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[Lady Artifice]

I also really love the idea of more royalty, or higher ranking nobility. Especially the ambitious variety.

 

We've already had someone like Alistair, who will have serious compunctions about carrying on an affair, or generally treating marriage like a simple matter of legality and politics.

 

I'd be really interested in having the opposite. A Nevarran dragon hunting noble with serious ambitions, who upon romancing the protagonist develops the intention to continue on their current path (political marriage, etc) while still "keeping" the protagonist as a romantic partner. 

 

Something like that could turn the usual companion dynamic on it's head. There's no swaying the LI from their plans at all, the focus is placed entirely on their effort to convince you to be cool with it, and allows a wide range of reactions from the player character. 

 

I'd especially like it if it highlights the temperament of the LI. The Nevarran noble I imagine has been given every advantage, and isn't accustomed to being denied anything. Add to that a tendency to treat the object of their affection a little possessively, and you've got the recipe for one of those intensely base breaking romances.

[wright1978]

Turnabout's fair play. Leliana's my HOF mistress.

[Undead Han]

I've come back to this thread several times, but have hesitated to post anything. 

 

I think it is easier for me to list what traits I wouldn't like in a character that is a potential LI, than the reverse. I think the other issue is that a LI doesn't necessarily have to be a character that I'd be drawn to in real life. It is more about how they are written and fit into the story, or interact with the protagonist.

 

Slightly O/T I suppose, but one thing i'd love the DA series to explore with the Human Noble background is arranged marriages...

 

They were a fact of life for medieval nobility. Marriages between the high born were rarely built around love, with sons and daughters instead being married off by their parents to form political bonds. Sometimes a loving relationship could develop out of those pairings, but that of course was not always the case.

 

We've yet to have that be a factor however with Human Nobles. I think it could be interesting if Bioware had a HN player character start the game betrothed to the son or daughter of some other noble or royal house, and to a person the player character has never even met. Throughout the course of the game no doubt many people would have that character fall into a romance arc with one of the companions or advisers, despite being promised to another. I'd have that relationship end up being discovered by the Human Noble's family, triggering a personal background quest where a member of your family demands you end the affair at once, or risk disgracing the family and causing the marriage to be called off. To add to the stakes, maybe your family should have fallen into a desperate financial state, with the betrothal (and dowry) necessary to reverse their falling fortunes.

 

Does that Noble choose duty and family over love?

 

I think it could provide for an interesting dilemma and add some color to the protagonist's chosen background. 

[wright1978]

I'm not really a fan of the faceless arranged marriage.If there's going to be an arranged marriage i'd really want to meet the person along the line(like there is with Anora) to give it more substance.

[Undead Han]

I'm not really a fan of the faceless arranged marriage.If there's going to be an arranged marriage i'd really want to meet the person along the line(like there is with Anora) to give it more substance.

 

I think the issue with that would that a lot of people would choose the arranged marriage over the LI if that person was attractive (LOL), particularly if they are charismatic or come across as likeable.

 

By having the person the player character is bethrothed to be faceless it makes the choice between duty to family and the character's feelings towards the LI, without being influenced by other factors. In theory, anyway...

[wright1978]

I think the issue with that would that a lot of people would choose the arranged marriage over the LI if that person was attractive (LOL), particularly if they are charismatic or come across as likeable.

 

By having the person the player character is bethrothed to be faceless it makes the choice between duty to family and the character's feelings towards the LI, without being influenced by other factors. In theory, anyway...

 

I think people would just pick their love they've spent hours with over a duty to a family(most probably thinly introduced) trying to sell them as a prize under cover of duty. Meeting the potential bride/groom might at least add the complication that they might gel with your character or their aims or potentially seeing them meet a bad end due to your choice to abandon the marriage.

[karushna5]

I think people would just pick their love they've spent hours with over a duty to a family(most probably thinly introduced) trying to sell them as a prize under cover of duty. Meeting the potential bride/groom might at least add the complication that they might gel with your character or their aims or potentially seeing them meet a bad end due to your choice to abandon the marriage.

 Actually I love the idea, but as long as it is introduced well. Think of this,  what if someone like Josephine is your intended. Instead of having a battle with their fiance, you have to deal with breaking off an engagement, or continuing it. Instead there is a realistic drama in place you can pursue or not.

 

If you want to romance Cassandra, Leliana will be angry and Josephine probably would understand but be sad and slightly chilly.

 

Of course it would be way too much work to do, but I like the idea of  2 or 3 backgrounds that change how you interact with characters and how they interact with you in a small group. 

[vertigomez]

From a purely personal, selfish perspective: I want a Safiya-esque character. I'm sure this comes as a surprise to no one, because I bring her up in all the 'ideal romance' threads. But srsly, that description: Her smiles are shy, when they appear, as if she is unused to them - but you sense a resilience beneath, born of an unforgiving land...

Be still, my heart! It's that personality type more than anything. She's studious and scholarly, and reminds me of a much less, err, acerbic version of Morrigan or Vivienne. She's sure of her abilities and she's a great teacher, but that's all she's sure of... inside, she's very lonely, and even creates adhorrible ugly-cute humuncli to keep her company. She's just... precious.

Also, I have a fondness for Neutral types. She and Gann are my favorite NWN2 LIs. (Not that there's a lot of competition, considering Elanee and Casavir...)

Other requests: a KISA type for ladies and a KISA type for men, and at least one dorf LI because ffs, an Avvar, and a female elf for male elves to romance since they haven't had a chance for that in DA yet.

[sylvanaerie]

The return of a rivalry romance like those in DA2 that revolves around our protagonist and their LI having a slightly dysfunctional and love-hate relationship at times, despite their mutual attraction and genuine feelings for each other.

 

Yeah, most people want a perfect and idyllic romance in their RPGs, but it might be fun to have one that is intentionally messy and complicated at times, which falls far closer to how real relationships sometimes are.

 

I really enjoyed these, even if the romances in DA2 were less than stellar to me, the differences between the two were a fantastic way to perceive the companion in different ways. 

 

Me, I'm kind of boring.  I like someone who is sort of a knight (can be Disney or have a little "tarnish" on his armor).  Nice looking is a plus but not required.  He has to have a good personality, able to laugh at himself and make me laugh too.  Someone to sweep me off my feet.

 

By the same token I like playing this type of character and being the 'sweeper off their feet' of the love interest.

 

Bioware has actually come pretty close to this in some of their romances already so usually there's something for me in every game/playthrough.  And as I have no qualms about playing male or female characters, it's easy to mold my roleplay to whatever role I want to assume.

[vertigomez]

The return of a rivalry romance like those in DA2 that revolves around our protagonist and their LI having a slightly dysfunctional and love-hate relationship at times, despite their mutual attraction and genuine feelings for each other.
 
Yeah, most people want a perfect and idyllic romance in their RPGs, but it might be fun to have one that is intentionally messy and complicated at times, which falls far closer to how real relationships sometimes are.

I second this. Not necessarily the return of rivalry (I enjoyed it, but it's hard to do right and resulted in sooo much fandom ******), but relationships that are a little more contentious, where it feels like your LI will stand up to you if they disagree with you, where you can argue a bit but still respect, love, and support each other at the end of the day.

That's one thing I loved about Fenris's rivalmance, and Sera's romance too. Even with a qunari, who is the "easy" option for her, Sera stressed out about falling in love, watching you get hurt, etc. and those scenes were often messy but sweet. I liked that.

There was a little bit of this with Leliana, even... at one point, I tried to break up with her under the pretense that, well, we were facing this horrible danger and I didn't want to put her through that... she proceeded to chew the Warden up, spit them out, and tell them not to even THINK about breaking up with her.

Or even Zevran snapping at you when you get too close to his ~feelings~ or Alistair getting upset when you tell him you think he'd be better off with Anora.

Not that I'd describe ANY of those relationships as dysfunctional, but I enjoyed that they faced real hurdles. It made the happy ending that much sweeter and more worthwhile.

[vertigomez]

I didn't know where else to post this, but I was thinking today how much I enjoy the fact that interracial (interspecies?) relationships are so common for the PC, even if they're uncommon in the wider game world. I appreciate it even if it's given just a nod of acknowledgement, like Alistair worrying that a dwarf Warden will think he's too tall for her, or Fenris asking if it bothers you that he's an elf, or Merrill fretting over the possibility of children (with a male PC, anyway).

I would actually like it if the cultural ramifications were explored a bit more, all jokes about Maric's elf fetish aside (). I dunno. It's just something I like, and all else being equal if the opportunity presents itself my PC's usually end up with a LI who doesn't look like them.

[nightscrawl]

... all jokes about Maric's elf fetish aside ( ). I dunno.

I actually REALLY dislike this aspect of the novels because it plays to the same tired trope of elves in the fantasy genre, which is a shame because the DA writers went to such lengths to make them so unlike other fantasy elves (living in ghettos or as nomads, normal life spans, etc).

It's also rather odd because you can't have something like "humans have an uncanny attraction to elves" as part of the game, because that's not something the player can actually feel, since, you know, it doesn't exist.

 

Unfortunately, that aspect puts a blot on the Fenris romance for me. I know I don't have to RP that way, but it's in my mind, and I can't really "unknow" it. I don't consider it the same as other meta information -- which I usually have no problem ignoring for RP -- for some reason.

[vertigomez]

I actually REALLY dislike this aspect of the novels because it plays to the same tired trope of elves in the fantasy genre, which is a shame because the DA writers went to such lengths to make them so unlike other fantasy elves (living in ghettos or as nomads, normal life spans, etc).

It's also rather odd because you can't have something like "humans have an uncanny attraction to elves" as part of the game, because that's not something the player can actually feel, since, you know, it doesn't exist.
 
Unfortunately, that aspect puts a blot on the Fenris romance for me. I know I don't have to RP that way, but it's in my mind, and I can't really "unknow" it. I don't consider it the same as other meta information -- which I usually have no problem ignoring for RP -- for some reason.

See, it bothered me in the novels because it wasn't just that Maric happened to fall for a few elven women over the course of his life - it's that Gaider kept mentioning their elfyness. "She was a beautiful ELF, with big ELF eyes, and pointy ELF ears, and a slender ELF body."

It's never bothered me in regards to Fenris or Merrill (or Cullen with Lavellan), because even though their race is acknowledged, the narrative never forces Hawke to say, "elves are hot, so I like you" but instead it's "I like you, and you happen to be an elf."

(The closest you get is Hawke telling Fenris he's a handsome elf... but that just felt like an observation to me. In other news: the sky is blue, Isabela is curvy, and Varric is a handsome dwarf. )

[nightscrawl]

^ Hah that is one of my favorite Fenris flirts for his reaction. "Ha... ha... ha... *cough*."

[Steelcan]

I also don't like that strain of the DA lore, it makes sense in settings like LotR because I mean come on....

 

but not so much in DA, even if the newer elf lore is taking some heavy handed approaches to Tolkien

[SardaukarElite]

See, it bothered me in the novels because it wasn't just that Maric happened to fall for a few elven women over the course of his life - it's that Gaider kept mentioning their elfyness. "She was a beautiful ELF, with big ELF eyes, and pointy ELF ears, and a slender ELF body."

 

I find the way fantasy race gets bundled up with build kind of weird. Ignoring the pointy ears, there are some pretty elfy (also dwarfy and even quny I guess) people in the real world. So to have a specific thing for elf ladies over petite women seems odd.

 

Unless you really are crazy for those ears I guess. 

[vertigomez]

^ Hah that is one of my favorite Fenris flirts for his reaction. "Ha... ha... ha... *cough*."

That was pretty cute!

I also don't like that strain of the DA lore, it makes sense in settings like LotR because I mean come on....
 
but not so much in DA, even if the newer elf lore is taking some heavy handed approaches to Tolkien

I kind of figured it was a creepy cultural thing, rather than, like, an objective fact. Attractiveness is subjective, after all. I assumed it was more that elves are - eugh, I feel skeevy saying this - more 'accessible' to humans, and you get situations like the CE origin, or Lia or the qunari converts in DA2 where the authorities look the other way, and elves are considered desirable less because they're attractive and more because they're available (whether they actually are or not).

But then again, that serial killer does say he kills elven children for being too beautiful, and Vaughan has his creepy speech about how lovely elf ladies are. Maybe it's just a chicken and egg scenario..? Maybe elves really are hot to humans because they have pretty eyes or the beardless look is in. *shrruuuug*

I find the way fantasy race gets bundled up with build kind of weird. Ignoring the pointy ears, there are some pretty elfy (also dwarfy and even quny I guess) people in the real world. So to have a specific thing for elf ladies over petite women seems odd.
 
Unless you really are crazy for those ears I guess.

I think we just haven't seen a lot of variation. IRL there are human women who are 90 pounds, and there are human women who are under 4'0" tall, but whether there's similar variation among Thedosian humans... I have no idea. 99% of the people we see having the exact same body model probably doesn't help.

[nightscrawl]

I find the way fantasy race gets bundled up with build kind of weird. Ignoring the pointy ears, there are some pretty elfy (also dwarfy and even quny I guess) people in the real world. So to have a specific thing for elf ladies over petite women seems odd.
 
Unless you really are crazy for those ears I guess.

 
It doesn't come across well in the writing, but I've gotten the impression that it's more about being in the physical presence of the person, being drawn to them in a way one can't explain; a specific elf magnetic pull over humans, as it were. I don't think that if Maric were to look at a portrait of Katriel (or Fiona) alongside one of a human who was just a tad less elfy but had the same physical attributes, that he would have been so enamored. Oh, perhaps he might say that the larger eyes had a certain appeal over the human's, or that the line of the nose gave the face a certain unique quality, but he might not have been overpowered by the beauty as he was when faced with an actual elven woman.

Also, let's not give short-shrift to his age. He was around 17 for the better part of the first novel. Young, horny, inexperienced (sexually and in life), caught up in stressful circumstances, and Katriel took great advantage of that. And even though he was older in the The Calling, there was a whole emo element, in addition to the stress of the circumstance, that drew him to Fiona.

Personally, I think it's more happenstance that both of these women were elves. We don't hear that he has flings with elves specifically after that point, do we?

 

I think we just haven't seen a lot of variation. IRL there are human women who are 90 pounds, and there are human women who are under 4'0" tall, but whether there's similar variation among Thedosian humans... I have no idea. 99% of the people we see having the exact same body model probably doesn't help.

Yes, this is an issue as well, and one that won't be remedied unless they move away from the fixed body model.

[Steelcan]

I think y'all are putting too much thought into this, I think the writers went with it cause its somewhat of a fantasy staple

[SardaukarElite]

 
It doesn't come across well in the writing, but I've gotten the impression that it's more about being in the physical presence of the person, being drawn to them in a way one can't explain; 

 

Isn't attraction generally like that though? The can't explain bit that is. Even if it's purely psychical it's hard to break down exactly what's going on. Poets and scientists can devote their lives to it and it's still really confusing. 

 

I think the thing is fantasy races thrive on extremes and stereotypes. Elves have slender and delicate which is typically regarded as an ideal for women, so they now hold the beautiful ideal, and thus become shorthand for it as well. 

[Sifr]

See, it bothered me in the novels because it wasn't just that Maric happened to fall for a few elven women over the course of his life - it's that Gaider kept mentioning their elfyness. "She was a beautiful ELF, with big ELF eyes, and pointy ELF ears, and a slender ELF body."

 

Perhaps Gaider was trying to subtly tell us that "ELF" is the codeword that Maric liked to to apply to women he found to be, "Elegant, Lithe and totally F***able". That all of them happened to actually be elves was just a hilarious coincidence.

 

Like if he'd ever had met Leliana, I'm sure that Maric would say that for a human, she's a total ELF...

 

[vertigomez]

Perhaps Gaider was trying to subtly tell us that "ELF" is the codeword that Maric liked to to apply to women he found to be, "Elegant, Lithe and totally F***able". That all of them happened to actually be elves was just a hilarious coincidence.
 
Like if he'd ever had met Leliana, I'm sure that Maric would say that for a human, she's a total ELF...
 

Seems legit. Reminds me of that rando in DA2: "Elf this, elf that. I'll elf your mother!"

In any case, another thing I'm grateful for is that elf/human romances are not the be all, end all of interracial relationships. In DAO you could have a dwarf Warden with a human or elven LI, and with Bull or Adaar DAI adds the possibility of qunari/human, qunari/elf, and qunari/dwarf romances. Yay variety~

[nightscrawl]

^ I'm happy that they have chosen not to make race too restrictive in that way. I don't mind it too much in the case of Solas or Cullen since those two were late romance additions. I know there are some people who think realism is the end all be all, but I really prefer to have race selection be about the player and their role-play choices, rather than a limitation or bonus in the game itself. Of course, that's not to say that both race and class selection shouldn't offer interesting alternate paths, but I strongly dislike the notion that any one thing be considered "the best," and I despise those threads on the forums.

 

 

(Maybe if they hadn't spent time on Iron Bull's penis... But yada-yada different cine artists, and all that.)

[vertigomez]

I dislike the notion of "best" too, though I suppose that's ultimately about perspective. A lot of people feel that Cousland and Levallan (or Trev, or Mahariel with the Eluvians and Dalish lore revelations...) are the best, but it's not an objective fact. The best playthrough is whatever is most satisfying for you.

Even in the case of romances, I never felt that - I dunno - the idealized Queen ending was better than the Warden ending for Alistair, or that Seb's offer of a political marriage was a greater draw than the chaste marriage. Different strokes. *shrugs*

I really do think racegating Cullen's romance was silly and arbitrary, though. I know it was a time crunch issue, but still a bit wtf considering every other romance in the series is totes cool with whatever race you are (barring Solas, but the vallaslin issue muddies things).

[nightscrawl]

I dislike the notion of "best" too, though I suppose that's ultimately about perspective. A lot of people feel that Cousland and Levallan (or Trev, or Mahariel with the Eluvians and Dalish lore revelations...) are the best, but it's not an objective fact. The best playthrough is whatever is most satisfying for you.

Even in the case of romances, I never felt that - I dunno - the idealized Queen ending was better than the Warden ending for Alistair, or that Seb's offer of a political marriage was a greater draw than the chaste marriage. Different strokes. *shrugs*

I really do think racegating Cullen's romance was silly and arbitrary, though. I know it was a time crunch issue, but still a bit wtf considering every other romance in the series is totes cool with whatever race you are (barring Solas, but the vallaslin issue muddies things).

 

I actually think that valaslin issue was a shitty thing to have gender gated. I think it is super important for ALL elven players to know this and to have a revelatory moment like that, but only the female elf players, and those who enter into a romance with him, have that opportunity.

 

As for Alistair, I never went with either in my romance plays. I have him as a hardened king and my mage Warden is his mistress, and is content with that fact, even with the possibility that he might have to get married and sire an heir. It's reality, and I never expected a completely happy ending. This is also one reason I wasn't upset with Dorian's leaving in Trespasser; he's given you ample warning, so it should come as no surprise to anyone.