82 réponses à ce sujet

[Mistic]

As I had noted gunpowder came onto the scene in Europe in the 13th century and didn't magically make castles, knights and armor obsolete by existing but instead existed along side all of them for centuries.

 

Yes, but the Qunari already have useful cannons. The codex entry on Qunari dreadnoughts and Iron Bull's mission show that, at least, they are used effectively in naval warfare. The problem with gunpowder in real-life was that firearms and cannons had to be invented from scratch, and that was a painfully long process of trial and error. Whoever discovers the secret of gaatlok won't have to go through the same.

 

I think the current situation in Thedas is between Feudal Europe discovering Chinese gunpowder and Feudal Japan discovering European firearms. In the first case, it took centuries to develop viable weapons. In the second case, the change happened in a matter of decades.

[Illegitimus]

If the Qunari attacks Orzamar, all other nations in Thedas will declare war on them. Lyrium it´s too important. And the dwarves are more difficult to infiltrate, i think. 

The formula for Gaatlok it´s not discover yet only for gameplay reasons. The Qunari will eventually be defeated if the other nations aquire that formula. 

 

Gaatlock isn't that important, at least not as it is being applied to date.  It gives the Qunari a major advantage in aquatic warfare and that's about it.   The Qunaari haven't invented muskets, and given how much better archers and their tools are than reality in Thedas, nobody might ever.  

[Dai Grepher]

Because they would likely have better luck trying take on the Kossith on to regain their original homeland or declaring total war on every country on the continent than invading the deep roads that are filled with the nice unending hordes of corruption and mindless evil that are the darkspwawn?

 

The Darkspawn are currently digging for the old gods. And the Qunari could keep them at bay easily using their technology.
 

[Dai Grepher]

No, we're not going to pretend that location is not a factor in logistics. 

 

 

 

No, we're not going to feign ignorance of the Darkspawn issue. 

 

 

 

Yeah, and the Kocari Wilds? Why haven't they invaded the Kocari Wilds? They should do that tomorrow. 

 

 

 

Because taking the Deep Roads is not actually an easier way of invading other countries. It is, emphatically, more difficult. 

 

So then you agree that Dragon's Breath was not sanctioned by the Triumvirate because of the southern countries' location relative to Par Vollen?

 

The Darkspawn aren't an army unless an archdemon is leading them.

 

Because there is hardly anyone out there.

 

More difficult than what, invading directly and being beaten back like they were last time?
 

[Dai Grepher]

So, are you really telling me that it's difficult for Tevinter to fall despite being in open war with Par Vollen, and having a good deal of slaves actively conspiring to overthrow the Magisters, yet for the same reason it's easy for Orzammar to fall despite being on the other side of the continent and having a stable regime that has endured more than any other current Thedosian society?

 

Not to mention that Orzammar is a close friend of practically every Andrastian nation in the world, from Tevinter to Orlais. Tevinter always had the drawback of being hated by the other Andrastian nations, but Orzammar is, at least, a good trade partner and the only source of lyrium. You bet Orlais or Ferelden will help Orzammar against Qunari trying to cut them off from the lyrium trade.

 

And remember that casteless aren't exactly ignored. They are marked for life, they are barred from performing most jobs (including that of servants), and from time to time (as seen in DA:O) the rulers tend to crack down on the criminal elements to earn some popularity points when they get cocky.

 

 

Those are more sensible suggestions, if only because it doesn't expect the Carta to be the spearhead of a revolutionary movement by their own volition.

 

And don't sell criminals too short. Remember that one of the main actors in the Qunari Wars was the confederation of pirates known as the Felicisima Armada, who banded together for the first time precisely to stop the Qunari from destroying their piracy business.

 

 

Yes, because Tevinter is totalitarian and in control of their slaves. Orzammar is not. And while it may have endured longer, it is also due for collapse. It is on its last legs. The dwarven population is decreasing all the time. Tevinter's population is still strong. Also, Tevinter slaves do not want to overthrow the magisters at the cost of their own goal for freedom. They won't side with the Qunari.

 

Which is why I presented this as an infiltration operation, not an open invasion.

 

I haven't forgotten. These conditions would only serve to drive those dwarves to the Qun.

 

Thanks.

 

Fair enough. Not saying this would definately succeed, but its the only way I see the Qunari taking the dwarven kingdoms at all. Granted, Bhelen being King could throw all of this off completely.

[The Baconer]

So then you agree that Dragon's Breath was not sanctioned by the Triumvirate because of the southern countries' location relative to Par Vollen?

 

A rather clumsy attempt to force the Dragon's Breath issue into the thread. At least pretend this latest spew of nonsense is somewhat related to the original topic. 

 

 

More difficult than what, invading directly and being beaten back like they were last time?

 

Yes. It's effectively trying to accomplish the same thing, from an even weaker starting point. 

 

Now talk about Gaatlok, or take a hike. 

[Dai Grepher]

A rather clumsy attempt to force the Dragon's Breath issue into the thread. At least pretend this latest spew of nonsense is somewhat related to the original topic. 

 

Yes. It's effectively trying to accomplish the same thing, from an even weaker starting point. 

 

Now talk about Gaatlok, or take a hike. 

 

Just pointing out your double-standard.

 

How so? The dwarves are few in number compared to the human nations.

 

Take a hike? What a rude thing to post. But as to your demand that I discuss gaatlok, no the recipe won't be known to the humans in the next game. The note we find in the Darvaarad is only for the primers, not for the gaatlok. At best, the gaatlok barrels spread around southern Thedas are of the quick formula, which required dragon venom. And that's if the alchemists could even study the material in those barrels and break down their chemical structures. Even then, you'd still need the manufacturing process to know how to create it.

 

So as I wrote before, that's a Sten sized "no" on the gaatlok. Better to just search for Dworkin's formula.

[The Baconer]

How so? The dwarves are few in number compared to the human nations.

 

I shouldn't have to hold your hand and explain it to you, but fine. Take a look at where Orzammar is on the map. Now, before the Qunari can even begin to seize the city or secure the surrounding Deep Roads, they have to get there. Infiltration or no, they'll need a sizable force to subjugate the Dwarves in an orderly fashion, and to set about retaking Thaigs.

 

Once someone spots this sizable force, or once Orzammar alerts her allies of the attack, the Qunari will once again be at war with everyone at the same time, except now the army they've committed to the plan is beyond the reach of any timely resupply or reinforcement. The entire point of this hypothetical plan (to not have to fight all of southern Thedas on their terms) is defeated in its application. 

 

But, sure, it's effectively the same as the liquidation of the major noble houses and using quasi-teleportation devices. It's the same thing!

 

 

Take a hike? What a rude thing to post. But as to your demand that I discuss gaatlok, no the recipe won't be known to the humans in the next game. The note we find in the Darvaarad is only for the primers, not for the gaatlok. At best, the gaatlok barrels spread around southern Thedas are of the quick formula, which required dragon venom. And that's if the alchemists could even study the material in those barrels and break down their chemical structures. Even then, you'd still need the manufacturing process to know how create it.

 

That's better.