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[Abyss108]

 
I don't know about Josephine, but both Cassandra and Morrigan were revised slightly from their original appearance, shown in E3. Their looks were refined. However, I'm wary of going along with the idea that it was fan complaints that prompted the changes. The game was still in development, so I think it's rather presumptuous to say that negative feedback was the sole deciding factor in any appearance changes.

 

Yeah, same. All characters have their looks changed throughout development, you can see this for plenty of other characters. It's not because people complained they weren't hot enough. I remember how much Alistair changed from his early appearance, and no one had complained about how he looked (well, I'm sure someone, somewhere did, but it certainly wasn't a common thought).

[MiyuEmi]

@nightscrawl  I see your point.  I suppose it's just that all the male gamers I know who have played a DA or ME game, actually have an issue having male-male relationships simply because it makes them personally uncomfortable because they're not gay and they'll always play as the same type of character (he-man, big weapon etc).  Almost as though they think that if they play the game that way, it makes them that way and yes, sadly all of my gamer friends are old enough to know better!  I suppose that also means that all of my gamer friends are armchair quarterbacks!

 

Seriously though, it doesn't bother me at all.  I will only romance characters I like regardless of my character's gender.  I made the mistake in DAO of romancing Leliana and...I think that experience lends my disdain generally for her character!

[MiyuEmi]

@Abyss108  I remember I laughed hysterically when I saw Alistair in DA:2.  Oh that was painful.  I've altered my world state for my current playthrough so he will be my Warden, so hopefully, at the very least, he doesn't look like he got head stretched.

[nightscrawl]

Seriously though, it doesn't bother me at all.  I will only romance characters I like regardless of my character's gender.  I made the mistake in DAO of romancing Leliana and...I think that experience lends my disdain generally for her character!

This is a bit off topic, but how did it change your opinion of her?

(I like the hard ass Leliana in DAI myself.)

[Battlebloodmage]

This is a bit off topic, but how did it change your opinion of her?

(I like the hard ass Leliana in DAI myself.)

In DAO, after killing her former lover, tell her to enjoy it. 

 

In DAI, any practical option throughout the game with her would result in hardened Lelianna like telling her to kill the spies or not to feel bad about sacrificing people at the tower. 

[MiyuEmi]

@nightscrawl  Waking up with her sitting over me...creepy.  She was, childishly romantic and I suppose I didn't like that.  If she was romantic, I love that, but what was the comment she makes about your eyelids?  Butterflies?  It was just a little off-putting to me!

[Abyss108]

@Abyss108  I remember I laughed hysterically when I saw Alistair in DA:2.  Oh that was painful.  I've altered my world state for my current playthrough so he will be my Warden, so hopefully, at the very least, he doesn't look like he got head stretched.

 

haha, I hadn't even thought of that, that was terrible! I meant how he had appeared in early DA:O trailers! I remember Alistair appearing in a trailer with Hawke for DA:I as well, and everyone was going "OMG Hawke?!?", but nobody even seemed to realised the other guy was Alistair!

[AlanC9]

I pointed out to a friend of mine who also plays DA:I that while Solas prefers female elves only, that same option is not given to a male elf Inquisitor. There is only one elf to romance and she isn't into males. Dwarves and Black human males and females have it just as bad. I realize that to satisfy everyone would be a tall order to fill, but they could try.

Bio's process makes this a little difficult. IIRC the devs have said that they write the characters first, and then see which ones would be good for LIs.

[Addictress]

Jesus christ... How about living in a world where theres room for everyone? Both the Isabela's and the Cassandra's. In other words grow the **** up.

[MiyuEmi]

@Abyss108   OH!  He looked hot in the trailer in my opinion, working his Templar ways.  Sten also looked pretty cool and then disappointment!  Yeah, I completely agree with you, they all looked wildly different from the trailer to the game itself.  Suppose they weren't yet at the stage where in-game graphics were capable of reaching the same level as cutscene or CGI shorts.

[MiyuEmi]

@MzChaos  Well, remember that initially Sera would have been the only elf capable of romance. Solas was brought in as a romance option only later (as was Cullen).  You've never been able to romance a dwarf, but I'm fairly certain that all companions, save for those race-gated (Cassandra, Cullen, Solas), will take a dwarf player as a romance option.

[AlanC9]

They should have made Josephine prettier in the original game (Her face was pointlessly harsh looking, I'm guessing for SJWs?)

SJWs? Are you trying to sound silly?

This whole post wasn't really responsive to the question it was supposedly a response to. That's maybe my fault since I didn't make the premise explicit. I thought most of us were aware that the original plan was 2-2-2 -- two straight LIs (Blackwall and Cassandra), two bisexual LIs (Iron Bull and Josephine), two gay LIs (Dorian and Sera). Perfectly balanced. Whether you like the options is a different question

During the extension they found enough time to add Solas and Cullen. Not much time; Cullen's race-gated for no reason besides not having enough time to do animations and camera angles for qunari and dwarf PCs. (IIRC he would have been human-only if one of the devs hadn't put in his own time to make elves work too.) That's when the imbalance came in.

[AlanC9]

You've never been able to romance a dwarf, but I'm fairly certain that all companions, save for those race-gated (Cassandra, Cullen, Solas), will take a dwarf player as a romance option.

Are you sure Cassandra's race-gated?

[vbibbi]

Bio's process makes this a little difficult. IIRC the devs have said that they write the characters first, and then see which ones would be good for LIs.

I can't locate the original character sketch Bio released prior to the game, but I remember Solas' mentioning something about being open minded and more about the personality and less about the physical. This was before the romances were even announced. From that early look, I thought that if Solas were to be romanceable, it would be by both sexes.

 

I'm not sure if this was me reading too much into it or if the m/m portion was scrapped for time. People found sound clips with a male!Inquisitor flirting with Solas, which did not ship in the final game.

[nightscrawl]

Are you sure Cassandra's race-gated?

To my knowledge, Solas and Cullen are the only race gated LIs.

[MiyuEmi]

@Alanc9 - You're right, she's romancable by any male!  Thought she was a race gated one!

[AlanC9]

I'm not sure if this was me reading too much into it or if the m/m portion was scrapped for time. People found sound clips with a male!Inquisitor flirting with Solas, which did not ship in the final game.

Given the known time constraints on Cullen's romance, I'd bet time.

[Abyss108]

 

I can't locate the original character sketch Bio released prior to the game, but I remember Solas' mentioning something about being open minded and more about the personality and less about the physical. This was before the romances were even announced. From that early look, I thought that if Solas were to be romanceable, it would be by both sexes.

 

I'm not sure if this was me reading too much into it or if the m/m portion was scrapped for time. People found sound clips with a male!Inquisitor flirting with Solas, which did not ship in the final game.

 

Weekes' has tweeted that the reason Solas is female-only is because in the past they have got a lot of complaints about falling into a "depraved bisexual" trope. What with Solas being who he is, Weeke's wanted to avoid making the antagonist bisexual. This part wasn't cut for time/money.

 

The race gating may or may not be due to time/funds. It was squeezed in at the end, and they definitely didn't have enough resources to do it for every race. But considering every single scene is talking about things that specifically relate to being an Elf, I suspect it may have been a design decision as well. Whist you could in theory rewrite every scene for each race, you're not going to get any revelations like the Valaslin one for other races, which makes me think that a romance with a different race would feel "inferior". I'd much prefer to know from the start that I can't romance him, rather than play the wrong race and get a subpar experience.

[nightscrawl]

... rather than play the wrong race and get a subpar experience.

I think this is the wrong way to look at it, honestly.

This is a rather poor comparison, but I can't think of another one at the moment. We know from various remarks that Dorian likes a more burly type of guy, but that doesn't mean that he can't also have an attraction to, and fall in love with, an elf. While I do agree that a non-elf romance for Solas would seem lacking given the amount of elfy content, I don't necessarily think it's a "wrong" choice either.

 

But that is neither here nor there. Considering his views, Solas really shouldn't have fallen in love with an elf PC anyway, since he considers everyone inferior. But he did because the PC magically swayed his view with her awesomeness. That doesn't mean that he still doesn't consider her, as a modern elf, inferior. To me, that is a horrendous basis for a relationship, and considering the "he watches the PC in her dreams" thing, it's bordering on obsession akin to Anders.

 

(That's just my take on it, of course, and I don't offer it as a challenge to Solas-mancers who see it otherwise.)

[MzChaos]

@MzChaos  Well, remember that initially Sera would have been the only elf capable of romance. Solas was brought in as a romance option only later (as was Cullen).  You've never been able to romance a dwarf, but I'm fairly certain that all companions, save for those race-gated (Cassandra, Cullen, Solas), will take a dwarf player as a romance option.

Yes, but a dwarf has never had the option of romancing another dwarf.  Oghren, Varric, Harding... all unattainable.

[Abyss108]

I think this is the wrong way to look at it, honestly.

This is a rather poor comparison, but I can't think of another one at the moment. We know from various remarks that Dorian likes a more burly type of guy, but that doesn't mean that he can't also have an attraction to, and fall in love with, an elf. While I do agree that a non-elf romance for Solas would seem lacking given the amount of elfy content, I don't necessarily think it's a "wrong" choice either.

 

But that is neither here nor there. Considering his views, Solas really shouldn't have fallen in love with an elf PC anyway, since he considers everyone inferior. But he did because the PC magically swayed his view with her awesomeness. That doesn't mean that he still doesn't consider her, as a modern elf, inferior. To me, that is a horrendous basis for a relationship, and considering the "he watches the PC in her dreams" thing, it's bordering on obsession akin to Anders.

 

(That's just my take on it, of course, and I don't offer it as a challenge to Solas-mancers who see it otherwise.)

 

Yes but Dorian liking burly men doesn't lead to a revelation that turns the history of burly men on their head. When I say inferior, I don't mean Solas thinks they are inferior (more than he does an Elf), I mean in terms of a game experience. 

 

The story where Solas falls in love with a human and then breaks up with them because of his duty is a perfectly fine story by itself. But it has to compete against the story where Solas falls in love with with an Elf, completely crushes her entire belief system, and physically changes the way her face looks, moments before breaking up with her. One of those has a smaller climax than the other, and I'd be really annoyed if I got the smaller one.

[nightscrawl]

^ Lol, well I did admit it was a poor comparison XD.

[AFA]

The romances for straight men did really bother me, but the choices seemed odd.

 

They really should have had their Leliana 2.0 be a party member, rather than Josie sitting behind a desk, like Zev 2.0 Iron Bull.

 

My big gripe was that there is no woman that accupies the other side of the axis from Cas. No Morrigan to her Leliana. Even if you promoted Viv to LI, she is just a more conservative version of Cassandra, and would require players to fit an even more narrow field. 

 

Cassandra is sexy as hell (even if she was compatible with my character), but it does strike me odd that they chose to make the obvious love interest for men a scar-faced amazon with short hair in her 40s. Women got Blackwall, which I assume is just as weird for them.

 

The design choice to go for High Fantasy, while having more realistic looking characters was kind of weird, especially since they were Dark Fantasy with conventionally attractive men and women everywhere in the previous two games. 

[vbibbi]

 

 

 

Weekes' has tweeted that the reason Solas is female-only is because in the past they have got a lot of complaints about falling into a "depraved bisexual" trope. What with Solas being who he is, Weeke's wanted to avoid making the antagonist bisexual. This part wasn't cut for time/money.

 

The race gating may or may not be due to time/funds. It was squeezed in at the end, and they definitely didn't have enough resources to do it for every race. But considering every single scene is talking about things that specifically relate to being an Elf, I suspect it may have been a design decision as well. Whist you could in theory rewrite every scene for each race, you're not going to get any revelations like the Valaslin one for other races, which makes me think that a romance with a different race would feel "inferior". I'd much prefer to know from the start that I can't romance him, rather than play the wrong race and get a subpar experience.

 

I had not heard this before. It makes a sort of sense, but is also odd since I feel Iron Bull fits the "depraved bisexual(/pansexual)" trope much more easily than Solas.

 

The romances for straight men did really bother me, but the choices seemed odd.

 

They really should have had their Leliana 2.0 be a party member, rather than Josie sitting behind a desk, like Zev 2.0 Iron Bull.

 

My big gripe was that there is no woman that accupies the other side of the axis from Cas. No Morrigan to her Leliana. Even if you promoted Viv to LI, she is just a more conservative version of Cassandra, and would require players to fit an even more narrow field. 

 

Cassandra is sexy as hell (even if she was compatible with my character), but it does strike me odd that they chose to make the obvious love interest for men a scar-faced amazon with short hair in her 40s. Women got Blackwall, which I assume is just as weird for them.

 

The design choice to go for High Fantasy, while having more realistic looking characters was kind of weird, especially since they were Dark Fantasy with conventionally attractive men and women everywhere in the previous two games. 

But is this really that different from other Bio romances? Leliana is the "innocent" female who wants true love. Morrigan is the ice queen who eventually melts and wants true love.

 

Merrill is the innocent who wants true love. Isabela is the hardened rogue who pretends not to want true love. And then reveals that she does.

 

Josephine is the innocent who dreams of courtly romance. Cassandra is the hardened warrior whose gruff exterior conceals her romantic inclinations toward...true love.

 

I'm sensing a pattern.

[MzChaos]

Cassandra is sexy as hell (even if she was compatible with my character), but it does strike me odd that they chose to make the obvious love interest for men a scar-faced amazon with short hair in her 40s.

Not trying to change the subject, but I have been wondering. Correct me on this one if I am wrong.  But didn't the end of DA:2 take place one year before DA:I?

 

I have been trying to imagine what in the world Cassandra has gone through in that year to be so scarred like that.  Varric too for that matter.  They certainly weren't that beaten up the last time I saw them.  (Is it just me or does the scar on Varric's nose look like a bite mark?)