revelation has great story potential.
Yeah. The fleet we dealt with could have been the fleet that handled the Local Galactic Group. Others could have been sent and handle other galactic groups, leaving them so far away as they wouldn't be an issue for us.
More so, this could have been the portion of the fleet that handles the Milky Way. There could be others tasked with handling the Magellanic Clouds, Andromeda, Triangulum, etc.
More so, this could have been the portion of the fleet that handles the Milky Way. There could be others tasked with handling the Magellanic Clouds, Andromeda, Triangulum, etc.
Possibly, but I can see them having the fleet that hit the Milky Way being the entire fleet in the Local Galactic Group since that way they are dealt with. They could go from galaxy to galaxy like a plague of locusts in a giant cycle.
Of course the Intelligence may have decided to take it to the next level and expanded its territory to other galaxies. However, I think it is unlikely. I joked recently that in ME:A we will discover that the reapers were going for the entire universe. What's next? The multiverse? Is there lurking something more dangerous? Will ME5 end it all with a big bang?
I don't think BW will use the reapers outside the MW, because that would defeat the reason to move to Andromeda. I think it is just damage control to save the IP from the ending of ME3.
It's going to take some serious handwaving to explain why there are no Leviathans or Reapers in Andromeda.
Not really. Leviathans were pretty damn lethargic. They just sat around for Millenia doing nothing except receiving worship, until eventually they got upset that their slaves were managing to kill themselves with AI.
The Reapers wouldn't go to Andromeda because it wasn't in their code.
Possibly, but I can see them having the fleet that hit the Milky Way being the entire fleet in the Local Galactic Group since that way they are dealt with. They could go from galaxy to galaxy like a plague of locusts in a giant cycle.
Locusts is a good example. But I would imagine that if the Reapers got to a certain number, some would break off and form a new "brood"
Thus we could have a Milky Way brood, an Andromeda brood, a Triangulum brood, and so on. Otherwise you'll have millions of Reapers steamrolling through a galaxy (using ambush predator tactics, at that) when the mere tens of thousand in teh MW already seemed like severe overkill
Of course the Intelligence may have decided to take it to the next level and expanded its territory to other galaxies. However, I think it is unlikely. I joked recently that in ME:A we will discover that the reapers were going for the entire universe. What's next? The multiverse? Is there lurking something more dangerous? Will ME5 end it all with a big bang?
I don't think BW will use the reapers outside the MW, because that would defeat the reason to move to Andromeda. I think it is just damage control to save the IP from the ending of ME3.
The Reapers have a mandate to "preserve life at any cost" with no restrictions (thus how hey were able to turn on the Leviathans to begin with) This would compel them to preserve any life they could reach, even across galaxies.
Not to mention if they left galaxies alone, then 'inevitably" synthetic life would arise, evolve, and eventually invade the Milky Way to exterminate organics there too. Again, something the Reapers could not allow to happen.
But yes the Reapers have become something of an albatross for the IP, and handwaving will be done to explain how they conveniently never left the MW.
Locusts is a good example. But I would imagine that if the Reapers got to a certain number, some would break off and form a new "brood"
Thus we could have a Milky Way brood, an Andromeda brood, a Triangulum brood, and so on. Otherwise you'll have millions of Reapers steamrolling through a galaxy (using ambush predator tactics, at that) when the mere tens of thousand in teh MW already seemed like severe overkill
That's what I was saying. After X cycles, the Reapers had developed a system efficient enough that a portion of the Reapers go to a new galactic group while Harbinger and the rest remain here to continue. The only difference is I don't think they have a brood for each galaxy, but each galactic group. Otherwise Reaper reinforcements would be able to arrive within a few years of the Reaper War before the Milky Way has time to prepare and would slaughter them.
Plus as I said, with all the Reapers of this hypothetical galactic group brood being in the Milky Way, it offers an easy explanation for why they aren't showing up anymore in future games since they were either destroyed, became allies, or are busy harvesting the Milky Way and its satellite galaxies for the next few millennia.
Right now, when I read the thread title, I could have sworn it said "If the species of the current cycle can reach Andromeda then the Reapers and the Lesbians can do it too." I blame it on these forums.
I would like to point out that, IMOSHO, the Reapers and the Leviathans wouldn't have explored beyond the MW if only because they had too much to lose in that case. They were the biggest fish in their pond; that would have been far from guaranteed elsewhere. The last thing they would want is to poke something stronger than themselves. The modern Milkies have nothing to lose.
However, the reality is, according to the lore, that the Reapers have gone (explored) outside the Milky Way for millenia upon millenia... into "dark space"... and we just don't really know what they were doing there and how far out into dark space they went. Neither do we know how numerous they were, etc.
If the Reapers went to Andromeda then it's logical to think they'd build the relay network to connect there as well. If they built the relay network there then wouldn't the Crucible similarly affect Andromeda as it does the MW? We're not going to see the effects of the ME3 endings in Andromeda (since we're going there to avoid them), therefore the Reapers never travelled to galaxies outside the MW.
The Reapers have a mandate to "preserve life at any cost" with no restrictions (thus how hey were able to turn on the Leviathans to begin with) This would compel them to preserve any life they could reach, even across galaxies.
Not to mention if they left galaxies alone, then 'inevitably" synthetic life would arise, evolve, and eventually invade the Milky Way to exterminate organics there too. Again, something the Reapers could not allow to happen.
But yes the Reapers have become something of an albatross for the IP, and handwaving will be done to explain how they conveniently never left the MW.
Before everyone starts yelling: I always select destroy, but I dislike the ending in all its variations, because all are full of genocide and eugenics. However, I am willing to make sense of them. It's a fun thought experiment.
Back when ME3 was just released I was posting the same idea multiple times: There is no logical reason why the reapers would not expand to other galaxies. At least that is what I thought (for various reasons) at the time. I've now change my mind.
There are some inaccuracies in your post. You said that the reapers turned against the leviathans. That is not how it went. So I give you a rundown of what I think actually happened.
The leviathans created the Intelligence to solve an economic problem. The problem was that the lesser races in the thrall of the leviathans (the apex race at the time) were being decimated by synthetics. The Intelligence had to find a solution for that, because tribute does not flow from a dead race. The leviathans never told the Intelligence how to solve that problem. Instead it was allowed to find a solution on its own. As part of its research, the Intelligence required an army of paws to retrieve physical data of the thralls. Those pawns were not reapers. However, that army was turned against the leviathans and the first reaper was created in the image of the levithans. That reaper became known as Harbinger. Then the cyclical harvesting began.
The harvesting of the galaxy is an experiment of the Intelligence. Evolution is its tool. The harvest will continue until it finds what it is looking for.
So, it's very unlikely that it will expand to other galaxies, because the Intelligence does not think that cyclical harvesting is the ultimate solution to its problem. In the first spoiler you'll find the complete conversation between Shepard and the leviathans. In there the leviathans claim all the above. Also, in the ME3 ending the Intelligence/Catalyst/Child confirms that. You can find a part of the ending conversation below in the second spoiler.
Spoiler
***** Leviathan DLC dialogue. *****
Leviathan: You have come too far.
Shepard: I had to find you.
Leviathan: This is not your domain. You have breached the darkness.
Shepard: You killed a reaper. I need to know why.
Leviathan: They are the enemy. One that seeks our extermination.
Shepard: But... I thought you were a reaper.
Leviathan: They were only echoes. We existed long before.
Shepard: Then what are you?
Leviathan: Something more. Your mind belongs to me. Breathe.
Shepard: Ann? What's happening?
Leviathan: Your memories give voice to our words. Your nature will be revealed to us. Accept this.
Shepard: The galaxy's at war with the reapers. You defeated one. Why aren't you fighting back?
Leviathan: There is no war. There is only the harvest.
Shepard: Then help us stop it!
Leviathan: None have the strength in past cycles. Your own species could be destroyed with a single thought. But you are different. I have witnessed your actions in this cycle: the destruction of Sovereign; the fall of the collectors. The reapers perceive you as a threat. And I must understand why.
Leviathan: Before the cycles, our kind was the apex of life in the galaxy. The lesser species were in our thrall, serving our needs. We grew more powerful, and they were cared for. But we could not protect them from themselves. Over time, the species built machines that then destroyed them. Tribute does not flow from a dead race. To solve this problem, we created an intelligence with the mandate to preserve life at any cost. As the Intelligence evolved, it studied the development of civilizations. It's understanding grew until it found a solution. In that instant it betrayed us. It chose our kind as the first harvest. From our essence, the first reaper was created. You call it Harbinger.
Shepard: You built that machine despite what you saw the other races experience. Why?
Leviathan: You cannot conceive of a galaxy that bends to your will. Every creature, every nation, every planet we discovered became our tools. We were above the concerns of lesser species. The Intelligence was envisioned as simply another tool.
Shepard: And now we all pay the price for your mistake.
Leviathan: There was no mistake. It still serves its purpose.
Shepard: How did you remain hidden all this time?
Leviathan: Our extermination was not complete. Some survived and found refuge in the dark corners of the galaxy. I am their progeny. Over the cycles the thrall races were controlled, removing traces of our existence as we directed them to. In this way, our survival was kept secret from the reapers. Today, we reach out through the fragments and watch for discovery.
Shepard: Fragments? You mean the artifacts we found?
Leviathan: They provide a window in the galaxy. Tools for exploring the events of this cycle from the safety of this world. Through them, we watch, we study, and remain in the shadows.
Shepard: How did the Intelligence defeat you?
Leviathan: To find a solution, it required information - physical data drawn from organic life in the cosmos. It created an army of pawns that searched the galaxy, gathering this data. There was no warning, no reason given when they turned against us. Only slaughter. Only the harvest.
Shepard: Tell me about the reapers.
Leviathan: Each harvest ends with the birth of a reaper. Perfect in its design. Each formed in Harbinger's image. Our image. Each reaper has the power to influence organics. Over countless cycles, this ability was refined, perfected and gave rise to indoctrination.
Shepard: But what's the point of all these harvests?
Leviathan: The Intelligence has one purpose: preservation of life. That purpose has not been fulfilled. It directed the reapers to create the mass relays - to speed the time between cycles for greatest efficiency. The galaxy itself became an experiment. Evolution its tool.
Shepard: Will it ever end?
Leviathan: Unknown. Until the Intelligence finds what it is looking for, the harvest will continue.
Shepard: What do you know about the Crucible?
Leviathan: We have watched its construction before. It has never been completed. Those who have tried still fell victim to the harvest. Its outcome is unknown.
Shepard: Okay, you made your point. Will you help stop the cycle?
Leviathan: I have searched your mind. You are an anomaly - yet that is not enough.
Shepard: Wait!
Leviathan: The cycle will continue.
Shepard: No! You have been watching. You know this cycle is different.
Leviathan: We will survive. You will remain here as a servant of our needs. The reapers will harvest the rest.
Shepard: If you release me, no one has to be harvested.
Leviathan: Nothing will change.
Shepard (paragon): The reapers know where you are! You can't just watch anymore - you have to fight! Even if you survive the battle today, the reapers won't stop - ever. Release me, and we have a chance to end this once and for all.
Shepard (renegade): You are responsible for this! Every race that has ever been destroyed is because of you. And now the reapers will destroy you too. Unless you start fighting. Even if you survive the battle today, the reapers won't stop - ever. Release me, and we have a chance to end this once and for all.
Leviathan: Your confidence is singular.
Shepard: I've earned it: out there fighting, where you should be.
Leviathan: It is clear why the reapers perceive you as a threat. Your victories are more than a product of chance. We will fight. But not for you, or any lesser race. We were the first, the apex race. We will survive. And the reapers who trespass this world will understand our power. They will become our slaves. Today, they pay their tribute in blood.
Spoiler
***** Ending dialogue with the Leviathan DLC. *****
Shepard: I met your creators. They told me what you did to them.
Child: We did as we were expected.
Shepard: They said you betrayed them. That you turned them into Harbinger.
Child: When they asked that I solved the problem of conflict, they failed to understand that they were part of the problem themselves. The flaws of their organic reasoning could not perceive this. They lacked the foresight to understand their destruction was part of the very solution they required.
Shepard: Well, they've joined this war now.
Child: And I welcome their involvement. I am only facilitating their request.
Shepard: Where did the reapers come from? Did you create them?
Child: My creators gave them form. I gave them function. They, in turn, gave me purpose. The reapers are a synthetic representation of my creators.
Shepard: The leviathan...
Child: Yes. They created me to oversee the relations between synthetics and organic life... to establish a connection. They became the first true reaper. They did not approve, but it was the only solution.
Shepard: You said that before, but how do the reapers solve anything?
Child: Organics create synthetics to improve their own existence, but those improvements have limits. To exceed those limits, synthetics must be allowed to evolve. They must, by definition, surpass their creators. The result is conflict, destruction, chaos. It is inevitable. Reapers harvest all life - organic and synthetic - preserving them before they are lost forever in this conflict.
There are two things that the Intelligence thinks are inevitable. One is the conflict between organics and synthetics. The other is transcendence. The latter never succeeded before. However, this time it believes that transcendence/synthesis will work. It considers transcendence to be the ultimate solution (because organics and synthetics will be united) and presents its work to Shepard. Its task is finished.
Given the above, the three options start to make sense. Use synthesis now and utopia will be created. Use control and continue with the knowledge of the reapers to find another solution. Even if Shepard selects destroy, the Intelligence succeeded, because it has found a solution and made that solution public. It has no reason to exist anymore.
Edit 1: If that's the case then some in-game visibility of the intention, other than the dialogues mentioned, would be helpful. A coupe of years back a few of us wondered if the three platforms were part of the Citadel or part of the Crucible. A friend made some images and we concluded that the three platforms were part of the former. At the time many fans, wondered where they came from, because the platforms do not appear on any images we have of the Crucible itself. Either way it would support the intention of the Catalyst, because the Catalyst did not try to destroy "the weapon". See the 10 images in the spoiler below:
Spoiler
Edit 2: It also appears that the Crucible designs were changed to interface with the Catalyst one way or another. Much like the reapers deliberately leave tech to be found, it may suggest that this happened to the Crucible as well. This is what Venetta says about it on Illium (first part) and at TIM's base (second part):
Spoiler
Prothean VI: The Crucible is not of prothean design. It is the work of countless galactic cycles stretching back millions of years.
Prothean VI: Each cycle adds to it. Each improves upon it. Thus far, none have succesfully defeated the reapers with it.
-----
Prothean VI: The plans for the Crucible were passed down to use from the previous cycle, and countless cycles before that.
Prothean VI: At some point (it is difficult to pinpoint when) the Crucible plans adapted to incorporate the use of the Catalyst.
Edit: Corrected a broken quote in the spoiler above.
We don't know if the Intelligence's grand experiment ever included Andromeda, but do you think the Leviathans had an interest in moving beyond the Milky Way? I find it hard to believe that the galaxy's most advanced species never established a presence in Andromeda. Unless they were content to run just one galaxy.
Also, it's worth reminding everyone that mass effect technology is Reaper technology. Thus, is it possible that the Reapers will always have some role to play in the future of this series?
<<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>
The Reapers died in the MW galaxy. This is Andromeda. Forget the freaking Reapers, Protheans or any other crapola species in the MW.
Bio did not turn a page, they picked a brand new book.
Back when ME3 was just released I was posting the same idea multiple times: There is no logical reason why the reapers would not expand to other galaxies. At least that is what I thought (for various reasons) at the time. I've now change my mind.
There are some inaccuracies in your post. You said that the reapers turned against the leviathans. That is not how it went. So I give you a rundown of what I think actually happened.
The leviathans created the Intelligence to solve an economic problem. The problem was that the lesser races in the thrall of the leviathans (the apex race at the time) were being decimated by synthetics. The Intelligence had to find a solution for that, because tribute does not flow from a dead race. The leviathans never told the Intelligence how to solve that problem. Instead it was allowed to find a solution on its own. As part of its research, the Intelligence required an army of paws to retrieve physical data of the thralls. Those pawns were not reapers. However, that army was turned against the leviathans and the first reaper was created in the image of the levithans. That reaper became known as Harbinger. Then the cyclical harvesting began.
The harvesting of the galaxy is an experiment of the Intelligence. Evolution is its tool. The harvest will continue until it finds what it is looking for.
So, it's very unlikely that it will expand to other galaxies, because the Intelligence does not think that cyclical harvesting is the ultimate solution to its problem. In the first spoiler you'll find the complete conversation between Shepard and the leviathans. In there the leviathans claim all the above. Also, in the ME3 ending the Intelligence/Catalyst/Child confirms that. You can find a part of the ending conversation below in the second spoiler.
Spoiler
***** Leviathan DLC dialogue. *****
Leviathan: You have come too far.
Shepard: I had to find you.
Leviathan: This is not your domain. You have breached the darkness.
Shepard: You killed a reaper. I need to know why.
Leviathan: They are the enemy. One that seeks our extermination.
Shepard: But... I thought you were a reaper.
Leviathan: They were only echoes. We existed long before.
Shepard: Then what are you?
Leviathan: Something more. Your mind belongs to me. Breathe.
Shepard: Ann? What's happening?
Leviathan: Your memories give voice to our words. Your nature will be revealed to us. Accept this.
Shepard: The galaxy's at war with the reapers. You defeated one. Why aren't you fighting back?
Leviathan: There is no war. There is only the harvest.
Shepard: Then help us stop it!
Leviathan: None have the strength in past cycles. Your own species could be destroyed with a single thought. But you are different. I have witnessed your actions in this cycle: the destruction of Sovereign; the fall of the collectors. The reapers perceive you as a threat. And I must understand why.
Leviathan: Before the cycles, our kind was the apex of life in the galaxy. The lesser species were in our thrall, serving our needs. We grew more powerful, and they were cared for. But we could not protect them from themselves. Over time, the species built machines that then destroyed them. Tribute does not flow from a dead race. To solve this problem, we created an intelligence with the mandate to preserve life at any cost. As the Intelligence evolved, it studied the development of civilizations. It's understanding grew until it found a solution. In that instant it betrayed us. It chose our kind as the first harvest. From our essence, the first reaper was created. You call it Harbinger.
Shepard: You built that machine despite what you saw the other races experience. Why?
Leviathan: You cannot conceive of a galaxy that bends to your will. Every creature, every nation, every planet we discovered became our tools. We were above the concerns of lesser species. The Intelligence was envisioned as simply another tool.
Shepard: And now we all pay the price for your mistake.
Leviathan: There was no mistake. It still serves its purpose.
Shepard: How did you remain hidden all this time?
Leviathan: Our extermination was not complete. Some survived and found refuge in the dark corners of the galaxy. I am their progeny. Over the cycles the thrall races were controlled, removing traces of our existence as we directed them to. In this way, our survival was kept secret from the reapers. Today, we reach out through the fragments and watch for discovery.
Shepard: Fragments? You mean the artifacts we found?
Leviathan: They provide a window in the galaxy. Tools for exploring the events of this cycle from the safety of this world. Through them, we watch, we study, and remain in the shadows.
Shepard: How did the Intelligence defeat you?
Leviathan: To find a solution, it required information - physical data drawn from organic life in the cosmos. It created an army of pawns that searched the galaxy, gathering this data. There was no warning, no reason given when they turned against us. Only slaughter. Only the harvest.
Shepard: Tell me about the reapers.
Leviathan: Each harvest ends with the birth of a reaper. Perfect in its design. Each formed in Harbinger's image. Our image. Each reaper has the power to influence organics. Over countless cycles, this ability was refined, perfected and gave rise to indoctrination.
Shepard: But what's the point of all these harvests?
Leviathan: The Intelligence has one purpose: preservation of life. That purpose has not been fulfilled. It directed the reapers to create the mass relays - to speed the time between cycles for greatest efficiency. The galaxy itself became an experiment. Evolution its tool.
Shepard: Will it ever end?
Leviathan: Unknown. Until the Intelligence finds what it is looking for, the harvest will continue.
Shepard: What do you know about the Crucible?
Leviathan: We have watched its construction before. It has never been completed. Those who have tried still fell victim to the harvest. Its outcome is unknown.
Shepard: Okay, you made your point. Will you help stop the cycle?
Leviathan: I have searched your mind. You are an anomaly - yet that is not enough.
Shepard: Wait!
Leviathan: The cycle will continue.
Shepard: No! You have been watching. You know this cycle is different.
Leviathan: We will survive. You will remain here as a servant of our needs. The reapers will harvest the rest.
Shepard: If you release me, no one has to be harvested.
Leviathan: Nothing will change.
Shepard (paragon): The reapers know where you are! You can't just watch anymore - you have to fight! Even if you survive the battle today, the reapers won't stop - ever. Release me, and we have a chance to end this once and for all.
Shepard (renegade): You are responsible for this! Every race that has ever been destroyed is because of you. And now the reapers will destroy you too. Unless you start fighting. Even if you survive the battle today, the reapers won't stop - ever. Release me, and we have a chance to end this once and for all.
Leviathan: Your confidence is singular.
Shepard: I've earned it: out there fighting, where you should be.
Leviathan: It is clear why the reapers perceive you as a threat. Your victories are more than a product of chance. We will fight. But not for you, or any lesser race. We were the first, the apex race. We will survive. And the reapers who trespass this world will understand our power. They will become our slaves. Today, they pay their tribute in blood.
Spoiler
***** Ending dialogue with the Leviathan DLC. *****
Shepard: I met your creators. They told me what you did to them.
Child: We did as we were expected.
Shepard: They said you betrayed them. That you turned them into Harbinger.
Child: When they asked that I solved the problem of conflict, they failed to understand that they were part of the problem themselves. The flaws of their organic reasoning could not perceive this. They lacked the foresight to understand their destruction was part of the very solution they required.
Shepard: Well, they've joined this war now.
Child: And I welcome their involvement. I am only facilitating their request.
Shepard: Where did the reapers come from? Did you create them?
Child: My creators gave them form. I gave them function. They, in turn, gave me purpose. The reapers are a synthetic representation of my creators.
Shepard: The leviathan...
Child: Yes. They created me to oversee the relations between synthetics and organic life... to establish a connection. They became the first true reaper. They did not approve, but it was the only solution.
Shepard: You said that before, but how do the reapers solve anything?
Child: Organics create synthetics to improve their own existence, but those improvements have limits. To exceed those limits, synthetics must be allowed to evolve. They must, by definition, surpass their creators. The result is conflict, destruction, chaos. It is inevitable. Reapers harvest all life - organic and synthetic - preserving them before they are lost forever in this conflict.
There are two things that the Intelligence thinks are inevitable. One is the conflict between organics and synthetics. The other is transcendence. The latter never succeeded before. However, this time it believes that transcendence/synthesis will work. It considers transcendence to be the ultimate solution (because organics and synthetics will be united) and presents its work to Shepard. Its task is finished.
Given the above, the three options start to make sense. Use synthesis now and utopia will be created. Use control and continue with the knowledge of the reapers to find another solution. Even if Shepard selects destroy, the Intelligence succeeded, because it has found a solution and made that solution public. It has no reason to exist anymore.
But notice both the Leviathan and the Catalyst say that its mandate is to preserve life. At any cost. It also determined that conflict between organic and synthetic life was "inevitable" And that without the cycles (its "solution") synthetics would eventually outstrip their creators and wipe out all organic life.
Keep in mind, this is all "inevitable"
Now intergalactic travel is known to us to be possible. MEA couldn't happen otherwise. Let's also assume that the Reapers know this. They are far, far more advanced than the current cycle, this is not a stretch.
Let us also assume there is organic life in Andromeda. Again, reasonable assumption. Now the thinking of the Catalyst is organic life=>eventual synthetic life=>synthetic life surpasses organic life=>conflict=>synthetic life destroys organic life.
The Reapers' mandate is to preserve organic life. Therefore it cannot allow this to happen.
But wait! Perhaps its mandate is limited to the Milky Way! Well, first off there is zero evidence of this. We've only seen them referred to in the context of the Milky Way, but that's where everyone lives. There is no evidence that the Reapers are constrained from operating elsewhere. At least not by programming.
But even if that were the case, remember, travel to other galaxies is still possible. And it is "inevitable" that synthetics will arise and destroy all organic life. that means synthetics from other galaxies can evolve to traverse dark space, come to the Milky Way, and come into conflict with organics, wiping them out.
Therefore, it would behoove the Reapers to travel to other galaxies and make sure synthetics never arise there either, if only to protect the Milky Way from others. After all, who is to say that synthetics, left unchecked, couldn't evolve to a point where they could match or even exceed the Reapers?
the default ending is that the reapers were destroyed so thats impossible since the ending of ME3 has no impact on ME:A with will go with the default end to ME3
the default ending is that the reapers were destroyed so thats impossible since the ending of ME3 has no impact on ME:A with will go with the default end to ME3
Maybe the energy of the crucible loses it's power in dark space... becoming too weak over the distance to effectively destroy Reapers in other galaxies?
Maybe the energy of the crucible loses it's power in dark space... becoming too weak over the distance to effectively destroy Reapers in other galaxies?
but from what we're told all the reapers are attacking MW
but from what we're told all the reapers are attacking MW
Where precisely does it say ALL the reapers in existence are attacking the Milky Way... Sovereign indicates that they are "legion" in numbers (too great in number to ever count) and that we can't even fathom how old they are, etc. Even if we "estimate" that all of them are attacking the Milky Way... what is the likelihood that we're simply mistaken about this. Is it such an "insult" to the lore for human and alien leaders in both the present and past cycles to have made an error in judgment about how vast the reaper threat actually was?
In addition, it is possible that the Catalyst's control of the Reapers is also only strong enough to extend to the dark space just beyond the Milky Way... but what if there are Reapers out in dark space that simply drifted out of the range of his signal and are out there... no longer under his control?... rogue reapers or AWOL reapers.
Before everyone starts yelling: I always select destroy, but I dislike the ending in all its variations, because all are full of genocide and eugenics. However, I am willing to make sense of them. It's a fun thought experiment.
Back when ME3 was just released I was posting the same idea multiple times: There is no logical reason why the reapers would not expand to other galaxies. At least that is what I thought (for various reasons) at the time. I've now change my mind.
There are some inaccuracies in your post. You said that the reapers turned against the leviathans. That is not how it went. So I give you a rundown of what I think actually happened.
The leviathans created the Intelligence to solve an economic problem. The problem was that the lesser races in the thrall of the leviathans (the apex race at the time) were being decimated by synthetics. The Intelligence had to find a solution for that, because tribute does not flow from a dead race. The leviathans never told the Intelligence how to solve that problem. Instead it was allowed to find a solution on its own. As part of its research, the Intelligence required an army of paws to retrieve physical data of the thralls. Those pawns were not reapers. However, that army was turned against the leviathans and the first reaper was created in the image of the levithans. That reaper became known as Harbinger. Then the cyclical harvesting began.
The harvesting of the galaxy is an experiment of the Intelligence. Evolution is its tool. The harvest will continue until it finds what it is looking for.
So, it's very unlikely that it will expand to other galaxies, because the Intelligence does not think that cyclical harvesting is the ultimate solution to its problem. In the first spoiler you'll find the complete conversation between Shepard and the leviathans. In there the leviathans claim all the above. Also, in the ME3 ending the Intelligence/Catalyst/Child confirms that. You can find a part of the ending conversation below in the second spoiler.
Spoiler
***** Leviathan DLC dialogue. *****
Leviathan: You have come too far.
Shepard: I had to find you.
Leviathan: This is not your domain. You have breached the darkness.
Shepard: You killed a reaper. I need to know why.
Leviathan: They are the enemy. One that seeks our extermination.
Shepard: But... I thought you were a reaper.
Leviathan: They were only echoes. We existed long before.
Shepard: Then what are you?
Leviathan: Something more. Your mind belongs to me. Breathe.
Shepard: Ann? What's happening?
Leviathan: Your memories give voice to our words. Your nature will be revealed to us. Accept this.
Shepard: The galaxy's at war with the reapers. You defeated one. Why aren't you fighting back?
Leviathan: There is no war. There is only the harvest.
Shepard: Then help us stop it!
Leviathan: None have the strength in past cycles. Your own species could be destroyed with a single thought. But you are different. I have witnessed your actions in this cycle: the destruction of Sovereign; the fall of the collectors. The reapers perceive you as a threat. And I must understand why.
Leviathan: Before the cycles, our kind was the apex of life in the galaxy. The lesser species were in our thrall, serving our needs. We grew more powerful, and they were cared for. But we could not protect them from themselves. Over time, the species built machines that then destroyed them. Tribute does not flow from a dead race. To solve this problem, we created an intelligence with the mandate to preserve life at any cost. As the Intelligence evolved, it studied the development of civilizations. It's understanding grew until it found a solution. In that instant it betrayed us. It chose our kind as the first harvest. From our essence, the first reaper was created. You call it Harbinger.
Shepard: You built that machine despite what you saw the other races experience. Why?
Leviathan: You cannot conceive of a galaxy that bends to your will. Every creature, every nation, every planet we discovered became our tools. We were above the concerns of lesser species. The Intelligence was envisioned as simply another tool.
Shepard: And now we all pay the price for your mistake.
Leviathan: There was no mistake. It still serves its purpose.
Shepard: How did you remain hidden all this time?
Leviathan: Our extermination was not complete. Some survived and found refuge in the dark corners of the galaxy. I am their progeny. Over the cycles the thrall races were controlled, removing traces of our existence as we directed them to. In this way, our survival was kept secret from the reapers. Today, we reach out through the fragments and watch for discovery.
Shepard: Fragments? You mean the artifacts we found?
Leviathan: They provide a window in the galaxy. Tools for exploring the events of this cycle from the safety of this world. Through them, we watch, we study, and remain in the shadows.
Shepard: How did the Intelligence defeat you?
Leviathan: To find a solution, it required information - physical data drawn from organic life in the cosmos. It created an army of pawns that searched the galaxy, gathering this data. There was no warning, no reason given when they turned against us. Only slaughter. Only the harvest.
Shepard: Tell me about the reapers.
Leviathan: Each harvest ends with the birth of a reaper. Perfect in its design. Each formed in Harbinger's image. Our image. Each reaper has the power to influence organics. Over countless cycles, this ability was refined, perfected and gave rise to indoctrination.
Shepard: But what's the point of all these harvests?
Leviathan: The Intelligence has one purpose: preservation of life. That purpose has not been fulfilled. It directed the reapers to create the mass relays - to speed the time between cycles for greatest efficiency. The galaxy itself became an experiment. Evolution its tool.
Shepard: Will it ever end?
Leviathan: Unknown. Until the Intelligence finds what it is looking for, the harvest will continue.
Shepard: What do you know about the Crucible?
Leviathan: We have watched its construction before. It has never been completed. Those who have tried still fell victim to the harvest. Its outcome is unknown.
Shepard: Okay, you made your point. Will you help stop the cycle?
Leviathan: I have searched your mind. You are an anomaly - yet that is not enough.
Shepard: Wait!
Leviathan: The cycle will continue.
Shepard: No! You have been watching. You know this cycle is different.
Leviathan: We will survive. You will remain here as a servant of our needs. The reapers will harvest the rest.
Shepard: If you release me, no one has to be harvested.
Leviathan: Nothing will change.
Shepard (paragon): The reapers know where you are! You can't just watch anymore - you have to fight! Even if you survive the battle today, the reapers won't stop - ever. Release me, and we have a chance to end this once and for all.
Shepard (renegade): You are responsible for this! Every race that has ever been destroyed is because of you. And now the reapers will destroy you too. Unless you start fighting. Even if you survive the battle today, the reapers won't stop - ever. Release me, and we have a chance to end this once and for all.
Leviathan: Your confidence is singular.
Shepard: I've earned it: out there fighting, where you should be.
Leviathan: It is clear why the reapers perceive you as a threat. Your victories are more than a product of chance. We will fight. But not for you, or any lesser race. We were the first, the apex race. We will survive. And the reapers who trespass this world will understand our power. They will become our slaves. Today, they pay their tribute in blood.
Spoiler
***** Ending dialogue with the Leviathan DLC. *****
Shepard: I met your creators. They told me what you did to them.
Child: We did as we were expected.
Shepard: They said you betrayed them. That you turned them into Harbinger.
Child: When they asked that I solved the problem of conflict, they failed to understand that they were part of the problem themselves. The flaws of their organic reasoning could not perceive this. They lacked the foresight to understand their destruction was part of the very solution they required.
Shepard: Well, they've joined this war now.
Child: And I welcome their involvement. I am only facilitating their request.
Shepard: Where did the reapers come from? Did you create them?
Child: My creators gave them form. I gave them function. They, in turn, gave me purpose. The reapers are a synthetic representation of my creators.
Shepard: The leviathan...
Child: Yes. They created me to oversee the relations between synthetics and organic life... to establish a connection. They became the first true reaper. They did not approve, but it was the only solution.
Shepard: You said that before, but how do the reapers solve anything?
Child: Organics create synthetics to improve their own existence, but those improvements have limits. To exceed those limits, synthetics must be allowed to evolve. They must, by definition, surpass their creators. The result is conflict, destruction, chaos. It is inevitable. Reapers harvest all life - organic and synthetic - preserving them before they are lost forever in this conflict.
There are two things that the Intelligence thinks are inevitable. One is the conflict between organics and synthetics. The other is transcendence. The latter never succeeded before. However, this time it believes that transcendence/synthesis will work. It considers transcendence to be the ultimate solution (because organics and synthetics will be united) and presents its work to Shepard. Its task is finished.
Given the above, the three options start to make sense. Use synthesis now and utopia will be created. Use control and continue with the knowledge of the reapers to find another solution. Even if Shepard selects destroy, the Intelligence succeeded, because it has found a solution and made that solution public. It has no reason to exist anymore.
Edit 1: If that's the case then some in-game visibility of the intention, other than the dialogues mentioned, would be helpful. A coupe of years back a few of us wondered if the three platforms were part of the Citadel or part of the Crucible. A friend made some images and we concluded that the three platforms were part of the former. At the time many fans, wondered where they came from, because the platforms do not appear on any images we have of the Crucible itself. Either way it would support the intention of the Catalyst, because the Catalyst did not try to destroy "the weapon". See the 10 images in the spoiler below:
Spoiler
Edit 2: It also appears that the Crucible designs were changed to interface with the Catalyst one way or another. Much like the reapers deliberately leave tech to be found, it may suggest that this happened to the Crucible as well. This is what Venetta says about it on Illium (first part) and at TIM's base (second part):
Spoiler
cycles strecthing back millions of years.
Prothean VI: Each cycle adds to it. Each improves upon it. Thus far, none have succesfully defeated the reapers with it.
-----
Prothean VI: The plans for the Crucible were passed down to use from the previous cycle, and countless cycles before that.
Prothean VI: At some point (it is difficult to pinpoint when) the Crucible plans adapted to incorporate the use of the Catalyst.
You are also leaving out key aspects of why this is a single GALAXY situation which I cite on this thread.
1) The intelligence/catalyst searched the GALAXY to find a solution why limit itself to a single galaxy? "Over time, the species built machines that then destroyed them. Tribute does not flow from a dead race. To solve this problem, we created an intelligence with the mandate to preserve life at any cost."
It is simple the reapers are interim solution for the problem and the Leviathan clearly states what the problem is Tribute does not flow from a dead race. The leviathans were only ever confined to this galaxy we can infer this because every time they talk about themselves they use Apex of THE galaxy, and "You cannot conceive of A galaxy that bends to your will." Every time it is singular.
2) We also see that the Catalyst/intelligence also confined its search for a solution to only THIS galaxy. "To find a solution, it required information - physical data drawn from organic life in the cosmos. It created an army of pawns that searched THE galaxy, gathering this data."
It is clear that the Catalyst/intelligence is created to solve an ECONOMIC problem. "Tribute does not flow from a DEAD race. To solve this problem..." It found a solution but it now knows that the solution have become unstable with the arrival of the crucible which it can't get rid of as it's existence keeps returning cycle after cycle now. It is also clear that the problem was not an extragalatic problem because the Lethiathans never left our galaxy their empire was confined to THIS galaxy. That is clearly stated multiple times in the conversation leaving no room for interpretation. We also see that in search a solution the intelligence confines itself to the Milky way galaxy. This clearly delineates the confines of the Intelligence's zone of operation. Why limit yourself to just searching this galaxy for a solution? Simple the intelligence is only looking to solve a GALACTIC problem. This is why is doesn't look further this is why it has no reason to send reaper out to other galaxies and this is why it doesn't leave this galaxy.
It would take a whole hell of a lot of hand waving to ignore all of the established LORE of the reapers to find them outside the Milkyway. But lets be frank people like Hanako Ikezawa and Iakus are not interested in facts and integrity to lore despite claiming these things. They have their own personal agenda's and they could give a frak about anything else. They are perfect examples of emotional based thinkers, fox new would be proud. Facts are ignored when they don't align with their opinions and they continue to repeat their proven to be false positions over and over hoping the repetition will win the day because they have no facts to support their postpositions.
I posted clear reasons why the reapers out side the milkyway make zero sense but they choose to ignore said posts because they are too damning to their narratives.
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