28 réponses à ce sujet

[greenbrownblue]

Just wondering. I understand that it was necessary to banish the Evanuris, but could not that be done without creating the Veil? How does the Veil "imprisons" the elven gods? Has this been explained or not?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

It has not. 

[Heimdall]

My understanding is that the Dread Wolf led them somewhere where they would be cut off once the Veil came down (Like the elves in the library, Vir Dirthara).

That's conjecture though.

[Xerrai]

It has been explained (technicaly), but only vaguely. To put it simply: the veil pushing away magic was the only way.

When asked why he would push away the fade that he oh so loves, he says its because "every alternative was worse". Which, combined how they "do not die easily" and how they were power hungry, seems to imply that the evanuris needed to needed not only weakened, but imprisoned not just because he wanted to punish them, but because they could not die by conventional means.

 

Kinda like Corypheaus.

 

But as for how the veil accomplishes this? That has not been adequately explained.

[almasy87]

It has not been explained, no. The fact that the Dread Wolf lead the Creators and the Forgotten Ones into a place where he then "trapped" them is just legends, and we do not know if it is connected in any way to what he really did. Solas did not explain that. :/

But there is a banter with Cole, Solas and a romanced/broken up Lavellan... So maybe creating the Veil put them to "sleep" somehow? Because they didn't have their powers anymore? Maker knows..
 

• Cole: They sleep, masked in a mirror, hiding, hurting, and to wake them... (gasps) Where did it go?

[myahele]

Maybe the Veil is one of the (final) things that keep them trapped?

 

Why and how? We don't know yet. But I suspect that the Veil is especially thick wherever the Evanuris are trapped. 

 

Or it could be similar to the pocket dimension like the Library? They went to their respective pocket dimension via Eluvian which he then put the veil + locked/break their eluvian while they went to sleep.

 

We know ancient elves took years to do things, so they probably believed that Solas' plan needed ___ amount of time to work. More than enough time for his plan to work, lol.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

One thing I can say is that based on the records in the fade library eve the inhabitants of the time didn't seem to understand why the Evanuris were trapped.

[thats1evildude]

Didn't Solas say something along the lines that they were banished to the farthest reaches of the Fade? Perhaps the Veil keeps them from finding their way back to the physical world.

[Dai Grepher]

I think closing the Veil in on their lands caused their eluvians to stop functioning. Now the evanuris are trapped in their own Crossroad worlds, which is a space between the Fade and the Real.

 

Basically, the Crossroads when Morrigan first showed it to you. But think of it in terms of being on a side of an eluvian with a castle or at least a tower, and just grey fog all around it.

 

This is why the evanuris cannot be reached through the Fade either. They are not in the Fade or in the real world.

[Bardox9]

I think closing the Veil in on their lands caused their eluvians to stop functioning. Now the evanuris are trapped in their own Crossroad worlds, which is a space between the Fade and the Real.

 

Basically, the Crossroads when Morrigan first showed it to you. But think of it in terms of being on a side of an eluvian with a castle or at least a tower, and just grey fog all around it.

 

This is why the evanuris cannot be reached through the Fade either. They are not in the Fade or in the real world.

This is what I came around to as well. That each of the Evanuris had their own little pocket dimension, a place like the cross roads, to call home and they are locked in there as the veil disrupts the ability of the Eluvian within that pocket to connect to another outside.

[Big I]

Cole has one of his clairvoyant dialogues where he says "the wolf gnawed off his leg to escape the trap". If we assume Solas is the wolf, it's plausible that Solas set up some special prison in the Fade to hold them, and that escaping it himself is one of the reasons he lost so much power.

[Blood Mage Reaver]

Magic in Thedas work essentially by focusing one's will over the Fade to reshape reality around them.

 

The Evanuris and Solas were godlike because they could manipulate the Fade with such mastery that reality was essentially their playground.

 

There have been numerous hints that Focus played a huge part into one's magic power and place amongst the ancient Elven hierarchy and that having sufficient Focus meant that you could neutralize the powers of other mages in the sense that neither Evanuris could kill the other.

 

Because of that implied reality-warper threshold shared amongst the strongest elves, even if Solas was outnumbered the rest of the Evanuris could not kill him or his followers because his Focus held domain over the area of the Fade in which they resided much like how demons and spirits have realms where they have influence above outsiders.

 

What the Evanuris did by murdering Mythal was basically breaking that threshold which held the world in balance until that point.

 

Mythal was one of the two strongest Elves and to overcome her Focus to the point of killing her meant using some absurd power that would certainly destroy the world.

 

Hence Solas was faced with two choices, either he armed himself with that same kind of power to continue his war against the other gods or he removed that power from the world so that it would no longer bring it to the brink of destruction.

 

Since escalating the magic arms race amongst the gods would spell certain doom for everyone, the only possible alternative was cutting off the source of power which all magic came from.

 

Veils are meant to conceal thus disrupting the view of anyone trying to focus onto something and, as the name implies, Solas's veil ultimately concealed the world from the Evanuris and disrupted their focus over it.

 

While the Evanuris didn't lose their powers, they could no longer apply them to the world because they could no longer focus their will onto it from the Fade.

 

For Solas this was considered the ultimate punishment as, if you paid attention to the Spirit of Command, nothing is more frustrating to a being accostumed with control over the world around it than having no influence over ther objects of their desire.

[greenbrownblue]

 

It has not been explained, no. The fact that the Dread Wolf lead the Creators and the Forgotten Ones into a place where he then "trapped" them is just legends, and we do not know if it is connected in any way to what he really did. Solas did not explain that. :/

But there is a banter with Cole, Solas and a romanced/broken up Lavellan... So maybe creating the Veil put them to "sleep" somehow? Because they didn't have their powers anymore? Maker knows..
 

• Cole: They sleep, masked in a mirror, hiding, hurting, and to wake them... (gasps) Where did it go?

 

Hum, masked in a mirror? This reminds me of Geek Remix Eluvian Keys theory :v

[greenbrownblue]

 

Magic in Thedas work essentially by focusing one's will over the Fade to reshape reality around them.

 

The Evanuris and Solas were godlike because they could manipulate the Fade with such mastery that reality was essentially their playground.

 

There have been numerous hints that Focus played a huge part into one's magic power and place amongst the ancient Elven hierarchy and that having sufficient Focus meant that you could neutralize the powers of other mages in the sense that neither Evanuris could kill the other.

 

Because of that implied reality-warper threshold shared amongst the strongest elves, even if Solas was outnumbered the rest of the Evanuris could not kill him or his followers because his Focus held domain over the area of the Fade in which they resided much like how demons and spirits have realms where they have influence above outsiders.

 

What the Evanuris did by murdering Mythal was basically breaking that threshold which held the world in balance until that point.

 

Mythal was one of the two strongest Elves and to overcome her Focus to the point of killing her meant using some absurd power that would certainly destroy the world.

 

Hence Solas was faced with two choices, either he armed himself with that same kind of power to continue his war against the other gods or he removed that power from the world so that it would no longer bring it to the brink of destruction.

 

Since escalating the magic arms race amongst the gods would spell certain doom for everyone, the only possible alternative was cutting off the source of power which all magic came from.

 

Veils are meant to conceal thus disrupting the view of anyone trying to focus onto something and, as the name implies, Solas's veil ultimately concealed the world from the Evanuris and disrupted their focus over it.

 

While the Evanuris didn't lose their powers, they could no longer apply them to the world because they could no longer focus their will onto it from the Fade.

 

For Solas this was considered the ultimate punishment as, if you paid attention to the Spirit of Command, nothing is more frustrating to a being accostumed with control over the world around it than having no influence over ther objects of their desire.

 

As almasy87 pointed out Cole mentioned (prolly) Evanuris hiding and hurting. Seems like "the ultimate price for their misdeeds" should be something more tiring than inabiity to satisfy their purpose. Actually, such frustration could only turn them into demons.
 

I see your point tho. I made a theory vid about Elven pantheon being tied to spirits (like "Elgar'Nan" - "Spirit of Vengance"), so I really like how you tried to understand what would be the ultimate punishment for a spirit or any Fade-dependent creature. Thanks!

[Gervaise]

I think the pocket dimension/eluvian doorway has something to do with it.    He suggested that wherever they are they are suffering an eternity of torment, which doesn't sound much like sleep to me, except they are super powerful dreamers, so may be their dreams are haunted or as suggested, being trapped with the inability to interact with anyone else would be a torment to them.     Cole says they are hurting so clearly they are tormented in their sleeping state and not likely to be in the best frame of mind when freed.

 

What puzzles me is how Solas acquired both the knowledge and the power to create the trap.    Obviously it drained him and even after millennia asleep he was still pretty weak but it doesn't seem like something you would come up with on a hunch.    So did someone suggest the idea to him in his dreams?     Also it was never made clear if the Dalish were right about the Forgotten Ones.   The way Gelduran expresses himself, it would seem like his views are very similar to Solas.     Did the Forgotten Ones assist him, if not physically then from wherever they were deep in the Void?    

[greenbrownblue]

Cole has one of his clairvoyant dialogues where he says "the wolf gnawed off his leg to escape the trap". If we assume Solas is the wolf, it's plausible that Solas set up some special prison in the Fade to hold them, and that escaping it himself is one of the reasons he lost so much power.

Hum, I actually analysed that sentence when I was making a vid about solas and elven pantheon being tied to spirits.

 

As we know spirits gain power from belief, worshippers and devotion to their cause. By creating the Veil ("he broke the dreams") Solas lost supporters (in the shattered library a spirit shares with us the last words of a terrified elf asking "what has he done") consequently making himself weaker ("I was too weak to unlock it after my slumber"). By creating the Veil he crippled himself - "chewed his leg off". 

 

Do you remember the story about Falon'Din? "His apetite for adulation was so great he began wars to amass more worshippers" and even tried to force Mythal's people to force to obedience - that's when Mythal reacted.

Mythal even after creation of the Veil did not lose worshippers and that's why Solas came to her to borrow/take/absorb her powers. 

Hum, assuming that this theory is right he will really have to try hard to spread the truth about the Evanuris among. For now, Evanuris have a huge number of Dalish marked with Vallaslin who in addition still worship them. 

[greenbrownblue]

Didn't Solas say something along the lines that they were banished to the farthest reaches of the Fade? Perhaps the Veil keeps them from finding their way back to the physical world.

Hum.... I remember him saying "Evanuris are banished foreover, paying the ultimate price for their misdeeds", but nothing about the Void.

[greenbrownblue]

I think the pocket dimension/eluvian doorway has something to do with it.    He suggested that wherever they are they are suffering an eternity of torment, which doesn't sound much like sleep to me, except they are super powerful dreamers, so may be their dreams are haunted or as suggested, being trapped with the inability to interact with anyone else would be a torment to them.     Cole says they are hurting so clearly they are tormented in their sleeping state and not likely to be in the best frame of mind when freed.

 

What puzzles me is how Solas acquired both the knowledge and the power to create the trap.    Obviously it drained him and even after millennia asleep he was still pretty weak but it doesn't seem like something you would come up with on a hunch.    So did someone suggest the idea to him in his dreams?     Also it was never made clear if the Dalish were right about the Forgotten Ones.   The way Gelduran expresses himself, it would seem like his views are very similar to Solas.     Did the Forgotten Ones assist him, if not physically then from wherever they were deep in the Void?    

A spirit of wisdom and its wisdom buddies would have enough knowledge to create such a "perfect" trap, would not they :3 ... Fits "Solas is connected to a Spirit" theory

I agree with you on that Eluvian part of your post.

[greenbrownblue]

I think closing the Veil in on their lands caused their eluvians to stop functioning. Now the evanuris are trapped in their own Crossroad worlds, which is a space between the Fade and the Real.

 

Basically, the Crossroads when Morrigan first showed it to you. But think of it in terms of being on a side of an eluvian with a castle or at least a tower, and just grey fog all around it.

 

This is why the evanuris cannot be reached through the Fade either. They are not in the Fade or in the real world.

That's a really good idea. Best I've seen so far ^^ !

C'mon David Gaider, if it's you, you do not have to hide behind Dai Gepher account to throw at us some hints !

[MattH]

Morrigan said that 'not all eluvians lead back to our word'. I think its possible Solas trapped them behind one, with the veil closing the way back.

[Aren]

Ask to professor Solas

[BSpud]

 

• Cole: They sleep, masked in a mirror, hiding, hurting, and to wake them... (gasps) Where did it go?

 

 

[ModernAcademic]

Just wondering. I understand that it was necessary to banish the Evanuris, but could not that be done without creating the Veil? How does the Veil "imprisons" the elven gods? Has this been explained or not?

 

No, it hasn't.

 

Demons can come across, as well as spirits when the Veil is torn. But the Evanuris can't, for some obscure reason.

[Aren]

Hum, I actually analysed that sentence when I was making a vid about solas and elven pantheon being tied to spirits.

As we know spirits gain power from belief, worshippers and devotion to their cause. By creating the Veil ("he broke the dreams") Solas lost supporters (in the shattered library a spirit shares with us the last words of a terrified elf asking "what has he done") consequently making himself weaker ("I was too weak to unlock it after my slumber"). By creating the Veil he crippled himself - "chewed his leg off".

Do you remember the story about Falon'Din? "His apetite for adulation was so great he began wars to amass more worshippers" and even tried to force Mythal's people to force to obedience - that's when Mythal reacted.
Mythal even after creation of the Veil did not lose worshippers and that's why Solas came to her to borrow/take/absorb her powers.

Hum, assuming that this theory is right he will really have to try hard to spread the truth about the Evanuris among. For now, Evanuris have a huge number of Dalish marked with Vallaslin who in addition still worship them.

It doesn't seem to me that the veil stopped the Nightmare demon from it's ability to feed from mortals.

[Big I]

As we know spirits gain power from belief, worshippers and devotion to their cause.

 

There's no mention of spirits gaining power by having worshippers. The only thing in the games that talk about "spirit power levels" are the codex entries about demons, written by Circle mages and enchanters. They say that spirits that reflect complex emotions are more powerful, and contrast Rage (weak) and Pride (strong). The only other way we've seen spirits gain power are the Baroness feeding on her subjects to become Pride, and the Nightmare (a spirit which reflects Fear of the Blight) feeding on people by taking their memories. That's less "being worshipped" and more "being a vampire".