47 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

Default states are generally the ones with the fewest loose ends.  

[Marshal Moriarty]

I thought this issue was settled? The 'Your choices matter' thing is a joke in terms of substantive, meaningful content. And there's no way to prevent that really, because without decades of development time and a budget that would bankrupt small countries, you could never account for even quite small choices again and again and again over multiple games. Add in that the more time passes, the less people have played all the games and the expense and time (not to mention the pressure on all writers new and established on the team, to stay on top on *all* the continuity for everything new they intend to write about...)

 

The choices in Bioware games are a cosmetic thing, that when bundled together across a playthough of the games, gives the illusion of meaningful choices made and respected. It shatters on contact, because it can never be more than small references, brief cameos or interchangeable superficial differences etc, but if you work with the game on that, it does let you experience a world that looks and feels like it 'should' based on what you have been choosing thus far.

 

And that's really all you can expect. Bioware have stressed many times that its hard enough work just to maintain that level of continuity. The fact is that choices and which character lives etc, only really can work in a meaningful and satisfactory way within the confines of a single game, where the writers have some control over the shape the game will take based on your choices. But when you try to then take that into another game, and add it all the variables in that new game (which necessarily will always take precedence and priority for the writers, because its the new product), then the house of cards is only ever seconds away from total collapse.

 

At some point, people are going to have to accept that there is simply no way they can account for characters who could have died in a way that will be satisfying to those who want substantive content with those characters. Also, the new game will always take top priority, and older games (even the most recent ones) are at the mercy of whether the writers feel it would be worth the time and effort to reuse characters and content. New gamers are getting into this hobby every couple of seconds - people who haven;t played the old games, and many probably won't now. There is only so long that Bioware can keep allocating time and resources to accounting for games that are over 5 years old.

 

Their main priority will always be 'How can we make the maxiumum number of new players buy this game?' and 'How can we meet the needs of this game's plot and characters?' Content from older games simply isn't as important as those things.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I thought this issue was settled? The 'Your choices matter' thing is a joke in terms of substantive, meaningful content. And there's no way to prevent that really, because without decades of development time and a budget that would bankrupt small countries, you could never account for even quite small choices again and again and again over multiple games. Add in that the more time passes, the less people have played all the games and the expense and time (not to mention the pressure on all writers new and established on the team, to stay on top on *all* the continuity for everything new they intend to write about...)

 

The choices in Bioware games are a cosmetic thing, that when bundled together across a playthough of the games, gives the illusion of meaningful choices made and respected. It shatters on contact, because it can never be more than small references, brief cameos or interchangeable superficial differences etc, but if you work with the game on that, it does let you experience a world that looks and feels like it 'should' based on what you have been choosing thus far.

 

And that's really all you can expect. Bioware have stressed many times that its hard enough work just to maintain that level of continuity. The fact is that choices and which character lives etc, only really can work in a meaningful and satisfactory way within the confines of a single game, where the writers have some control over the shape the game will take based on your choices. But when you try to then take that into another game, and add it all the variables in that new game (which necessarily will always take precedence and priority for the writers, because its the new product), then the house of cards is only ever seconds away from total collapse.

 

At some point, people are going to have to accept that there is simply no way they can account for characters who could have died in a way that will be satisfying to those who want substantive content with those characters. Also, the new game will always take top priority, and older games (even the most recent ones) are at the mercy of whether the writers feel it would be worth the time and effort to reuse characters and content. New gamers are getting into this hobby every couple of seconds - people who haven;t played the old games, and many probably won't now. There is only so long that Bioware can keep allocating time and resources to accounting for games that are over 5 years old.

 

Their main priority will always be 'How can we make the maxiumum number of new players buy this game?' and 'How can we meet the needs of this game's plot and characters?' Content from older games simply isn't as important as those things.

 

I would argue with that , Mass Effect import (at least ME-ME 3) was somewhat decent, even if far from prefect and had its flaws your choices from previous games had consequences that affected side quests, or even main quests. It is just Dragon Age devs doesn't seem to capable enough to work with import and do such things like unnecessarily forcing characters from previous games into new ones (like Anders ,Oghren and Leliana) and needless to say that is isn't very smart of them considering there was no need for them to bring them back. 

 

That is reason i don't get why they even bother with import in dragon age if they enforce same outcomes for everyone and choices doesn't matter in any other way than cosmetic, all that just consumes considerable amount of resources and time that could go on something productive and would make it better game. Truth is they should just go with canon.

[Rogue Unit]

I think the bigger concern is that they are getting rid of the primary protagonists in all worldstates by writing them out of the story. The Hero is scheduled to return by the end of Trespasser. They can't just keep writing excuses for the Hero forever. If DA4 snubs the Hero, I won't buy the game. Hawke's status is virtually the same. Could be dead, but if not then back in the Free Marches. No reason the Hero and Champion can't be featured, especially with all that is currently at stake. Especially with Leliana having possible connection to the Hero, and Varric having connection with the Champion.

Hero is dead. We are 7 years and 3 games past DAO. Jump in the hole before they cover it with dirt.

[greenbrownblue]

i was looking on the default word state 
in da2  . warden from dao did the sacrifice 
in da inq . hawk is the one that stay in the fade .
da4  inquisitor will die 

Lol, perhaps Romeo and Juliet story for Solasmancers !?

[Abyss108]

I would argue with that , Mass Effect import (at least ME-ME 3) was somewhat decent, even if far from prefect and had its flaws your choices from previous games had consequences that affected side quests, or even main quests. It is just Dragon Age devs doesn't seem to capable enough to work with import and do such things like unnecessarily forcing characters from previous games into new ones (like Anders ,Oghren and Leliana) and needless to say that is isn't very smart of them considering there was no need for them to bring them back. 

 

That is reason i don't get why they even bother with import in dragon age if they enforce same outcomes for everyone and choices doesn't matter in any other way than cosmetic, all that just consumes considerable amount of resources and time that could go on something productive and would make it better game. Truth is they should just go with canon.

 

Which Mass Effect choices had an impact? All I remember was if you let a character die, they would be replaced by another character with the same role. Everyone still got to exactly the same ending with zero difference.

[dsl08002]

I think the bigger concern is that they are getting rid of the primary protagonists in all worldstates by writing them out of the story. The Hero is scheduled to return by the end of Trespasser. They can't just keep writing excuses for the Hero forever. If DA4 snubs the Hero, I won't buy the game. Hawke's status is virtually the same. Could be dead, but if not then back in the Free Marches. No reason the Hero and Champion can't be featured, especially with all that is currently at stake. Especially with Leliana having possible connection to the Hero, and Varric having connection with the Champion.

My biggest irritation is that bioware never really thought it through how to include or exclude previous PC. First and foremost its the ending of DA2 where you get the distinct impression that it was going to be a joint adventure with the duo of HoF and champion. But when bioware relized what they actually have done they couldnt think of a better explanation then to say it was a coincidence. Then its the cure part, they couldnt explain that one either. Then its hawke no real explanation there either.

So bioware if you have previous characters think real hard and in long term what you are going to do.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Which Mass Effect choices had an impact? All I remember was if you let a character die, they would be replaced by another character with the same role. Everyone still got to exactly the same ending with zero difference.

You have to remember little

Spoiler

-)Wrex being dead or alive changes style of leadership among Krogans it also allowed you to fool Krogans if Wrex is dead or you can lose help of Krogans if Wrex is alive and you tried to trick them. You can convince Mordin to not die and important character may die depending on what you did in previous game.

 

-)You may lose chance of peace between Geths and Quarians depending on your choices from previous games

.

 

There is a good number of such situations be it in main quest or side quests.

[Addictress]

Dragon Age Avengers assembled. 

*pounds fist* I WILL SAY IT AGAIN, this is the perfect time to do multiple-controlled protagonists! You could control both Ciri and Geralt. So why can't we switch between controlling Hawke, HoF, and Inquisitor in DA4?? And if one of them is dead, then so be it. They already write the previous games accounting for the fact someone is dead and could do so here as well.

 

Too Avengers-y?

[Dai Grepher]

My biggest irritation is that bioware never really thought it through how to include or exclude previous PC. First and foremost its the ending of DA2 where you get the distinct impression that it was going to be a joint adventure with the duo of HoF and champion. But when bioware relized what they actually have done they couldnt think of a better explanation then to say it was a coincidence. Then its the cure part, they couldnt explain that one either. Then its hawke no real explanation there either.

So bioware if you have previous characters think real hard and in long term what you are going to do.

 

Yes, and it's worse than that actually. Leliana outright says that both the Hero and Champion suddenly disappearing can't be coincidence, which as you wrote implied that they were roped into the same events. And yet Leliana can know where the Hero was the whole time if they were in a romance! Even in my worldstate where my Cousland became king and married Anora, Leliana was still a good friend, and she could have easily gone to Denerim to ask Anora where the Hero was, which I think she did, but still concealed the Hero's location and reason for being gone.

 

Before Inquisition I thought that the Hero and Champion were connected through a new adventure. I theorized that it had to do with the Forbidden Ones, as both the Hero and Champion can fight one each, and are seen by them regardless. But no, the Hero's location and reason for disappearing were known, and the Champion did not disappear at all. Varric was only lying about it.

[CoM Solaufein]

They can try but will fail. No one rids my Inky. I like the Inquisitor more than my HoF.

[ShadowLordXII]

Which Mass Effect choices had an impact? All I remember was if you let a character die, they would be replaced by another character with the same role. Everyone still got to exactly the same ending with zero difference.

 

At least the Mass Effect Series is more internally consistent compared to Dragon Age's constant retconning and rebooting in between each game.

[Scofield]

Shoulda got rid of save game import years ago an contained player choice to the relevant game an just went with there own canon for each game

[almasy87]

Default ≠ Canon...

 

Default = most basic

Just my 2 cents
 

[Amne YA]

hi folks . thanks for all of you . 
and also i m not just talking about the default word state but in general . they are getting rid of them in a way or another even if you manage to keep them a live .
the next game they put them far away or  make a choice where they die . 
what i m trying to say that they cant continue the story with so  much  choices . choices from origin / from da2 / from inquisition . 
so they try to make them disapear 

[Mistic]

Hero is dead. We are 7 years and 3 games past DAO. Jump in the hole before they cover it with dirt.

 

Actually, we're 12 years past DA:O. But yeah, it helps your point even more.

 

I think that's another reason they want Tevinter for the next game. It's literally on the other side of the continent, and the evident conflict (the Qunari invasion) has nothing to do with the Hero of Ferelden and only a little with Hawke. And it has even least to do with the secret conflict, apparently (that our player meta-gaming skills teach us that there will be a link doesn't mean the characters have to see it too). Good excuses not to see them.

 

hi folks . thanks for all of you . 
and also i m not just talking about the default word state but in general . they are getting rid of them in a way or another even if you manage to keep them a live .
the next game they put them far away or  make a choice where they die . 
what i m trying to say that they cant continue the story with so  much  choices . choices from origin / from da2 / from inquisition . 
so they try to make them disapear 

 

From a writing perspective, I understand why Bioware is trying to cut off the branches. It doesn't have to be their deaths; the Inquisitor losing a hand makes him or her quit serious adventuring. However, by allowing the protagonists to die, Bioware has the justification they need not to use them in future games except as cameos or guest party members (in the most optimistic scenario): because you can't make a game revolve around a character that may be dead for many players (at this point they won't try Awakening's "suddenly alive" retcon again).

[diaspora2k5]

I think the bigger concern is that they are getting rid of the primary protagonists in all worldstates by writing them out of the story. The Hero is scheduled to return by the end of Trespasser. They can't just keep writing excuses for the Hero forever. If DA4 snubs the Hero, I won't buy the game. Hawke's status is virtually the same. Could be dead, but if not then back in the Free Marches. No reason the Hero and Champion can't be featured, especially with all that is currently at stake. Especially with Leliana having possible connection to the Hero, and Varric having connection with the Champion.

The hero has moved on, why can't you?

[Dai Grepher]

Actually, we're 12 years past DA:O. But yeah, it helps your point even more.

 

I think that's another reason they want Tevinter for the next game. It's literally on the other side of the continent, and the evident conflict (the Qunari invasion) has nothing to do with the Hero of Ferelden and only a little with Hawke. And it has even least to do with the secret conflict, apparently (that our player meta-gaming skills teach us that there will be a link doesn't mean the characters have to see it too). Good excuses not to see them.

 

But Weisshaupt is near Tevinter, and Hawke was said to have been there, or perhaps still is there. Also, since the Hero is returning to southern Thedas, the logical place to visit first would be Weisshaupt in order to check in with the Wardens or deliver the cure, or at least discuss it. At which point they will find out what has been going on with the order since leaving for the cure quest. And the Inquisitor will certainly want their help in fighting Solas since they have proven to be highly skilled and capable.

[Dai Grepher]

The hero has moved on, why can't you?

 

...yet neither does anyone think his tale is complete...
 

[PhroXenGold]

...yet neither does anyone think his tale is complete...
 

 

Of course the Hero's tale is complete. She's dead.

[Dai Grepher]

Of course the Hero's tale is complete. She's dead.

 

Kind of hard for that to be the case, since that quote was from Awakening.

[BSpud]

It's over, Johnny. It's over!

[Mistic]

But Weisshaupt is near Tevinter, and Hawke was said to have been there, or perhaps still is there. Also, since the Hero is returning to southern Thedas, the logical place to visit first would be Weisshaupt in order to check in with the Wardens or deliver the cure, or at least discuss it. At which point they will find out what has been going on with the order since leaving for the cure quest. And the Inquisitor will certainly want their help in fighting Solas since they have proven to be highly skilled and capable.

 

Trespasser's epilogue pretty much states that, if Hawke is alive, they go back to Kirkwall to help Varric long before DA4 may start. And the dwarf is another good example: no one can say that Varric is selfish, or unheroic, or that he hasn't seen the world (Varric has been in Tevinter, actually), but what he really wants is to settle down in Kirkwall, be with his friends and take care of his city. He's seen enough "weird s***" for a lifetime. Is it so hard to imagine Hawke wishing for a similar thing? As for the Hero, epilogues with him or her in a relationship with Leliana have them already in the South, so whatever visit they made to Weisshaupt, it's over before DA4 too.

 

The Inquisitor will probably help, and I don't even rule out a cameo in DA4, but likely as a mentor character, or quest giver, or something like that. I think it's better to imagine the protagonist in DA4 as one of those agents or important characters from the War Room missions. The Inquisitor has to monitor all of Thedas; he or she can (and does) send people to fight wars without moving from that room.

 

But of course, this is just speculation. DA:I teaches us that speculation based on DA2's ending meant little.