210 réponses à ce sujet

[GoldenGail3]

I remember Leiliana had a pretty insulting conversation with my Elves back in Origins.

My Surana wasn't happy about that, I assure you. She didn't even remeber the Alienage, lol. So how she suppose to know what it wax like?

[Dai Grepher]

What?

 

Bigoted

 

Adjective

 

1. utterly intolerant of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

[Dai Grepher]

Not really seeing a negative here....

 

Didn't claim you'd see it as a negative. But it is dishonest of her.
 

[Dai Grepher]

She is in charge of your relations with the rest of Thedas. Other than Nevarra and Tevinter, necromancy is frowned upon so she is helping you and the Inquisition by keeping it secret. 

How is it stealing from friends when they are gambling? They put the money up knowing they could lose it. Does Las Vegas steal from everyone who gambles there?

 

Call it what you want, it's still dishonest.

 

Because she is cheating.
 

[AresKeith]

Call it what you want, it's still dishonest.

Because she is cheating.

And you're making a big deal over something really small

[In Exile]

She's a brown-noser. If you pick the necromancer spec she says that she will lie about what you are to others. If you romance her and play Wicked Grace, she rigs the game in your favor and congratulates you as if you won it yourself (thus also stealing from friends).
 

 

She's a politician. That's ... literally her job, and her whole reason for being in the Inquisition. To be very subtle about how she builds people up so that - when she asks them for favours - they do it. People have a weird take on her morality just because she doesn't like killing. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Bigoted

 

Adjective

 

1. utterly intolerant of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

I know what a bigot is. What I was asking was how is Leliana the most bigoted of the Divine choices? 

[Frybread76]

I know what a bigot is. What I was asking was how is Leliana the most bigoted of the Divine choices? 

 

Is this one of those "you're intolerant for not tolerating others' intolerance" arguments being made against Leliana?  Like saying her opening up the Chantry to non-humans is bigotry because she doesn't take into account other people's religious beliefs (i.e. their racism against elves and dwarves)?

[Dai Grepher]

And you're making a big deal over something really small

 

I'm not. I was asked how she was dishonest. I answered. I have no problem with what she did. In fact, I thought Wicked Grace encouraged cheating. Or maybe that was just how Isabela made it seem.
 

She's a politician. That's ... literally her job, and her whole reason for being in the Inquisition. To be very subtle about how she builds people up so that - when she asks them for favours - they do it. People have a weird take on her morality just because she doesn't like killing.

 

Thanks for agreeing with me... for a change.
 

I know what a bigot is. What I was asking was how is Leliana the most bigoted of the Divine choices?

 

Given the name Divine Victoria, she first declares an end to the Circle of Magi; the mages will now govern themselves.

She opens the priesthood to other races, declares support for the Inquisition, and rededicates the Chantry to the principle of charity.

Divine Victoria is controversial from the start, several new sects arise, resisting her reforms and declaring her rule a threat to the faith.

 

    Leliana "hardened"

        Her response is as swift as it is deadly, unity is maintained, but blood runs through the halls of the Grand Cathedral.

    Leliana "softened"

        She meets with their leaders, urging unity. Miraculously her words take root, and - for now - the Chantry remains strong.

    Leliana's personal quest is skipped

        She does not fight them, and it is not long before the Chantry's fractures threaten to tear it apart forever.

 

No compromise in any of her paths. Even Vivienne makes certain concessions to keep people happy, even while crushing the most unreasonable dissenters. Leliana goes on to re-canonize the Canticle of Shartan, dividing Andrastians deeply, and declares that Chantry members can marry.

 

I remember my female elven mage talking to her about it after she was steeled. She argues for changing the Chantry by force, and when my character said that change doesn't happen that way, Leliana basically just flat out says that it should, because how else will you get things done.

[In Exile]

No compromise in any of her paths. Even Vivienne makes certain concessions to keep people happy, even while crushing the most unreasonable dissenters. Leliana goes on to re-canonize the Canticle of Shartan, dividing Andrastians deeply, and declares that Chantry members can marry.

 

I remember my female elven mage talking to her about it after she was steeled. She argues for changing the Chantry by force, and when my character said that change doesn't happen that way, Leliana basically just flat out says that it should, because how else will you get things done.

Bigot is not the right word. I think fanatic or zealot is more appropriate. This is especially true when you look at synonyms for bigot:

 

• : a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person;especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)

•  

zeal·ot

ˈzelət/

noun

 

1. a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals.
2.  

 

fa·nat·ic

fəˈnadik/

noun

 

1. 1.

   a person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal, especially for an extreme religious or political cause.
2.  

    

[Dai Grepher]

 

Bigot is not the right word. I think fanatic or zealot is more appropriate. This is especially true when you look at synonyms for bigot:

 

• : a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person;especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)

•  

zeal·ot

ˈzelət/

noun

 

1. a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals.
2.  

 

fa·nat·ic

fəˈnadik/

noun

 

1. 1.

   a person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal, especially for an extreme religious or political cause.
2.  

    

 

 

Hmmm.....

 

Nah.

[ModernAcademic]

Cassandra has made me relies how horrible most of the human population is.  People always start by throwing out words like butch and tranny.  She looks like a woman who has trained and faugh for her whole life would look.  I mean a gaming company finally gives us a real woman and not a Barbi doll and people are just horrible about it...

 

That's because most players are used to seeing blonde, half-naked elves who fawn over them just because they have muscles.

 

So when they meet a character that's actually close to a real person, it's quite a shock.

[AlanC9]

I'm not. I was asked how she was dishonest. I answered. I have no problem with what she did. In fact, I thought Wicked Grace encouraged cheating. Or maybe that was just how Isabela made it seem.

So Josephine's just playing Wicked Grace the way the game is supposed to be played? OK. But then it's awfully silly to say that she's "dishonest" because she plays the game properly. It doesn't say anything useful about her honesty in other contexts.

[Abyss108]

... So how is Leiliana bigoted? I really really hate her for numerous reasons, but I just can't see it. She makes changes to the order she is in charge of, which is her right. Someone has to make the decisions, and you can't make everyone agree. They decided to put Leiliana in charge.

 

She doesn't go around to people in different orders or different races and force them to follow her point of view. She doesn't make people convert, or tell them they are wrong. She doesn't look down on other people who disagree with her.

 

Which group is she supposed to unfairly hate here?

[Vajrajina]

@vajrajina Don't let your own sexuality control your romance choices in these games.  Role play.  I love Dorian's character, so I created a male Inquisitor just to romance him and I plan on creating a male character just to romance Cassandra.  They're well written and it's a game, enjoy it.  If you're concerned that much about what others might think, create another gamer profile and experiment to determine which of the characters you enjoy the most.  The romance is only a small portion of the game and you don't actually have to romance anyone.  In fact, the default world state has you never romancing anyone in either DAO or DA:2.

Well, I didn't want to say it like this, but I feel really upset by male homosexual scenes. It has nothing to do with my beliefs or my expectations on gay people, I honestly support their freedom IRL, but at the same time I don't want to see them doing it. Not because I think it's unclean or anything, I just don't like the sight of it. I tend to look away if there is a gay scene in a movie.
And I expect there would be at least a kiss in the Dorian romance and that would possibly give me cramps.

Please understand I DO NOT hate gays or anything like that.

[Qun00]

Well, there you go then. Old. At least to most Inquisitors anyway.

I didn't realize we could play a 15y old Inquisitor.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well, I didn't want to say it like this, but I feel really upset by male homosexual scenes. It has nothing to do with my beliefs or my expectations on gay people, I honestly support their freedom IRL, but at the same time I don't want to see them doing it. Not because I think it's unclean or anything, I just don't like the sight of it. I tend to look away if there is a gay scene in a movie.
And I expect there would be at least a kiss in the Dorian romance and that would possibly give me cramps.

Please understand I DO NOT hate gays or anything like that.

With Dorian's romance, you can decline from having sex with him and the romance will still continue without it. 

[Artona]

 

 

Seriously, Cassandra's romance arc is about what she wants. Her arc is about you flirting with her, getting Varric to write a book for her, doing the Seeker questline for her and getting stuff for her. What about what the guy wants ? It is never a two way street like a romance should be, it is a one way street. You don't get to request anything of her and she doesn't give you anything in return. The whole affair reminds me of a pavlovian 'carrot and stick' approach.

 

That can be said about every romance about every roleplay game I've ever played. Aerie, Jaheira, Viconia, Nathyrra, Valen, Shani, Triss, Morrigan, Leliana, Fenris, Isabela, Merrill, Miranda, Jack... It's always "say nice things to me and do my sidequest!". I think only Ashley is different. I dislike it as well (and on my next Dragon Age playthrough I'm going to romance no one - good old Baldurs Gate 1 style), but really, Cassandra's romance isn't any special. 

[Al Foley]

She gives you great sex and has a marvelous sense of humor.

[vbibbi]

Well, I didn't want to say it like this, but I feel really upset by male homosexual scenes. It has nothing to do with my beliefs or my expectations on gay people, I honestly support their freedom IRL, but at the same time I don't want to see them doing it. Not because I think it's unclean or anything, I just don't like the sight of it. I tend to look away if there is a gay scene in a movie.
And I expect there would be at least a kiss in the Dorian romance and that would possibly give me cramps.
Please understand I DO NOT hate gays or anything like that.

"I support teh gaiz as long as I don't have to see them and they keep themselves separate from the rest of society. But I'm all for them. Oh, and seeing two men kiss would physically make me sick."

Good to know, thanks for sharing.

[Ieldra]

"I support teh gaiz as long as I don't have to see them and they keep themselves separate from the rest of society. But I'm all for them. Oh, and seeing two men kiss would physically make me sick."

Good to know, thanks for sharing.

That was not what he meant. I know, because I'm the same. You can't change how you feel, but you can refuse to let that impact how you think, and anyway my passion for freedom is much greater than this very specific dislike. It is stricly my problem, not "theirs", and anyway people - of any orientation - are usually not intrusive with their passions for each other, so that's usually not a problem in RL, but in visual storytellling you see much more, and that means I can't play a romance like Dorian's, as much as I might want to because I like him as a character.

[o Ventus]

>Cassandra

>Too butch

 

Pick one, you don't get both.

[Dai Grepher]

So Josephine's just playing Wicked Grace the way the game is supposed to be played? OK. But then it's awfully silly to say that she's "dishonest" because she plays the game properly. It doesn't say anything useful about her honesty in other contexts.

 

In my mind, yes. However, the other characters don't see it that way and they are playing the game honestly. To someone like my Inquisitor, who favors truth above all things, he would consider that dishonest. I'm sure Cullen would too.

 

No, it's silly to say that the game encourages dishonesty, therefore Josephine isn't being dishonest by playing dishonestly.

 

Didn't write that it did. That's why I gave examples of her dishonesty in other contexts.
 

[Al Foley]

>Cassandra

>Too butch

 

Pick one, you don't get both.

Cassandra is the most delicate and lady like flower in the entire-

(disgusted noise)

sorry dear.

[Vanilka]

I had a rather opposite experience. I fell for Cassandra pretty much immediately. She's the female character I've always wanted in my games. Tough, all about doing the right thing. (Aveline is like that, just not romanceable.) I really love the moment when she reinstates the Inquisition and how she rambles about how she would change the Chantry and Seekers. I like how she so often keeps thinking about and evaluating her own actions. Catching her with the "smutty literature" and finding out she could also be adorable was a cherry on top.

 

Personally, I think Cassandra is very beautiful. (I also think that Josie is beautiful.) Don't give a damn about whether or not she's "butch" because she is who she is and it suits her perfectly. That's part of her charm and what I like about her in the first place.

 

My first and favourite playthrough is a female elf mage though, so no Cassandra for me. But, well, at least I didn't have a dilemma since I am just as happy to jump at Cullen. I've made male Trevelyan for Cassandra, though. (Also to try the Champions of the Just and other options the game offers.) So far I've got to the... poetry reading, which I thought was really sweet. Hell, I don't even like poetry, I really don't, but that scene... my heart.  (Also, props to the manquisitor because that's some serious effort right there, lol.) It was so cute and funny. And a little sad when she confessed about the other dude and you realised she never mentioned it until then, no matter how much it might have affected her. (And never mentions it to the unromanced Inquisitor, as far as I know.) I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of it.

 

I'm really happy we've got Cassandra.

 

Then again, I'm not a guy.