263 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Shot First]

Actually, it was said by Javik. Also, from wiki/Codex: "The Protheans also genetically altered the asari to grant them biotic capabilities, and defended Thessia from an asteroid strike and the resource-hungry oravores." Naturally occuring Eezo is found after supernovas. I think we can agree that Thessia didn't blow up.

 

All that aside (and I could write a dozen essays on how non-functional the science behind ME is), once Asari were born on other planets or on ships/stations, they shouldn't be biotic anymore because of the lack of Element Zero exposure. Despite that, every single Asari ever was a biotic, even if some didn't choose to develop that talent.

 

Supernovas also create calcium and iron. We're literally made out of stuff created in exploding stars.

 

That said I just watched a youtube vid of Javik on Thessia again to double check if I was remembering it correctly, and I wasn't. It isn't my favorite bit of dialogue from Javik, since it doesn't mesh well with what is said about Thessia or it's animal life, but he does say that the Protheans were responsible for the Asari being biotic. You were right.

 

It is one of those things that makes me miss a writer like Chris L'Etoile with a hard Sci Fi bent, because someone needed to say, "Wait, we made Thessia so loaded with eezo that the animal kingdom is biotic, and dust-form eezo permeates the entire food chain and water supply...but the Asari need genetic engineering to become biotics? That doesn't make sense."

 

Oh well...

 

One explanation for the Asari being biotic even when born off of Thessia might be that they terraform worlds they colonize, importing plant and animal life from Thessia. Maybe they get the eezo from the stuff they eat? That's probably the case with spacers at least, since most of their food is probably imported. That's assuming of course that anyone actually gave spacer/colonist Asari being biotics any thought, which is probably unlikely. 

[themikefest]

Yet more proof of asari superiority.

Where was that superiority during Thessia?
 

#AsariMasterRace

more like #asorryrace

[Quarian Master Race]

Also,

Jokes and race wars aside, I definitely sympathize with your plight. When you've got a violent Liam Neeson in your face with a deadly weapon, you don't have time to debate the ethics or morality of defending yourself. If you want evidence of this universal fact, ask anyone from Albania.........assuming that the entire country hasn't been depopulated after the full on genocide that was the 3 Taken movies.

[ZipZap2000]

Change the codex.

The game plays better with powers that don't make sense so come up with an explanation, change the codex and everyone is happy.

[KamuiStorm]

Jokes and race wars aside, I definitely sympathize with your plight. When you've got a violent Liam Neeson in your face with a deadly weapon, you don't have time to debate the ethics or morality of defending yourself. If you want evidence of this universal fact, ask anyone from Albania.........assuming that the entire country hasn't been depopulated after the full on genocide that was the 3 Taken movies.

oh maker I can't even, my side's are in agony over this post.

[Barquiel]

Anyway, another big issue with the Asari is just how few of them there are - I think around 6 Billion or so if you add up all the planet descriptions - for the oldest species in the galaxy, who live over a thousand and who can breed with anything for centuries.
6 Billion? Yeah right.

 
We're probably not supposed to think that the ME3 galaxy map shows every colonized asari/salarian/turian world. The Council said in ME1 that they're responsible for "trillions of lives" (and in one of the novels Anderson says that the Asari are the most widespread species), we never see these "trillions"...

[Quarian Master Race]

 
We're probably not supposed to think that the ME3 galaxy map shows every colonized asari/salarian/turian world. The Council said in ME1 that they're responsible for "trillions of lives" (and in one of the novels Anderson says that the Asari are the most widespread species), we never see these "trillions"...

Eh, I'm thinking that was probably just a writer oversight aimed at dramatic "Feels" that got obviously made no sense. Homeworlds are seemingly always by far the most populated and of the Citadel species they vary in the single digit to tens of billions. Even a huge colony like Illium doesn't have as many people living on it as even modern day middling population country like Egypt or Vietnam (roughly 90 million each). Terra Nova was the most populous human colony with a population roughly the size of a middling city like Boston or Ankara. (4.4 million). Unless each species maintains literally hundreds of thousands of colony worlds, "trillions" isn't possible.

[DaemionMoadrin]

That doesn't explain how everything on Thessia is Biotic. Or how the Asari never noticed their Gods looked like Protheans Or why the Protheans didn't interfere with Humanity etc. Basically Javik shits on the lore big style.

 

Anyway, another big issue with the Asari is just how few of them there are - I think around 6 Billion or so if you add up all the planet descriptions - for the oldest species in the galaxy, who live over a thousand and who can breed with anything for centuries.

6 Billion? Yeah right.

 

As I said, every species (except maybe the humans) suffer from bad writing.

 

There should be at least 100 billion Asari in the galaxy, just from being the suspiciously attractive dominant species that can mate with anything that has a pulse advanced nervous system and controlling a dozen worlds. A planet like Earth can support ~10 billion people at our current technology level. With ME tech, we could go up to 20. The Asari control how many garden worlds? 8? 9? How many space ships, stations and colony outposts do they have? What about the Asari living on other species' planets? Someone dropped the ball here... there should be Asari everywhere.

 

Although then people would realize that the entire Asari species is as doomed. Why? Because they do not evolve anymore. Their method of reproduction circumvents all evolutionary processes in favour of a random number generator.

Survival of the fittest? Nope. Parents don't pass their genes on, every asari child is conceived by rolling dice on its stats. It doesn't matter if the mother was a famous huntress with extremely powerful biotics, the kid won't inherit it. The father never gets to pass anything on anyway, which makes finding a mate pointless from an evolutionary point of view. Even better, if I take the description literal, then the genes already present get scrambled. Nothing new is added  through mutation or gene recombination, so modern Asari are exactly the same as the ones 50.000 years ago. How did they even survive the first 38.000 years if pureblood Asari mating with each other inevitably leads to Ardat-Yakshi, who are addicted to killing... and are sterile? The entire species would have died out within a few millenia, long before they discovered space travel and other species.

 

Btw... when the Council needed an army against the Rachni, why did they have to uplift the Krogan? They already had the Salarians. Sure, they are individually weak and squishy, but their females can lay entire clutches of eggs, they mature extremely quickly, they absorb knowledge at an unreal rate and you could have a combat ready army within a few years. Place that project on Thessia and they'd be biotics, too. Zerg tactics with biotic commando Salarians. Boom, no more Rachni.

 

Krogan on the other hand don't grow up that quickly, they probably need 2-3 decades to get out of puberty (human puberty ends with ~23, until then you still grow/change). How did the Council manage to get the tribal Krogan living in an apocalyptic, nuclear wasteland shaped up into an army in time to defeat the Rachni? Seems implausible.

 

Even better... how did the Turians manage to stop the Krogan with the Genophage? The Krogan had almost won, they were already in orbit over Palaven. A genetic modification that alters birthrates is not something you can a. distribute to every Krogan in existence, especially not when they are in warships over your homeworld, and b. it's only going to make them mad. It doesn't impair their combat abilities at all.

 

This leads to the BS that is the genophage. Adjusting the birthrates from 1000 kids to single digits is an excellent idea... if you don't mind forcing your societal norms on an alien species who more or less developed to survive on a hostile world filled with other Krogan. But that's not what it does. Instead of fixing birth rates, only 1 in 1000 females is fertile. All the others bear dead children. (Why even allow gestation, Mordin?! Sadist.) So, a complete failure in all regards.

 

Compared to this mess (and hey, I could write about that for days), being a biotic of varying strength according to what the story needs isn't so bad, is it?

[KamuiStorm]

Wasn't it mentioned the asari when mind melding shift through genetic code to find and absorb the most suitable traits for their off spring?

[UniformGreyColor]

I approve of this, but I'd like some sort of drawback. Have biotics be pathetically useless at low levels, or do uncontrollable AoE friendly fire damage or something.

 

Or just long cooldown times.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Forgot to explain something about the Asari: Being long lived means their population grows at a higher rate than others since the older generations stick around and since they stay in that stage for centuries, every Asari could have dozens of kids in her lifetime.

 

The other thing I forgot was explaining why the lack of evolution is so critical for the species: They can not adapt to a changing environment. Example: A new type of plant (maybe on a colony world) distributes its pollen into the air. It leads to severe allergic reactions in one in three Asari, the others get a light fever but are otherwise okay. In a normal population the allergic Asari would die out because the healthy ones have more advantages (like being able to breath during summer). Only since that trait can't be inherited, the percentage of allergic:healthy stays the same. And that's just one environmental effect. There are thousands and the species can't adapt to a single one. By all rights and logic they should be dead already.

 

 

Wasn't it mentioned the asari when mind melding shift through genetic code to find and absorb the most suitable traits for their off spring?

 

Nope, it's random. Do you have any idea how complex genetic code is? A mind capable of sifting through it and modifying it would be unreal. Even more so if it manages to do the impossible in the brief moments of an orgasm. ^^

 

Quote: "An asari provides two copies of her own genes to her offspring, one of which is passed on unaltered. The second set of genes is altered in a unique process called melding, also known as the joining. During melding, the eyes of the asari initiating the meld dilate as she consciously attunes her nervous system to her partner's, sending and receiving electrical impulses directly through the skin. Effectively, the asari and her partner briefly become one unified nervous system, sharing memories, thoughts, and feelings. The offspring is always an asari, regardless of the species or sex of the "father" and in the case that the offspring is of two asari, the father is the one who does not give birth."

 

Even if they could, they can only access their own genetic code. It would mean a severely limited gene pool, especially after 50k years. The only difference between the Asari today and the Asari back then would be that the current version is better optimized. Imagine an old 286 PC, optimized over years... but it still isn't able to keep up with today's applications.

 

So, how many Asari existed 50.000 years ago? Let's say 100.000 that were altered by the Protheans? Sounds like a viable population to start with. That's how many unique genetic codes exist for the entire species. Minus all those who died since then, which is likely a lot. It's no wonder all Asari look alike, they probably all share the same genes.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Or just long cooldown times.

I dislike cooldowns.

[UniformGreyColor]

I dislike cooldowns.

 

LOL, I can imagine.

[Cyonan]

This problem would go away if all the characters followed the same rules.

 

It actually wouldn't go away, because the player will be able out smart the AI.

 

AI in general is not very good right now if put on even ground with a Human. They need some kind of an advantage if above average players are to get any bit of challenge out of the higher difficulties.

[Sylvius the Mad]

It actually wouldn't go away, because the player will be able out smart the AI.

AI in general is not very good right now if put on even ground with a Human. They need some kind of an advantage if above average players are to get any bit of challenge out of the higher difficulties.

Encounter placement. Numbers. Terrain.

But the rules need to be the same.

[Cyonan]

Encounter placement. Numbers. Terrain.

But the rules need to be the same.

 

The numbers would have to severely out number the player, which would shift the entire balance of the game so that single target builds are kind of pointless because you're fighting so many enemies now. It'd become an AoE spamfest.

 

Even in the Citadel DLC doing the Armax Arena playing against clones of the 6 classes in a 6v1 they still weren't a match for me even with my own abilities and better hit points than I had. I even had all penalties turned on which included: My shields are knocked out in 1 hit, -10% damage for me, +10% damage for enemies, enemies have stronger shields, and I get no ammo replenished during the fight.

[Sylvius the Mad]

LOL, I can imagine.

At the very least they need a lore-based justification.

Every mechanic warrants a lore-based justification, or an explanation for why an abstraction is necessary. In tabletop games, the abstractions make sense because the players need to be able to do the calculations manually. But in a CRPG, complex calculations can be handled by the computer, so the reason for most abstractions vanishes.

[Sylvius the Mad]

The numbers would have to severely out number the player, which would shift the entire balance of the game so that single target builds are kind of pointless because you're fighting so many enemies now. It'd become an AoE spamfest.

Even in the Citadel DLC doing the Armax Arena playing against clones of the 6 classes in a 6v1 they still weren't a match for me even with my own abilities and better hit points than I had. I even had all penalties turned on which included: My shields are knocked out in 1 hit, -10% damage for me, +10% damage for enemies, enemies have stronger shields, and I get no ammo replenished during the fight.

That's what Nightmare is for. If you want to be challenged, the game can give the enemies bonuses.

But there should be a difficulty setting where the mechanics are symmetrical. Where the enemies have access to exactly the same powers as you, and they affect you for the same duration and do proportionally equivalent damage.

Ever one-shot an enemy with a headshot? Ever had it happen to you?

There's the problem.

[Gothfather]

First off i want to say that perfect balance isn't the key to good gameplay be it single player or multiplayer. Rock, paper, scissors is a perfectly balanced game and it is also one of the most boring games ever invented. It is so balanced that it is used more to adjudicate disputes than played for entertainment. This is a clear example of perfect balance not equating to fun. Games should be fun to play first and foremost. What you need to do is have combat roughly balanced to the player doesn't feel either that the opponents are either too tough or too easy. This is true in both multiplayer and single player. If Biotics are OP then you get a situation where all multiplayer is with biotics which defeats the purpose of creating diverse classes with diverse tactics. A non diverse setting for multiplayer creates a bland and stale environment because there are no synergies created because everyone is playing the same thing. That seems a pointless exercise and thus biotics shouldn't be op from a multiplayer standpoint. 

 

In single player environments you don't want the player feeling that nothing can hurt them, that combat is zero challenge just because they played a biotic character. Secondly you don't want to balance the game with the assumption that player took a biotic class so when they take a non biotic class the enemy is simply too powerful. An OP biotic class creates an environment that is either too easy or too difficult which makes the idea of biotics being OP a failed premiss.

 

Now i have zero problem with biotics being SLIGHTLY more powerful than tech or combat classes just as i wouldn't have a problem with Tech being slightly more power than the other classes or combat classes being the best. The key is to make all classes close enough that any players' preferred play style is VIABLE regardless of the class.

 

I think it is a waste of resources for bioware to go out of their way to make biotics more powerful just for the sake of making biotics the best. Design the classes to be enjoyable and make them roughly balanced and let the chips fall where they may as to which classes are the most powerful. It is a hell of a lot cheaper to just do this then spending countless iterations to class abilities just to makes sure biotics classes are the most powerful. The resources would be better spent in almost any other way. In terms of creating a "fun" game to play.

[rashie]

Also,

At least the clone wars tv series realised what a waste it was to kill that character off so early, best thing that ever came out of the prequel trilogy era.

[Cyonan]

That's what Nightmare is for. If you want to be challenged, the game can give the enemies bonuses.

But there should be a difficulty setting where the mechanics are symmetrical. Where the enemies have access to exactly the same powers as you, and they affect you for the same duration and do proportionally equivalent damage.

Ever one-shot an enemy with a headshot? Ever had it happen to you?

There's the problem.

 

Having an enemy 1 shot you by sheer luck is something I will never consider to be good design. It was stupid when Baldur's Gate had it, and it would still be stupid to have it in a Mass Effect game. Since you can code AI to have 100% perfect accuracy you would literally have to code a "critical hit" chance for them to roll to determine if they aim for your head or your body, which makes it completely random as to if they one shot you.

 

I do think that enemies should have had more abilities in general though, so there's that.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Having an enemy 1 shot you by sheer luck is something I will never consider to be good design. It was stupid when Baldur's Gate had it, and it would still be stupid to have it in a Mass Effect game. Since you can code AI to have 100% perfect accuracy you would literally have to code a "critical hit" chance for them to roll to determine if they aim for your head or your body, which makes it completely random as to if they one shot you.

 

I do think that enemies should have had more abilities in general though, so there's that.

 

All companions in ME2 and ME3 (not sure about ME1) had 100% accuracy, which allowed you to give them hilariously inaccurate weapons like the Tempest and they'd snipe with it.

 

If the enemies had the same skill/weapons, we'd have to rely on stealth kills or die all the time. Not a particularly fun way to play the game.

[Cyonan]

All companions in ME2 and ME3 (not sure about ME1) had 100% accuracy, which allowed you to give them hilariously inaccurate weapons like the Tempest and they'd snipe with it.

 

If the enemies had the same skill/weapons, we'd have to rely on stealth kills or die all the time. Not a particularly fun way to play the game.

 

Companions in Mass Effect are just weird from a mechanic standpoint =P

 

Though if the enemies had the exact same stuff as we do in Mass Effect 3 it'd probably largely be a CC spamfest that makes the Geth look like a relaxing walk in the park.

 

I think that if you took the CC spam out though, players would end up on top due to being able to figure out patterns in the AI.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Having an enemy 1 shot you by sheer luck is something I will never consider to be good design. It was stupid when Baldur's Gate had it, and it would still be stupid to have it in a Mass Effect game. Since you can code AI to have 100% perfect accuracy you would literally have to code a "critical hit" chance for them to roll to determine if they aim for your head or your body, which makes it completely random as to if they one shot you.

Then we shouldn't be able to one-shot them, either.

 

Especially since the ME games let us pause to aim.  Headshots are trivial.

[Cyonan]

Then we shouldn't be able to one-shot them, either.

 

Especially since the ME games let us pause to aim.  Headshots are trivial.

 

You know full well that BioWare didn't intend for that to be the main playstyle and that most people don't play the game like you do.

 

But Headshots are still pretty trivial provided you don't suck at aiming.