210 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvianus]

^ What's kind of amusing is that after DA2 so many people railed about how all of the LIs were f'd up in some way and they just wanted a normal person. So we get some normal people in DAI and people still complain.

 

The issue for me with Josephine isn't that she is norrmal, it's the whole romance written with her that is totally boring and that make roll the eyes of many. Cheesy lines, cheesy duel, no passion in the relationship, lack of content, too cute, too dysney for a dragon age game. You can have a normal character and have an interesting and spicy content around him.

 

The big issue is the lack of variety actually. Vivienne, the ice queen should have been available, because it's the same between Cassandra and Josephine.. 

[vbibbi]

(Shrugs) I don't really bother much with romance in DA:I. Very poor this time, though I feel like Bioware's track record isn't great on this in any of their games. They just can't seem to get it right, which considering how much focus the fans put on this is somewhat frustrating. Some games are better than others at this I guess, but mostly I've been disappointed with most of the romances in their games (not that they are any worse at it than basically any other game out there though - its a common problem in RPGs).
 
The only one I've sort of settled on during my playthroughs was Josephine (always with a female character, as all my characters in DAI have been female - male Inquisitor just doesn't seem to fit the role IMO). But frankly I agree with the OP (on this anyway), that its pretty boring. The lack of a sex scene doesn't bother me, as they are always awkward and look silly anyway, but its more the fact that she constantly seems to revert back to just being my secretary. It seems like I was constantly having to say 'Er... you remember we're together, right?' because it never felt that way really.
 
As someone who has been hoping for a romance option with a character of more mature years (40 or so) it was deeply irritating that both Cassandra and Vivienne couldn't be romanced (by a female character anyway). Neither could Morrigan or Leliana for reasons I still find utterly unconvincing. So what is some people romance them in earlier games? My characters didn't, so they were single. And the fact that they can be romanced in earlier games somehow meaning that the romance would be exactly the same makes no sense either. Different people react to others in different ways, find other aspects of each others lives and personalities that connect and provide new things for them to bond over.
 
But it wasn't to be, nor were there really many new characters in terms of NPCs, full stop. Of the ones that are there, I would have liked to be able to romance either Minaeve or Helisma. I wouldn't expect much content from such romances (it would hardly be the first game where romances have little content about them), As with the Josephine romance it wouldn't be very involved, but frankly I liked these 2 more than mostly any other characters in the whole game. Obviously any romance concerning a Tranquil would be a difficult one to write (it would necessarily be 1 sided, and you couldn't have your character forcing themselves on the Tranquil - so I see it more as an employer who is simply content to have the object of their affection around. An unrequited love story if you will, and quite in keeping with classic old class barrier stories etc).

For not being able to romance Morrigan or Leliana in DAI, it's a matter of resources. If Bio only has a certain word budget, voice acting and animation budget for romances, they are going to commit to characters who haven't had a romance before. Why risk angering consumers who romanced them in DAO when there are eight viable characters without such a conflict? Plus there could be world states where the Warden had romanced one of them then dumped them, or the Warden romanced them and did the ultimate sacrifice. In these cases, conditional dialogue would need to be included to reflect multiple world states. More word budget and voice acting costs

[Marshal Moriarty]

Budget was not the reason I remember them giving (I accept budgetary constraints as a valid reason, but its not the reason they gave). This notion of angering gamers from the other games was, and I just don't understand it. It seems the height of bizarre, grasping and possessive behaviour to want to disallow people from romancing 'your' partner. If the character was in a relationship in your version of Origins, that's one thing - simply diallow the romance if they are listed in your version of the game as being in a romance). But if the character is single, then I just don't see what anyone has to complain about - why do the opinions of other gamers and their choice of optional romances have any bearing on my (or anyone else's) games?

 

It just doesn't make any sense to me at all. If Morrigan or Leliana were not romanced in Origins, they must therefore stay single forever? They can't even have relationships that don't include the Inquisitor for example? I don't see what anyone has to complain about, if they are paired up with someone else, if they are single at the time. Why shouldn't that happen (or at least be able to happen like... I don't know Cullen and Leliana or something?) Don't get me wrong on this - I'm not particularly interested in romancing either of them in DAI. Its more the principle that has been established here that bewilders me. And I probably wouldn't even have thought much about it, if the actual romances you could engage in were better realized.

 

Like I say, I find the whole system of how romances work to be flawed in Bioware games. 3-4 flirtations, and 1-2 dedicated courting/getting to know you better scenes make for a very shallow and unsatisying romance. As does the almost complete lack of further scenes once the romance begins. They've never done this very well, and DAI is no exception. The only difference is that this time, I also wasn't taken with the LIs in even a general sense. And this is just in the confines of a single game - its even worse when they try to establish continuity of romances across multiple games, constantly seperating (and in some case outright sabotaging) these romances.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I did so because I was suggesting that rather than having added a third female romance they could and should have just given Josie a serious romance that actually fit with the rest of the narrative of the game. But I could see how that possibly got lost somewhere in translation, yeah.

No, they shouldn't have. There are many people who love Josephine's romance, including the people involved in making it, so it should be the way it is since that's what the people who created her wanted to do. 

[Aren]

I have no idea why most women think that Cassandra is one of the best romance in dragon age. ( from what I've seen ) This intrigues me, because her romance is pretty meh. The writting with the romances in DAI isn't particularly brilliant or deep compared to DAO either. Cassandra isn't as attractive as Isabela or Morrigan or Leliana, at least in the eyes of many guys.

Because someone telling you that they love you after killing their mother then giving them a few rocks as a present is a deep romance......
DAI romances are really good without being too heavy slanted in  insanity.

[AlanC9]

If the character was in a relationship in your version of Origins, that's one thing - simply diallow the romance if they are listed in your version of the game as being in a romance).
 

This is workable if you have a lot of romance slots available. Let's say we sub Leliana in for Josie as the bi female. If Leliana's locked out because she's in a relationship with the HoF, a straight male PC's only option is Cassandra. Not ideal.

ME3 already had this problem.

[AlanC9]

I
But is this really that different from other Bio romances? Leliana is the "innocent" female who wants true love. Morrigan is the ice queen who eventually melts and wants true love.
 
Merrill is the innocent who wants true love. Isabela is the hardened rogue who pretends not to want true love. And then reveals that she does.
 
Josephine is the innocent who dreams of courtly romance. Cassandra is the hardened warrior whose gruff exterior conceals her romantic inclinations toward...true love.
 
I'm sensing a pattern.

Goes back to Aerie and Viconia & Jaheira. I suppose Liara and Ashley aren't too far off either. I can't really make Aribeth and Nathyrra fit, though

[actionhero112]

Because someone telling you that they love you after killing their mother then giving them a few rocks as a present is a deep romance......
DAI romances are really good without being too heavy slanted in promiscuity and insanity.

Context is everything here.  Morrigan is thankful for you undergoing a considerable risk to yourself without any hope of a reward. She lives in a world where she believes that everyone is only out for themselves and should only be out for themselves. When you defy that expectation by committing an act of great selflessness. she is initially confused, which is why when you return with the grimoire she is surprised, stammers over her words and ends the conversation quickly. But as she analyzes the feelings that your selfless act arises within her, she realizes what it is, love. This scares her, because her feelings for you contradict her entire world view. It shakes her to her core. She confronts you about these feelings, desperately looking to you to assuage her that there is nothing between you, but instead it just reaffirms what she has been fearing. Reactively, she lashes out and distances herself from you, partly from the guilt of the ritual about to come, and partly due to the fear of becoming so close that she will be unable to leave you.

 

It's a fantastic romance and to reduce to such a simplistic view does it a disservice. 

 

Morrigan evolves within the romance. It compliments and accentuates her character within the story. 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Are men so desperate that they would abandon a decent accepting girl (Josephine) over someone who doesn't like what they stand for (Cassandra's disapprovals) but hey, she reads smut (Swords & Shields) and wants to be pampered like a brat (or courted, as she calls it), so let's romance her !

 

I guess the thirst is genuinely real.

 

From my observation, Josephine > Cassandra. Josephine is younger, prettier, is more accepting of people from other backgrounds, doesn't go around prodding people about their faith, doesn't disagree with you when you do something that you feel is sensible and doesn't ask to be pampered like a brat (instead she gives back to you by taking you out to watch theater and lets you win in gambling).

[AnimalBoy]

Josephine is , prettier

I'll strongly disagree.

[GoldenGail3]

Are men so desperate that they would abandon a decent accepting girl (Josephine) over someone who doesn't like what they stand for (Cassandra's disapprovals) but hey, she reads smut (Swords & Shields) and wants to be pampered like a brat (or courted, as she calls it), so let's romance her !
 
I guess the thirst is genuinely real.
 
From my observation, Josephine > Cassandra. Josephine is younger, prettier, is more accepting of people from other backgrounds, doesn't go around prodding people about their faith, doesn't disagree with you when you do something that you feel is sensible and doesn't ask to be pampered like a brat (instead she gives back to you by taking you out to watch theater and lets you win in gambling).

Cassandras open minded though.... And way, way better then Josie in so many more interesting ways.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Cassandras open minded though.... And way, way better then Josie in so many more interesting ways.

 

Cassandra disapproves

 

1) A human who does not believe in the Maker (Because not believing in / being skeptical about an absentee father figure is a bad thing)

 

2) Granting mages freedom (Yes, let us imprison mages who were manipulated by time magics, but hey, redeeming Templars who blindly follow orders instead of thinking is okay)

 

3) Performing rituals at the Temple of Mythal (Because performing rituals so as to not anger the inhabitants in the temple is not okay)

 

4) Taking the mountain route over direct confrontation (Because rushing into battle with demons is so much better than trying to side step it to get to the objective)

 

5) When the protagonist wants to keep their weapon to defend themselves (Because defending oneself against demons is a bad thing)

 

6) The protagonist not believing that they are the chosen one (Being skeptical is bad somehow)

 

7) Siding with Varric or being neutral when she fights with Varric

 

Look at all that open-mindedness.

[AnimalBoy]

Cassandra disapproves

 

1) A human who does not believe in the Maker (Because not believing in / being skeptical about an absentee father figure is a bad thing)

 

2) Granting mages freedom (Yes, let us imprison mages who were manipulated by time magics, but hey, redeeming Templars who blindly follow orders instead of thinking is okay)

 

3) Performing rituals at the Temple of Mythal (Because performing rituals so as to not anger the inhabitants in the temple is not okay)

 

4) Taking the mountain route over direct confrontation (Because rushing into battle with demons is so much better than trying to side step it to get to the objective)

 

5) When the protagonist wants to keep their weapon to defend themselves (Because defending oneself against demons is a bad thing)

 

6) The protagonist not believing that they are the chosen one (Being skeptical is bad somehow)

 

7) Siding with Varric or being neutral when she fights with Varric

 

Look at all that open-mindedness.

 

 

Sure. Why not just eliminate all opposing opinions and have everyone agree with you no matter what you do.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Sure. Why not just eliminate all opposing opinions and have everyone agree with you no matter what you do.

 

I was responding to GoldenGail3 claim that Cassandra is open minded. Please explain to me how can one be open minded and disapprove of other people's lack of belief, choosing indirect routes to fighting, being liberal and being rational.

[Tidus]

A better solution would be to have the possible romances bisexual instead of straight  only or gay only. This worked for Leliana and Zevran in DA:O. I think its pretty damn sad when I had to invent Chasha as a straight gay for romancing a nutty female Elf in DA:I. 

 

Why couldn't Sera be bisexual like Josephine? Easy to do with no extra production cost.

 

 

Tidus romances Josie since he's not to fond of Cassie. There no "Stockholm syndrome"  between those two.

[Donk]

Cassandra disapproves

1) A human who does not believe in the Maker (Because not believing in / being skeptical about an absentee father figure is a bad thing)

2) Granting mages freedom (Yes, let us imprison mages who were manipulated by time magics, but hey, redeeming Templars who blindly follow orders instead of thinking is okay)

3) Performing rituals at the Temple of Mythal (Because performing rituals so as to not anger the inhabitants in the temple is not okay)

4) Taking the mountain route over direct confrontation (Because rushing into battle with demons is so much better than trying to side step it to get to the objective)

5) When the protagonist wants to keep their weapon to defend themselves (Because defending oneself against demons is a bad thing)

6) The protagonist not believing that they are the chosen one (Being skeptical is bad somehow)

7) Siding with Varric or being neutral when she fights with Varric

Look at all that open-mindedness.

This was once my opinion of her.

But eventually, she comes around to understand the Inquisitor to more (even if you take options she disapproves of, such as not believing in the Maker) and even expresses how she respects you and considers you a good friend.

Her initial reactions toward you in the beginning of the game can be annoying and rub you the wrong way, but a couple of things happen later on that shows you a humorous and softer side.

The point is though, while she may judge you harshly in the beginning, she will apologise for it later on and recognise that she was wrong. To me that takes not only "open mindedness" but some guts as well.

[AnimalBoy]

I was responding to GoldenGail3 claim that Cassandra is open minded. Please explain to me how can one be open minded and disapprove of other people's lack of belief, choosing indirect routes to fighting, being liberal and being rational.

 

It's a video game.

Nothing more.

Who cares really?

Don't overthink it.  (Seems to me that i'm one of the few around this board who just plays the game for fun and doesn't start going into personal theories about how the characters act, hidden agendas and every other thought imaginable.)

[vbibbi]

Budget was not the reason I remember them giving (I accept budgetary constraints as a valid reason, but its not the reason they gave). This notion of angering gamers from the other games was, and I just don't understand it. It seems the height of bizarre, grasping and possessive behaviour to want to disallow people from romancing 'your' partner. If the character was in a relationship in your version of Origins, that's one thing - simply diallow the romance if they are listed in your version of the game as being in a romance). But if the character is single, then I just don't see what anyone has to complain about - why do the opinions of other gamers and their choice of optional romances have any bearing on my (or anyone else's) games?
 
It just doesn't make any sense to me at all. If Morrigan or Leliana were not romanced in Origins, they must therefore stay single forever? They can't even have relationships that don't include the Inquisitor for example? I don't see what anyone has to complain about, if they are paired up with someone else, if they are single at the time. Why shouldn't that happen (or at least be able to happen like... I don't know Cullen and Leliana or something?) Don't get me wrong on this - I'm not particularly interested in romancing either of them in DAI. Its more the principle that has been established here that bewilders me. And I probably wouldn't even have thought much about it, if the actual romances you could engage in were better realized.
 
Like I say, I find the whole system of how romances work to be flawed in Bioware games. 3-4 flirtations, and 1-2 dedicated courting/getting to know you better scenes make for a very shallow and unsatisying romance. As does the almost complete lack of further scenes once the romance begins. They've never done this very well, and DAI is no exception. The only difference is that this time, I also wasn't taken with the LIs in even a general sense. And this is just in the confines of a single game - its even worse when they try to establish continuity of romances across multiple games, constantly seperating (and in some case outright sabotaging) these romances.

In an ideal world we could have had Morrigan and Leli as options in DAI, but then we can extend that to any character. Without budget or time constraints maybe the game could have had a lot more romanced in it. But I feel like the reason Bio said hey don't want to anger players is because: romance is a hot button issue that the vocal minority fixated on. It's probably one of the most delicate issues Bio now has to consider when developing a game. Note they had been on record saying male Shepard is not gay for the first two games, then after fan feedback gave two m/m romances in ME3. After DA2 and ME3 they wanted to play things as safe as possible in DAI. IMO this is shown through the "chosen one fighting against an ancient evil seeking to rule the world" plot among other things. If, as AlanC9 says, they followed the ME3 format where certain sexes and orientations had less content due to conditional imports, especially for fan favorite Morrigan, a lot of people would be upset and media could focus on that rather than on the game as a whole.

Secondly, I think it's also a preference from the writers. They have already written a romance arc for the characters and want to do something else. I'm sure for them it would feel like retreading ground. Morrigan isn't even in the game for a long period of time, so her romance would either have to be rushed, or they would have to rework the plot to allow her earlier appearance. And it doesn't make sense to alter the game plot for he sake of a conditional romance.

[Abyss108]

It's a video game.

Nothing more.

Who cares really?

Don't overthink it.  (Seems to me that i'm one of the few around this board who just plays the game for fun and doesn't start going into personal theories about how the characters act, hidden agendas and every other thought imaginable.)

 

... You do realise you are posting in a forum specifically dedicated to discussing the characters and the plot of the games right? 

[Catilina]

It's a video game.

Nothing more.

Who cares really?

Don't overthink it.  (Seems to me that i'm one of the few around this board who just plays the game for fun and doesn't start going into personal theories about how the characters act, hidden agendas and every other thought imaginable.)

 

... You do realise you are posting in a forum specifically dedicated to discussing the characters and the plot of the games right? 

 

You're right, too ...
There is nothing to be taken too seriously!  (At least here ...)

[Aren]

Context is everything here. 

Haven't you read the part about the rocks?

I dislike DAO romance system because they work on gift system and can be manipulated by it,you can bring any companion to -100 for whatever reason and then bring them again to +100 with few rocks,with such awkward approval system all the romances lose part of their charm. 

There is not even need to kill flemeth for that to happen but just took that rock/grimoire to Morrigan and boom is love....

[AnimalBoy]

... You do realise you are posting in a forum specifically dedicated to discussing the characters and the plot of the games right? 

 

 

Yes. The GAME and CHARACTERS. These discussions delve into terrority of importance like these characters and events are real or really matter. It's not really all that important what Cassandra approves or doesn't approve of at the end of the day. But hey, i'm the guy who makes the exact same choices in every single playthrough i play because i play for fun and the content more then the multiple RPGing possibilities and apparently that's the wrong way to do it so what do i know.

[Dai Grepher]

Are men so desperate that they would abandon a decent accepting girl (Josephine) over someone who doesn't like what they stand for (Cassandra's disapprovals) but hey, she reads smut (Swords & Shields) and wants to be pampered like a brat (or courted, as she calls it), so let's romance her !

 

I guess the thirst is genuinely real.

 

From my observation, Josephine > Cassandra. Josephine is younger, prettier, is more accepting of people from other backgrounds, doesn't go around prodding people about their faith, doesn't disagree with you when you do something that you feel is sensible and doesn't ask to be pampered like a brat (instead she gives back to you by taking you out to watch theater and lets you win in gambling).

 

But Cassandra can disapprove of your choices but still love you regardless.

 

She wants to be treated like a woman. Not pampered.

 

Josephine is younger, but this can be a downside for older Inquisitors. And she's still old compared to a young Inquisitor. Jospehine is likely in her early 30s at best. She is slightly prettier than Cassandra, but then again, Cassandra's looks were dropped significantly between DA2 and DA:I. Josephine can be disagreeable as well at times. But I think both are adequately accepting.

 

She takes you to a stupid Orlesian play that makes no sense, and she is a dishonest cheater. Those aren't points in her favor.

 

Bottom line. You can take Cassandra almost everywhere you go. You can't take Josephine hardly anywhere. That means much more bonding time between the Inquisitor and Cassandra.

[Abyss108]

Yes. The GAME and CHARACTERS. These discussions delve into terrority of importance like these characters and events are real or really matter. It's not really all that important what Cassandra approves or doesn't approve of at the end of the day. But hey, i'm the guy who makes the exact same choices in every single playthrough i play because i play for fun and the content more then the RPGing and apparentl that's the wrong way to do it..

 

You can play the game however you want to, but its strange to go to the effort of posting about how other people care about the writing of the plot and characters and "RPGing" for an RPG which is primary known for its writing and characters in a place the developers have specifically set up to discuss these things.

 

You can care about whatever parts of the game you want to, but there's no reason to go around telling other people not to care about the parts they like and to stop thinking about it. Especially when it's a part that the devs have put a lot of effort into and obviously want people to care about.

 

No one has told you that you are "playing the game wrong", that's precisely what you are saying about other people.

[AnimalBoy]

You can play the game however you want to, but its strange to go to the effort of posting about how other people care about the writing of the plot and characters and "RPGing" for an RPG which is primary known for its writing and characters in a place the developers have specifically set up to discuss these things.

 

You can care about whatever parts of the game you want to, but there's no reason to go around telling other people not to care about the parts they like and to stop thinking about it. Especially when it's a part that the devs have put a lot of effort into and obviously want people to care about.

 

No one has told you that you are "playing the game wrong", that's precisely what you are saying about other people.

 

 

 

So, no one's told me that i'm playing the game for the wrong reasons or the wrong way huh? You must have read every single post i've made and the responses i've gotten then? Nice to know that i have you as such a big fan. And for the love of god, where did you read that i'm telling people how to play? I'm saying it's a game, there's no need to get into arguments in real life over it. But if people want to/like to do that then perhaps this isn't the place for me.