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[SNascimento]

... the glory of civilization? That is, man-made structures. Impossible feats of engineering and the likes.

Although I believe you should tread lightely when looking at Dragon Age Inquisition to try and see some Mass Effect Andromeda there, it's also difficult to ignore it. And when it comes to scenery, Inquisition really nailed it when it came to natural barren places. But villages and cities? They were very few and not very well made.

We know Andromeda will have a focus on exploration. And I'm confident we will have a lot of planets and places that will highlight the glory of space. But when it comes to structures, cities, space stations, I'm not that confident. And I think that is integral to create a great universe. The original trilogy did a good job, the Cidatel and Omega for example became iconic places of the ME universe, but in this generation we need more!

Clearly the scope of the planets we will explore will be massive, so the "hubs" have to be huge as well, without sacrificing the artstyle and attention to details. Be it cities, space stations or remote outposts. Mind you, I'm not saying every planet should have this kind of things, or at least not in a significant number. Being alone in vast empty place is what exploration in space is about, but Bioware cannot forget the glory of civilization!

What you guys think?
 

[Chardonney]

Agreed, 100%.

[Commandr_Shepard]

I always loved how Omega was in ME2 & 3.

[SNascimento]

Also, on a side note. I hope it's the races of the galaxy that builds those things. I would rather have the greatest stations and cities being 100% the product of the races that live in them than the legacy of some ancient super advanced alien race.

 

[ZipZap2000]

Agreed.

[Lady Artifice]

This is my biggest concern with this game. I could easily imagine the explorable areas being almost entirely wilderness. They'll be disconnected from the civilization and resources in the Milky Way, and that could mean that a lot of the excesses that come with a civilization at the height of it's power might be absent.

 

I'll just miss the decadent politics, nightclubs, casinos, shady business dealings, and criminal society parties if they don't turn up again. 

[Fade9wayz]

I have the same concerns, compounded by the fact I don't like open worlds, not even the Witcher 3 can make me like them (I much more preferred the Witcher 2). With open worlds, the main story gets diluted in endless/pointless fetch quests, removing any urgency in the obsessive impulse to erase all interrogation point markers on the map (I guess I could ignore them, but sadly that's not how I work. Everything must be identified, but I still lose sight of the main plot, which annoys me, especially when NPCs insist that your main quest is supposedly urgent).

I'd rather they strentghen the main story line in something a bit more directional, and have main hubs of existing civilisations to explore. That's what will drive it into us that we've arrived in a brand new world. If we're just going to drive around wild or barren patches of planets with randomly spawned creatures, it's going to get boring pretty fast and it wasn't worth setting it in Andromeda. The Witcher 3 is saved by the funny trolls and an admittedly good main plot with the main NPCs being fairly interesting, but I didn't find the main plot in DAI all that engaging and the boss was uninteresting at best. Romances and compulsively exploring every cm3 of a map only hold a very passing interest for me, so in the end I was left with a very bland game that wasn't even saved by its MP and gameplay. Needless to say I uninstalled it pretty fast, while I still have ME3 installed. For its multiplayer, granted, but I still think rather fondly of the SP. I'm very much afraid, frankly, that MEA is going down the same way as DAI. 

 

Open worlds to explore are just filler for a lack of truly scenarised content.

[ThomasBlaine]

Agreed. It'd be nice to have a bit more humanity and civilization and a bit less running through deserted colonies looking for survivors and clues. The whole concept of the "ark" is an ambitious and very much optimistic idea, taking great chances, looking for fresh starts and building new lives in places you've claimed and cultivated for yourself rather than inherited from hundreds of previous generations. Exploration is only a tiny part of that. One way or another, Andromeda should definitely be a story about people as much as exotic locations.

 

On a somewhat related note, my absolute highest hope for ME: Andromeda is some really awesome first contact scenarios dealing among other things with the choice of whether or not to uplift less advanced species, or interfere with cultures that have developed in horrible directions. There's so much roleplaying and sci-fi gold in the new premise, turning it into just another straight fantasy story or new stage for old feuds would be disappointing.

[Linkenski]

I'm confident Mass Effect Andromeda will be a retread of exactly the same kinds of issues I had with DA:I despite Bioware claiming otherwise.

 

The big things that just didn't work for me in DA:I:

1. The exploration. I don't hate exploration. I just couldn't care for the way DA:I did it. Go out and check some boxes.
2. "Emerging narrative" and figuring out how to make interactive narrative outside of just cinematics. This is one area that actively kept the exploration from being good. Witcher 3 proves Bioware wrong by making plenty of cinematic quests work within its open-world environments. I don't exactly get what was the problem for Bioware here, since the new guys made it look easy.

These two elements are the exact same ideas the dev team has been pushing for ME:A and therefore I have no reason to be excited. They can take the aspects of DA:I and improve them based on the feedback they got but are they really going to? As far as I'm concerned their new approach to making narrative interactive in DA:I aside from the dialogue-wheel having TONS of options (which is a treat!) does not even have any potential. It's a complete regression from the cinematic dialogue they had all the way from ME1 and DA:O up until ME3. Mac mentioned they're trying to find ways to not always make it cinematically driven for ME:A but we have two games now, DA:I and ME3 that both just prove to me that Bioware isn't unto something by trying to break free of cinematic dialogue. They are being proactive about making their games play less entertaining to play. There's nothing entertaining about two characters standing face to face with no cinematography and no movement aside from stretching their arms or really passive non-verbality. I couldn't even see the face of the characters I was talking to in either game whenver it was non-cinematic.

 

NB: I mention point one as someone who's played better exploration-driven games like GTA, Skyrim, The Witcher 3 and alike. Bioware, you have a strength and it's called narrative, character-driven stories and fun action gameplay in an RPG. Emphasize your strengths instead of overshooting by taking on areas you can't compete in. Point two: While there is a group of mainstreams and hipsters who's discovered the terms "Emerging narrative" and "environmental storytelling" as if it's a new thing, you always got that down. No need to deemphasize your strengths by overemphasizing that instead. For the record, The Last of Us's attempt at environmental storytelling includes grafitti on walls saying "Please, don't let me die!" and stupid stuff like that. There's nothing worth celebrating or copying from there.

 

 

In regards to the glory of civilization this leaves me hopeful: 

and this 

 

 

I'm not gonna lie. This is the extent of civilization I expect from ME:A. That Citadel-esque area we've seen might not even be that big. It's most likely gonna be yet another Val Royeaux or Citadel ME3 where it's all window-dressing.

[SNascimento]

About The Witcher 3 cinematics, it's worth noting that most of them were very, very simple. With extreme limited range of animations. With Inquisition Bioware decided that instead of doing those simple cutscenes they would just let let the two character face each other, presumably so they can use the resources elswhere. I much prefer this if the result are better cutscenes elsewhere.

[AresKeith]

I can definitely see most of the hubs involving the MW species, and if the rumor that we're only gonna be exploring a cluster then it kinda makes sense

Though if we do run in Andromeda civilizations, I can also see that happening later in the game

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Bioware has already said there will be civilizations in the next game. They even showed a couple pieces of concept art about a city of a new alien race. 

 

[BennyORWO]

I can't imagine to be enemy with a race that has such a beautiful homeworld.

[von uber]

Basically we need more Illium.

[AresKeith]

Basically we need more Illium.

I so hope a Colony does that

[Balsam Beige]

About The Witcher 3 cinematics, it's worth noting that most of them were very, very simple. With extreme limited range of animations. With Inquisition Bioware decided that instead of doing those simple cutscenes they would just let let the two character face each other, presumably so they can use the resources elswhere. I much prefer this if the result are better cutscenes elsewhere.

If true, I would prefer them to get the resources to do the cinematics cutscenes throughout the game. I hated the way they did it in dai. EA should be able to afford it. If not, I say kick-start it. I wouldn't mind a delay either, if it meant cinematic cutscenes throughout.

[Killroy]

I think it would be silly if we had a bunch of established hub worlds built and bustling in this game. Things like that take time and having them immediately(and inexplicably) would basically run counter to the stated goal of exploration and wonderment. 

What would make the most sense would be the Ark acting as the primary hub and Citadel equivalent with smaller hubs established and dominated by native Andromedans. 

[capn233]

I so hope a Colony does that

 

Yeah I want to short prefabs.

[Jaquio]

In the entirety of the ME and DA franchies, the closest we got to feeling like we were actually in a "city" was the Citadel in ME1.  That is the oldest of those six games.

 

Compare the ME1 Citadel experience (complete with elevator times that felt like actual travel was taking place), to that of the "majesty" of Val Royeaux in DAI.  The reality is that the direction BW is going doesn't work well for cities.  Hell, the Citadel managed to feel smaller and smaller in each successive ME game.

 

So I expect virtually nothing in terms of proper civilization, except for some set-piece heavy scenes in tiny cubicles walled off by insta-travel loading screens.

[capn233]

Yes, ME1 Citadel did feel large.  The ability to walk to everywhere probably was a part of it, although you had rapid transit if you wanted to save some time.

[Killroy]

Hell, the Citadel managed to feel smaller and smaller in each successive ME game.

 

I think you're forgetting how tiny and segmented the Citadel was in ME2. It was much larger in ME3. Easily twice the size.

[SNascimento]

As I mentioned in the topic, it can't be scale without attention to details and a great art style. That was the case with ME1's citadel. It was bigger than the citadel area from ME2 and ME3, true enough, but it lacked soul. That can't be the case with Andromeda. 

[SNascimento]

Bioware has already said there will be civilizations in the next game. They even showed a couple pieces of concept art about a city of a new alien race. 

 

I didn't mean to imply I don't think there will be civilizations in ME:A, only that I'm looking foward to how Bioware will handle the infrastructure that comes with a civilization, be it cities, military outposts, roads, space elevators, etc... if Andromeda wants to be a top tier RPG, I dare say it will have to deliver in those aspects. 

Also, thanks for the first pic. I don't think I had seen it. When was it released?

[Medhia_Nox]

... the glory of civilization? That is, man-made structures. Impossible feats of engineering and the likes.

Although I believe you should tread lightely when looking at Dragon Age Inquisition to try and see some Mass Effect Andromeda there, it's also difficult to ignore it. And when it comes to scenery, Inquisition really nailed it when it came to natural barren places. But villages and cities? They were very few and not very well made.

We know Andromeda will have a focus on exploration. And I'm confident we will have a lot of planets and places that will highlight the glory of space. But when it comes to structures, cities, space stations, I'm not that confident. And I think that is integral to create a great universe. The original trilogy did a good job, the Cidatel and Omega for example became iconic places of the ME universe, but in this generation we need more!

Clearly the scope of the planets we will explore will be massive, so the "hubs" have to be huge as well, without sacrificing the artstyle and attention to details. Be it cities, space stations or remote outposts. Mind you, I'm not saying every planet should have this kind of things, or at least not in a significant number. Being alone in vast empty place is what exploration in space is about, but Bioware cannot forget the glory of civilization!

What you guys think?
 

 

Well, aside from thinking there is precious little that is "glorious" about civilization...

 

I think this game "should" be on the very fringes of the Andromeda galaxy far removed for now from whatever holds dominance over the galaxy proper. 

I'm down with space stations... and frontier stations... etc., but I think you're looking for sweeping Coruscant-type world cities.  I'd actually prefer to have this more frontier. 

 

NOTE:  Natural places are not "barren"... you're confused between a city and a forest.  I'll just chalk it up to a vast ideological chasm we won't be finding common ground across.

[SwobyJ]

Cities is for ME5. This 'gen' of Bioware games is all about the open spaces mannn.