457 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

What are you confused about? Do you think neither Will Smith or Tommy Lee Jones are good actors? 

[straykat]

Why would we know of their efforts? The Reapers are only chatty when they're talkin' smack and the remaining Leviathans weren't around during the Leviathans' heyday, let alone chatty enough to tell us about failed excursions.

 

Because the writers didn't think of it yet. And Hudson said that ME3 was the last game in the timeline.

 

But maybe you meant something else. I don't know.

[Killroy]

What are you confused about? Do you think neither Will Smith or Tommy Lee Jones are good actors? 

 

I'm confused by you. You know Iakus was making a Men In Black joke, right?

 

And I don't think Tommy Lee Jones is a particularly good actor. He's solidly 'meh.' 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm confused by you. You know Iakus was making a Men In Black joke, right?

 

And I don't think Tommy Lee Jones is a particularly good actor. He's solidly 'meh.' 

Yes, I know he was making a Men in Black joke. I was just saying that speaking of those actors, I would like it if they were in the game. 

 

Alright. I disagree, but everyone is free to their opinions when it comes to things like performances. 

[Killroy]

Because the writers didn't think of it yet. And Hudson said that ME3 was the last game in the timeline.

 

But maybe you meant something else. I don't know.

 

There would have been no reason for the Reapers' or Leviathans' efforts at an Andromedan excursion to be made known to us aside from foreshadowing sequels. Saying "it's stupid for us to go to Andromeda because we never saw any signs that the Reapers or Leviathans tried to go there" is, well, stupid. 

[straykat]

There would have been no reason for the Reapers' or Leviathans' efforts at an Andromedan excursion to be made known to us aside from foreshadowing sequels. Saying "it's stupid for us to go to Andromeda because we never saw any signs that the Reapers or Leviathans tried to go there" is, well, stupid. 

 

There's no reason because this was pulled out of their ass. And makes good business sense compared to what Hudson wanted.

 

I'll agree that there isn't a reason for us to really know.. but I'm not about to turn these guys into storytelling masterminds.

[Killroy]

There's no reason because this was pulled out of their ass. And makes good business sense compared to what Hudson wanted.

 

I'll agree that there isn't a reason for us to really know.. but I'm not about to turn these guys into storytelling masterminds.

 

But it wouldn't have been masterful storytelling to throw in foreshadowing for sequels. That's just advertising. And of course it was pulled out of their asses. So were ME2 and ME3.

[DarthSliver]

While I understand maybe the Reapers never got there, it would be nice that we werent the only cycle to make it there. I mean if any other previous cycles made it there, how would we know?, because so many many many years would've passed since they got there versus us. There is also evidence that we aren't the only cycle to make shots at the Reapers, just the only that succeed in winning. While shots are being fired to face enemies, other plans might be set in motion to ensure life goes on for previous cycles. 

 

Nods to the Shepard Trilogy/ Reaper Oppression would probably make the game feel more deserving of its Mass Effect title. 

[Undead Han]

There is zero evidence limiting Reaper programming to the Milky Way.  Just the opposite, in fact, as their mandate is to "preserve life at any cost"  No limitations to any particular area.

 

There is also zero evidence for the Catalyst's coding allowing it to be interested in other galaxies. Nothing at all is said about other galaxies in the previous three games, so Bioware has a blank slate to work with. They could either have the Reapers limited to the Milky Way by the Leviathans' code, or have the Reapers doing their thing in the entire Local Group. Either one would be equally plausible.

 

 

 

 

If the Leviathans couldn't or wouldn't go there, why would be?  It's the general problem with shifting to that galaxy to begin with.  What's our compelling reason?

 

Which of course leads to "How the frak did we get the tech to go there"?

 

Escape from the Reapers works as a reason. The Leviathans were caught off guard by the Catalyst's rebellion and they had given it control of the entire empire, sort of like Skynet. Given their lack of preparation in comparison to the current cycle and the total control over their empire that they had ceded to the A.I., the collapse of their civilization was probably swift. The current cycle, despite being technologically inferior to the ancient Leviathans, probably would have more of an opportunity to flee than the Leviathans did. 

 

Even so, the Leviathans basically adopted a similar strategy. The key difference is that the Leviathans sought a hiding place within the Milky Way, rather than trying to find one outside it.

 

The only tech hurdle in the lore to getting to Andromeda is an ability to get there without needing to refuel along the way. Static discharge tech for deep space both exists in the lore and is possessed by the Council species, as they use it on space stations. They also have stasis pods enabling cryosleep for long journeys. Speed is not an issue at all, since the crew doesn't have to be awake for the journey.

 

The fuel issue, while a barrier, is not an insurmountable one. The writers have plenty of room to have the Council species develop a means to make intergalactic journeys without refueling. The Reapers after all, possess that ability, and plenty are destroyed during the course of the Reaper War. So the tech already exists in the lore. The Council species reverse engineering Reaper tech would be far from the most implausible story element of the series. 

 

That is assuming also that they even need to reverse engineer Reaper tech. They may not need to. Dark space is a bit of a misnomer. The space between galaxies is actually loaded with stars, and probably orbiting planets as well. As many as half of all stars in existence are thought to exist between galaxies. So it is possible that an ark could plot a slightly indirect, zig-zag route between rogue stars to Andromeda, refueling along the way. The journey would just take a lot longer.

[Sartoz]

We don't know if the Intelligence's grand experiment ever included Andromeda, but do you think the Leviathans had an interest in moving beyond the Milky Way? I find it hard to believe that the galaxy's most advanced species never established a presence in Andromeda. Unless they were content to run just one galaxy. 

 

Also, it's worth reminding everyone that mass effect technology is Reaper technology. Thus, is it possible that the Reapers will always have some role to play in the future of this series?

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I will repeat.. the answer is NO, no and NO!

 

ME:A is a NEW game, a NEW story, NEW characters in a NEW galaxy. Reapers belong in the MWG.

[Helios969]

It would make the game a lot better. Both Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones are great actors and I'd love for them to have a role. 

Only if MEA is Citadel DLC The Game.  Besides I think one of those guys would require the entire budget allocated for voice acting.

[Wildecker]

The Reaper's mandate is to "preserve all life" it didn't specify a particular galaxy so it would be logical to expand it to other galaxies.

If that were the case they would not lie dormant in Darkspace like they did, waiting for the call to action by Sovereign. Instead they would be out there harvesting some remote galaxy millions of lightyears away.
My take is that the Reapers were tasked to make sure organic species in the Milky Way (and maybe the Magellanic Clouds) do not reahc a point of no return in regard to the development of artificial intelligence so the Singularity will never come to pass.

That much said - if they were not in a position to prevent this from happening in Andromeda, we might find out whether synthetic civilizations can coexist with each other or not.

[saladinbob]

Given the Star Child's wonky logic in harvesting races, the bigger question is why assume the Reapers are limited to a single galaxy at all? If the current cycle can work out intergalactic travel then I'm sure a supercomputer with billions of years on its hands can as well. It's just another reason why the entire premise of Andromeda falls to pieces. 

[Wildecker]

Given the Star Child's wonky logic in harvesting races, the bigger question is why assume the Reapers are limited to a single galaxy at all? If the current cycle can work out intergalactic travel then I'm sure a supercomputer with billions of years on its hands can as well. It's just another reason why the entire premise of Andromeda falls to pieces. 

 Our cycle actually got way past the time of the harvest. Otherwise the Quarians would not have been allowed to build the Geth. Sovereign/Nazara found the Keepers unresponding when it called for action and had to improvise.

[Undead Han]

Given the Star Child's wonky logic in harvesting races, the bigger question is why assume the Reapers are limited to a single galaxy at all? If the current cycle can work out intergalactic travel then I'm sure a supercomputer with billions of years on its hands can as well. It's just another reason why the entire premise of Andromeda falls to pieces. 

 

The Catalyst is the sum of his programming. If it was only programmed to monitor the Milky Way, it is conceivable that the Reapers would never have ventured outside of it. It may have been programmed that way as well, since its intended function was to monitor the Leviathan's vassals, all of whom also resided in the Milky Way. Monitoring all life in the entire universe would have been an impossibility, so the Catalyst would need some limits placed on its focus. We just don't know what those limits were.

 

Personally I'd prefer that the Reapers were active in the entire Local Group, as it gives a convenient explanation for why there is no civilization on par with the ancient Leviathans (presumably) in Andromeda, but I think the devs can go in either direction without issue. The only thing we know about the Catalyst's programming was that it had a vague mandate to preserve life. Beyond that we know nothing, and nothing at all is said about other galaxies.

[Kabooooom]

Forgive their lack of accuracy in that one particular statement but I'm fairly certain they were referring to the Milky Way only.

We've been told they hibernate between the climax of the cycle, so we have no reason to believe that they take galactic side trips.

We've been told by two different unreliable sources who couldn't possibly know that they hibernate. It would be an easy enough thing for Bioware to say "actually, they don't".

[Iakus]

They were harvested by the Reapers long ago. They were a race of giant sea-faring parasites, incapable of making their own craft, and they got got. Hardly the masters of the universe everyone makes them out to be.
 

And given Shepard gets to chat with one, the species clearly survived.  An impossibility if they were stuck to a single planet.  

 

HEck if they weren't capable of space travel, the Reapers probably would have left them alone to begin with, as they weren't advanced enough.

 

 

 

That's demonstrably false. The Crucible was passed down, cycle to cycle, for perhaps millions of years.

And was never used.  Never even completed as far as we know.  Hell, who knows what it's original purpose even was.

 

 

 

They very clearly plateaued. They made no great advancements after the relays.

 

 

So we're just going to ignore their advanced nanotechnology?  Genetics?  Things like the Omega plague? 

 

 

 

The Reapers weren't tinkering for billions of years. The first Reaper is still the best and the Catalyst was just twiddling his thumbs once the cycles were initiated. To say the Reapers are brilliant scientists, making scientific advancements billions of years more advanced than organic beings are capable of is completely unfounded conjecture that isn't supported by the games.
 

 

They are still far more advanced than any race known to exist in the Milky Way (save possibly the Leviathans)  Just scavenging off the explodified corpse of one provides a sizable leap forward in weapons technology.

 

 

 

Machine-intellect=/=omniscient mind, which is exactly what you're saying the Reapers possess. Stephen Hawking is smarter than the guy who invented who invented roller blades, so why didn't Stephen Hawking invent roller blades? Neil DeGrasse Tyson is a lot smarter than a guy who makes tables for a living, so why doesn't Tyson make tables?
Your argument is really, really dumb. For the Reapers to have made every possible advancement they would have to be omniscient. All it would take for our cycle to make that one breakthrough is a special mind.

Did I not just say omniscience isn't needed?  Bad enough you put words in my mouth the first time, but using a hammer on a jigsaw puzzle doesn't make a wrong piece fit.

[Wildecker]

The Reapers, stupidly written aside, are far, far more advanced than the current cycle.  They never let the younger races get anywhere near being a threat to them (Their power sources "seem to break known physical laws").  So whether you consider the masters of mass effect technology or not, they are a heck of  a lot further down that path than humanity is.

 

Omniscience isn't needed.  Merely experience.  Reapers have had a billion years or more to refine and improve themselves.  They created the Citadel and the relay network.  They can handle levels of power that would baffle scientists.  The upper limits of their capabilities are, frankly, unknown.  They have curb-stomped every single race to follow them and have only failed to destroy their own creators because their creators were able to run and hide from them..

 

It may be a fault in my perception, but I tended to see the Reapers much like Star Trek's Borg. They do no research of their own - they assimiliate the species of the current cycle when their technology has reached a certain level, and if they come across something interesting they pick it up and add it to their knowledge base.
And as they have an interest in no one reaching their level of technology, let alone advance beyond it, there are no quantum leaps beyond their peak technology.

[Killroy]

Given the Star Child's wonky logic in harvesting races, the bigger question is why assume the Reapers are limited to a single galaxy at all? If the current cycle can work out intergalactic travel then I'm sure a supercomputer with billions of years on its hands can as well. It's just another reason why the entire premise of Andromeda falls to pieces. 

 

If the Catalyst and Reapers were utilizing their time by sciencing for billions of years then why didn't they come up with synthesis billions of years ago? They're so much smarter and more advanced than us but the thought of synthesis never even crossed their "minds." 

[DarthSliver]

If the Catalyst and Reapers were utilizing their time by sciencing for billions of years then why didn't they come up with synthesis billions of years ago? They're so much smarter and more advanced than us but the thought of synthesis never even crossed their "minds." 

synthesis might be an option because Quarian Geth peace thing you do, but I understand that synethesis appears even if you don't make peace with Geth and Quarians. 

[Killroy]

And given Shepard gets to chat with one, the species clearly survived.  An impossibility if they were stuck to a single planet.

When did I say they were limited to a single planet? I said they can't make their own craft, which they clearly can't. They have no machines or capability to use tools. They're parasitic and use other species to do things for them.
 

HEck if they weren't capable of space travel, the Reapers probably would have left them alone to begin with, as they weren't advanced enough.

...what? The Reapers are all about AI.
 

And was never used.  Never even completed as far as we know.  Hell, who knows what it's original purpose even was.

 
Oh sure, I guess the Crucible could have originally been a convection oven.   
The plans were already complete when the Protheans found them. Being completed is irrelevant.
 

So we're just going to ignore their advanced nanotechnology?  Genetics?  Things like the Omega plague?

 
Yes, because our cycle already had that tech. Shepard has nanotech in his/her body after the resurrection. Cerberus used genetic manipulation in ME1. And the Salarians neutered the Krogans with an engineered virus.
 

They are still far more advanced than any race known to exist in the Milky Way (save possibly the Leviathans)  Just scavenging off the explodified corpse of one provides a sizable leap forward in weapons technology.

So? Your argument is that anything our cycle could ever come up with would have already been done by the Reapers.
 

Did I not just say omniscience isn't needed?  Bad enough you put words in my mouth the first time, but using a hammer on a jigsaw puzzle doesn't make a wrong piece fit.

That you lie about what your argument is is irrelevant. See above. Your argument is that anything our cycle could ever come up with would have already been done by the Reapers.
That requires omniscience. Your argument is trash and you're not even honest about what your argument is.

[Statichands]

What ever happened to the leviathans after the war?

[CronoDragoon]

The Leviathans were too lazy to care about anything outside the Milky Way and they programmed the Catalyst accordingly. Implicit explanation enough.

[Iakus]

When did I say they were limited to a single planet? I said they can't make their own craft, which they clearly can't. They have no machines or capability to use tools. They're parasitic and use other species to do things for them.
 

 

Citation needed

 

 

 

...what? The Reapers are all about AI.

 

 They harvest all advanced life, whether they have developed AI or not.  With the logicc being if tehy wait too long they will develop something that will go Skynet on them.  They leave less developed races, like the yahg alone.

 

If the Leviathans were so primitive they couldn't even develop space travel on their own, the Reapers wouldn't have bothered with them.

 

 

 

Oh sure, I guess the Crucible could have originally been a convection oven. 
The plans were already complete when the Protheans found them. Being completed is irrelevant.

 

You laugh, but you have the right idea there.  We have no way of knowing its original purpose.  I'd go so far as to say the Blue feature was a Prothean addition

 

the plans are modified and refined every cycle.  It was supposed to be some symbolic "every cycle the Reapers ever harvested is contributing to the payback" thing

 

 

 

Yes, because our cycle already had that tech. Shepard has nanotech in his/her body after the resurrection. Cerberus used genetic manipulation in ME1. And the Salarians neutered the Krogans with an engineered virus.
 

Yeah, and a hundred years ago we had cars.  But not the cars you see on the road today.  

 

 

 

So? Your argument is that anything our cycle could ever come up with would have already been done by the Reapers.
 

My argument is that anything our cycle could ever come up with is well within Reaper capabilities already.

 

 

 

That you lie about what your argument is is irrelevant. See above. Your argument is that anything our cycle could ever come up with would have already been done by the Reapers.
That requires omniscience. Your argument is trash and you're not even honest about what your argument is.

See above.  Don't call me a liar when it's quite plain that you are (at this point) deliberately misrepresenting what I'm saying in a strawman argument.  You are making yourself look foolish and frankly it's beneatth you

[Iakus]

The Leviathans were too lazy to care about anything outside the Milky Way and they programmed the Catalyst accordingly. Implicit explanation enough.

That the Leviathans would be too lazy is certainly a possibility.  But there is no evidence that they programmed such a limitation into the Catalyst.  If anything, they programmed it with too broad a mandate, given they forgot to add a "don't mulch us" failsafe.