457 réponses à ce sujet

[countofhell]

We don't know if the Intelligence's grand experiment ever included Andromeda, but do you think the Leviathans had an interest in moving beyond the Milky Way? I find it hard to believe that the galaxy's most advanced species never established a presence in Andromeda. Unless they were content to run just one galaxy. 

 

Also, it's worth reminding everyone that mass effect technology is Reaper technology. Thus, is it possible that the Reapers will always have some role to play in the future of this series?

Maybe the Reapers are already harvested Andromeda and the Reaper indocrinated sleeping agents are the only survivors in the Andromeda Galaxy.

Harbringer never mentioned other Galaxies, at least i don't remember any. Maybe that is because he is focusing on The Milky Way only.

[Killroy]

Citation needed

...they live in a barren ocean now and they have no hands. They literally cannot make tools or machines.
 

They harvest all advanced life, whether they have developed AI or not.  With the logicc being if tehy wait too long they will develop something that will go Skynet on them.  They leave less developed races, like the yahg alone.
If the Leviathans were so primitive they couldn't even develop space travel on their own, the Reapers wouldn't have bothered with them.

...the Leviathans created the Catalyst, a dangerous AI. Unless you're arguing that the Reapers are even dumber we thought?
 

You laugh, but you have the right idea there.  We have no way of knowing its original purpose.  I'd go so far as to say the Blue feature was a Prothean addition

Right. It used to be a toaster and only the Protheans ever thought controlling something was good.   
 

the plans are modified and refined every cycle.  It was supposed to be some symbolic "every cycle the Reapers ever harvested is contributing to the payback" thing

You're countering your argument again. If it weren't meant to be a weapon against the Reapers then it couldn't be some symbolic "every cycle the Reapers ever harvested is contributing to the payback" thing.
 

Yeah, and a hundred years ago we had cars.  But not the cars you see on the road today.

You keep countering your own argument. If breakthroughs and advances worked the way you're asserting they do then we would have had Tesla cars back when batteries were first invented in 500 AD.  
 

My argument is that anything our cycle could ever come up with is well within Reaper capabilities already.

And that's a stupid argument, as I've already shown. Numerous times. The Reapers are demonstrably stupid, they haven't been making great advances, and they're not omniscient. The Catalyst hadn't even thought of synthesis. That's irrefutable proof that you are completely wrong.
 

See above.  Don't call me a liar when it's quite plain that you are (at this point) deliberately misrepresenting what I'm saying in a strawman argument.  You are making yourself look foolish and frankly it's beneatth you

You are lying. Your argument is "anything our cycle could ever come up with has already been done by the Reapers." That requires omniscience. There's no way around it. You are wrong and your argument is stooopid.

[Iakus]

...they live in a barren ocean now and they have no hands. They literally cannot make tools or machines.
 

Congrats, you just described the hanar.  You know the race that evacuated tens of thousands of drell to their homeworld?

 

 

 

...the Leviathans created the Catalyst, a dangerous AI. Unless you're arguing that the Reapers are even dumber we thought?

 

Waitaminute... 

 

 

They literally cannot make tools or machines

 

 

 

Right. It used to be a toaster and only the Protheans ever thought controlling something was good. 

You're countering your argument again. If it weren't meant to be a weapon against the Reapers then it couldn't be some symbolic "every cycle the Reapers ever harvested is contributing to the payback" thing.

 I said we don't know what it's original purpose was.  It may have started as something other than a weapon (the Catalyst even says it's little more than a power source) which got repurposed.  Or maybe it was always a weapon and its focus has been changed.  We simply don't know, because "there is no time to explain"

 

 

 

You keep countering your own argument. If breakthroughs and advances worked the way you're asserting they do then we would have had Tesla cars back when batteries were first invented in 500 AD.
 

Off by about 1300 years.  And I have no idea what point you're trying to make is

 

 

 

And that's a stupid argument, as I've already shown. Numerous times. The Reapers are demonstrably stupid, they haven't been making great advances, and they're not omniscient. The Catalyst hadn't even thought of synthesis. That's irrefutable proof that you are completely wrong.
 

Yes, the Reapers are stupid.  But that's the writing.  They're supposed to be smart.  

 

You also keep using the word "omniscient"  and blaming me for using it.  Stop it.Argue the topic at hand and stop making stuff up to argue.

 

Oh, and yes, the Catalyst has "thought of" Synthesis.  But handwaved away why it couldn't work until Shepard donated his/her super-special "organic energy" 

 

 

You are lying. Your argument is "anything our cycle could ever come up with has already been done by the Reapers." That requires omniscience. There's no way around it. You are wrong and your argument is stooopid.

Once again you are accrediting me with something I did not say.

 

I said "Anything our cycle could ever come up with is already well within the Reapers' capabilities"

 

Please do me the courtesy of quoting me rather than yourself when arguing what I said.

[CronoDragoon]

That the Leviathans would be too lazy is certainly a possibility.  But there is no evidence that they programmed such a limitation into the Catalyst.  If anything, they programmed it with too broad a mandate, given they forgot to add a "don't mulch us" failsafe.

 

We don't really need evidence, though. If Mass Effect Andromeda doesn't care about the question of Reapers in another galaxy, then it's enough for the explanation to not contradict anything. I have to imagine that the people posing this as a serious problem want it to be a serious problem.

[Killroy]

Congrats, you just described the hanar.  You know the race that evacuated tens of thousands of drell to their homeworld?
 
Waitaminute... 
 

The Leviathans enthrall other races to do everything for them. They're parasites that can't even touch their flappers together. How the hell could they make machines? The Hanar were lucky enough to live on a planet lousy with Prothean tech. They didn't make anything either. Their tentacle arms can't even lift more than 100 grams or something.
 

I said we don't know what it's original purpose was.  It may have started as something other than a weapon (the Catalyst even says it's little more than a power source) which got repurposed.  Or maybe it was always a weapon and its focus has been changed.  We simply don't know, because "there is no time to explain"

Right, you said we don't know what the original purpose of it was. Then you went on to say it was meant to be a way for every cycle to symbolically strike back against the Reapers, which would mean it's purpose was always as a weapon against the Reapers. You can't have it both ways.
 

Off by about 1300 years.  And I have no idea what point you're trying to make is

Baghdad Battery. Educate yourself. And you would know what I was talking about if your argument weren't intellectually dishonest.
 

Yes, the Reapers are stupid.  But that's the writing.  They're supposed to be smart.

But they aren't smart. They've never been smart during the course of the trilogy. What they're supposed to be doesn't matter one bit.
 

You also keep using the word "omniscient"  and blaming me for using it.  Stop it.Argue the topic at hand and stop making stuff up to argue.

There's that intellectual dishonesty.
 

Oh, and yes, the Catalyst has "thought of" Synthesis.  But handwaved away why it couldn't work until Shepard donated his/her super-special "organic energy"

When? And you just destroyed your own argument. Clearly we're capable of doing things the Reapers are not. If the Reapers could anything we could do then they would have already accomplished synthesis.
 

Once again you are accrediting me with something I did not say.
I said "Anything our cycle could ever come up with is already well within the Reapers' capabilities"

And we've both already showed why that's a stupid argument.
 

Please do me the courtesy of quoting me rather than yourself when arguing what I said.

Do you want me to quote you admitting that our cycle is capable of doing things the Reapers are not?

[Killroy]

We don't really need evidence, though. If Mass Effect Andromeda doesn't care about the question of Reapers in another galaxy, then it's enough for the explanation to not contradict anything. I have to imagine that the people posing this as a serious problem want it to be a serious problem.

 

Exactly. 

[LightningPoodle]

It's entirely possible. I don't think the Leviathans would have been able too. The area between stars is nothing compared to the area between galaxies. However, Reapers, which are not exactly organic, could survive out there. They have no need for food, or warmth. One could, after hibernating like the Protheans believe they did, they could potentially make the journey to another galaxy.

 

However, I think it unlikely. The Reapers had a mission. The Milky Way was it's experiment. There would be no reason to see what's happening in another galaxy, though I would find it funny if in Andromeda, or any other Galaxy for that matter, Organic and AI have found the answer the Reapers have spent millennia to find themselves.

[Iakus]

Lots of ranting

Okay, I've killed enough brain cells with this argument

 

Welcome to ignore.  Enjoy your stay

[Iakus]

We don't really need evidence, though. If Mass Effect Andromeda doesn't care about the question of Reapers in another galaxy, then it's enough for the explanation to not contradict anything. I have to imagine that the people posing this as a serious problem want it to be a serious problem.

Sure if Bioware wants to compleley ignore the possibilities of Reapers being in Andromeda, then they'll be ignored. Such blind eyes certainly aren't without precedence.

 

Doesn't mean it won't be a cheap cop-out though.

[AresKeith]

Sure if Bioware wants to compleley ignore the possibilities of Reapers being in Andromeda, then they'll be ignored. Such blind eyes certainly aren't without precedence.

Doesn't mean it won't be a cheap cop-out though.

It's a cheap cop-out because the Reapers never went to Andromeda when nothing suggests that they did?

[CronoDragoon]

Sure if Bioware wants to compleley ignore the possibilities of Reapers being in Andromeda, then they'll be ignored. Such blind eyes certainly aren't without precedence.

 

Doesn't mean it won't be a cheap cop-out though.

 

That will depend entirely on your priorities as a player/reader/participant in the story. If you are truly someone who cannot enjoy a story unless every hypothetical fringe case is prediagnosed and addressed directly in the narrative, then yes perhaps not addressing this will make you frustrated. Of course, I have to ask if there are any stories one does enjoy with such an attitude. If you place your priorities on the story BioWare wants to tell in Andromeda, then like me you simply don't care, and might even be a little annoyed by a writer mindset that every possible plot hole must be addressed.

[Iakus]

It's a cheap cop-out because the Reapers never went to Andromeda when nothing suggests that they did?

It's a cheap cop-out if they could physically reach Andromeda and never do when their mandate us to "preserve life at any cost" (to the point of mulching their own creators because "they were part of the problem") and there was any chance of life there, organic or synthetic

[Iakus]

That will depend entirely on your priorities as a player/reader/participant in the story. If you are truly someone who cannot enjoy a story unless every hypothetical fringe case is prediagnosed and addressed directly in the narrative, then yes perhaps not addressing this will make you frustrated. Of course, I have to ask if there are any stories one does enjoy with such an attitude. If you place your priorities on the story BioWare wants to tell in Andromeda, then like me you simply don't care, and might even be a little annoyed by a writer mindset that every possible plot hole must be addressed.

I hardly consider the lack of Reapers in Andromeda to be a "hypothetical fringe case" they were an existential threat to every advanced civilization they came across. If they were capable of crossing the gulf to Androneda, they would be a risk there too.

If they were for some reason incapable of the journey that is of course another matter.

[Killroy]

Okay, I've killed enough brain cells with this argument

 

Welcome to ignore.  Enjoy your stay

 

Take note everyone. This is what pouting looks like in text form.

[AresKeith]

It's a cheap cop-out if they could physically reach Andromeda and never do when their mandate us to "preserve life at any cost" (to the point of mulching their own creators because "they were part of the problem") and there was any chance of life there, organic or synthetic

Having the ability to do something and actually doing it are two different things

Their mandate never implied going to other galaxies outside of yours and other interpretation, Bioware not following that possibility is not a cop out nor is it a serious problem

[Drone223]

If that were the case they would not lie dormant in Darkspace like they did, waiting for the call to action by Sovereign. Instead they would be out there harvesting some remote galaxy millions of lightyears away.
 

The Reaper's being dormant in darkspace is only a hypothesis made by Vigil. They've also existed for billions of years that's more than enough time to establish a presence in other galaxies.

 

My take is that the Reapers were tasked to make sure organic species in the Milky Way (and maybe the Magellanic Clouds) do not reahc a point of no return in regard to the development of artificial intelligence so the Singularity will never come to pass.

 

If the reaper's can have a presence in the various satellite galaxies then they can travel to other galaxies as well.
 

[rocklikeafool]

So apparently organic life rises and always makes the same mistake of making synthetics. 

Someone apparently didn't play the same ME3 that everyone else did.../facepalm

[CronoDragoon]

I hardly consider the lack of Reapers in Andromeda to be a "hypothetical fringe case" they were an existential threat to every advanced civilization they came across. If they were capable of crossing the gulf to Androneda, they would be a risk there too.

If they were for some reason incapable of the journey that is of course another matter.

 

It's hypothetical because we don't know if Reapers have actually been to Andromeda or not, and it's a fringe case because it's likely it doesn't have anything to do with the story they are trying to tell in Andromeda. Now if they shine a light on it and raise the question, then yes I agree it should be answered in some capacity. If they completely ignore it, then consistently bringing that up as a criticism holds about as much weight in my mind as saying the Eagles not taking the Ring to Mordor is a cheap cop out.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Perhaps they could.

That doesn't mean they have done so.

[AlanC9]

It's hypothetical because we don't know if Reapers have actually been to Andromeda or not, and it's a fringe case because it's likely it doesn't have anything to do with the story they are trying to tell in Andromeda. Now if they shine a light on it and raise the question, then yes I agree it should be answered in some capacity. If they completely ignore it, then consistently bringing that up as a criticism holds about as much weight in my mind as saying the Eagles not taking the Ring to Mordor is a cheap cop out.

Though if someone's just looking for a way to say bad things about ME:A, I suppose it will do.

[Iakus]

It's hypothetical because we don't know if Reapers have actually been to Andromeda or not, and it's a fringe case because it's likely it doesn't have anything to do with the story they are trying to tell in Andromeda. Now if they shine a light on it and raise the question, then yes I agree it should be answered in some capacity. If they completely ignore it, then consistently bringing that up as a criticism holds about as much weight in my mind as saying the Eagles not taking the Ring to Mordor is a cheap cop out.

It's true we don't know, but if they have, where are they? What happened to them? That's important.

And if they haven't then why? Their mandate is to protect "all life" and their single minded focus, which has trapped the entire galaxy, including their own creators, in a cycle of destruction for a billion years or more, is unlikely to be thwarted because they "inferred" a limit to this galaxy.

That leaves a physical limit. Okay for whatever reason the Reapers were physically prevented from making the trip. What was that limit and how did we overcome it? What makes humans so special yet again? This too is important.

[Iakus]

Though if someone's just looking for a way to say bad things about ME:A, I suppose it will do.

Believe it or not I do want MEA to be a fresh start. But it's hard to do if it's built using the same methods that brought down the last trilogy

[themikefest]

If the ship happens to leave before the events of ME3, its possible no one onboard would know anything about the reapers except maybe through rumors.

 

In Andromeda, the species that the main character encounters may call the reapers by a different name if they were in Andromeda.

 

If refuse is the ending, the reapers would be back long after the folks from the Milky Way are long dead.

 

I'm not too worried about the reaper being in Andromeda. It wouldn't be hard not to include them. I believe a reference in the codex or maybe a line or two of dialogue mentioning them would be about it

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Up until this last cycle, the Intelligence failed to solve the problem the Leviathan gave it in its mandate. Considering that, why would it bother investing time and resources into other galaxies when it's yet to fix the current one? Also, the Intelligence relies on a ruse in the form of the mass relay network in order to facilitate its plans, which also requires a hub designed to lure spacefaring species. Would it have copied itself and built a Citadel Mk. II in Andromeda? Just how long would this even take? Just how long were the reapers really around that they would have had time to accomplish this? 

 

As for the Leviathan, there's any number of possible reasons that they couldn't leave the galaxy. When the Intelligence betrayed them, they may have lost the resources necessary to even attempt the feat. After all, they rely on other species to do the work for them, species that were undoubtedly wiped out by the reapers. They may have been pinned down for eons, relying on their space pilantirs to observe and occasionally hijack a few minds to help them, but never enough to get the ball rolling for the cuttelfish exodus. 

 

Agreed. The Intelligence had a single directive given to it by its creators. The only "hand waving" that needs to be applied here is to say that the directive only applied to the Milky Way. Why? Because Leviathans were only interested in "tribute" whatever that was. Tribute does not come from a dead race. Leviathans got tired of continually rallying the other species in the galaxy to fight off a synthetic threat made by one species so it created the Intelligence to solve the problem of preserving organic life. If there were no dangerous synthetics created in the MW, the Leviathans were just happy to collect their "tribute", whatever that was, who needs details?

 

So, no. The Reapers had no directive to go outside the MW. The Leviathans had no need to go outside the MW searching for tribute if the synthetic problem was solved. 

 

There you have it.

 

No Reapers or Leviathans in Andromeda.

[Iakus]

Agreed. The Intelligence had a single directive given to it by its creators. The only "hand waving" that needs to be applied here is to say that the directive only applied to the Milky Way. Why? Because Leviathans were only interested in "tribute" whatever that was. Tribute does not come from a dead race. Leviathans got tired of continually rallying the other species in the galaxy to fight off a synthetic threat made by one species so it created the Intelligence to solve the problem of preserving organic life. If there were no dangerous synthetics created in the MW, the Leviathans were just happy to collect their "tribute", whatever that was, who needs details?
 
So, no. The Reapers had no directive to go outside the MW. The Leviathans had no need to go outside the MW searching for tribute if the synthetic problem was solved. 
 
There you have it.
 
No Reapers or Leviathans in Andromeda.

Pretty sure the Leviathan had an interest in not being mulched either the Catalyst saw fit to do that though

Plus there is also the possibility of synthetic life being created in Andromeda, going Skynet, and then coming to the Milky Way, in which case going to Andromeda and harvesting life there becomes a part of preserving life in the Milky Way