80 réponses à ce sujet

[Donquijote and 59 others]

It seems to be a counterproductive policy and the same should be applied to the legion of the dead.

How do female wardens deal with their calling?

Do they really go on the deep roads to face darkspawn in the hope to die there with honor?

Darkspawn don't kill females they use them for their own ends and those scenario were largely explained in DAO and DAA where in the former case the darkspawn immediately gain an advantage from the females dwarves into the ranks of Branka's expedition while in the latter they tried to kidnap Sirgun and made some of her comrades into Broodmothers (those three in Kal'hirol).

So the best way to combat darkspawns for the GW is to make females join (by force most of the time like in DAO) the GW then at the end of their carrer sent them to the darkspawn in the deep roads... right?

[vbibbi]

Perhaps the line of thought is that most Wardens don't even live long enough to reach their Calling, so it's not a major issue. I believe the creation of broodmothers was either unknown to the surface prior to DAO, or only senior Warden leadership knew about it, similar to their knowledge of the location of the remaining Old God prisons. Leadership could have weighed the cost of decreasing their forces by denying female recruits AND decreasing overall enthusiasm to join the Wardens if the average person knew what awaited them in the Deep Roads, versus allowing women to join (still not a large amount of female recruits, going from Duncan) and relying on the majority dying before their Calling.

[CardButton]

 

It seems to be a counterproductive policy and the same should be applied to the legion of the dead.

How do female wardens deal with their calling?

Do they really go on the deep roads to face darkspawn in the hope to die there with honor?

Darkspawn don't kill females they use them for their own ends and those scenario were largely explained in DAO and DAA where in the former case the darkspawn immediately gain an advantage from the females dwarves into the ranks of Branka's expedition while in the latter they tried to kidnap Sirgun and made some of her comrades into Broodmothers (those three in Kal'hirol).

So the best way to combat darkspawns for the GW is to make females join (by force most of the time like in DAO) the GW then at the end of their carrer sent them to the darkspawn in the deep roads... right?

 

Hmm ... in Awakening the "Architect" seems to have implied that somehow the taint within a Warden is special.  Whatever magic's are added to the ritual in order to craft a Warden and allow those few to "master their taint" would imply that perhaps female Wardens are not appropriate candidates for the creation of a Broodmother (I mean would you really wish to create one that could potentially create spawn that are resistant to the Calling)?

 

Warden's are tainted, but its a different type of taint.  I mean after all, when a normal person consumes the flesh of the Darkspawn they become a ghoul right?

[TheKomandorShepard]

DG in interview said while grey wardens knew about Broodmothers they didn't know how they were produced until after first game. Also seems he was interested in future idea of female warden being refused to ler her go on her calling because of that.

[Heimdall]

I brought this idea up once on the old forums.

If the Grey Wardens didn't know how Broodmothers were produced before, whether they should be sending female wardens on their calling or even extending membership to females is a discussion they need to have from a practical perspective.

Throwing a woman that could get captured in front of the darkspawn could be entirely counterproductive to their ultimate goal of eliminating them. In terms of the Calling at least, it could completely undermine the whole idea of killing as many darkspawn as they can as they become a source of new darkspawn.

It's worth talking about.

[thats1evildude]

I think it's been established that Grey Wardens are basically immune to the broodmothering process, and just become highly-intelligent ghouls. The darkspawn don't seem inclined to take even the female Grey Wardens prisoner, so ...

[Arshei]

After Here lies the Abysm you can send one female grey warden to die fighting the darkspoons in the Deep Roads, so I don't think they become the mothers.

[Aimi]

I think it's been established that Grey Wardens are basically immune to the broodmothering process, and just become highly-intelligent ghouls. The darkspawn don't seem inclined to take even the female Grey Wardens prisoner, so ...

After Origins came out, somebody asked Gaider the question in the OP (albeit with slightly different wording). He admitted that the writing team hadn't even thought of that, and eventually they crafted the explanation given here: that Wardens can't become broodmothers, because magic reasons. As an explanation, it's fine, but the fact that they hadn't thought about it when writing their eldritch rape horror story is disappointing.

[Qun00]

After Here lies the Abysm you can send one female grey warden to die fighting the darkspoons in the Deep Roads, so I don't think they become the mothers.

Darkspoons? Is it what the darkspawn use to force feed a female victim?

[MzChaos]

It has been mentioned in DA:O that no Grey Warden has ever been known to have had a child, which makes a person wonder just when in her life Fiona became a Grey Warden

 

Perhaps that is the reason why there is no concern that a female GW can become a broodmother.  

 

Which also raises that question (for me at least) as to how and who impregnates the broodmother?  Darkspawn Drones?

[Heimdall]

It has been mentioned in DA:O that no Grey Warden has ever been known to have had a child, which makes a person wonder just when in her life Fiona became a Grey Warden

Perhaps that is the reason why there is no concern that a female GW can become a broodmother.

Which also raises that question (for me at least) as to how and who impregnates the broodmother? Darkspawn Drones?

Gaider said that Grey Wardens aren't completely sterile, they can have children with non-wardens with difficulty. Two wardens make it next to impossible though.

Going by Hespith's poem, I always assumed there was some kind of ritual gang rape involved.

Though of my theory about the emissary retcon is true, then maybe some sort of blight magic is responsible.

[Arshei]

Darkspoons? Is it what the darkspawn use to force feed a female victim?

 

You never fought Darkspoons?, did you even played Dragon Age?

[Abyss108]

Well the reason is because nobody knew about Broodmothers until after Origins. It's possible they might change the rules now (they probably should), or maybe they already have by this point and there just hasn't been any reason to mention it in the games so far.

[Aren]

I think it's been established that Grey Wardens are basically immune to the broodmothering process, and just become highly-intelligent ghouls. The darkspawn don't seem inclined to take even the female Grey Wardens prisoner, so ...

That's not true GW are not immune to broodmothering.

DG in interview said while grey wardens knew about Broodmothers they didn't know how they were produced until after first game. Also seems he was interested in future idea of female warden being refused to ler her go on her calling because of that.

Any organization or set of characters that aren't directed tied to your character and your inner circle of friends will always be made out to look clueless and incompetant. Its how it goes in these games. And people are more than happy to go right along with this.
And it leads to the very problem we have been discussing - that if you pull this kind of stunt, it leaves people who by the established lore should have known something, looking like complete and utter fools at best, self aggrandizing frauds at worst.

Well the reason is because nobody knew about Broodmothers until after Origins. It's possible they might change the rules now (they probably should), or maybe they already have by this point and there just hasn't been any reason to mention it in the games so far.

Bioware always make experts look like complete fools in their games, because they need big reveals that only the character knows etc etc. The Grey Wardens not knowing much about the Broodmothers is just one example.
Being an expert in Bioware games is as simple as saying you are and hoping that nobody will correct you. Very few experts actually back up their reputations with their knowledge and actions. The truth is as many will have said, that experts know only as much as is convenient for the plot to have them know.
Basically, its a wonder that things like this work at all over time, as writers come and go. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

[In Exile]

Gaider said that Grey Wardens aren't completely sterile, they can have children with non-wardens with difficulty. Two wardens make it next to impossible though.

Going by Hespith's poem, I always assumed there was some kind of ritual gang rape involved.

Though of my theory about the emissary retcon is true, then maybe some sort of blight magic is responsible.

What retcon?

[Andraste_Reborn]

That's not true GW are not immune to broodmothering.

 

Is there any in-game evidence one way or the other? The only women we know anything about from before they were subjected to the process are Laren and Hespith. We don't have any confirmed examples of female Wardens who were turned into Broodmothers.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

After Origins came out, somebody asked Gaider the question in the OP (albeit with slightly different wording). He admitted that the writing team hadn't even thought of that, and eventually they crafted the explanation given here: that Wardens can't become broodmothers, because magic reasons. As an explanation, it's fine, but the fact that they hadn't thought about it when writing their eldritch rape horror story is disappointing.

So it was their own mistake to not account for that...very lame..

[Scuttlebutt101]

I think I saw a post from Gaider somewhere on these forums where he implied that female Wardens don't become Broodmothers due to their infertility, something about it being a bright side to Warden women being barren.

[Aren]

Is there any in-game evidence one way or the other? The only women we know anything about from before they were subjected to the process are Laren and Hespith. We don't have any confirmed examples of female Wardens who were turned into Broodmothers.

Broodmothers are created by infecting female hosts,why GW should be immune to that?

GW are nothing more but tainted people,darkspawns could easily enhance the taint within them to make female GW into broodmothers since the  taint within the GW isn't special it is just mixed with their blood thus make them resistant but by forcing the pollution of their bodies they should become broodmothers slowly like any other race,simply by losing this resistance which is what the process of becoming a broodmother is about.

 

I think I saw a post from Gaider somewhere on these forums where he implied that female Wardens don't become Broodmothers due to their infertility, something about it being a bright side to Warden women being barren.

Expect that female GW aren't barren,they are if they try to conceive with another GW.

Plus i doubt that a Broodmother conceive  the same way other races do.

[AlanC9]

Scuttlebutt101 raises a good point. The whole point of making a Broodmother is the mothering thing.

Aren, you're not quite correct there -- GWs have greatly reduced fertility. There's no particular reason to think that making a GW into a Broodmother would fix this. OTOH, it conceivably might.

Note that at the age a GW would typically reach her Calling she probably wouldn't be all that fertile even without being a GW.

[Aren]

Scuttlebutt101 raises a good point. The whole point of making a Broodmother is the mothering thing.

Aren, you're not quite correct there -- GWs have greatly reduced fertility. There's no particular reason to think that making a GW into a Broodmother would fix this. OTOH, it conceivably might.

Note that at the age a GW would typically reach her Calling she probably wouldn't be all that fertile even without being a GW.

If GW lose their fertility it is due to the fact that the taint poisonous effects decrease their fertility,however when it comes to broodmothers things are slightly different.

Broodmothers are created by infecting on purpose females with the taint(so probably even these females who are akin to become broodmothers lose their fertility),so it is not even a problem of being barren in the conventional sense because the kind of reproduction of a broodmother is completely different than the one of any other races.

[Steelcan]

but think of the fanart potential!

 

*recoils in horror as he thinks of the fanart potential*

[TheKomandorShepard]

Any organization or set of characters that aren't directed tied to your character and your inner circle of friends will always be made out to look clueless and incompetant. Its how it goes in these games. And people are more than happy to go right along with this.
And it leads to the very problem we have been discussing - that if you pull this kind of stunt, it leaves people who by the established lore should have known something, looking like complete and utter fools at best, self aggrandizing frauds at worst.


Bioware always make experts look like complete fools in their games, because they need big reveals that only the character knows etc etc. The Grey Wardens not knowing much about the Broodmothers is just one example.
Being an expert in Bioware games is as simple as saying you are and hoping that nobody will correct you. Very few experts actually back up their reputations with their knowledge and actions. The truth is as many will have said, that experts know only as much as is convenient for the plot to have them know.
Basically, its a wonder that things like this work at all over time, as writers come and go. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

 

I pretty much agree with you bioware often tries to paint character as competent X but fails at it (that includes main characters as well) , Divine Justinia supposed master of the game pretty much turned to be old foolish lady that had no idea what she was doing and was out-played by a seeker. Leliana while she had her moment narrative tried to sell her as great spymaster despite she did a nice amount of elementary mistakes, Grey wardens are painted as one of the best warriors but every time they get utterly destroyed by their opponent including by darkspawn and list goes on.

[myahele]

I always thought that female grey wardens would make great broodmothers since they already have the taint with them; heck, some even have archdemon blood.

 

If anything, they make it so that Broodmother's taint don't advance so far as to cause infertility ...? They do go under a special process, afterall: specialized ghouls.

 

Maybe Darkspawn semen plays a role?

[Qun00]

but think of the fanart potential!
 
*recoils in horror as he thinks of the fanart potential*

Say no more.