457 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

But it's not a logical extreme. It's a nonsensical extreme. And that matters, because when you establish your AI runs on troll logic you can't make reasonable guesses as to what it does.

Troll logic is still logic.  Just twisted to hold different values.  It's not like the Reapers are acting randomly.  They are in fact, acting with a precise, machine-like purpose.

 

We have established that the Catalyst is still following its instructions as it understands them, just taken to an extreme not intended by the Leviathans.  They even admit "There was no mistake, it still serves its purpose" 

[Iakus]

Well, I believe that in the first game Harbinger says that there have been over 600 reapings in the galaxy. I'm not sure if the exact number was 630 or 680, but if you take either of those and multiply it by 50,000, you get something in the 30 million range. I'm not sure how old Leviathans live to be, but we could assume that they've been around 50-40 million years as a species. I don't believe that any race, even Leviathans, could be a billion years old.

I don't recall any such number being mentioned in ME1

[Iakus]

How many "over?"  Again, Harbinger's statement here is not an actual amount.  The only thing that potentially limits the age of the Leviathan species is the age of the galaxy itself... which is estimated to be about 12 to 13 billion years. 

 

However, my point was:   Given the presentation of how Reapers create other Reapers (essentially incorporating the entire civilizations they reap into single, individual reapers, even the  maximum time frame of around 12 billion years would not allow for a large enough number of Reapers to be created for the to be described as "legion" (i.e. innumerable).  If you use the figure of only 600 reapings having taken place with say 6 civilizations being "reaped" in each cycle and each civilization being reduced to 1 Reaper being created... you would then have only 3,600 Reapers in existence... hardly "legion" (unless Bioware is intentionally throwing us a curve ball by using the number of men in the Roman Legion and not the more common meaning of the word "legion" (i.e. innumerable; too many to count) in the dialogue with Sovereign).

But if you take 1 billion years as the low end of the age of the cycles, you still get tens of thousands of Reapers: 20,000 Sovereigns +100,000 or so destroyers and support ships.

 

Which is just stupid given the entire galaxy should have fallen pretty much instantly to that kind of power.  With plenty left over to go exploring other galaxies even without machine servants.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

What are you confused about? Do you think neither Will Smith or Tommy Lee Jones are good actors? 

 

Depends on the material.

[straykat]

Depends on the material.

 

Tommy Lee is never bad.. 

 

He's a jerk in real life though.

 

Will Smith sucks. For both reasons.

[UpUpAway95]

But if you take 1 billion years as the low end of the age of the cycles, you still get tens of thousands of Reapers: 20,000 Sovereigns +100,000 or so destroyers and support ships.

 

Which is just stupid given the entire galaxy should have fallen pretty much instantly to that kind of power.  With plenty left over to go exploring other galaxies even without machine servants.

 

Sorry, it's still not "legion" enough to "darken the skies of every world" in the galaxy... which is what Sovereign claims during Virmire... or "legion" when compared with a organic populations that number in the trillions (as stated by Saphyria in ME1) - "When you represent trillions of citizens things tend to get a little busy."  Keep in mind that the idea of being "legion" is based on numbers, not sizes.

 

Another possiblity is that each Reaper still considers itself to be "many" in number rather than a singular entity... but this idea is countered by statements from Reapers that are in the first person singular - e.g. "I am Sovereign."

 

Again, my point is the Bioware's writing has been extremely inconsistent.  People are going to find "evidence" in the game in all directions - both for and against whatever "point" they choose to argue.  That being the case, is any of the "lore" worth getting "married to."  I say, let Bioware throw away whatever of it they want; allow them the "wiggle room" to hopefully construct a better, more consistent Mass Effect lore this time around.

 

BTW, are people forgetting that the Citadel itself was presented as being an "enormous mass relay that connects to dark space." (that is, the Citadel itself is supposed to be what makes the Reapers capable of "extra-galactic" travel (i.e. travel outside the Milky Way Galaxy)?... and the Milky Way species have access to that knowledge/tech at the end of ME1 (through Vigil's data file).

[Iakus]

 

BTW, are people forgetting that the Citadel itself was presented as being an "enormous mass relay that connects to dark space." (that is, the Citadel itself is supposed to be what makes the Reapers capable of "extra-galactic" travel (i.e. travel outside the Milky Way Galaxy)?... and the Milky Way species have access to that knowledge/tech at the end of ME1 (through Vigil's data file).

This much is true.  However, relays need another relay in order to work.  So in order for there to be a relay to Andromeda, Reapers (or some other race) must have gone there "the old fashioned way" at least once in order to build a destination point there.

 

And it's moot anyway as far as the species of this cycle goes, as it has been heavily implied that the journey to Andromeda will take several centuries.

[UpUpAway95]

This much is true.  However, relays need another relay in order to work.  So in order for there to be a relay to Andromeda, Reapers (or some other race) must have gone there "the old fashioned way" at least once in order to build a destination point there.

 

And it's moot anyway as far as the species of this cycle goes, as it has been heavily implied that the journey to Andromeda will take several centuries.

 

I didn't say they took a relay to Andromeda... just that there must be at least 1 relay outside the Milky Way Galaxy in dark space.  After the events of ME1 and with Vigil's data file installed in the Citadel control panel... the residents of the Milky Way would have (or should have) known then that extra-galactic travel to a relay outside the Milky Way Galaxy was possible.  This is a full two years before the events of ME3 and the ultimate destruction of the relay network and the Citadel.  This alone may have been incentive enough to try to mount an expedition to explore outside the Galaxy.  Not knowing how far deep into dark space that second relay is means that we don't really know how much the "conventional" FTL journey might have been shortened by starting out by jumping from the Citadel Mass Relay (again, just a "possible" - the only "truth" will be whatever Bioware decides to write.)

 

Also, the way I reach the title of this thread, it is positing that it is possible for Leviathans and Reapers to have reached Andromeda.  It's not saying for sure that they did reach Andromeda or that we will necessarily find them in Andromeda.  An assessment I agree with... it's possible.