157 réponses à ce sujet

[goishen]

I don't care if it's ported over from a ColecoVision.  As long as it's fun.  Don't care about E-sports either.  That's great, that means that they have been sitting behind that screen for way too long. 

[UniformGreyColor]

Uhh, no? If the technology is available to run it at a higher framerate, it should be done. This isn't even a point of opinion, higher framerate is better than lower.

 

Key word being if. With higher graphics, frame rates are going to be a factor for a set piece of hardware. 

 

The enemies are harder at higher FPS. You sure you SPs can handle that?

 

Errr... what?

 

That is a peculiarity of the Unreal3-engine. Frostbite doesn't have that problem.

 

This is actually a thing?

 

This.

In fact, in ME3MP, (PC), would cap frame rate at 60.

The reason was because at 100 or so it was a totally different game, difficulty-wise.

 

You can't be serious! You people are telling me that because frame rates are higher that the AI has more "time" to think?

 

 

I can personally attest to the fact that gaming on PC with higher graphics and better frame rates greatly enhances my playing experience. I experienced this firsthand when I first played DA:O on PS3 and then moved to PC. The difference is night and day.

[Laughing_Man]

You can't be serious! You people are telling me that because frame rates are higher that the AI has more "time" to think?

 

To my understanding there is no inherent connection between frame rate and AI or any other game mechanic.

 

That said, some games in the past attached the frame rate to certain parts in the game engine, and people that tried to edit game files to remove

the frame rate cap found out that it had some very strange effects on gameplay, mainly speeding up the game.

 

But that's just developers being lazy, that's not the norm.

[Gileadan]

You can't be serious! You people are telling me that because frame rates are higher that the AI has more "time" to think?

Not quite. It becomes more accurate.

 

In the Unreal 3 engine, the AI's target awareness and acquisition is updated with every frame drawn. At 30 FPS, the AI gets its normal amount of targeting updates. At 60 FPS, it's twice as many targeting updates in the same amount of time, making it that more accurate, mostly against moving targets. On the other hand, throttling FPS down to 15 halves its targeting information updates, making it notably worse at hitting moving targets.

 

I remember quite well how watching some gold and platinum gameplay on youtube made me wonder time and again "why didn't that guy get instantly vaporized when he ran out of cover?"  I had always been playing on PC at 60 FPS, and the videos were mostly from console gamers at 30 FPS. It was weeks later until I learned about how Unreal 3 handles AI targeting updates, and then it was easily confirmed by forcing various FPS values through the ini file.

[UniformGreyColor]

It makes sense I guess, I just never would have imagined the engine would dictate how update is through FPS. Huh.

[Laughing_Man]

Not quite. It becomes more accurate.

 

In the Unreal 3 engine, the AI's target awareness and acquisition is updated with every frame drawn. At 30 FPS, the AI gets its normal amount of targeting updates. At 60 FPS, it's twice as many targeting updates in the same amount of time, making it that more accurate, mostly against moving targets. On the other hand, throttling FPS down to 15 halves its targeting information updates, making it notably worse at hitting moving targets.

 

I remember quite well how watching some gold and platinum gameplay on youtube made me wonder time and again "why didn't that guy get instantly vaporized when he ran out of cover?"  I had always been playing on PC at 60 FPS, and the videos were mostly from console gamers at 30 FPS. It was weeks later until I learned about how Unreal 3 handles AI targeting updates, and then it was easily confirmed by forcing various FPS values through the ini file.

 

Again, that's a specific design choice, it's not inherently connected to FPS, and I would argue that this is actually a design failure.

[o Ventus]

                                                                                        <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

You do realize that there are limiting factors, such as hardware capability and game graphics selection criteria that determines FPS rates?  Yes?

 

My potential issue is the LOCKED fps rate vs unlocked.  The game ought to be able to analyze the hardware and dynamically set up the graphics options and fps rate (according to Bio's internal criteria). But, also, let you change them at "your peril".

 

Did you not read beyond the first sentence of that post?

[o Ventus]

Still cant tell the difference and the comments section tries to tell me I have to watch it on chrome to be able to tell.

Sounds like BS.

 

I use Chrome by default, so if there's any viewing issues, I'm not running into them.

 

Here's another example if the video isn't working for people. This isn't a video, it's a series of 3 identical flash animations, one at 15 fps, one at 30, and one at 60.

 

https://boallen.com/fps-compare.html

[goishen]

I use Chrome by default, so if there's any viewing issues, I'm not running into them.

 

Here's another example if the video isn't working for people. This isn't a video, it's a series of 3 identical flash animations, one at 15 fps, one at 30, and one at 60.

 

https://boallen.com/fps-compare.html

 

I've taken two tests, I'm not taking a third.  

[slimgrin]

I've taken two tests, I'm not taking a third.  

 

Do you believe the earth is flat as well?

[goishen]

Do you believe the earth is flat as well?

 

 

What?

 

/facepalm

[slimgrin]

What?

 

/facepalm

 

Ok I joke but explaining a well established fact to people who claim it isn't true...frustrating. 

[rashie]

Again, that's a specific design choice, it's not inherently connected to FPS, and I would argue that this is actually a design failure.

Not quite, I don't think it is an active design choice so much as a side effect of optimization and being lazy.

 

Tying things to frame rate like that is usually much simpler to execute in terms of coding compared to the alternatives, if you're making a PC game, you usually try to avoid frame rate having such an effect, but ME3 was a console port.

[goishen]

Ok I joke but explaining a well established fact to people who claim it isn't true...frustrating. 

 

Look, for maybe 5% of the population, it is true.  The rest of us, it's not.  

 

Imagine a baseball player throwing pitches at you at 100 mph.  Now, if you can see that ball as clearly as you have specified, I'm willing to give you $5.  If you can hit it, I'm willing to give you $10.  It's the same thing.  I suck at hitting baseballs in real life.  In WiiSports, I'm the man though. 

 

What I'm trying to say is that even though they can see that many FPS doesn't account for them going out and trying to be baseball stars.  What it does do, however, is make them count their lucky stars for being able to play video games for a living, and stop dropping their elitist bullshit all over the rest of us.

 

Got me?

[The Hierophant]

Look, for maybe 5% of the population, it is true.  The rest of us, it's not.  

 

Imagine a baseball player throwing pitches at you at 100 mph.  Now, if you can see that ball as clearly as you have specified, I'm willing to give you $5.  If you can hit it, I'm willing to give you $10.  It's the same thing.  I suck at hitting baseballs in real life.  In WiiSports, I'm the man though. 

 

What I'm trying to say is that even though they can see that many FPS doesn't account for them going out and trying to be baseball stars.  What it does do, however, is make them count their lucky stars for being able to play video games for a living, and stop dropping their elitist bullshit all over the rest of us.

 

Got me?

No. 

[Andrew Lucas]

30 FPS, almost guaranteed. Unless they pull a Battlefront, but that's a game with a whole different purpose.

[pdusen]

Again, that's a specific design choice, it's not inherently connected to FPS, and I would argue that this is actually a design failure.

Exactly. Game mechanics like AI usually update on "ticks", not on frames. Any instance where ticks and frames are the same thing is an instance of sloppy game design.

[Linkenski]

Anyone who believes 60fps will ever become a standard for console gaming are deluding themselves. Perhaps if the cloud ever becomes a thing and computer hardware becomes flexible and virtually upgradable, but no, really. From day 1 developers are already pushing the hardware limits. Then as a generation goes along they find ways to more effectively use the hardware, which usually means certain sacrifices. As pretty as Mass Effect 3 is, I can point to a series of technical things that ME1 did better which they needed to cut out to make ME3 look better overall.

 

It's going to be locked 30fps. It will never go above that but it may even go beyond sometimes.

[Just My Moniker]

I use Chrome by default, so if there's any viewing issues, I'm not running into them.

 

Here's another example if the video isn't working for people. This isn't a video, it's a series of 3 identical flash animations, one at 15 fps, one at 30, and one at 60.

 

https://boallen.com/fps-compare.html

Only difference I can see there is the 15 fps one, 30 and 60 still look the same.

 

I don't see why people get so crazy over this, but to each their own I guess :/

[o Ventus]

Look, for maybe 5% of the population, it is true.  The rest of us, it's not.  

 

Imagine a baseball player throwing pitches at you at 100 mph.  Now, if you can see that ball as clearly as you have specified, I'm willing to give you $5.  If you can hit it, I'm willing to give you $10.  It's the same thing.  I suck at hitting baseballs in real life.  In WiiSports, I'm the man though. 

 

What I'm trying to say is that even though they can see that many FPS doesn't account for them going out and trying to be baseball stars.  What it does do, however, is make them count their lucky stars for being able to play video games for a living, and stop dropping their elitist bullshit all over the rest of us.

 

Got me?

 

Framerate has nothing to do with speed. It's about the smoothness and fluidity of the animation, not how fast it is.

 

It's not a matter of elitism, it's objective fact that higher framerate makes for smoother and more fluid animations, as well as cleaner gameplay. It's not only what you see with your eyes, it's also how the game feels when being played. It's not "elitist" to also understand that the Earth is round and that water is wet.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I've shot video. When I'm shooting a video of a golf swing for example at 60 fps, while it looks fine at normal speed, in slow motion when one is analyzing it, there are places where the club "jumps" from position to position. 120 fps is better, but is still not perfect. Video shot at 30 fps is a disaster. Everything looks blurred. 

 

In a game this we'll have to live with the limitations of the new consoles. 

 

Sometimes it's an industry standard. For example the movie industry still uses 24 fps when higher frame rates are available with modern techniques.

[Andrew Lucas]

Anyone who believes 60fps will ever become a standard for console gaming are deluding themselves. Perhaps if the cloud ever becomes a thing and computer hardware becomes flexible and virtually upgradable, but no, really. From day 1 developers are already pushing the hardware limits. Then as a generation goes along they find ways to more effectively use the hardware, which usually means certain sacrifices. As pretty as Mass Effect 3 is, I can point to a series of technical things that ME1 did better which they needed to cut out to make ME3 look better overall.
 
It's going to be locked 30fps. It will never go above that but it may even go beyond sometimes.

No, new technologies are created within new generation of consoles, old methods become more accessible, and all of that adds to a console that is never meant to be high-end, but accessible to the masses. We could already have 4K consoles, but the price would also get more Ks, and it would cost the same as a high-pricey- end PC, and that's not the route the console industry wants to pursue.

1080P, on paper, is the new standard for the 8th gen, and even if there already is a considerable amount of AAA games that runs at 60 frames on this gen, the next one it will become a normal thing, as it always have been.

So yeah, Andromeda could run at 60FPS, it's not impossible, MGSV did such thing at 1080P/upscaled on consoles and it looked hella good, but knowing Bioware, I doubt they would put a huge effort into optimizing their games into the limit.

[goishen]

Framerate has nothing to do with speed. It's about the smoothness and fluidity of the animation, not how fast it is.

 

It's not a matter of elitism, it's objective fact that higher framerate makes for smoother and more fluid animations, as well as cleaner gameplay. It's not only what you see with your eyes, it's also how the game feels when being played. It's not "elitist" to also understand that the Earth is round and that water is wet.

 

 

That's fine.  Let's have you stand in that batters box with someone zipping 100mph zingers past you.   If you can spot a ball's threads while it is motion, that's great, I'll give you $5.  If you can hit one, I'll give you $10.  Then I'll tell you that you should being playing baseball, not video games.

 

And water is wet and the earth is round, and fact after fact after fact after fact.  You claim that the human eye can see up to 225 frames per second, prove it.  Go into something that requires that kind'a precision.  But don't sit here and berate us for not being able to see what you want us to see.

[greenbrownblue]

Discuss. But know this. If console versions run at 30fps again, the PC race will end up with the same enhanced higher polygon graphics, only at 60fps.

Booooh, consoles! Slowing down the development of the gaming industry. Booooh!

[o Ventus]

That's fine.  Let's have you stand in that batters box with someone zipping 100mph zingers past you.   If you can spot a ball's threads while it is motion, that's great, I'll give you $5.  If you can hit one, I'll give you $10.  Then I'll tell you that you should being playing baseball, not video games.

 

And water is wet and the earth is round, and fact after fact after fact after fact.  You claim that the human eye can see up to 225 frames per second, prove it.  Go into something that requires that kind'a precision.  But don't sit here and berate us for not being able to see what you want us to see.

 

I don't know why you keep trying to use this baseball analogy, it has nothing to do with what I'm saying. I don't think you know what framerate actually is or how it works. It's not about speed or detail, it's about fluidity and smoothness of motion.

 

You are literally arguing something that is NOT the topic. If you seem to think that framerate isn't very important, then go and play any first-person game at 30 fps, then again at 60 fps and note the difference in the animation quality. It's not about speed, it's not about being able to "see the threads" on a baseball, it's more frames being rendered per individual second, so the animation is less jerky and more fluid like natural motion.

 

And again, it's not just animation quality, there's tangible gameplay benefits to playing at a higher framerate. You'll have less input lag, meaning your controls will be more responsive and you will generally play the game better.

 

Also, you're arguing against established science. You asking me to "prove" this is like asking me to prove that the tectonic plates move, or that gravity is what keeps us tethered to the Earth.