457 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

Question is - how long have they perhaps had?  The Milky Way, I believe, is estimated to be 12 billion years old.  I don't think the game tells us how long ago the Leviathan species first evolved, etc.

 

Another question might be, how many cycles would it take for them to become "legion" in numbers... if it requires the harvest of billions of individual humans to construct just one Reaper and each cycle of 50,000 years harvests only 1 to 6 Milky Way species to create those Reapers.

The Reapers have been operating for a billion years or more.

 

The Leviathan of Dis was a billion years old and it is not the oldest Reaper (that's Harbinger)

 

Not to mention the Catalyst was able to (nearly) wipe out the Leviathans without "true" Reapers at all.

[UpUpAway95]

The Reapers have been operating for a billion years or more.

 

The Leviathan of Dis was a billion years old and it is not the oldest Reaper (that's Harbinger)

 

Not to mention the Catalyst was able to (nearly) wipe out the Leviathans without "true" Reapers at all.

 

Agree... they've been in existence for at least a billion years... but I'm saying that 12 billion minus 50,000 years would be the maximum since they seem to have been at least created within the Milky Way Galaxy by Leviathan and the Milky Way Galaxy is estimated to be 12 billion years old.

 

I also agree that another "hole" in the lore is that the "chicken" vs. "egg" situation regarding that first harvest.  How the Catalyst was able to harvest the Leviathan species prior to creating Harbinger (who was made from harvest Leviathan's) is another question.  Did harvesting just 1 Leviathan make an complete Reaper in the Leviathan image rather than taking "billions" of humans to make just one Proto-Reaper (per ME2)?

 

As In Exile has indicated... really we're all just speculating over lore that is, of and by itself, "complete gibberish."  I'm not sure why people object to Bioware messing with this lore to create ME:A.  I personally think that throwing a bunch of the old lore out the window and replacing it with new, lore that has a shot at least of being somewhat more consistent, could vastly improve the writing quality of ME:A from the ME Trilogy.  However, sadly, a lot of fans don't seem to be prepared to give Bioware the "artistic license" room they need to do just that.

 

I'd be perfectly happy if ME:A is just "Mass Effect" in name only... essentially a completely new IP just bearing the same name as an old one.  Yeah, our decisions in the ME Trilogy won't matter, it will be a new setting, etc. etc. - but I can instead look forward to a whole new game.

[Yermogi]

For the sake of ease, I'm going to assume that the writers are going to simply put it down to "The Reapers never left the Milky Way because their programming only dealt with the Milky Way." Which, to me is a perfectly logical point. Inter-galactic travel is tricky at best, and a well-established group of people would only want to leave because they had to, such as in the case of Ryder and Co.

 

This is what I think was/is the reasoning for why Ryder and Co. leave the Milky Way: Before the events of ME3, a bunch of people belonging to every race and species (or at least the ones well represented) gather together - they have one common thread of believing that the Reapers will invade and will kill everything. So they pool their resources and create the Andromeda Project, or whatever name they're going to have for it in the next game. Maybe they'd have started this project after the initial attack on the Citadel, maybe they'd have started it beforehand after discovering the Reapers some other way, but either way, the Project is to ensure the survival of their many species and cultures, and for the sake of security, only a few people know about it. So before the events of ME3, they take off into the depths of Andromeda without looking back because, hey, it would be safe for them to assume that everything back home is going to be very shortly f*cked up by a bunch of machines, and everyone else is trusting in a person (Shepard) who may or may not (but probably won't) be able to save them. It would make sense for them to try to put their origins behind them, because as far as they know life as they knew it back home is gone, and in some ways they're right, given the different kinds of endings there are.

 

But my point there was that this group (if my belief regarding the timing and reasonings for their leaving are correct) are only leaving the Milky Way and trying to start a new home is because they feel that they absolutely have to in order to survive. If they thought they could stay in the Milky Way and not get turned into a bunch of gooey paste, they probably would have. They left only under extreme duress so that their people wouldn't go extinct like so many others before them.

 

Now, let's look at the Leviathans and the Reapers. The Leviathans had it good. Real good. They ran the known galaxy and had everything they needed. They had no outside threats or any species that could compare. Would some of them have tried to explore another galaxy? Possibly, but why would they, outside of pure curiosity? They had everything they needed. Who knows if they could even survive in another galaxy. It would be a risky venture costing lots of resources with questionable payoffs. I just don't see them bothering with exploration outside of their own galaxy (which hasn't been explored completely even up to the point of the first game if I'm remembering correctly), especially given their attitudes towards being the greatest thing to happen ever.

 

And the Reapers were originally created by the Leviathans. If you wanted to get really specific, you could say that the Intelligence made the Reapers, but the Leviathans made the Intelligence, so either way they started it. Why would the Leviathans bother with programming their creations with anything other than "preserving life" which to them would have been within that one galaxy? The Reapers were a means to an end- they have spent millions of years harvesting life within the galaxy on that one mandate, so why would they bother exploring other galaxies? Could they? Without a doubt they could, but they don't think like an organic life would, they think within the 'limitations' of their programming, which I think pertains to the Milky Way galaxy, and only that galaxy. If the Leviathans wanted to explore other galaxies, they would have made different machines to explore, or they would have gone themselves. The Reapers were intended for a much more basic purpose that went completely out of control.

 

Personally, I think it's more likely that we'll encounter other races who also made an exodus from the Milky Way to escape the Reapers, rather than finding Reapers/Leviathans already there. Or maybe we will find evidence of a Leviathan expedition, but I doubt we'll see anything significant from the Reapers in the next series. That chapter is over and done with (thank God).

[UpUpAway95]

For the sake of ease, I'm going to assume that the writers are going to simply put it down to "The Reapers never left the Milky Way because their programming only dealt with the Milky Way." Which, to me is a perfectly logical point. Inter-galactic travel is tricky at best, and a well-established group of people would only want to leave because they had to, such as in the case of Ryder and Co.

 

This is what I think was/is the reasoning for why Ryder and Co. leave the Milky Way: Before the events of ME3, a bunch of people belonging to every race and species (or at least the ones well represented) gather together - they have one common thread of believing that the Reapers will invade and will kill everything. So they pool their resources and create the Andromeda Project, or whatever name they're going to have for it in the next game. Maybe they'd have started this project after the initial attack on the Citadel, maybe they'd have started it beforehand after discovering the Reapers some other way, but either way, the Project is to ensure the survival of their many species and cultures, and for the sake of security, only a few people know about it. So before the events of ME3, they take off into the depths of Andromeda without looking back because, hey, it would be safe for them to assume that everything back home is going to be very shortly f*cked up by a bunch of machines, and everyone else is trusting in a person (Shepard) who may or may not (but probably won't) be able to save them. It would make sense for them to try to put their origins behind them, because as far as they know life as they knew it back home is gone, and in some ways they're right, given the different kinds of endings there are.

 

But my point there was that this group (if my belief regarding the timing and reasonings for their leaving are correct) are only leaving the Milky Way and trying to start a new home is because they feel that they absolutely have to in order to survive. If they thought they could stay in the Milky Way and not get turned into a bunch of gooey paste, they probably would have. They left only under extreme duress so that their people wouldn't go extinct like so many others before them.

 

Now, let's look at the Leviathans and the Reapers. The Leviathans had it good. Real good. They ran the known galaxy and had everything they needed. They had no outside threats or any species that could compare. Would some of them have tried to explore another galaxy? Possibly, but why would they, outside of pure curiosity? They had everything they needed. Who knows if they could even survive in another galaxy. It would be a risky venture costing lots of resources with questionable payoffs. I just don't see them bothering with exploration outside of their own galaxy (which hasn't been explored completely even up to the point of the first game if I'm remembering correctly), especially given their attitudes towards being the greatest thing to happen ever.

 

And the Reapers were originally created by the Leviathans. If you wanted to get really specific, you could say that the Intelligence made the Reapers, but the Leviathans made the Intelligence, so either way they started it. Why would the Leviathans bother with programming their creations with anything other than "preserving life" which to them would have been within that one galaxy? The Reapers were a means to an end- they have spent millions of years harvesting life within the galaxy on that one mandate, so why would they bother exploring other galaxies? Could they? Without a doubt they could, but they don't think like an organic life would, they think within the 'limitations' of their programming, which I think pertains to the Milky Way galaxy, and only that galaxy. If the Leviathans wanted to explore other galaxies, they would have made different machines to explore, or they would have gone themselves. The Reapers were intended for a much more basic purpose that went completely out of control.

 

Personally, I think it's more likely that we'll encounter other races who make an exodus from the Milky Way to escape the Reapers, rather than finding Reapers/Leviathans already there. Or maybe we will find evidence of a Leviathan expedition, but I doubt we'll see anything significant from the Reapers in the next series. That chapter is over and done with (thank God).

 

I'm not disagreeing with you... There is one thing though that I'd like to point out.  Why would they go unless they absolutely have to.  Everything you've put forth has been questioned already about human space programs.  The larger question here is:  We, humanity, have no known "alien" threats to us, space programs have huge costs associated with them... and yet, we send probes, we send up manned missions that have cost the lives of many astronauts and cosmonauts, we're continually reaching out into space as far as we absolutely can... so, why do we go?

[Yermogi]

I'm not disagreeing with you... There is one thing though that I'd like to point out.  Why would they go unless they absolutely have to.  Everything you've put forth has been questioned already about human space programs.  The larger question here is:  We, humanity, have no known "alien" threats to us, space programs have huge costs associated with them... and yet, we send probes, we send up manned missions that have cost the lives of many astronauts and cosmonauts, we're continually reaching out into space as far as we absolutely can... so, why do we go?

I think you're assuming that Leviathans would think like humans think. We, as humans, are naturally curious and adventurous. We want to know how things work (generally speaking, of course), and we want to discover. But that is not necessarily how an alien race would think, especially one that sees itself as being at the top of the food chain with good reason. Leviathans were also content to sit in the depths of an ocean for millions of years while the worlds around them died countless deaths, and that's something that humans wouldn't be satisfied with. 

 

So yes, we, humanity, explore and adventure and send out probes, etc. But that does not mean that other races, alien races with different ways of thinking, would feel the need to do the same, or even be interested in such. As far as I can tell, the Leviathans only started to explore space to get more thralls, not because they had a deep-seated urge to see the galaxy around them on a road trip. It doesn't make sense to me that the same group that explored purely for the sake of gathering more resources would then bother traveling to another galaxy just to get more slaves and food, when they could just hop over to the next solar system and take care of it there.

[UpUpAway95]

I think you're assuming that Leviathans would think like humans think. We, as humans, are naturally curious and adventurous. We want to know how things work (generally speaking, of course), and we want to discover. But that is not necessarily how an alien race would think, especially one that sees itself as being at the top of the food chain with good reason. Leviathans were also content to sit in the depths of an ocean for millions of years while the worlds around them died countless deaths, and that's something that humans wouldn't be satisfied with. 

 

So yes, we, humanity, explore and adventure and send out probes, etc. But that does not mean that other races, alien races with different ways of thinking, would feel the need to do the same, or even be interested in such. As far as I can tell, the Leviathans only started to explore space to get more thralls, not because they had a deep-seated urge to see the galaxy around them on a road trip. It doesn't make sense to me that the same group that explored purely for the sake of gathering more resources would then bother traveling to another galaxy just to get more slaves and food, when they could just hop over to the next solar system and take care of it there.

 

I'm not assuming anything... you're reading that into my comment. 

 

I'm asking an IRL question.  Mass Effect is, in writing style, a running commentary on IRL human issues.  Turian society, for example, is largely recognized as being set up as an anologue for Roman society... and there are many, many examples of such symbolism buried in the series.  So, why can't Bioware write in the "questions" we ask about our own tendency to just want to explore?  What's stopping them... other than a fan base that wants to lock them in to their own idea about what ME:A should be about?  Bioware can write ME:A in any darned way they please... they own the franchise, they created the lore... so, they have the license and ability to write into ME:A anything they want.

[Yermogi]

I'm not assuming anything... you're reading that into my comment. 

 

I'm asking an IRL question.  Mass Effect is, in writing style, a running commentary on IRL human issues.  Turian society, for example, is largely recognized as being set up as an anologue for Roman society... and there are many, many examples of such symbolism buried in the series.  So, why can't Bioware write in the "questions" we ask about our own tendency to just want to explore?  What's stoppying them... other than a fan base that wants to lock them in to their own idea about what ME:A should be about.  Bioware can write ME:A in any darned way they please... the own the franchise, they created the lore... so, they have the license and ability to write into ME:A anything they want.

Ah, so you're thinking about the philosophy behind the game? If so, I don't think that your question can be answered by anyone outside of the head-writers themselves. I was talking about the in-game lore itself.

[In Exile]

I'd actually see that as strong evidence that they would go beyond the galaxy. As it shows the Catalyst is not constrained by the bounds the Leviathans intended.

"preserve life at all costs" to the Reapers meant "mulch all advanced organic life and 'preserve' them as immortal Reapers" Clearly they too their orders to a "logical" extreme.

So why stop there?

But it's not a logical extreme. It's a nonsensical extreme. And that matters, because when you establish your AI runs on troll logic you can't make reasonable guesses as to what it does.

[UpUpAway95]

Ah, so you're thinking about the philosophy behind the game? If so, I don't think that your question can be answered by anyone outside of the head-writers themselves. I was talking about the in-game lore itself.

 

Now... at last... someone who is starting to understand where it is I've been coming from.  Is it POSSIBLE that we will see Reapers and/or Leviathan in Andromeda?  Yes, it is... BECAUSE the lore is so darned inconsistent and BECAUSE Bioware is going to have to almost inevitably Retcon some things to connect ME:A to the ME Trilogy... the possibility is there... ONLY limited by what Bioware might decide to "write into" the lore.  Nothing about Andromeda can really be answered by the existing lore... because Andromeda was not in the minds of the writers of the ME Trilogy when they were writing that trilogy.

[Yermogi]

Question is - how long have they perhaps had?  The Milky Way, I believe, is estimated to be 12 billion years old.  I don't think the game tells us how long ago the Leviathan species first evolved, etc.... but, presumably it would be at least 50,000 years less than this this.

Well, I believe that in the first game Harbinger says that there have been over 600 reapings in the galaxy. I'm not sure if the exact number was 630 or 680, but if you take either of those and multiply it by 50,000, you get something in the 30 million range. I'm not sure how old Leviathans live to be, but we could assume that they've been around 50-40 million years as a species. I don't believe that any race, even Leviathans, could be a billion years old.

[Yermogi]

Now... at last... someone who is starting to understand where it is I've been coming from.  Is it POSSIBLE that we will see Reapers and/or Leviathan in Andromeda?  Yes, it is... BECAUSE the lore is so darned inconsistent and BECAUSE Bioware is going to have to almost inevitably Retcon some things to connect ME:A to the ME Trilogy... the possibility is there... ONLY limited by what Bioware might decide to "write into" the lore.  Nothing about Andromeda can really be answered by the existing lore... because Andromeda was not in the minds of the writers of the ME Trilogy when they were writing that trilogy.

This is true, it is technically possible because the writers could put it in there. Anything is possible when it comes to the writers putting stuff in the game. I just happen to think that, given how badly received ME3 was, that they will try to distance this new series away from that as much as possible, which, to me, makes it unlikely that we will see much of them in the new games. But, as you say, it is possible that they will in fact be there in some capacity.

[Spectr61]

Where do the Reaper's live/exist between reaping cycles?

[Yermogi]

Where do the Reaper's live/exist between reaping cycles?

In Dark Space, so the empty spaces between the galaxies. They're in hibernation during that time.

[In Exile]

Well, I believe that in the first game Harbinger says that there have been over 600 reapings in the galaxy. I'm not sure if the exact number was 630 or 680, but if you take either of those and multiply it by 50,000, you get something in the 30 million range. I'm not sure how old Leviathans live to be, but we could assume that they've been around 50-40 million years as a species. I don't believe that any race, even Leviathans, could be a billion years old.

The confusion is caused by the Leviathan of Dis retcon.

[UpUpAway95]

In Dark Space, so empty spaces between the galaxies. They're in hibernation during that time.

 

This one is a problematic "assumption" made in the Lore.  The ME Trilogy is based on the idea that "no one except Shepard had encountered Reapers and no one, essentially, believed him/her about the Reapers... Yet, in the lore, we have this absolute assertion that the Reapers hibernate while in dark space.  Yet, Shepard didn't see a Reaper hibernate... no one in the current cycle did and the Protheans didn't really know either... So, in the lore (codex) is written knowledge that the species in the  current "ME universe" had no logical means of knowing.  This is part of the inconsistencies in Bioware's writing and in part is what makes this whole discussion about this thread of "evidence" more than a little ridiculous.

 

What is the only "fact" here is that "dark space" is outside the galaxy... so even to hibernate in dark space, the Reapers have to be capable of leaving galactic space.

[In Exile]

This one is a problematic "assumption" made in the Lore. The ME Trilogy is based on the idea that "no one except Shepard had encountered Reapers and no one, essentially, believed him/her about the Reapers... Yet, in the lore, we have this absolute assertion that the Reapers hibernate in dark space. Yet, Shepard didn't see a Reaper hibernate... no one in the current cycle did and the Protheans didn't really know either... So, in the lore (codex) is written knowledge that the species in the current "ME universe" had no logical means of knowing. This is part of the inconsistencies in Bioware's writing and in part is what makes this whole discussion about this thread of "evidence" more than a little ridiculous.

We get told this by Vigil. As to how it knows, your guess is as good as mine. At that point the writers had basically written in a "**** if we know" reply to its speech about how our goal is to stop sovereign and not understand it.

[Spectr61]

In Dark Space, so the empty spaces between the galaxies. They're in hibernation during that time.

Is there any info, codec, etc., that Dark Space = Intergalactic Space or conversely that Dark Space = Interstellar Space?

[Yermogi]

The confusion is caused by the Leviathan of Dis retcon.

Makes sense, since I never played the DLC, I just read about it. I didn't buy any of the DLCs for the third game, I felt like it was pointless.

 

 

Is there any info, codec, etc., that Dark Space = Intergalactic Space or conversely that Dark Space = Interstellar Space?

As In Exile stated, Vigil tells us so in the first game, and it's never mentioned again. 

[Spectr61]

This one is a problematic "assumption" made in the Lore.  The ME Trilogy is based on the idea that "no one except Shepard had encountered Reapers and no one, essentially, believed him/her about the Reapers... Yet, in the lore, we have this absolute assertion that the Reapers hibernate while in dark space.  Yet, Shepard didn't see a Reaper hibernate... no one in the current cycle did and the Protheans didn't really know either... So, in the lore (codex) is written knowledge that the species in the  current "ME universe" had no logical means of knowing.  This is part of the inconsistencies in Bioware's writing and in part is what makes this whole discussion about this thread of "evidence" more than a little ridiculous.
 
What is the only "fact" here is that "dark space" is outside the galaxy... so even to hibernate in dark space, the Reapers have to be capable of leaving galactic space.

Well said.

If the Reaper's exist extra-galactic between cycles, stipulation; Reaper's have intergalactic travel ability.

[UpUpAway95]

Is there any info, codec, etc., that Dark Space = Intergalactic Space or conversely that Dark Space = Interstellar Space?

 

Yes, Spectr61 - Vigil's dialogue: 

 

But the Citadel is a trap.  The station is actually an enormous mass relay.  One that links to dark space, the empty void beyond the galaxy’s horizon.

 

 

Since relays work in pairs... this also means that there must be at least one relay in dark space - i.e. in the "empty void beyond the galaxy's horizion."

 

--------------------------------------------

 

Makes sense, since I never played the DLC, I just read about it. I didn't buy any of the DLCs for the third game, I felt like it was pointless.

 

 

As In Exile stated, Vigil tells us so in the first game, and it's never mentioned again. 

 

 

We get told this by Vigil. As to how it knows, your guess is as good as mine. At that point the writers had basically written in a "**** if we know" reply to its speech about how our goal is to stop sovereign and not understand it.

 

@Yermogi and In Exile:  That the Protheans don't know this for certain is indicated in Vigil's dialogue.  After Shepard asks "How do the Reapers survive out in dark space?"  Vigil responds immediately with the following:

 

 

We have only theories.  The researchers here came to believe the Reapers enter prolonged states of inactivity to conserve energy.

[Danny Boy 7]

That's what I thought - the original programmed objective was to protect life within the Milky Way, specifically.

 

It's just strange that, considering the huge scope of the trilogy and how 'advanced and incomprehensible' the reapers were supposed to be, they wouldn't ever question that peculiar facet of the objective, when they had already stretched principle enough to think in advance about protecting organic life via wiping out only the higher layers of evolved civilizations because it could be permanently eradicated for good otherwise. If they can think with the kind of foresight to envision that, then I would presume they can envision a scenario in which races from other galaxies evolve and advance unchecked to the point they can travel between galaxies and wreak havoc on this one.

I'm having a hard time wording this, so forgive me if this seems disjointed, but there are actually a lot of reasons why they probably wouldn't exactly.

 

If the Reapers have a goal, then they want to fulfill said goal successfully. If they want to fulfill said goal successfully, then they need to define the parameters of what success would be. Therefore, if the Reapers have a goal, then they need to define the parameters of what success would be.

 

If the Reapers take into account the possibility of invading extra-galactic synthetics, then it is impossible for them to succeed in their goal of preserving organic life. Why, because as mentioned the Reapers could not feasibly patrol/police the entire universe, and so long as there are galaxies with the ability to produce organic life, the Reapers, as per their directive/programming, would assume such life would be inevitably overthrown by their own creations, i.e. synthetics. Thus, in order to protect "life" the Reapers would need to harvest the universe.

 

Some would argue, that the Reapers don't need to protect "all" life, but then by that argument they are involuntarily suggesting that the Reapers put parameters/importance on what life they need to protect, i.e. the Milky Way. The alternative, in which they protect "all" life, forces the Reapers to continually progress throughout the universe as new life continually produces itself. 

 

To be a bit more clear. Some parameters had to have been set, either by the Reapers or the Leviathan as to where the Reaper's jurisdiction ends, otherwise "all" life means "all" life and the Reaper's continually attempt to prevent this theoretical synthetic uprising.

 

Again, some might argue that they could choose only the immediate number of galaxies to defend, but once again that's the Reapers placing an importance on a specific galaxy, namely us, which again points to some innate parameter that suggests that they don't intend to protect "all" life.

 

That's not mentioning how extra-galactic threats could theoretically be so advanced that they could warp from one side of the universe to another. Or that the Reapers, seeing as how no extra-galactic threats has seemingly showed themselves as of yet, didn't think an extra-galactic invasion was probable. Or that they did visit Andromeda and that it showed zero signs of life. Or that Dark Space provided enough of a perimeter that they weren't worried either way. There is just so many reasons why they would focus solely on the Milky Way beyond just that we've no evidence to the contrary.

[UpUpAway95]

Well, I believe that in the first game Harbinger says that there have been over 600 reapings in the galaxy. I'm not sure if the exact number was 630 or 680, but if you take either of those and multiply it by 50,000, you get something in the 30 million range. I'm not sure how old Leviathans live to be, but we could assume that they've been around 50-40 million years as a species. I don't believe that any race, even Leviathans, could be a billion years old.

 

How many "over?"  Again, Harbinger's statement here is not an actual amount.  The only thing that potentially limits the age of the Leviathan species is the age of the galaxy itself... which is estimated to be about 12 to 13 billion years. 

 

However, my point was:   Given the presentation of how Reapers create other Reapers (essentially incorporating the entire civilizations they reap into single, individual reapers, even the  maximum time frame of around 12 billion years would not allow for a large enough number of Reapers to be created for the to be described as "legion" (i.e. innumerable).  If you use the figure of only 600 reapings having taken place with say 6 civilizations being "reaped" in each cycle and each civilization being reduced to 1 Reaper being created... you would then have only 3,600 Reapers in existence... hardly "legion" (unless Bioware is intentionally throwing us a curve ball by using the number of men in the Roman Legion and not the more common meaning of the word "legion" (i.e. innumerable; too many to count) in the dialogue with Sovereign).

[ModernAcademic]

The reapers seem to have individuality that is clear but they don't seem to be able to act independently they all server their creator, the catalysis, which claims to be the embodiment of collective intelligence of all reapers. I view the reapers as all unique but with no 'free will.' They appear to be designed to have none, while EDI appears to be designed to simulate human intelligence and thus has 'free will.' Reapers have a collective will and intelligence but one that is made up of individuals so the "mind" of any single reaper is an 'individual' it's 'will' represents the 'will' of the catalysis. It also seem that its own 'will' if it even has one which is suspect it doesn't is so subverted it has no concept of 'free will.' Which also explains Sovereign's submissiveness of Shepard's resistance. It is irrelevant because Reapers do what they are commanded/programmed to do period, so individual defiance is meaningless to their perspective. 

 

Reapers are a collective intelligence. Hive minds are a collective intelligence. Not all collective intelligences are hive minds. It does appear that while Reapers are a collective intelligence they are not a singular hive mind but rather have a singular 'will.'

 

Not really. Here's the thing. The problem is that the game offers us two explanations for the Reapers origin that contradict each other. I'll try to undo the knot created by the devs. Follow my line of thinking:

 

 

Considering the Leviathan DLC, the Reapers were created AFTER the race of the Leviathans created an Artificial Intelligence. So the Leviathans DIDN'T create the Reapers. Its important to emphasize that. A lot of people simply jump to conclusions and get everything mixed up.

 

This AI was responsible for answering the carmic question: how to avoid organic life from being destroyed by the synthetics they created? That was his only function. 

 

After much time watching organic civilizations, the AI came up with a solution: to preserve life...in a peculiar fashion. And avoid the ultimate destruction of civilizations by their own synthetic servants.

 

That's when the AI created gigantic synthetic carcasses in the shape of the Leviathans. Then, it erradicated the Leviathans from existence and uploaded their minds INTO the carcasses. Thus were born the first machines known as the Reapers. 

 

Each Reaper possesses thousands of ORGANIC minds inside. It's not just one individual. There are THOUSANDS of Leviathans inside each one of them. And these thousands work in unison by an unknown reason. The game doesn't offer any explanation as to how thousands of individuals magically begin to think as one. So the players can speculate at will. Is it because of the AI's process of uploading? Is it because the AI controls them? No answer is provided.

 

 

 

So what REALLY is the Catalyst? What is the Intelligence? It calls itself the representation of the collective mind of the Reapers, their collective will. But it can't be that, since the AI and the Reapers are separate entities. The Reapers ARE NOT AIs. They have organic minds. The Catalyst IS a single AI, operating alone. So how come the Intelligence can represent the Reapers' minds at all? Answer: it can't. There's a fatal incongruence there, one the writers completely overlooked.

 

 

In short,

 

REAPER = ORGANIC in a synthetic body.

CATALYST = single AI.

[Spectr61]

ModernAcademic;

To recap then:

The Leviathans created an AI, then set it to the task of figuring out how to keep artificial life from wiping out organic life.

The AI, presumably named the Catalyst, then in turn created the original Reaper, Harbinger.

Harbinger then created other Reapers and began the system of cycles, beginning with "reaping" the Leviathans. (Most of them anyway)

The Reapers then created the Citadel(Crucible) and the Mass Effect Relays to use during following cycles.

In between cycles, the Reapers exist in hibernation in extra-galactic dark space, waiting for the next reaping cycle to begin, and then use the Citadel and the relays as a trap to reap the unsuspecting.

Is that about right?

[ModernAcademic]

Spectre61

Correct. I had even forgotten the information about Harbinger being the first Reaper in existence.

That's pretty much what the Reapers did shortly after their creation.