457 réponses à ce sujet

[Drone223]

You couldn't possibly know what the leviathans are thinking.  There was one conversation with them.  You're just making things up at this point.

I never said, I did but everything about how the catalyst works comes from the leviathans. The leviathans said it themselves that the catalyst is meant to preserve life "at any cost", the fact that the catalyst turned against them is proof that they didn't give it any limitations.

 

Why do you trust anything the Leviathans tell you?
 

What do the leviathans gain by lying? There are only a few of them left and they'll won't last long against the reaper's share numbers.

 

Maybe they're unaware of the limitations - they might have been included by accident, and the Leviathans have been so busy hiding that they haven't noticed that the Reapers are leaving other galaxies alone.

 

That makes no scene especially since the leviathans gave the catalyst no limitations, if the catalyst did have limitations the leviathans would've known since they created it.

 

Or perhaps the Leviathans are trying to make the danger sound bigger than it is. They might have a cultural bias toward exaggeration (we even see this in Sovereign's statements about how the reapers will darken the sky with their numbers, which isn't true at all).

 

Nothing said by the leviathans seems to be an exaggeration.

 

 

Maybe the limitation is the source of some embarrassment for the Leviathans, so they want you not to know about it.

 

How can their be a limitation(s) if the leviathans never gave the catalyst any in the first place.
 

 

There are so many possible explanations, and there is evidence to refute exactly none of them.
QED
Any limits of which you're aware.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

It could be something as simple as a data storage problem. Like how 2-digit dates didn't allow for the year 2000. That wasn't an intended limitation, but it still happened.

Or how the view counter on YouTube was a 32-bit integer, so it didn't allow numbers bigger than 2.2 billion. That wasn't an intended limitation, it was simply a consequence of how the site was coded, and they didn't think it would be a problem.

 

Even if there were unintentional limitations the leviathans would've still know about.

 

 

You're citing an in-game source, not the writers. And since the exact details never made it into the game, the writers would be able simply to change their minds.

This ambiguity might even have been intended to allow them the freedom to do something else going forward.

 

 

Those things are called retcons and 9/10 they're bad and ME's track record with retcon's is horrid *cough*cerberus*cough*.

[ArabianIGoggles]

I never said, I did but everything about how the catalyst works comes from the leviathans. The leviathans said it themselves that the catalyst is meant to preserve life "at any cost", the fact that the catalyst turned against them is proof that they didn't give it any limitations.

 

What do the leviathans gain by lying? There are only a few of them left and they'll won't last long against the reaper's share numbers.

 

That makes no scene especially since the leviathans gave the catalyst no limitations, if the catalyst did have limitations the leviathans would've known since they created it.

 

Nothing said by the leviathans seems to be an exaggeration.

 

 

How can their be a limitation(s) if the leviathans never gave the catalyst any in the first place.
 

 

Even if there were unintentional limitations the leviathans would've still know about.

 

Those things are called retcons and 9/10 they're bad and ME's track record with retcon's is horrid *cough*cerberus*cough*.

You really think there are only a few leviathans left?  There is no way the species would have survived if that were the case.  We don't even know if Desponia was the only planet they're on, and even if that were true there would likely be millions of them swimming around down there. 

[Iakus]

By definition, though, it can only do that as far as it is able.

How far is that?
 

"At all cost"

 

 

The lack of one limit is not evidence of the lack of all possible limits.

 

But the fact that the Leviathans, which are the writers' mouthpieces in justifying the Catalyst, said there were no limits, indicates there are none, at least as far as programming goes.

 

A physical limitation is a different matter though.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I never said, I did but everything about how the catalyst works comes from the leviathans. The leviathans said it themselves that the catalyst is meant to preserve life "at any cost", the fact that the catalyst turned against them is proof that they didn't give it any limitations.

Proof and evidence are not the same thing.

At all.

What do the leviathans gain by lying?

You're misapplying the burden of proof. I'm not claiming they're lying. I'm asking why you're certain they aren't.

There are only a few of them left and they'll won't last long against the reaper's share numbers.

So they're not lying because you can't think of a reason why they might?

Do you think that things are only true if you're aware of them?

That makes no scene especially since the leviathans gave the catalyst no limitations, if the catalyst did have limitations the leviathans would've known since they created it.

Nothing said by the leviathans seems to be an exaggeration.

How can their be a limitation(s) if the leviathans never gave the catalyst any in the first place.

Your reasoning here is circular.

Even if there were unintentional limitations the leviathans would've still know about.

Are you 100% aware of the details of everything you've done, even by accident?

Those things are called retcons and 9/10 they're bad and ME's track record with retcon's is horrid *cough*cerberus*cough*.

They're only retcons if they contradict in-game content.

In this case, there's no content to contradict, so a retcon would be impossible.

[Sylvius the Mad]

"At all cost"

If I gave you infinite resources, could you read my mind?

I didn't think so.

But the fact that the Leviathans, which are the writers' mouthpieces in justifying the Catalyst, said there were no limits, indicates there are none, at least as far as programming goes.

It does nothing of the sort.

The writers don't exist within the game's setting.

A physical limitation is a different matter though.

All limitations are physical.

[Drone223]

You really think there are only a few leviathans left?  There is no way the species would have survived if that were the case.  We don't even know if Desponia was the only planet they're on, and even if that were true there would likely be millions of them swimming around down there. 

The leviathans have been hiding from the reaper's for billions of years and have gone to great lengths to stay hidden so it isn't to far fetch to say their numbers are relativity small. Even a population of millions when compared to a population of billions/trillions is rather small.

[ArabianIGoggles]

The leviathans have been hiding from the reaper's for billions of years and have gone to great lengths to stay hidden so it isn't to far fetch to say their numbers are relativity small. Even a population of millions when compared to a population of billions/trillions is rather small.

You're all about making things up.  

[Drone223]

You're all about making things up.  

Its not, the leviathans said it themselves that they were forced into hiding after the catalyst killed most of their kind and forced the survives into hiding and have been doing so ever since.

[Lord Marcus]

Since the alliance beat the cycle we are able to become more advanced than ever to reach another galaxy. I highly doubt the milkyway was the only galaxy being wiped clean by Reapers. Im sure all of the other galaxys survived the cycle thanks to Shepard. We may find other human civilizations, aliens, AI etc similar to our own. Why just our galaxy? What if there really was a long time ago in a galaxy far far away? Reapers only harvesting 1 galaxy for a billion years? Please. Get your heads out of your butts. Maybe we are all indoctrinated posting on this forum being totally clueless about andromeda.

[Iakus]

If I gave you infinite resources, could you read my mind?
 

With infinite time and resources?  Maybe.  Especially in the Mass Effect setting.

 

You can do a lot with "resources" there, after all 

 

 

 

 
It does nothing of the sort.

The writers don't exist within the game's setting.
 

They are more than that.

 

They are the gods of the setting.  Albiet capricious ones.

 

 

 

All limitations are physical.

Except the mental ones 

[Iakus]

You're all about making things up.  

Except he's not.

 

The Leviathan of Dis is a billion years old, and was not the oldest Reaper.

 

That mens the Leviathans were harvested over a billion years ago.

[ZipZap2000]

Note that you bolded preserve life and not preserve all life

This really ends the debate.

That's a big difference, one is a clear directive and the other is a fairly vague statement that doesn't go into the details.

[Killroy]

Except he's not.

 

The Leviathan of Dis is a billion years old, and was not the oldest Reaper.

 

That mens the Leviathans were harvested over a billion years ago.

 

And that means the remaining Leviathans are on the ass end of a billion+ year old game of telephone, meaning whatever info they have is not entirely reliable. Drone doesn't seem to understand that. He's quick to point to the Reapers' hybernation period being speculation by Vigil but won't even acknowledge that most of what he says about the Leviathans, the Catalyst and it's mandate is speculation.

[rapscallioness]

You guys want to drag the Reapers back? No. Do not want.

 

I've had enough of the Reapers.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

"The lesser species were in our thrall, serving our needs. We grew more powerful, and they were cared for. But we could not protect them from themselves. Over time, the species built machines that then destroyed them. Tribute does not flow from a dead race.  To solve this problem, we created an intelligence with the mandate to preserve life at any cost."

 

"The intelligence has one purpose: preservation of life. That purpose has not been fulfilled"

 

Yeah, like some religious history handed down OVER A BILLION YEARS. These are stories. Myths. There's some fact in it. Their thralls created the intelligence for them. I don't see the Leviathans having the manual dexterity to build an artificial intelligence. Come on we know how things get distorted over a hundred years. As long as there is life in the Milky Way the purpose of the intelligence has not been fulfilled.

 

Yo dawg, we knew you were going to create synthetics that would kill you so we built a bunch synthetics to kill you before you built synthetics that would kill you.

 

You think those Leviathans knew everything? Stupid giant cuttlefish.

[Gothfather]

No it wasn't, the catalyst was created by the leviathans to preserve life "at any costs" the leviathans said it themselves.

 

Wrong, the catalyst had no limitations in its programming it would be logical for the catalyst to expand its harvesting to other galaxies (especially since the reaper's existed for billions of years). Also the leviathans didn't specify a particular galaxy in its programming they gave the catalyst an extremely broad mandate.

No it wasn't. The leviathan DLC clearly states that it was the disruption to the tribute system that caused the catalyst to be created.  The desires of the Leviathans for the catalyst  is CLEARLY articulated and that is to stop the disruption of the tribute system by stopping the inevitable cycle of servitor races creating AI which rebel and starts a war which results in the destruction of the servitor race and a disruption to the tribute system. The goal isn't to "preserve life" that is NOT the goal. They direct the catalyst to stop the cycle by finding a way to preserve organic life. But the preservation of organic life isn't the goal, that is just the method the catalyst was required to use. Otherwise it might have decided to destroy organics so they couldn't evolve and therefore couldn't create AI which would solve the issue with organics creating synthetics but the defeats the purpose of maintaining the tribute system. The harvesting is the ultimate manifestation of the tribute system because it increases the power of the reapers which are the NEO-Leviathans.

 

The goal was never to preserve life it was always to stop the endless cycle of organics creating synthetics which creates war which disrupts tribute. This is stated by the Leviathan in the self named DLC.

 

Why is it logical to expand to other galaxies? That makes ZERO sense other galaxies are not a threat to its solution. An alien race could be on it's way to destroy the earth right now but since we have never encountered any aliens creating a defence system to guard the solar system is idiocy and a colossal waste of resources.  There is no extra galactic contact in the original treaty so there is no threat of organics creating AIs that will invade the MW and disrupt the catalyst's solution. You mistake capability with with logic. Yes the reaper are capable of reaching local galaxies but it isn't logical for them to do so. They gain zero from doing so. There is no KNOWN threat from other galaxies.

 

There isn't a single codex, a single dialogue moment or a single piece of any evidence that shows the reapers are extra galactic. We are told what they do between cycles so that is no mystery and it isn't harvesting elsewhere. We know ALL reapers are in the MW when we talk to the catalyst. WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE? Conjecture with no evidence is worthless and pointless. I could just as easily say the reapers 'shag' every Tuesday in dark space my mimicking how organic leviathan's copulate. And I would have just as much evidence as you do for your conjecture.

 

PROVIDE EVIDENCE!

[Drone223]

No it wasn't. The leviathan DLC clearly states that it was the disruption to the tribute system that caused the catalyst to be created.  The desires of the Leviathans for the catalyst  is CLEARLY articulated and that is to stop the disruption of the tribute system by stopping the inevitable cycle of servitor races creating AI which rebel and starts a war which results in the destruction of the servitor race and a disruption to the tribute system. The goal isn't to "preserve life" that is NOT the goal. They direct the catalyst to stop the cycle by finding a way to preserve organic life. But the preservation of organic life isn't the goal, that is just the method the catalyst was required to use. Otherwise it might have decided to destroy organics so they couldn't evolve and therefore couldn't create AI which would solve the issue with organics creating synthetics but the defeats the purpose of maintaining the tribute system. The harvesting is the ultimate manifestation of the tribute system because it increases the power of the reapers which are the NEO-Leviathans.

 

The goal was never to preserve life it was always to stop the endless cycle of organics creating synthetics which creates war which disrupts tribute. This is stated by the Leviathan in the self named DLC.

 

You mean these quotes.

 

"We created an intelligence with the mandate to preserve life at any cost."

 

"The intelligence has one purpose: preservation of life. That purpose has not been fulfilled"

 

These came straight from the horses mouth, the catalyst was in fact designed to preserve life.

 

 

Why is it logical to expand to other galaxies? That makes ZERO sense other galaxies are not a threat to its solution. An alien race could be on it's way to destroy the earth right now but since we have never encountered any aliens creating a defence system to guard the solar system is idiocy and a colossal waste of resources.  There is no extra galactic contact in the original treaty so there is no threat of organics creating AIs that will invade the MW and disrupt the catalyst's solution. You mistake capability with with logic. Yes the reaper are capable of reaching local galaxies but it isn't logical for them to do so. They gain zero from doing so. There is no KNOWN threat from other galaxies.

 

There isn't a single codex, a single dialogue moment or a single piece of any evidence that shows the reapers are extra galactic. We are told what they do between cycles so that is no mystery and it isn't harvesting elsewhere. We know ALL reapers are in the MW when we talk to the catalyst. WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE? Conjecture with no evidence is worthless and pointless. I could just as easily say the reapers 'shag' every Tuesday in dark space my mimicking how organic leviathan's copulate. And I would have just as much evidence as you do for your conjecture.

 

PROVIDE EVIDENCE!

 

Provide evidence that the catalyst mandate was specific to the Milky way. At no did the mandate specify the milky way in particular it was just "preserve life" something that can broadly interpreted.

[DarthSliver]

You are expecting people to make inductive and deductive reasoning about the reapers, and then use this information to form a premiss. That isn't how the internet works. First you come up with an opinion, then search for evidence to support while ignoring all evidence to the contrary. And never EVER change your opinion based on the evidence other people present that is just being a wishy washy flip flopper.

 

Not only that but much of the refusal to accept that the reapers are likely to have been limited to the milky way, is because certain people on this thread have an agenda of trying to force Bioware to canonize one of the endings, or more specifically the ending THEY want canonized. Or it is the agenda to try and stop the game from being made in Andromeda so they try and "explain" why moving here doesn't make a difference so Bioware should just make the game in the Milky way. Aka certain posters here have an agenda and they don't care about facts and evidence they just want what they want period and everyone else can go frak themselves.

 

Sorry but moving to Andromeda means that the cycles have ended and if the cycles have ended than that means we won the war with the Reapers. We can't get to Andromeda before the Trilogy or during the Trilogy it has to be after. They can get away with not canonizing an ending for now I suppose or just leave it alone. But not touching it at all would probably have them making a new ending for ME3 because they refuse to canonize an ending for ME3. Our move to Andromeda is only possible after the Reaper Conflict has ended and preferrably Destroyed kind of Reapers. That is why I then go into saying that the Reapers can probably get to other galaxies but they choosen not to. I am sure they took a tour of the outside of our galaxy and determined that it wasn't needed to expand its agenda until the one in the MW was solved. 

 

But my point is that moving to Andromeda, the Reaper threat has to have been ended. ME3 ended with us taking victory and now we as a galaxy are moving on to a different galaxy. There is absolutely no way we can get to Andromeda before the ME3 endings have occurred, that the METrilogy lore gives us to that. The possibility of getting there before the endings occurred is also why this thread is occurring too. So that is why I say the Reapers defeat is the key to our intergalatic travels. Reaper Carcass makes good scienific advancements for the MW species. 

[Gothfather]

Sorry but moving to Andromeda means that the cycles have ended and if the cycles have ended than that means we won the war with the Reapers. We can't get to Andromeda before the Trilogy or during the Trilogy it has to be after. They can get away with not canonizing an ending for now I suppose or just leave it alone. But not touching it at all would probably have them making a new ending for ME3 because they refuse to canonize an ending for ME3. Our move to Andromeda is only possible after the Reaper Conflict has ended and preferrably Destroyed kind of Reapers. That is why I then go into saying that the Reapers can probably get to other galaxies but they choosen not to. I am sure they took a tour of the outside of our galaxy and determined that it wasn't needed to expand its agenda until the one in the MW was solved. 

 

But my point is that moving to Andromeda, the Reaper threat has to have been ended. ME3 ended with us taking victory and now we as a galaxy are moving on to a different galaxy. There is absolutely no way we can get to Andromeda before the ME3 endings have occurred, that the METrilogy lore gives us to that. The possibility of getting there before the endings occurred is also why this thread is occurring too. So that is why I say the Reapers defeat is the key to our intergalatic travels. Reaper Carcass makes good scienific advancements for the MW species. 

 

 

There is nothing in the series that prevents a single ship like we saw on N7 day trailer being created during the trilogy and launched in secret. The game is told mostly from Shepard's perspective and there would be ZERO reason to tell Shepard 'Hey we have a secondary plan to escape so you know if you fail it isn't the end of all citadel space life.'

 

Sun Tse has a parable about burning the ships of an invasion force so the troops know there is no retreat open to them. The principle being if you know that death is all the waits you without victory, then you will fight harder for victory. If Shepard thinks he/she is the only thing standing in the way of the destruction of all of the citadel space, then Shepard has a reason to fight all the harder. Also no single person in a war knows all the strategies, plans and projects during the conflict. So it is not only possible that Shepard was ignorant of an pre-end ark project it is PLAUSIBLE Shepard would be ignorant. 

 

You might not like the ark theory you might want a canon ending but Bioware has already stated on twitter they will not canonize the ending of ME3 because they refuse to take that choice away from the players. The only way i can think of that this is possible is if we start on the journey to Andromeda pre ME3's ending. The only thing that I can think of that allows this is the ark theory. (Just to be clear i am not claiming I thought of this theory myself). I might be wrong there might be other ways but i do know that the colonist on Andromeda can't have been in range of the crucible when it fired and bioware still maintaining that there is no cannon ending. 

 

it amazes me that people just refuse to accept that Bioware themselves stated that they will not canonize the me3 endings. This might not be the answer you wanted but it is the decision Bioware made. Hell I am in favour of the destroy ending with Shepard dead, but other people prefer other endings and I am not an A-hole to think that my SUBJECTIVE like for a particular ending should trump other player's choice. 

[DarthSliver]

There is nothing in the series that prevents a single ship like we saw on N7 day trailer being created during the trilogy and launched in secret. The game is told mostly from Shepard's perspective and there would be ZERO reason to tell Shepard 'Hey we have a secondary plan to escape so you know if you fail it isn't the end of all citadel space life.'

 

Sun Tse has a parable about burning the ships of an invasion force so the troops know there is no retreat open to them. The principle being if you know that death is all the waits you without victory, then you will fight harder for victory. If Shepard thinks he/she is the only thing standing in the way of the destruction of all of the citadel space, then Shepard has a reason to fight all the harder. Also no single person in a war knows all the strategies, plans and projects during the conflict. So it is not only possible that Shepard was ignorant of an pre-end ark project it is PLAUSIBLE Shepard would be ignorant. 

 

You might not like the ark theory you might want a canon ending but Bioware has already stated on twitter they will not canonize the ending of ME3 because they refuse to take that choice away from the players. The only way i can think of that this is possible is if we start on the journey to Andromeda pre ME3's ending. The only thing that I can think of that allows this is the ark theory. (Just to be clear i am not claiming I thought of this theory myself). I might be wrong there might be other ways but i do know that the colonist on Andromeda can't have been in range of the crucible when it fired and bioware still maintaining that there is no cannon ending. 

 

it amazes me that people just refuse to accept that Bioware themselves stated that they will not canonize the me3 endings. This might not be the answer you wanted but it is the decision Bioware made. Hell I am in favour of the destroy ending with Shepard dead, but other people prefer other endings and I am not an A-hole to think that my SUBJECTIVE like for a particular ending should trump other player's choice. 

 

I have seen the Ark Theory and this topic also states if we did it than maybe other cycles did it to. I do like the Ark Theory but would rather Bioware canonize an ending then precede in going to Andromeda because of their stated reason for going to Andromeda lol. I don't care if they step on my ending choice because they step all over them with each entry to the series since they wanted to open it to newcomers with each game. So I call total and complete BS that they care about Player choices so why should they care now with the ME3 endings lol. Only choice I saw that went through to ME3 from ME1 was my LI choice. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

They are more than that.

They are the gods of the setting.

And you can't read their minds.

Moreover, the content of their minds is irrelevant. All that matters is what makes it into the game.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

If the reapers can reach Andromeda, so can the Synthesis wave. Then they gain understanding and are no longer the enemy. Peace out.

[Gothfather]

You mean these quotes.

 

"We created an intelligence with the mandate to preserve life at any cost."

 

"The intelligence has one purpose: preservation of life. That purpose has not been fulfilled"

 

These came straight from the horses mouth, the catalyst was in fact designed to preserve life.

 

Provide evidence that the catalyst mandate was specific to the Milky way. At no did the mandate specify the milky way in particular it was just "preserve life" something that can broadly interpreted.

 

Do you know what context is? Do you know that context can change the meaning of words, in fact context can take a group of words and actually have them mean the exact opposite. "Joe is so smart," sounds like someone is saying a person named Joe is intelligent, but the context could be that the person means the exact opposite. Joe claims that a tin foil hat will keep the aliens from reading his mind. So Cindy says in a mocking tone, "Joe is so smart." Context is "everything" to meaning.

 

CONTEXT is as vital if not more vital to a determine a conversations meaning than just the text.

 

Here are some pieces of evidence that we know about the situation of the galaxy with regards to the Leviathans, the catalyst and the other races in the galaxy at the time catalyst was created.

 

Leviathan were the apex of  life in the GALAXY. Lesser life forms were in our thrall, serving our needs. (This establishes that the other races there servitors to the leviathans and note makes this statement in the context of THIS galaxy only. This single statement provides the context of what SCOPE the leviathan is speaking of for the entire conversation.)

 

Source: https://youtu.be/lEqlG6bhZ80?t=2m26s

 

Leviathans grew more powerful but the servitor races could not be saved from themselves. "Over time, the species(note the plural) created machines that then destroyed them. TRIBUTE does not flow from a DEAD race." (The problem is not races are dying or killing themselves off the problem is you get no tribute from a dead people. This is the second piece of evidence for the CONTEXT of what the leviathan is telling you.)

 

Source: https://youtu.be/lEqlG6bhZ80?t=2m33s

 

"To solve this problem,..." (Note you are specifically told right after, "tribute does not flow from a dead race." that this is the problem. So the REASON the catalyst is created is NOT to preserve life. It is created to keep tribute flowing by preserving the life of the servitor races. This is a non subtle difference. In one case the mandate is to preserve life in another the mandate to maintain tribute by preserving life. It is this "distinction" that allows for the harvests. The harvests don't make any sense if the mandate is to preserve life period. They make perfect sense if the mandate is to preserve life for tribute, because the harvests become the ultimate representation of the tribute system. The reapers take all of a race's knowledge, technology, genetic material, resources and history and "preserves" it in the form of a new reaper under the command of harbinger the first reaper who was created from harvested Leviathans. When the preservation of life is to maintain the tribute system, creating "organic living goo" for the next set of reapers to serve the Leviathan reaper Harbinger makes sense. Yet if the mandate is just to preserve life for its own sake then the solution makes no sense.

 

let us continue...

 

"To solve this problem, we created an intelligence with the mandate to preserve life at any cost." In fact you use this quote but you seem to have DELIBERATELY removed the first part of the sentence, 'To solve this problem," and you don't quote it like this either "...we created an intelligence with the mandate to preserve life at any cost." Which would indicate that you are not quoting the whole sentence, no you quote it in a manner that deliberately misleads the reader, because the entire context of what the mandate is, is in reference to the statement, "Tribute does not flow from a dead race.To solve this problem,..."  Context is so vital for meaning.

 

Source: https://youtu.be/lEqlG6bhZ80?t=2m51s

 

"As the intelligence evolved, it studied the development of civilizations. Its understanding grew until it found a solution." A solution to what? The "problem." Which was what?

 

"Tribute does not flow from a dead race."

 

There can be no misinterpretation as to what the problem is and to what the solution is for. The solution isn't to preserve life for life's sake it is to preserve life to keep tribute flowing.

 

Source: https://youtu.be/lEqlG6bhZ80?t=3m1s

 

We are then told that the catalyst "betrayed" the leviathan race and that they were the first race harvest creating the first reaper harbinger. This further strengthens the argument that tribute is the key to the entire reaper cycle.

 

https://youtu.be/lEqlG6bhZ80?t=3m10s

 

Again we get a FURTHER confirmation that the scope of the Leviathan's perspective on the problem was galactic not larger.

 

"You cannot conceive of a GALAXY that bends to your will."

 

This statement reaffirms the context of what scope the entire conversation is about, what scope they created the catalyst to preform within. How do we know this? Because this is telling us what perspective the Leviathans are viewing their situation and problem from. And it is clearly GALACTIC.

 

https://youtu.be/lEqlG6bhZ80?t=3m29s

 

"There was no mistake. It still serves its purpose."

 

And that purpose it to keep tribute flowing. We know this because this was already identified as the PROBLEM in the conversation and that the catalyst was created for this solution. So if the catalyst is doing what it was programmed to do we can infer that the entire harvesting cycle is to provide tribute to the Leviathans in for form of Harbinger.

 

https://youtu.be/lEqlG6bhZ80?t=3m52s

 

Further into the conversation we actually see that the scope of the catalyst itself is LIMITED to the Galaxy created yet a third piece of evidence that the catalyst was looking to create a solution on the GALACTIC scale.

 

"To find a solution, it required information--physical drawn from organic life in the cosmos. It created an army of pawns that searched the GALAXY, gathering this data."

 

If the catalyst had a mandate that spans beyond the milky way galaxy then it would have search beyond just our galaxy for a solution but it does not. Why? because again we can CLEARLY see from the conversation the entire content of the catalyst's scope is within out galaxy. We are give very explicit limitations to its scope in this conversation we constantly have the scope commented on within a galactic context.

 

https://youtu.be/lEqlG6bhZ80?t=4m54s

 

 

Everything the Leviathan tells us about the reapers and the "intelligence" is within the context of the above. When it talks about preservation of life it is within the context of that being a solution to the problem of tribute not flowing from a dead race. With this core context the idea that preservation of all life outside the milky way makes no sense when everything about the conversation was talked about on a galactic scale.

 

Did the reapers have the capability to reach other galaxies? Yes but their mandate was limited to the Galaxy and this is confirmed multiple times in the conversation and once specifically speaking about what the catalyst does to solve the problem.

 

Here is the evidence. Is it proof? No but i always said "evidence (not proof)" when stating there is evidence that the reapers are confined to the milky way.

 

So I again ask you what evidence do you have that the reapers are extra galactic in scope? You asked me for my evidence and I went into considerable detail providing it. Why do I doubt I will get anything close to this level of response back?

 

Anyway it is very late so i will stop here and maybe break down further conversations about what reapers do between cycles. To further show the scale to be GALACTIC. And yet i doubt it will change anyone's mind because most people are opinion based not evidence based. 

[Gothfather]

I have seen the Ark Theory and this topic also states if we did it than maybe other cycles did it to. I do like the Ark Theory but would rather Bioware canonize an ending then precede in going to Andromeda because of their stated reason for going to Andromeda lol. I don't care if they step on my ending choice because they step all over them with each entry to the series since they wanted to open it to newcomers with each game. So I call total and complete BS that they care about Player choices so why should they care now with the ME3 endings lol. Only choice I saw that went through to ME3 from ME1 was my LI choice. 

 

You may want a canon ending but that isn't what you claimed you claimed...

 

"Sorry but moving to Andromeda means that the cycles have ended and if the cycles have ended than that means we won the war with the Reapers. We can't get to Andromeda before the Trilogy or during the Trilogy it has to be after."

 

That is a direct quote. I clearly showed that premiss is wrong.

 

You made the above quote in response to me saying...

 

"Not only that but much of the refusal to accept that the reapers are likely to have been limited to the milky way, is because certain people on this thread have an agenda of trying to force Bioware to canonize one of the endings, or more specifically the ending THEY want canonized. Or it is the agenda to try and stop the game from being made in Andromeda so they try and "explain" why moving here doesn't make a difference so Bioware should just make the game in the Milky way. Aka certain posters here have an agenda and they don't care about facts and evidence they just want what they want period and everyone else can go frak themselves."

 

So how do you respond to me showing that you can leave during the trilogy and not after? By stating you are aware of the theory but dismiss it because you WANT a canon ending. Which just proves my point doesn't it?

[Mistic]

The Catalyst decided that the harvest/reaper creation was the best solution after studying all the data it had collected and made tests. It tells Shepard as much. We are long past the study phase of the directive. In fact, we are long past the implementation and automation phases too. Anything from another galaxy would have been taken into consideration billions of years ago when the Catalyst was looking for a solution.

 

As Gothfather has kindly pointed out in a previous post, the Leviathans pretty much confirm that the Catalyst, for some reason, limited its search of knowledge to the galaxy, and only the galaxy. My point is, if the directive remains the same (which the Leviathans also confirm: "It still serves its purpose"), it must have limits. Because if we think that its implementation has to be so absolute that their appearance in other galaxies should be expected, it had to be equally absolute in the studying phase. But it wasn't.

 

We have a series of games in which there is no evidence to suggest the Catalyst or the Reapers operated outside the MW at any phase of their directive, while a different interpretation of the existing evidence suggests there was some limit to their range of action. From an in-universe point of view, Occam's razor favours it.

 

That such interpretation wasn't exactly what Bioware had in mind and that it's the ambiguity which saves them from not thinking things through is another matter.