457 réponses à ce sujet

[Vespervin]

What if... we left before the end of the war and a sizable amount of reapers followed when they found out, and they become the enemy in Andromeda's sequel? The topics here would be glorious.

 

Unitethegalaxyagainstthereapersvol2.mov

[Gothfather]

/snip

 

But wait!  Perhaps its mandate is limited to the Milky Way!  Well, first off there is zero evidence of this.  We've only seen them referred to in the context of the Milky Way, but that's where everyone lives.  There is no evidence that the Reapers are constrained from operating elsewhere.  At least not by programming.

 

/snip

 

You mean the zero evidence of being told the catalyst/intelligence confined itself to just our galaxy?

 

The zero evidence that we know the solution isn't to preserve life for its own sake but to preserve life to solve a definitive problem. "Tribute does not flow from a dead race. To solve THIS problem,..." You mean this zero evidence?

 

You mean that the zero evidence that this problem is confined to only this galaxy that zero evidence?

 

This post https://forum.biowar...too/?p=20047711 clearly goes into the details clearly shows why the reaper problem is local and uses CITED evidence. With in game video for anyone to confirm what I am saying so here is teh evidence you claim amounts to zero.

 

All you do is spew opinion how about you provide EVIDENCE for your position? I just provided the evidence you claimed is lacking but you will ignore this because you KNOW you have no means to refute it your silence is far more telling and honest then your bullsh!t.

[UpUpAway]

You mean the zero evidence of being told the catalyst/intelligence confined itself to just our galaxy?

 

The zero evidence that we know the solution isn't to preserve life for its own sake but to preserve life to solve a definitive problem. "Tribute does not flow from a dead race. To solve THIS problem,..." You mean this zero evidence?

 

You mean that the zero evidence that this problem is confined to only this galaxy that zero evidence?

 

This post https://forum.biowar...too/?p=20047711 clearly goes into the details clearly shows why the reaper problem is local and uses CITED evidence. With in game video for anyone to confirm what I am saying so here is teh evidence you claim amounts to zero.

 

All you do is spew opinion how about you provide EVIDENCE for your position? I just provided the evidence you claimed is lacking but you will ignore this because you KNOW you have no means to refute it your silence is far more telling and honest then your bullsh!t.

 

What your evidence shows is that Leviathan is a species from the Milky Way and that Leviathan perceived their problem regarding tribute as galactic in scale (i.e. within the limits of their empire) and created the Catalyst AI to solve this problem.  It also shows somewhat that the Catalyst saw the problem as being limited to the Milky Way galaxy.  However, what is known also is that the Reaper do leave the Millky Way galaxy between cycles (i.e. they go into dark space, which is clearly defined in the codex as being space outside the galaxy).  We also know from Sovereign that they are 'legion" (innumerable) and that they are "each a nation" unto themselves.  This clearly shows that each Reaper is "self-aware."... and EDI's example (in ME3) shows us that a self-aware AI can alter it's own programming.  The progression of the Geth and EDI also shows that what was originally created as a simple VI can also "learn" enough become self-aware.  In ME3, EDI mentions that it was difficult becoming self-aware while under Shepard's attack in ME1 (and this is before TIM tampered with her and installed Reaper code).

 

In addition, the "each a nation" line combined with the revelation that they are each created by "absorbing the essence" of a unique civilization is an indication that they may tend towards having different ideas and opinions based on whatever civilization they were created from.  They may also feel as though they are somewhat self-governing - since a individual government is largely what defines the concept of a "nation."

 

While the Catalyst clearly indicates that it has control over the Reapers, that control appears to be only on a galactic level.  This does not preclude a number of Reapers "going rogue" while in dark space and leaving the influence of the Catalyst.  We also know that the range of the Crucible appears to be limited to the Milky Way galaxy (since we are now assuming that any ARK that left Milky Way prior to the end of the Reaper War would contain humans and other organic Milky Way species that are unaffected by whatever choice Shepard makes).  If the power of the Crucible is limited to the Milky Way Galaxy or even just loses strength over distance in dark space... then there is nothing to say that Reapers could not survive, be left unaltered or be left uncontrolled by the firing of the Crucible at the end of the Reaper War.

 

This opens up a range of possibilities... including Rogue Reapers coming to their own unique solution to the problem that "tribute does not flow from a dead race" and that synthetics will inevitably rebel against their organic creators.  Heck, they could even become our allies in Andromeda... and wouldn't that be an interesting twist?

[Iakus]

I wish to point out that just because the Leviathans saw this problem only on a galactic scale, and specifically to their slave races, the Catalyst is not necessarily so limited.  Is in fact hinted to take a much 'broader" view than the Leviathans ever did.  At no point are we told the Reapers only operate in our galaxy.

[Medhia_Nox]

I wish to point out that just because the Leviathans saw this problem only on a galactic scale, and specifically to their slave races, the Catalyst is not necessarily so limited.  Is in fact hinted to take a much 'broader" view than the Leviathans ever did.  At no point are we told the Reapers only operate in our galaxy.

 

But the Reapers could never do what they do without the Citadel and the Relays.

 

The only reason that the Reapers are capable of wiping out sapient life is because of all the astronomical information loaded into the Citadel. 

 

Even with a "perfect run" it took them over a century to finish off the Protheans.

 

You don't just "scan" a galaxy and detect life.  The spaces we're talking about are unbelievably large. 

 

Life developed along the Relays - no relays, no space travel (until ME:A where someone finally managed their own tech. - it was hinted at in the ME games - I believe the Asari were doing it.)  If there are sapient races that are only now reaching their moons.. or colonizing their solar system - but have no Relays and therefore have not touched the Citadel... no Reaper invasion.

 

So it stands to reason that the Reapers would be localized in the Milky Way Galaxy on account of their means of locating sapient races (those who are registered in the Citadel navigational computers)

[UpUpAway]

But the Reapers could never do what they do without the Citadel and the Relays.

 

The only reason that the Reapers are capable of wiping out sapient life is because of all the astronomical information loaded into the Citadel. 

 

Even with a "perfect run" it took them over a century to finish off the Protheans.

 

You don't just "scan" a galaxy and detect life.  The spaces we're talking about are unbelievably large. 

 

Life developed along the Relays - no relays, no space travel (until ME:A where someone finally managed their own tech. - it was hinted at in the ME games - I believe the Asari were doing it.)  If there are sapient races that are only now reaching their moons.. or colonizing their solar system - but have no Relays and therefore have not touched the Citadel... no Reaper invasion.

 

So it stands to reason that the Reapers would be localized in the Milky Way Galaxy on account of their means of locating sapient races (those who are registered in the Citadel navigational computers)

 

The fact remains... the Reapers are not localized in the Milky Way Galaxy... they leave the galaxy between each and every cycle and "retreat to dark space."  This is irrefutable.  What they do while in dark space is unknown... Vigil theorizes that they hibernate and leave one of their kind behind to keep tabs on things... but he doesn't actually know if the do hibernate... and the question remains... why would a synthetic construct with an infinite life span have to ever hibernate?

[AngryFrozenWater]

But notice both the Leviathan and the Catalyst say that its mandate is to preserve life.  At any cost.  It also determined that conflict between organic and synthetic life was "inevitable"  And that without the cycles (its "solution") synthetics would eventually outstrip their creators and wipe out all organic life.

 

Keep in mind, this is all "inevitable" 

 

Now intergalactic travel is known to us to be possible.  MEA couldn't happen otherwise.  Let's also assume that the Reapers know this.  They are far, far more advanced than the current cycle, this is not a stretch.

 

Let us also assume there is organic life in Andromeda.  Again, reasonable assumption.  Now the thinking of the Catalyst is organic life=>eventual synthetic life=>synthetic life surpasses organic life=>conflict=>synthetic life destroys organic life.

 

The Reapers' mandate is to preserve organic life.  Therefore it cannot allow this to happen.

 

But wait!  Perhaps its mandate is limited to the Milky Way!  Well, first off there is zero evidence of this.  We've only seen them referred to in the context of the Milky Way, but that's where everyone lives.  There is no evidence that the Reapers are constrained from operating elsewhere.  At least not by programming.

 

But even if that were the case, remember, travel to other galaxies is still possible.  And it is "inevitable" that synthetics will arise and destroy all organic life.  that means synthetics from other galaxies can evolve to traverse dark space, come to the Milky Way, and come into conflict with organics, wiping them out.

 

Therefore, it would behoove the Reapers to travel to other galaxies and make sure synthetics never arise there either, if only to protect the Milky Way from others.  After all, who is to say that synthetics, left unchecked, couldn't evolve to a point where they could match or even exceed the Reapers?

AFAIK only the leviathans mention "mandate" and "at any cost". I've just checked a clip of the extended cut and its not there. Brrr. Not doing that again.

To add some variations: The leviathans may not be the first to create a similar Intelligence here or elsewhere in the universe. Perhaps the remnants are the unlucky ones who selected synthesis in Andromeda. There are many possibilities in an infinite universe. There is no evidence of any of those.

There is no evidence that the reapers have expanded their territory either.

 

What we do know is that the destroy option appears to be the safest one, because it destroys the reapers and their tech in our galaxy. I go for that one.

Let's see what happens in ME:A.

[ModernAcademic]

It's been mentioned in magazine articles that this is not the direction BW wants to take for Andromeda. The guiding principle of the game will be "the species of the Milky Way fighting to establish a home in a foreign galaxy, where, this time, THEY are the invaders".

 

So no super intelligence controlling the fate of organics, nor giant machines coming to destroy everything.

[AngryFrozenWater]

...

Yes. I see that I had to be more clear about emphasizing that the leviathans and the intelligence claiming it to be a local galactic problem. For me it was obvious, because that was handled in the sources I've provided.

I have a tip for you too. You talk about "personal agenda's" and such. Leave such parts out. They only add to fueling flame wars.

Thanks for your response.

[AngryFrozenWater]

The fact remains... the Reapers are not localized in the Milky Way Galaxy... they leave the galaxy between each and every cycle and "retreat to dark space."  This is irrefutable.  What they do while in dark space is unknown... Vigil theorizes that they hibernate and leave one of their kind behind to keep tabs on things... but he doesn't actually know if the do hibernate... and the question remains... why would a synthetic construct with an infinite life span have to ever hibernate?

It's only a fact when there is evidence that the reapers left the galaxy. And there is none. It is known what the reapers do in dark space. They hibernate. That implies no motion.

 

Yes. They keep one of their kind in a monitoring state. In ME1 it was Sovereign.

 

There is a good reason to hibernate. They are active only when they need to reap. Besides storing knowledge, that's what they are designed for. We also know from the leviathans that the Intelligence is trying to speed up the time between cycles. That would contribute to greater efficiency: Less down time.

 

The leviathans also mention that the Intelligence is using the cycles to run an experiment.

 

Leviathan: The Intelligence has one purpose: preservation of life. That purpose has not been fulfilled. It directed the reapers to create the mass relays - to speed the time between cycles for greatest efficiency. The galaxy itself became an experiment. Evolution its tool.

Shepard: Will it ever end?

Leviathan: Unknown. Until the Intelligence finds what it is looking for, the harvest will continue.
 

Note that, just like the entire conversation with the leviathans, again the focus is on the galaxy. That is the context of the entire conversation. From the above quotes we know that harvesting the galaxy is a temporary solution. It is looking for a permanent solution and we know from the ending that it found one. Synthesis.

 

Child: It is the ideal solution. Now that we know it is possible, it is inevitable we will reach synthesis.

 

That's probably the most important statement in the ending. It apparently found what it was looking for. Synthesis. The Intelligence doesn't know that the leviathans still hide somewhere in the galaxy. So it presents its finding to a member of the surviving species: Shepard.

 

Now the three choices make sense. It doesn't need the cyclical harvest any more, which was a duct tape solution, but also served as an experiment. The experiment is finished. An ideal solution has been found and Shepard can do with it what he or she wants.

 

The intelligence offers synthesis now. It's like "I think it's the best solution. Take it if you want to."

It is even willing to hand over control. It's much like "If you want to find a better solution then I'll offer you my resources. I don't need them anymore. Good luck."

It does not care if you select the destruct option, either. It found the ideal solution. So there is no reason for its existence anymore. It will warn you that when you select this option that the conflict between organics and synthetics will return eventually. It's a way of saying "Don't belief me? Good luck."

 

The Intelligence finished its task: That task was to find a solution for the conflict. It found the ideal one. So its job is done. There is no need for its existence anymore.

[UpUpAway]

It's only a fact when there is evidence that the reapers left the galaxy. And there is none. It is known what the reapers do in dark space. They hibernate. That implies no motion.

 

Yes. They keep one of their kind in a monitoring state. In ME1 it was Sovereign.

 

There is a good reason to hibernate. They are active only when they need to reap. Besides storing knowledge, that's what they are designed for. We also know from the leviathans that the Intelligence is trying to speed up the time between cycles. That would contribute to greater efficiency: Less down time.

 

The leviathans also mention that the Intelligence is using the cycles to run an experiment.

 

Leviathan: The Intelligence has one purpose: preservation of life. That purpose has not been fulfilled. It directed the reapers to create the mass relays - to speed the time between cycles for greatest efficiency. The galaxy itself became an experiment. Evolution its tool.

Shepard: Will it ever end?

Leviathan: Unknown. Until the Intelligence finds what it is looking for, the harvest will continue.
 

Note that, just like the entire conversation with the leviathans, again the focus is on the galaxy. That is the context of the entire conversation. From the above quotes we know that harvesting the galaxy is a temporary solution. It is looking for a permanent solution and we know from the ending that it found one. Synthesis.

 

Child: It is the ideal solution. Now that we know it is possible, it is inevitable we will reach synthesis.

 

That's probably the most important statement in the ending. It apparently found what it was looking for. Synthesis. The Intelligence doesn't know that the leviathans still hide somewhere in the galaxy. So it presents its finding to a member of the surviving species: Shepard.

 

Now the three choices make sense. It doesn't need the cyclical harvest any more, which was a duct tape solution, but also served as an experiment. The experiment is finished. And ideal solution has been found and Shepard can do with it what he or she wants.

 

The intelligence offers synthesis now. It's like "I think it's the best solution. Take it if you want to."

It is even willing to hand over control. It's much like "If you want to find a better solution then I'll offer you my resources. I don't need them anymore. Good luck."

It does not care if you select the destruct option, either. It found the ideal solution. So there is no reason for its existence anymore. It will warn you that when you select this option that the conflict between organics and synthetics will return eventually. It's a way of saying "Don't belief me? Good luck."

 

The Intelligence finished its task: That task was to find a solution for the conflict. It found the ideal one. So its job is done. There is no need for its existence anymore.

 

The Reapers reside in dark space: the vast, mostly starless space between galaxies.

 

That's a direct quote from the Wiki.  Therefore, it is an irrefutable fact that the Reapers leave the Milky Way Galaxy for 50,000 years at a time.  In my previous post, I asked the question "Why would they need to hibernate?  Something which is not really explained in the Wiki.  Also not explained is whether or not "hibernate" is the only thing they do while outside the galactic limit.  Is the only thing you do at home is sleep? 

 

Since no Milky Way organic species are known to have left the galaxy themselves, none of them (and, therefore, none of us) can really be 100% absolutely certain that all the Reapers do in dark space is hibernate (just outside the galactic limit).  Therefore, the information about the Reapers hibernating can only be based on the speculation of the ME Milky Way inhabitants.

 

As a result, this is an area where Bioware could decide, if the wished, to take the Reaper story in an entirely different direction.  I'm not saying they will (so you can untwist your panties)... I'm saying we don't know and that there is really nothing stopping them from doing so.

 

BTW, I do not favor a single choice for the ME3 ending... I've used them all depending on the characterization of "my Shepard" for  a particular playthrough... and I've played ME3 through at least 15 times.  I also have no particular "grudge" against any of the endings... they all "work" on some level for me... are they great endings?  Certainly not... there is much that could have been done to make any and all of the ME games better than they were... but I'm certainly not upset about any of it... nor will I be upset about anything that Bioware might decide to do with ME:A.  If it looks like I'll like the game once it's released, I'll buy it.  If not, I won't.  Simple.

[Degs29]

I fully expect the Reapers to have been to Andromeda in the past.  Without mass relays, how are we to travel around the galaxy?  Unless the Andromeda residents developed Mass Effect technology themselves.

 

The Reapers may no longer be a threat, but I think they've traveled to Andromeda.  It would only take them 231 years to do so and they hang out in dark space for 50,000 years anyway!  I wouldn't be surprised if they actually rotated the complete annihilation of advanced life through multiple galaxies. 

 

So, did we get them all in ME3?  Or are there more out there?

[AngryFrozenWater]

It is an irrefutable fact that the Reapers leave the Milky Way Galaxy for 50,000 years at a time.  I asked the question "Why would they need to hibernate?  Something which is not really explained in the Wiki.  Also not explained is whether or not "hibernate" is the only thing they do while outside the galactic limit.  Is the only thing you do at home is sleep?  Since no Milky Way organic species are known to have left the galaxy themselves, none of them (and, therefore, none of us can really be 100% absolutely certain that all the Reapers do in dark space is hibernate (just outside the galactic limit).  This is an area where Bioware could decide, if the wished, to take the Reaper story in an entirely different direction.  I'm not saying they will... I'm saying we don't know and that there is really nothing stopping them from doing so.

There is no evidence of your ideas. The game tells us what the reapers do in between harvests: They hibernate. The game is very specific about the location: The space in between galaxies. Of course you may choose not to believe that, but that does not make your ideas true.

[Medhia_Nox]

There is no evidence of your ideas. The game tells us what the reapers do in between harvests: They hibernate. The game is very specific about the location: The space in between galaxies. Of course you may choose not to believe that, but that does not make your ideas true.

 

 The funny part is... not every "space in between galaxies" leads to the Andromeda Galaxy.

 

Do people even have any concept of how much "space" is between both galaxies? 

 

Then - of course... what happens if they hibernate on the opposite side of the Milky Way from the Andromeda Galaxy?

Nothing... at all.. indicates that 1) They cover the VAST expanse between galaxies or 2)  That when they do head out of the Milky Way - they are going in the direction of Andromeda.

 

Does it mean it's impossible that they got to Andromeda?  No.  But again... you don't just hit the "Explore Space" button.  Reapers arriving at the edge of Andromeda would be pointless without 1) a citadel 2) vast astronomy charts detailing there whereabouts of every civ

 

NOTE:  A story I would have found interesting is... is that at the end of ME:A we discover there is an Andromeda citadel and that we actually provide the Andromeda galaxy the means to totally prevent the Reaper invasion because of our knowledge thereby punctuating the Reaper story forever in the ME universe by showing that it will never happen for the ME:A inhabitants.  

[straykat]

I'd only think they'd go to Andromeda as part of a concerted effort... as part of the Catalyst's goals. Not some random thing. Of course they wouldn't make it there that way

[UpUpAway]

There is no evidence of your ideas. The game tells us what the reapers do in between harvests: They hibernate. The game is very specific about the location: The space in between galaxies. Of course you may choose not to believe that, but that does not make your ideas true.

 

What freakin' ideas of mine... My only point has been that they DO travel outside the galactic boundaries because dark space iS outside the galactic boundary.  THAT is irrefutable fact.  The lore states they hibernate... but it doesn't actually state that they ONLY hibernate in dark space and there is some logic to them not having to hibernate for 50,000 years at a time.  Show me some evidence from the game that says that any Milky Way species has actually seen Reapers hibernating out in dark space.  This makes an opening for Bioware to "insert" new lore, IF THEY WISH and that makes is POSSIBLE..  The "truth" will be whatever BIOWARE actually puts into ME:A and only what BIOWARE actually puts into ME:A (and we won't know any of that until AFTER the game is released.  That neither you nor I nor anyone except Bioware know the "truth" now is the only "belief" I have.)

[LogicGunn]

I hope the reapers never found a reason to take their harvesting outside of the Milky Way cause I'm totally Reapered out. 

Leviathans on the other hand...

[AngryFrozenWater]

What freakin' ideas of mine... My only point has been that they DO travel outside the galactic boundaries because dark space iS outside the galactic boundary.  THAT is irrefutable fact.  The lore states they hibernate... but it doesn't actually state that they ONLY hibernate in dark space and there is some logic to them not having to hibernate for 50,000 years at a time.  Show me some evidence from the game that says that any Milky Way species has actually seen Reapers hibernating out in dark space.  This makes an opening for Bioware to "insert" new lore, IF THEY WISH.  The "truth" will be whatever BIOWARE actually puts into ME:A (and we won't know any of that until AFTER the game is released.  (That neither you nor I nor anyone except Bioware know the "truth" now is the only "belief" I have.)

They travel to the dark space between galaxies. That has been accomplished. There is no in-game evidence that the reapers were interested in any galaxy other than the MW. Anything else are your ideas. They sound cool, but that's all there is to them.

 

And no. I don't have to come up with evidence to show that the reapers were hibernating in dark space. The game tells me they did. It never tells me to doubt that. It's cool to speculate about that they did something else, but that doesn't make that speculation true. If you think that something else happened then it is you to come up with evidence. Not me.

[straykat]

They travel to the dark space between galaxies. That has been accomplished. There is no in-game evidence that the reapers were interested in any galaxy other than the MW. Anything else are your ideas. They sound cool, but that's all there is to them.

 

And no. I don't have to come up with evidence to show that the reapers were hibernating in dark space. The game tells me they did. It never tells me to doubt that. It's cool to speculate about that they did something else, but that doesn't make that speculation true. If you think that something else happened then it is you to come up with evidence. Not me.

 

No evidence, but it can easily be inferred as an "interest" just by the Catalyst's goals. The Harvest isn't just some bullshit hobby, merely for the Milky Way. It's concerned with higher level goals about life itself.

 

The second thing they'd need is capability.. which they might have. They've existed for millions (MILLIONS) of years and yet.... a ****** human just made it to Andromeda now? Come on.

 

It'd have been better off if they didn't make this game, and then I wouldn't care. But now it begs the question.

[UpUpAway]

They travel to the dark space between galaxies. That has been accomplished. There is no in-game evidence that the reapers were interested in any galaxy other than the MW. Anything else are your ideas. They sound cool, but that's all there is to them.

 

And no. I don't have to come up with evidence to show that the reapers were hibernating in dark space. The game tells me they did. It never tells me to doubt that. It's cool to speculate about that they did something else, but that doesn't make that speculation true. If you think that something else happened then it is you to come up with evidence. Not me.

 

Your conflating the belief that something is true with the belief that something is possible.  I believe it is possible for Bioware to insert lore in this area IF THEY WISH.  I DO NOT HAVE COME UP WITH EVIDENCE TO SHOW IT IS POSSIBLE FOR THEM TO WRITE WHATEVER THEY DARN WELL PLEASE... It's their game.

 

... and BTW... I'm putting on my ignore list.

[AngryFrozenWater]

No evidence, but it can easily be inferred as an "interest" just by the Catalyst's goals. The Harvest isn't just some bullshit hobby, merely for the Milky Way. It's concerned with higher level goals about life itself.

 

The second thing they'd need is capability.. which they might have. They've existed for millions (MILLIONS) of years and yet.... a ****** human just made it to Andromeda now? Come on.

 

It'd have been better off if they didn't make this game, and then I wouldn't care. But now it begs the question.

Yes, there was no evidence that the Intelligence had an interest in other galaxies. That's not odd, because it was outside its scope.

 

The task of the Intelligence was to find a solution to the conflict in the MW. It first used cyclical harvest as a solution, but through research found the ideal solution. Synthesis. It even believes that it is inevitable. It presents its findings and gave us the choice to use it. After that it has completed its task. It doesn't tell Shepard "Hey, here is the solution, but we've got to run. There are other galaxies to save." Instead, it is even OK that you destroy the reapers and its tech. It would be foolish if you did destroy them, so it tells you, because the conflict will come back. It recommends synthesis as the ideal solution. But if Shepard thinks he or she can find a better solution, then it even offers Shepard its resources.

[straykat]

Yes, there was no evidence that the Intelligence had an interest in other galaxies. That's not odd, because it was outside its scope.

 

The task of the Intelligence was to find a solution to the conflict in the MW. It first used cyclical harvest as a solution, but through research found the ideal solution. Synthesis. It even believes that it is inevitable. It presents its findings and gave us the choice to use it. After that it has completed its task. It doesn't tell Shepard "Hey, here is the solution, but we've got to run. There are other galaxies to save." Instead, it is even OK that you destroy the reapers and its tech. It would be foolish if you did destroy them, so it tells you, because the conflict will come back. It recommends synthesis as the ideal solution. But if Shepard thinks it can find a better solution, then it even offers Shepard its resources.

 

How is it outside it's scope? I do not understand this. It's concerned about synthetic and organic conflict. Not the Milky Way specifically and/or necessarily.

 

And it's also a computer. It's geared towards algorithms and abstracts. Not just details. To say otherwise is like saying it's no better than some factory/assembly line machine, built for one type of process.

 

Of course, it could be that stupid and it's not an AI at all... but that's another story

[AngryFrozenWater]

How is it outside it's scope? I do not understand this. It's concerned about synthetic and organic conflict. Not the Milky Way specifically and/or necessarily.

 

And it's also a computer. It's geared towards algorithms and abstracts. Not just details. To say otherwise is like saying it's no better than some factory/assembly line machine, built for one type of process.

 

Of course, it could be that stupid and it's not an AI at all... but that's another story

Ghehe. Yeah. We only see a rather binary approach to solving the problem within the galaxy. Nothing within the trilogy points to something else.

 

I don't like it much, because I rather see it taken to the logical extreme. But it doesn't appear to go that way.

 

If it is supposed to be a true and advanced AI then, yes, there is a lot wrong with it. For an example: One can can argue that it has no morality, but if it was concerned with preserving civilizations then it would know that these would value their freedom more than ascension in reaper form. It claims that it embodies the collective intelligence of all reapers. The stored knowledge of the harvested species must include that the species were not exactly happy with the harvest. Yet, the Intelligence is perfectly OK with cyclical genocide and eugenics. That leads me to believe that it thinks like a machine and that it doesn't consider all angles. It perfectly fits the ending.

[Medhia_Nox]

No evidence, but it can easily be inferred as an "interest" just by the Catalyst's goals. The Harvest isn't just some bullshit hobby, merely for the Milky Way. It's concerned with higher level goals about life itself.

 

The second thing they'd need is capability.. which they might have. They've existed for millions (MILLIONS) of years and yet.... a ****** human just made it to Andromeda now? Come on.

 

It'd have been better off if they didn't make this game, and then I wouldn't care. But now it begs the question.

 

This asks the question - why would a contented "species" ever strive for anything.  Furthermore - why would ANY artificial species ever have ambition.

 

Anthropomorphism in telling the concept of AI is absolutely terrible.  We cannot imagine a race NOT wanting to expand and explore - because we want to expand and explore.   

 

As for the directive of the Catalyst - if it is a logical entity - it would know that policing multiple galaxies would be preposterous.  In fact - it would be dangerous as a whole to the directive.

 

1)  You know the Milky Way is under "direct control".

 

2)  You cannot know this about other galaxies (millions of years is nothing to a 13 BILLION year old galaxy). 

 

3)  Encountering entities in other galaxies that endanger the directive would also endanger it for the only place you know you have control. 

[straykat]

This asks the question - why would a contented "species" ever strive for anything.  Furthermore - why would ANY artificial species ever have ambition.

 

Anthropomorphism in telling the concept of AI is absolutely terrible.  We cannot imagine a race NOT wanting to expand and explore - because we want to expand and explore.   

 

As for the directive of the Catalyst - if it is a logical entity - it would know that policing multiple galaxies would be preposterous.  In fact - it would be dangerous as a whole to the directive.

 

1)  You know the Milky Way is under "direct control".

 

2)  You cannot know this about other galaxies (millions of years is nothing to a 13 BILLION year old galaxy). 

 

3)  Encountering entities in other galaxies that endanger the directive would also endanger it for the only place you know you have control. 

 

Not policing. I only would expect curiosity and research at least. Scouting. Gathering data. It already has a theory about Synthesis, for example. Why would they not investigate their options.. see if anything or anyone else has discovered it. Or wondered what they've discovered at all. Something brand new. Rather than wait for some ape to fall in their lap. 

 

The Catalyst never wanted the Harvests. It was meant to be a temporary measure. What it ultimately wanted was a permanent solution. And it wasn't going to find it in the Milky Way.