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[Dai Grepher]

Cassandra disapproves

 

1) A human who does not believe in the Maker (Because not believing in / being skeptical about an absentee father figure is a bad thing)

 

2) Granting mages freedom (Yes, let us imprison mages who were manipulated by time magics, but hey, redeeming Templars who blindly follow orders instead of thinking is okay)

 

3) Performing rituals at the Temple of Mythal (Because performing rituals so as to not anger the inhabitants in the temple is not okay)

 

4) Taking the mountain route over direct confrontation (Because rushing into battle with demons is so much better than trying to side step it to get to the objective)

 

5) When the protagonist wants to keep their weapon to defend themselves (Because defending oneself against demons is a bad thing)

 

6) The protagonist not believing that they are the chosen one (Being skeptical is bad somehow)

 

7) Siding with Varric or being neutral when she fights with Varric

 

Look at all that open-mindedness.

 

Cassandra disapproved of almost all of my Inquisitor's decisions, yet the romance still happened.

 

1. Wouldn't you be disappointed too if the possible savior of the world had no faith in what you had faith in?

 

2. Cassandra wants order, but she also had her own blind spots. She probably thought that the templars deserved autonomy since they had proven themselves by helping to defeat the red templars. If you discuss it with her she realizes that she was hasty to criticize.

 

3. She probably saw it as a violation of the Andrastian faith. My Inquisitor had a problem with it as well, but he did what was necessary to get into the temple more quickly without having to fight through dark catacombs of Venatori. There was no indication that completing the rituals would assuage any inhabitants.

 

4. Time was of the essence. She didn't want to risk your life on something that could have easily ended up being fruitless. But if you take the other path you will save the scouts and Cassandra will approve in this case.

 

5. Okay, you're reaching here. Cassandra didn't even know you at this point. She couldn't be sure of your intentions. If you agree to disarm she will decide then and there that you should be allowed to keep your weapons. So there is no issue here.

 

6. Same as 1.

 

7. She was hopping mad at that moment and misunderstood your motive. She thought you were taking Varric's side.

 

I think open-mindedness is shown more when a person is seen overcoming their hang-ups, not just eagerly going along with everything.

[Abyss108]

So, no one's told me that i'm playing the game for the wrong reasons or the wrong way huh? You must have read every single post i've made and the responses i've gotten then? Nice to know that i have you as such a big fan. And for the love of god, where did you read that i'm telling people how to play? I'm saying it's a game, there's no need to get into arguments in real life over it. But if people want to/like to do that then perhaps this isn't the place for me.

 

People are discussing and debating characters in the game and you post to say "Who cares" and that they should stop thinking about it. Caring about the characters is one of the main reasons a lot of people play the game and you are just telling them not to.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Cassandra disapproved of almost all of my Inquisitor's decisions, yet the romance still happened.

 

1. Wouldn't you be disappointed too if the possibly savior of the world had no faith in what you had faith in?

 

2. Cassandra wants order, but she also had her own blind spots. She probably thought that the templars deserved autonomy since they had proven themselves by helping to defeat the red templars. If you discuss it with her she realizes that she was hasty to criticize.

 

3. She probably saw it as a violation of the Andrastian faith. My Inquisitor had a problem with it as well, but he did what was necessary to get into the temple more quickly without having to fight through dark catacombs of Venatori. There was no indication that completing the rituals would assuage any inhabitants.

 

4. Time was of the essence. She didn't want to risk your life on something that could have easily ended up being fruitless. But if you take the other path you will save the scouts and Cassandra will approve in this case.

 

5. Okay, you're reaching here. Cassandra didn't even know you at this point. She couldn't be sure of your intentions. If you agree to disarm she will decide then and there that you should be allowed to keep your weapons. So there is no issue here.

 

6. Same as 1.

 

7. She was hopping mad at that moment and misunderstood your motive. She thought you were taking Varric's side.

 

I think open-mindedness is shown more when a person is seen overcoming their hang-ups, not just eagerly going along with everything.

 

1. I would not be disappointed because I find faith to be silly. I prefer reason, logic and evidence. In fact the game later proves that there is nothing faith-related with how the protagonist becomes imbued with the Mark of Fen Harel, it was because the Egghead's agents allowed Corypheus to locate his Orb, that Justinia decided to slap the Orb out of his hand and the protagonist decided to grab a hold of it.

 

2. She does not withdraw her disapproval. Which is annoying since I play the game with Trials enabled on so every approval and disapproval is doubled in magnitude.

 

3. Once again, I find faith to be a silly thing. My Inquisitor did it because he was fascinated and curious about the temple (instead of having blind faith in a religion) and he thought it was best to be respectful because he has no idea who he was dealing with (Abelas did not make himself known at the point). What would Andrastians think if you just saunter into the Church without following some basic codes of conduct ?

 

4. True, time was of the essence. However, it is very risky to bring a valuable asset (the protagonist) through the battle infested place instead of sneaking around it. What if he got himself killed or what if a demon got lucky ? Besides, Cassandra had shown previously that the Demons would require her full attention and she cannot defend our protagonist (who was an amnesiac at that point) properly.

 

5. Yes, let force someone to disarm themselves in the face of demonic threats. This is the equivalent of forcing someone potentially innocent to disarm themselves in war. Once again, she does not take back her disapproval and since I am playing with Trials, that's double disapprovals for you.

 

6. The game itself proves that being reasonable > being faithful. Especially after Adamant, Temple of Mythal and Trespasser.
 

7. She was hopping mad that she could not force and coerce someone else to join up with her to do her bidding like she did with Varric. Isn't that what she wants the Champion of Kirkwall to do ? Join up and restore things to way they were ? What if Hawke doesn't want to sent mages back to their prison ? What if Hawke is irreligious ? She was behaving like a thug and to me, Varric was simply being a good friend.

 

Bottom line is that Cassandra is not open minded because she does not take back those disapprovals (they remain regardless of her opinion change) and more importantly, she is a thug who relies too much on faith in a world that is messed up due to faith.

[AlanC9]

If you're going to start complaining about a vital PC bring brought to places where he's in unnecessary danger, then you're going to have a problem with a lot of Bio games.

[Abyss108]

Can't say I'm the biggest fan of Cassandra. I spent the entire game putting up with her idiotic faith and being diplomatic about it, and then as soon as something relating to my own Elvhen faith comes up she is massively disrespectful and dismissive.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Can't say I'm the biggest fan of Cassandra. I spent the entire game putting up with her idiotic faith and being diplomatic about it, and then as soon as something relating to my own Elvhen faith comes up she is massively disrespectful and dismissive.

 

Precisely. I find that Leliana, Josephine, Varric, Blackwall and Dorian to be the examples of moderate, liberal, tolerant and open minded Andrastians.

 

Leliana actually questions her faith and brings about liberal changes if she becomes Divine, Josephine views religion as a pragmatic diplomacy tool (she even greets Elven protagonists with the Elven greeting), Varric is just cool all around, so is Blackwall (he does not disapprove you performing Elven rituals, he even jokes about it) and Dorian is the same.

 

Not Cassandra.

 

Like I said, people are most definitely very thirsty and all you need to do to make someone seem likeable in DA world is make her be interested in smutty literature and wanting to be pampered like a brat.

[actionhero112]

 

Haven't you read the part about the rocks?

I dislike DAO romance system because they work on gift system and can be manipulated by it,you can bring any companion to -100 for whatever reason and then bring them again to +100 with few rocks,with such awkward approval system all the romances lose part of their charm. 

There is not even need to kill flemeth for that to happen but just took that rock/grimoire to Morrigan and boom is love....

 

You don't have to do it that way. You can get any companion to adore without needing gifts. 

 

You're still forced to do the entirety of the romance you realize. You still have to initially flirt get the black grimoire, give it to Morrigan, get the quest to kill flemeth, kill/make a deal, give the true grimoire to Morrigan, talk about your relationship etc etc.

 

How you get those points to trigger those conversations is up to you. But you still have to do the above. 

 

Your problem is entirely your own. YOU decided to game the system by abusing w/e gifts (decreasing returns makes this impossible to do, but you can always feast day it.) YOU decided to forgo talking to the LI instead spamming ornate box's or w/e. Then you complain about the problem that YOU created. 

 

Ridiculous. I repeat, you don't have to do it that way. 

[AresKeith]

But Cassandra can disapprove of your choices but still love you regardless.

She wants to be treated like a woman. Not pampered.

Josephine is younger, but this can be a downside for older Inquisitors. And she's still old compared to a young Inquisitor. Jospehine is likely in her early 30s at best. She is slightly prettier than Cassandra, but then again, Cassandra's looks were dropped significantly between DA2 and DA:I. Josephine can be disagreeable as well at times. But I think both are adequately accepting.

She takes you to a stupid Orlesian play that makes no sense, and she is a dishonest cheater. Those aren't points in her favor.

Bottom line. You can take Cassandra almost everywhere you go. You can't take Josephine hardly anywhere. That means much more bonding time between the Inquisitor and Cassandra.

How is Josephine a dishonest cheater?

[Bayonet Hipshot]

You don't have to do it that way. You can get any companion to adore without needing gifts. 

 

You're still forced to do the entirety of the romance you realize. You still have to initially flirt get the black grimoire, give it to Morrigan, get the quest to kill flemeth, kill/make a deal, give the true grimoire to Morrigan, talk about your relationship etc etc.

 

How you get those points to trigger those conversations is up to you. But you still have to do the above. 

 

Your problem is entirely your own. YOU decided to game the system by abusing w/e gifts (decreasing returns makes this impossible to do, but you can always feast day it.) YOU decided to forgo talking to the LI instead spamming ornate box's or w/e. Then you complain about the problem that YOU created. 

 

Ridiculous. I repeat, you don't have to do it that way. 

 

Agreed. People forget that there is another path to romance Morrigan and it involves becoming her friend, getting her the grimoire by killing Flemeth (you would kill someone who plans to possess your potential beloved) and then when she asks if "Can we be more than just friends ?", say yes and the romance will trigger.

 

 

 

How is Josephine a dishonest cheater?

 

Yes I am curious about this. Josephine is anything but a dishonest cheater.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

Josephine is younger, but this can be a downside for older Inquisitors. And she's still old compared to a young Inquisitor. Jospehine is likely in her early 30s at best. She is slightly prettier than Cassandra, but then again, Cassandra's looks were dropped significantly between DA2 and DA:I. Josephine can be disagreeable as well at times. But I think both are adequately accepting.

 

She takes you to a stupid Orlesian play that makes no sense, and she is a dishonest cheater. Those aren't points in her favor.

Josephine is somewhere between 27-29 according to her writer. 

 

As to the underlined, what?

[AresKeith]

Precisely. I find that Leliana, Josephine, Varric, Blackwall and Dorian to be the examples of moderate, liberal, tolerant and open minded Andrastians.

Leliana actually questions her faith and brings about liberal changes if she becomes Divine, Josephine views religion as a pragmatic diplomacy tool (she even greets Elven protagonists with the Elven greeting), Varric is just cool all around, so is Blackwall (he does not disapprove you performing Elven rituals, he even jokes about it) and Dorian is the same.

Not Cassandra.

Like I said, people are most definitely very thirsty and all you need to do to make someone seem likeable in DA world is make her be interested in smutty literature and wanting to be pampered like a brat.

Except Cassandra doesn't want to be pampered like a brat, and I like how you try to call people thirsty by assuming that people like her just because she reads "smutty" books

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Except Cassandra doesn't want to be pampered like a brat, and I like how you try to call people thirsty by assuming that people like her just because she reads "smutty" books

 

She does. She wants candle lights, secluded pretty spot and romantic poetry. The Inquisitor has to go all the way to Val Royeaux from Skyhold to get some flowers, find a Dwarven merchant in the middle of nowhere and then find a nice secluded romantic spot.

 

Then in Trespasser, if you propose marriage to her and if she is not Divine, she says she will consider it if it is "romantic enough". What does that even mean ? More poetry ? More candle lights ? More edition of swords and shields ?

 

Seriously, Cassandra's romance arc is about what she wants. Her arc is about you flirting with her, getting Varric to write a book for her, doing the Seeker questline for her and getting stuff for her. What about what the guy wants ? It is never a two way street like a romance should be, it is a one way street. You don't get to request anything of her and she doesn't give you anything in return. The whole affair reminds me of a pavlovian 'carrot and stick' approach.

 

I have dealt with girls like that in real life. First the demands start small and then it will get more and more outrageous as time goes on but in her eyes, those demands will be justified because "romance" / "romantic". I'm sure people have seen this. First its an expensive dinner date at a restaurant or an expensive vacation because its "romantic". Then it will escalate to an expensive worthless diamond ring and an extravagant wedding because that is "romantic" as well. Then later, it will be a double story house and a fancy car because "romantic". All the while she gives nothing in return but happily accepts and receives what she wants because "romance".

[Frybread76]

Maybe I'm just getting old, but I don't care too much about video game romances anymore, unless they tie-in with the main narrative, like the Solamance.  I did Cassandra's romance once, then never did that or any other since that first play through.

[AresKeith]

She does. She wants candle lights, secluded pretty spot and romantic poetry. The Inquisitor has to go all the way to Val Royeaux from Skyhold to get some flowers, find a Dwarven merchant in the middle of nowhere and then find a nice secluded romantic spot.

Then in Trespasser, if you propose marriage to her and if she is not Divine, she says she will consider it if it is "romantic enough". What does that even mean ? More poetry ? More candle lights ? More edition of swords and shields ?

Seriously, Cassandra's romance arc is about what she wants. Her arc is about you flirting with her, getting Varric to write a book for her, doing the Seeker questline for her and getting stuff for her. What about what the guy wants ? It is never a two way street like a romance should be, it is a one way street. You don't get to request anything of her and she doesn't give you anything in return. The whole affair reminds me of a pavlovian 'carrot and stick' approach.

I have dealt with girls like that in real life. First the demands start small and then it will get more and more outrageous as time goes on but in her eyes, those demands will be justified because "romance" / "romantic". I'm sure people have seen this. First its an expensive dinner date at a restaurant or an expensive vacation because its "romantic". Then it will escalate to an expensive worthless diamond ring and an extravagant wedding because that is "romantic" as well. Then later, it will be a double story house and a fancy car because "romantic".

1. So she wants to be treated like a woman, so what?

2. So basically a companion....

3. And now you're applying things that we won't even see happen in the game to further base the romance lol

[Dai Grepher]

1. I would not be disappointed because I find faith to be silly. I prefer reason, logic and evidence. In fact the game later proves that there is nothing faith-related with how the protagonist becomes imbued with the Mark of Fen Harel, it was because the Egghead's agents allowed Corypheus to locate his Orb, that Justinia decided to slap the Orb out of his hand and the protagonist decided to grab a hold of it.

 

2. She does not withdraw her disapproval. Which is annoying since I play the game with Trials enabled on so every approval and disapproval is doubled in magnitude.

 

3. Once again, I find faith to be a silly thing. My Inquisitor did it because he was fascinated and curious about the temple (instead of having blind faith in a religion) and he thought it was best to be respectful because he has no idea who he was dealing with (Abelas did not make himself known at the point). What would Andrastians think if you just saunter into the Church without following some basic codes of conduct ?

 

4. True, time was of the essence. However, it is very risky to bring a valuable asset (the protagonist) through the battle infested place instead of sneaking around it. What if he got himself killed or what if a demon got lucky ? Besides, Cassandra had shown previously that the Demons would require her full attention and she cannot defend our protagonist (who was an amnesiac at that point) properly.

 

5. Yes, let force someone to disarm themselves in the face of demonic threats. This is the equivalent of forcing someone potentially innocent to disarm themselves in war. Once again, she does not take back her disapproval and since I am playing with Trials, that's double disapprovals for you.

 

6. The game itself proves that being reasonable > being faithful. Especially after Adamant, Temple of Mythal and Trespasser.
 

7. She was hopping mad that she could not force and coerce someone else to join up with her to do her bidding like she did with Varric. Isn't that what she wants the Champion of Kirkwall to do ? Join up and restore things to way they were ? What if Hawke doesn't want to sent mages back to their prison ? What if Hawke is irreligious ? She was behaving like a thug and to me, Varric was simply being a good friend.

 

Bottom line is that Cassandra is not open minded because she does not take back those disapprovals (they remain regardless of her opinion change) and more importantly, she is a thug who relies too much on faith in a world that is messed up due to faith.

 

1. Okay, but she didn't know that at first. So faith is all she had. So replace faith with opinions. If you encountered someone who held the opposite opinion as you, wouldn't you be more likely to not want to date them? Or if someone espoused an idea that you found wrong or perhaps harmful, wouldn't you disapprove? And besides, in Cassandra's case she can disapprove but still end up being a friend. It isn't like she condemns you for your differing opinion.

 

2. She doesn't retract the disapproval, but that could be a gameplay oversight. What matters is that she checks herself and compliments you on making a decision when it needed to be made.

 

3. Okay, you find faith to be silly, and you disapprove of Cassandra because of it. How is that any different from what she does? Also, Sera disapproves as well because she's worried about demons and such. Do you hold that against her?

 

4. It was the fastest way, and there was danger all around no matter what path you took. Charging with the army to support you is the safer and quicker route. The other path is the riskier but more selfless route.

 

5. Well lets leave trials out of it, since that's extra content used to manipulate how the game plays. The prisoner was still a suspect at that point. Her demand was reasonable and justified.

 

6. Faith is what drove the people to fight against the Breach and the evil that caused it. Without faith, the people would have had no will to fight.

 

7. She was mad at Varric for lying to her. She was mad at herself for not seeing through the deception or making Varric understand the need. It had nothing to do with the Champion joining her. She was tasked to find the Champion to assist the Divine. That's all. She thought that Hawke's involvement might have prevented the explosion entirely. So of course she was mad that Varric lied and she failed to realize it.

 

Well, the disapproval is a gameplay mechanic. I don't see taking back the disapproval as important. What's the point of having it then? Besides, you can up her approval in other ways, which means she can set aside anything she disapproves of. Compare this to someone like Alistair, whom you can be at 100 friendship with and yet will still leave the party unless you do what he wants and let Loghain be executed.

[Dai Grepher]

Precisely. I find that Leliana, Josephine, Varric, Blackwall and Dorian to be the examples of moderate, liberal, tolerant and open minded Andrastians.

 

Leliana actually questions her faith and brings about liberal changes if she becomes Divine, Josephine views religion as a pragmatic diplomacy tool (she even greets Elven protagonists with the Elven greeting), Varric is just cool all around, so is Blackwall (he does not disapprove you performing Elven rituals, he even jokes about it) and Dorian is the same.

 

Not Cassandra.

 

Like I said, people are most definitely very thirsty and all you need to do to make someone seem likeable in DA world is make her be interested in smutty literature and wanting to be pampered like a brat.

 

Blackwall will have a big problem with you if you exile the Wardens. Sera will aim an arrow at your face if you drink from the Well. Real open-minded. Sera also disapproves if you are a Dalish who believes in Dalish things when you're "supposed to be" the Herald of Andraste.

 

Leliana is the most tyrannical Divine there is, and the most bigoted, and the most naïve.
 

[Dai Grepher]

How is Josephine a dishonest cheater?

 

She's a brown-noser. If you pick the necromancer spec she says that she will lie about what you are to others. If you romance her and play Wicked Grace, she rigs the game in your favor and congratulates you as if you won it yourself (thus also stealing from friends).
 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Leliana is the most tyrannical Divine there is, and the most bigoted, and the most naïve.

What?

[AresKeith]

She's a brown-noser. If you pick the necromancer spec she says that she will lie about what you are to others. If you romance her and play Wicked Grace, she rigs the game in your favor and congratulates you as if you won it yourself (thus also stealing from friends).

Not really seeing a negative here....

[Dai Grepher]

Josephine is somewhere between 27-29 according to her writer.

 

Well, there you go then. Old. At least to most Inquisitors anyway. Or in my Inquisitor's case, too young. Mine is in his early 40's.
 

[AresKeith]

What?

Yeah I agree with Hanako on that

I get tyrannical with Hardened and Naive with unhardened but bigoted?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

She's a brown-noser. If you pick the necromancer spec she says that she will lie about what you are to others. If you romance her and play Wicked Grace, she rigs the game in your favor and congratulates you as if you won it yourself (thus also stealing from friends).

She is in charge of your relations with the rest of Thedas. Other than Nevarra and Tevinter, necromancy is frowned upon so she is helping you and the Inquisition by keeping it secret. 

How is it stealing from friends when they are gambling? They put the money up knowing they could lose it. Does Las Vegas steal from everyone who gambles there?

[Abyss108]

I remember Leiliana had a pretty insulting conversation with my Elves back in Origins.

[AresKeith]

She is in charge of your relations with the rest of Thedas. Other than Nevarra and Tevinter, necromancy is frowned upon so she is helping you and the Inquisition by keeping it secret.
How is it stealing from friends when they are gambling? They put the money up knowing they could lose it. Does Las Vegas steal from everyone who gambles there?

Well Casinos can technically steal by cheating, but that isn't really the same as the friendly game of Wicked Grace

[Dai Grepher]

She does. She wants candle lights, secluded pretty spot and romantic poetry. The Inquisitor has to go all the way to Val Royeaux from Skyhold to get some flowers, find a Dwarven merchant in the middle of nowhere and then find a nice secluded romantic spot.

 

Then in Trespasser, if you propose marriage to her and if she is not Divine, she says she will consider it if it is "romantic enough". What does that even mean ? More poetry ? More candle lights ? More edition of swords and shields ?

 

Seriously, Cassandra's romance arc is about what she wants. Her arc is about you flirting with her, getting Varric to write a book for her, doing the Seeker questline for her and getting stuff for her. What about what the guy wants ? It is never a two way street like a romance should be, it is a one way street. You don't get to request anything of her and she doesn't give you anything in return. The whole affair reminds me of a pavlovian 'carrot and stick' approach.

 

I have dealt with girls like that in real life. First the demands start small and then it will get more and more outrageous as time goes on but in her eyes, those demands will be justified because "romance" / "romantic". I'm sure people have seen this. First its an expensive dinner date at a restaurant or an expensive vacation because its "romantic". Then it will escalate to an expensive worthless diamond ring and an extravagant wedding because that is "romantic" as well. Then later, it will be a double story house and a fancy car because "romantic". All the while she gives nothing in return but happily accepts and receives what she wants because "romance".

 

And the Inquisitor has to go all the way to Val Royeaux to duel some nobody in a Josephine romance. So what?

 

That isn't what she says. She says that when he does propose to her for real, she is sure it will be romantic.

 

Um... did you miss the part where she has sex with the Inquisitor?  But even before that shows genuine care for him and says encouraging things.

 

You don't know Cassandra will be like that though.