82 réponses à ce sujet

[The Baconer]

The formula for Gaatlok (gunpowder) is one of the Qunari's most well-guarded secrets. In Dragon Age 2, the Arishok states that, if the formula were at risk, they would be obligated by the Qun to defend it to the last man. It is easy to see why the Qunari would defend it so ferociously: it is the key to their unmatched naval prowess, and it also allows them to level most fortifications on land with minimal effort. 

 

However, at the end of Trespasser, there is great potential for a turning point. As part of the Qunari's plot to throw southern Thedas into disarray, barrels of Gaatlok were arranged in various locations around Ferelden, Orlais, and the Free Marches. In addition, the Inquisitor will come across this note at the Darvaarad:

 

For primers, combine NO MORE THAN ONE PART Ataashi venom with an equal amount of deathroot auxin and THREE PARTS powdered silverite. [...]

 

Regarding historical firearms and cannons, the primer (or priming powder) was generally of the same composition as the primary charge (the powder that ignites and propels the bullet), but of a finer granulation. So... our Inquisitor just might have solved the Gaatlok mystery for the rest of Thedas, or at least part of it. The most critical element here is finding the material that the Ataashi venom is substituting. With the major powers of Thedas receiving surprise gifts of Gaatlok, and with these notes on primer composition, the monarchies are now free to experiment methods of formulating blasting powder. 

 

Also, back in Dragon Age 2, Anders asks Hawke to gather materials in order to make a "potion", which would later turn out to be a high-yield magical explosive. Two of the materials are "Sela Petrae" and Drakestone, a strong reference to saltpeter and sulfur, two of the primary ingredients for black powder. Perhaps we already had half the recipe, with Trespasser giving us the final components. 

 

In any event, the implications for Thedas should be enormous. I hope future installments do not gloss over this in order to enforce a conventional high-fantasy stasis. 

[Addictress]

I always wondered, if the Qunari developed gun powder, shouldn't they be advancing in other respects also? If they have a penchant for science, I would assume an industrial revolution and further advances in tech are nigh. Yet they remain locked in one century.

Admittedly, I'm glad, because the appeal of this world is that mix of medieval fantasy and a tinge of steampunk, and anything more advanced would ruin the feeling.

[Addictress]

I guess I DO want them to enforce the high fantasy stasis. It's why we escape to this world in the first place.

Once they advance, it becomes another world entirely.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Oh, come on you should learn by now that doing smart thing in Thedas is as common as unicorns. I mean we deal with people who find best way to deal with psycho mage trying blow up world is to start party and ignore him.

[In Exile]

The formula for Gaatlok (gunpowder) is one of the Qunari's most well-guarded secrets. In Dragon Age 2, the Arishok states that, if the formula were at risk, they would be obligated by the Qun to defend it to the last man. It is easy to see why the Qunari would defend it so ferociously: it is the key to their unmatched naval prowess, and it also allows them to level most fortifications on land with minimal effort.

However, at the end of Trespasser, there is great potential for a turning point. As part of the Qunari's plot to throw southern Thedas into disarray, barrels of Gaatlok were arranged in various locations around Ferelden, Orlais, and the Free Marches. In addition, the Inquisitor will come across this note at the Darvaarad:

For primers, combine NO MORE THAN ONE PART Ataashi venom with an equal amount of deathroot auxin and THREE PARTS powdered silverite. [...]

Regarding historical firearms and cannons, the primer (or priming powder) was generally of the same composition as the primary charge (the powder that ignites and propels the bullet), but of a finer granulation. So... our Inquisitor just might have solved the Gaatlok mystery for the rest of Thedas, or at least part of it. The most critical element here is finding the material that the Ataashi venom is substituting. With the major powers of Thedas receiving surprise gifts of Gaatlok, and with these notes on primer composition, the monarchies are now free to experiment methods of formulating blasting powder.

Also, back in Dragon Age 2, Anders asks Hawke to gather materials in order to make a "potion", which would later turn out to be a high-yield magical explosive. Two of the materials are "Sela Petrae" and Drakestone, a strong reference to saltpeter and sulfur, two of the primary ingredients for black powder. Perhaps we already had half the recipe, with Trespasser giving us the final components.

In any event, the implications for Thedas should be enormous. I hope future installments do not gloss over this in order to enforce a conventional high-fantasy stasis.

I'm sure anyone will make the leap. To appreciate the information you have to understand gunpowder but no one in Thedas has that knowledge.

A better question is why no Tal-vasoth ever leaked it.

[The Baconer]

I always wondered, if the Qunari developed gun powder, shouldn't they be advancing in other respects also? If they have a penchant for science, I would assume an industrial revolution and further advances in tech are nigh. Yet they remain locked in one century.

 

Maybe they are. We don't really have the necessary exposure to Qunari society to say for sure, but I imagine they would have some technology a little more advanced than everyone else (except the dwarves). For example, their Lyrium operation would have required a system that catches the rocks blown apart by Gaatlok, separates the raw Lyrium from regular stone, and then prepares it for processing, all without risking contact and Lyrium sickness. 

 

Still, the dwarves have given us magic holograms and Bianca, the most unabashedly "candlepunk" piece of hardware in the series. 

 

 

I'm sure anyone will make the leap. To appreciate the information you have to understand gunpowder but no one in Thedas has that knowledge.

A better question is why no Tal-vasoth ever leaked it.

 

My guess it would be (or at least the most-likely given excuse would be) that the large majority of Tal-Vashoth able to escape Qunari society are ex-Antaam. So even if they know how to use it, they probably don't know how to make it. 

[Witch Cocktor]

I am so ready for a grenadier class! Or, a grenadier specialization for rogues.

I love throwing explosives!

[myahele]

I think the Qun dictates which technology they can and can't use. So probably if a Qunari researcher was able to make a technological breakthrough, it'll still have to be reviewed the the Qun clerics to see if that tech follows the ways of the Qun.

 

It might explain why, despite being more advanced, they seem like they haven't made any significant advances 

 

Otherwise since the Qun have roles for everything, there might be a "gaatlok" maker and only s/he knows the exact ingredients. 

[GoldenGail3]

Pfft never. It's the Qunari after all.

[Dabrikishaw]

Goddamn, this is a good find. With the next game dealing with the new Tevinter/Qunari War, we might get to put the pieces together ourselves.

[KaiserShep]

I've always wished to see gaatlock developed by someone else then strike the heart of the Qun with it.

[almasy87]

I've always wished to see gaatlock developed by someone else then strike the heart of the Qun with it.

Oh yeah... boom! To hell with those Qunaris

[Ashagar]

I always wondered, if the Qunari developed gun powder, shouldn't they be advancing in other respects also? If they have a penchant for science, I would assume an industrial revolution and further advances in tech are nigh. Yet they remain locked in one century.

Admittedly, I'm glad, because the appeal of this world is that mix of medieval fantasy and a tinge of steampunk, and anything more advanced would ruin the feeling.

 

From what I gathered they arrived with the technology and used it to pretty much shock and awe the locals until the locals got their act together and counterattacked with a organized magical assault driving the qunari out of every land except for a city in Riva and the islands they seized from Tevinter. There's doesn't seem to be any evidence of them advancing their technology but there is a lot of evidence of them trying to keep the locals from advancing and catching up with them by sending death squads after any thadaisan inventor they think might give the locals an advantage.

 

That dwarf inventor from awakening with the advanced explosives, he's in hiding or dead because of qunari death squads trying to to eliminate him and his invention.

[Dai Grepher]

Nah, I would be more interested in hunting down Dworkin the Mad's recipe for high explosives. The Qunari forced him into hiding because they feared him. Fight bombs with bigger bombs.

 

Baconer, I think you already know the answer to the question of if they will carry the gaatlock discovery over into the next game. Of course they won't. The whole plot with the Qunari attacking was nothing but "toe-in-the-water" experimentation. Here's your massive war with the entire Qunari nation! Ha ha, just kidding, everything is back to normal.

 

They will say that the instructions in the Darvaarad were lacking the initial components, and that this recipe was only for the quick version of gaatlok which used dragon venom, not the homebrew. Hence my interest in Dworkin's recipe.

[KaiserShep]

They could always use Anders' formula. That seemed to work pretty well at getting rid of Elthina and a lot of Kirkwall's Hightown. I'd love to see the Darvaarad disappear into a swirling vortex of doom. 

[Ashagar]

They could always use Anders' formula. That seemed to work pretty well at getting rid of Elthina and a lot of Kirkwall's Hightown. I'd love to see the Darvaarad disappear into a swirling vortex of doom. 

 

Ah yes the explosion that also set fires all over Kirkwall and killed countless people. I will give Anders that, he may have been a insane monster but he sure knew how to start things off with a bang.

[Al Foley]

So in other words what you are saying is that the Qunari are introducing serpents into the Garden of Eden?  (Subtle ST reference is Subtle).  

 

But I would love to see Firearms introduced into Dragon Age.  Or any high fantasy setting to do so in the first place.  Talk about revolutionary.  And since Thedas is mirroing medeval history pretty closely I would not be the least bit surprised that it is coming. 

[Typhrus]

The problems with fire arms is that they'd be soo slow and unwieldy that I don't think a player character could really use them. This also doesn't take into account how inaccurate early fire arms were as well. In terms of actual gun powder weapons being used in Thedas that has no origin with Qunari would be early cannons. Even then, they'd probably be exceptionally rare and prone to horrible misfires. So while, yes, if Bioware decides to go down the route of gun powder weapons becoming slightly more common place in Thedas I can see early cannons about, but nothing resembling muskets or the like.

It's actually be interesting to get a closer look at the Qunari cannons on their Dreadnoughts. Sure, Inquisition had one with Iron Bull's loyalty mission, but the effects present just looked like it used flaming rocks from a catapult or trebuchet, nor did we actually get a close look at the ship either.

[Al Foley]

The problems with fire arms is that they'd be soo slow and unwieldy that I don't think a player character could really use them. This also doesn't take into account how inaccurate early fire arms were as well. In terms of actual gun powder weapons being used in Thedas that has no origin with Qunari would be early cannons. Even then, they'd probably be exceptionally rare and prone to horrible misfires. So while, yes, if Bioware decides to go down the route of gun powder weapons becoming slightly more common place in Thedas I can see early cannons about, but nothing resembling muskets or the like.

It's actually be interesting to get a closer look at the Qunari cannons on their Dreadnoughts. Sure, Inquisition had one with Iron Bull's loyalty mission, but the effects present just looked like it used flaming rocks from a catapult or trebuchet, nor did we actually get a close look at the ship either.

Exactly.  This is something the PC character would not have access to.  At least not in DA 4.  It would only be avaialble to the Qunari.  the rest of Thedas would have access to more traditional weapons. 

[The Baconer]

It's actually be interesting to get a closer look at the Qunari cannons on their Dreadnoughts. Sure, Inquisition had one with Iron Bull's loyalty mission, but the effects present just looked like it used flaming rocks from a catapult or trebuchet, nor did we actually get a close look at the ship either.

 

With the arc of the Dreadnought's cannon fire, it seems like it could be designed like an early bomb vessel, utilizing mortars on the deck instead of firing broadside. 

 

 

Of course, the Dreadnoughts that were in the comics appeared to be firing broadside, so it's probably just a shortcut for the cutscene. Unless Dreadnoughts can be built with different specs... nah, it's probably just a shortcut. 

[Beomer]

It's already out because IIRC the dwarf builder in Awakening could build powder explosives and the Qunari were actually hunting him for it.

[Addictress]

They could always use Anders' formula. That seemed to work pretty well at getting rid of Elthina and a lot of Kirkwall's Hightown. I'd love to see the Darvaarad disappear into a swirling vortex of doom.

I think he used an ancient Tevinter recipe right?

[Ashagar]

The problems with fire arms is that they'd be soo slow and unwieldy that I don't think a player character could really use them. This also doesn't take into account how inaccurate early fire arms were as well. In terms of actual gun powder weapons being used in Thedas that has no origin with Qunari would be early cannons. Even then, they'd probably be exceptionally rare and prone to horrible misfires. So while, yes, if Bioware decides to go down the route of gun powder weapons becoming slightly more common place in Thedas I can see early cannons about, but nothing resembling muskets or the like.

It's actually be interesting to get a closer look at the Qunari cannons on their Dreadnoughts. Sure, Inquisition had one with Iron Bull's loyalty mission, but the effects present just looked like it used flaming rocks from a catapult or trebuchet, nor did we actually get a close look at the ship either.

 

Indeed people often don't realize firearms came onto the scene in the high middle ages and existed for centuries without being a serious threat to either castles or armor. Even during the early part of the  early modern period when armor was on its way out the sort of firearms that could punch a hole in armor was a heavy and specialized four foot long gun called a musket that required a gun-rest to fire(musket was originally was a specialized term not a catch all term) and was even slower to load and required that they had to be protected, unusually by halberders because they were extremely vulnerable. Musketeers were elites that received double pay from regular solders, something only the great sword welders used to disrupt pike formations got.

[Dai Grepher]

The lyrium machineguns are more likely to appear than firearms are. I would say be on the lookout for those.

[The Baconer]

It's already out because IIRC the dwarf builder in Awakening could build powder explosives and the Qunari were actually hunting him for it.

 

Well, it can't be out if he's unable to share his knowledge with the world, since he was forced into hiding.