484 réponses à ce sujet

[Biotic Apostate]

^ Well, as displeased as I am with such things, I can see how gay players would feel personally attacked by such postings, so I think ignoring it in that case takes a different sort of restraint. I've seen you go back and forth with people with far more patience than I possess.

 

One of the problems I have is that it sometimes feels that if I get fed up and stop replying that the person will think that they've "won," which is a terrible thought. I only stopped posting in the thread when other people started stepping in. Witch Cocktor and I held him off until other people started waking up and logging on! Yay us! XD Then it got locked... Just as well, really.

Honestly, I'm really disappointed that it got locked, because he finished triumphantly... The "I wouldn't be bothered if a homosexual friend said he's disgusted by my sexuality" point was so weak, because it never happened, and the reverse happened so many times to me.

 

I don't know, if I seemed patient (thanks anyway!), the "homosexuality is defined by actions" point he made really struck a nerve for me. I try to avoid taking part, because like you've said, once you stop, they think you lost.

[Biotic Apostate]

While I don't agree with that sentiment, one can't deny the influence of social media sites like Tumblr, and their toxicity. I've actually attempted to welcome people into the friendly Dorian thread who were concerned about this sort of thing. I don't say that they have an influence on Bioware, but they do have an influence on other fans, and there are elements on there that make the entire DA fandom look very bad. And honestly, the sheer venom with which some of those users attack some people is horrendous.

I observed tumblr a little, and it seems to be a miniature of the internet. There are some toxic people, some stupid and misinformed posts. But also a lot of good humor, great art, some cool facts sites, and specific interests ones. Depending on where you start, you can see the best of tumblr, or the worst of it. Because of how tumblr works (reblogs and follows), the ugly side can morph into this one giant ugly thing. But that is true for any website. Tumblr may be the birthplace of the SJWs, but honestly, any social website has bred its own hate group. What I learned from tumblr is that horribly malicious people exist on the whole political spectrum. But that is the product of our times, not a website. Liberal views are trendy right now, people follow them without really thinking what that means, and then we get such stupidity like "learning sign language is culture appropriation" or that "organizing tea ceremonies is racist" while multiple Japanese people respond that they actually like to see their culture spread and to see others so respectfully take part in it.

If not on tumblr then they would have found another place to be unbearable.

[nightscrawl]

^ What really saddens me about the whole Tumblr thing is that that is some DA players' only exposure to the DA fandom, particularly the negative side of it. I really don't understand how some of those those players have avoided coming to the BSN at all. As bad as it can get here, I think there have some really great, thought provoking discussion threads over the years, and the character threads in particular are mostly safe havens from most of the other stuff. Reblogs are so one-sided that it can easily devolve into a poster wittingly (or unwittingly) sicking an entire pack of piranha on someone.
 
It can also make one question or doubt themselves in a really negative way, such as, "As a straight woman, do I have a right to write about Dorian in a sexual context?" or, "Am I treating him like a sex object by writing a sex scene with him? (Even if it's a small part of the sum total of one's writing)," or, "Am I unwittingly playing into negative tropes or unintentionally feminizing him?" and similar things. I've had a bit of problem with the last one and have rewritten, and still question, scenes because of it. I do not say this looking for a sympathy reply, but as another example. I have also seen players state that a certain "ship" or discussion topic has been "ruined" for them by the fandom (not applicable to me, as I don't "ship" anyone).
 
But I do agree that there is some great stuff on there, particularly in the way of art and other fan creations, and the positive stuff is often overlooked in favor of the vocal minority. I don't actually believe that a great percentage of the stuff on Tumblr is negative -- rather neutral or positive -- but it is what gets more play and has contributed to Tumblr's overall reputation.
 
I restrict my Tumblr followings to a very small group (currently only eight people), and use the Firefox extension xkit to avoid tags I don't want to see. I haven't actually seen any negative stuff in a very long time because I've made a particular effort to avoid it. I used to follow the blog Dragon Age Confessions, and in fact the majority of my initial Tumblr postings are reblogs (and replies) of that, but it got to be so negative that I unfollowed after a while.
 
Er... enough about Tumblr...
 
 
On a more humorous note, David Gaider linked this on Twitter: The True Impact of SJWs on Game Development.



[edit]
In retrospect, I probably shouldn't have written some of this stuff as I try to not over-personalize such posts, but I have to let it stand now.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 22 février 2016 - 08:07 .

[Biotic Apostate]

snip

This is a much more complicated subject and not for here, but I think a little doubt is good. It means those people care about not feeding into stereotypes. The fact is that there is a lot material treating gay men like objects or stereotypes. I don't want people to stop doing what they are doing like in the first question, but some caution when approaching the subject is welcome. The gay KISA thread is a good example of good people (in this case, BW) unintentionally falling into a stereotype. Of course the doubt should not come after reading those stupid tumblr posts accusing everyone of doing everything wrong.

 

And I've seen passionate dissertations on DA lore on tumblr too. Again, point of approach has meaning. A BW fan who starts with BSN from the Andromeda forum will also think this place is terrible. I mean we are in the venting thread in a private group for a reason.

 

I wonder how the Anders thread looks like here. On tumblr the tag is a real minefield...

 

Also, the graph is just too real. I've seen friends design games in pairs (IT degree), and they have huge fights over content. Managing a good release with 700 people and so much overhead is an achievement. HOTFIX!

 

Edit:

Huh they didn't even lock that trans protagonist thread, it's just gone.

[nightscrawl]

This is a much more complicated subject and not for here, but I think a little doubt is good. It means those people care about not feeding into stereotypes.

Yepper, you are right on both counts.

 

 

As for character threads, on the BSN they usually devolve over time to excessive postings of fan works. Happily, the Dorian thread has mostly escaped that and occasionally falls to the second page because there is nothing new to discuss unless some new person comes around. I mean, fan work postings aren't bad, and I like art** of my favorite person as much as anyone else, but I'm much more interested in talking about them.
 
I never posted on the forums for DAO and only really started for DA2. One thing that was a deterrent, regardless of whether I liked the person, especially in the height of posting, was that they move very quickly, so you can easily lose track of a topic or conversation. But from what I've observed, most people seem to understand that the threads are primarily a place for the people who like the character. There is discussion, but you won't get the thoughtless vitriol that some other threads have. All of the negative "Omfg Anders hit on me," and, "I was so happy I finally got to kill that terrorist," types of posts were reserved for the general romance or mage/templar topics.

 

I recall that you like Anders. You might appreciate these three posts (refresh if they don't load correctly), all contain quotes by his writer, Jennifer Hepler. These really changed my view of him over time. While I'm not crazy about him as a person, I think he is a fantastic, tragic character, and very well written, with a ton of depth. I actually like that they went with the shift from DAA to DA2 and have never had a problem with his various changes. Hah the most annoying thing about it for me is the timeline discrepancy!

 

 

** There have been very little fic recs from my observation as a frequent poster since the 600s or so, a huge contrast to the Cullen and Solas threads.

[Biotic Apostate]

snip

Yeah I've noticed the problem to keep some threads alive. The badass gay character one is going basically in circles now.

 

It's good to hear character threads are a better place. My problem with the DA2 ones was that by the time I finished the game, had time to think about it, and went to BSN, the threads were already huge, and I didn't really see a way in. Also, as you've mentioned, they move very fast.

 

Thanks for the links! I've seen snippets of them, never the full versions, so thanks for that. DA2 and its companions is what sold me on DA, I liked Origins, but it's the second game that got me passionate about the series. Anders as a character is really important to me, I'm always glad to see some calm discussion about him.

[Steelcan]

What was his deal? 

oh lordy where to begin

[HuldraDancer]

I always get pains or sores in the worst damn spots where it hurts to do anything heck even typing with both hands hurts like hell. I'll be happy when whatever this is goes away.

[Lady Artifice]

oh lordy where to begin

 

Surely he couldn't have been weirder than BabyPuncher David.

[Lady Artifice]

I always get pains or sores in the worst damn spots where it hurts to do anything heck even typing with both hands hurts like hell. I'll be happy when whatever this is goes away.

 

I'm so sorry to hear that Huldra.

 

Have you talked to the Doctor?

[Lady Artifice]

May I have a link to the Weekes interview thread? I haven't been keeping up.

 

You have an aesthetics thread??

 

Going back to this, yes, and some of the pictures in it are really cool.

[Biotic Apostate]

Surely he couldn't have been weirder than BabyPuncher David.

Patrick Weekes interview thread

Also, I'm confused about the trolls, are Bunz, BabyPuncher, and the gramps all one person, like the three Talis?

[Lady Artifice]

^ What really saddens me about the whole Tumblr thing is that that is some DA players' only exposure to the DA fandom, particularly the negative side of it. I really don't understand how some of those those players have avoided coming to the BSN at all. As bad as it can get here, I think there have some really great, thought provoking discussion threads over the years, and the character threads in particular are mostly safe havens from most of the other stuff. Reblogs are so one-sided that it can easily devolve into a poster wittingly (or unwittingly) sicking an entire pack of piranha on someone.
 
It can also make one question or doubt themselves in a really negative way, such as, "As a straight woman, do I have a right to write about Dorian in a sexual context?" or, "Am I treating him like a sex object by writing a sex scene with him? (Even if it's a small part of the sum total of one's writing)," or, "Am I unwittingly playing into negative tropes or unintentionally feminizing him?" and similar things. I've had a bit of problem with the last one and have rewritten, and still question, scenes because of it. I do not say this looking for a sympathy reply, but as another example. I have also seen players state that a certain "ship" or discussion topic has been "ruined" for them by the fandom (not applicable to me, as I don't "ship" anyone).
 
But I do agree that there is some great stuff on there, particularly in the way of art and other fan creations, and the positive stuff is often overlooked in favor of the vocal minority. I don't actually believe that a great percentage of the stuff on Tumblr is negative -- rather neutral or positive -- but it is what gets more play and has contributed to Tumblr's overall reputation.
 
I restrict my Tumblr followings to a very small group (currently only eight people), and use the Firefox extension xkit to avoid tags I don't want to see. I haven't actually seen any negative stuff in a very long time because I've made a particular effort to avoid it. I used to follow the blog Dragon Age Confessions, and in fact the majority of my initial Tumblr postings are reblogs (and replies) of that, but it got to be so negative that I unfollowed after a while.
 
Er... enough about Tumblr...
 
 
On a more humorous note, David Gaider linked this on Twitter: The True Impact of SJWs on Game Development.



[edit]
In retrospect, I probably shouldn't have written some of this stuff as I try to not over-personalize such posts, but I have to let it stand now.

 

One thing I noticed about Dragon Age confessions on tumblr, just from a cursory overview, was a tendency to use it as a means to rant.

 

"Confession: I hate it when people talk about how supposedly awesome Leliana is, because she's actually a manipulative Mary Sue."

 

Not that all complaints should be silenced.. ::side eyes thread title:: but they aren't exactly calling a spade a spade.

[HuldraDancer]

I'm so sorry to hear that Huldra.

 

Have you talked to the Doctor?

 

A few times but it always goes away before my appointment so I always get the 'use a hot compress' answer which makes it hurt a lot worse half the time.

[Lady Artifice]

Patrick Weekes interview thread

Also, I'm confused about the trolls, are Bunz, BabyPuncher, and the gramps all one person, like the three Talis?

 

So, I don't actually think Quarian Princess is the same person as QMR/Tali's sweat. I totally see why you do, but QMR/Tali's sweat has a signature sort of straightforwardness, and Quarian Princess doesn't quite match up. QMR also tends to make her irony very intentionally obvious, whereas Quarian Princess seems to actually be hoping to fool people.

 

Okay, so...

 

I know for a fact, and his own admission, that AutumnRose was Bunz.

 

I firmly believe that the Gramps is Bunz, and that Quarian Princess is Bunz' newest incarnation, based on their writing and baiting style, which has Bunz written all over it.

 

I wasn't actually assuming QMR and Tali's sweat are the same, until QMR herself confirmed that she has an alt with a Tali avatar in the trans thread last night. It makes sense, because the two have the same sort of aggressiveness. She refuted being Quarian Princess, and I believe her just because of how much Quarian Princess reminds me of Bunz and not her.

 

 

The reason the two get along so well is just because QMR likes Bunz. She/he jokingly sides with him in every single one of his alt accounts, no matter how outrageous his current sock puppet is. Bunz probably picked his new Quarian theme in tribute to QMR.

 

---

 

Baby Puncher was a completely different case. He wasn't actually a troll, from what I could tell. I think he believed every word. He was just really, really angry. He also has a really childlike perception of what a character should be. He want's them to be physically and morally flawless, and always heterosexual, because they should be "perfect."

 

I have been informed that before he was the BabyPuncher I know, he was a poster by the name of David.

 

Just "David," seriously. A lot of people called him that while he went by BabyPuncher.

 

He and I argued a lot, but then he argued with a lot of people a lot.

 

---

 

So really, in the whole mess we just have two posters with sock puppet accounts. Bunz, who is definitely taking this to excess, and QMR, who I'm guessing made the alt in case she gets banned.

[Biotic Apostate]

 

snip

 

I just hoped after seeing BabyPuncher's posts that he is a troll. Just plain 'David' does sound sort of unnerving.

 

This seems to be getting quite complicated. I feel like I'm on a telenovela.

 

[Steelcan]

Surely he couldn't have been weirder than BabyPuncher David.

oh David didn't hold a candle to him

[Steelcan]

also he was David7204

 

just no one wants to list out the numbers

[lynroy]

Baby Puncher was a completely different case. He wasn't actually a troll, from what I could tell. I think he believed every word. He was just really, really angry. He also has a really childlike perception of what a character should be. He want's them to be physically and morally flawless, and always heterosexual, because they should be "perfect."

 

I have been informed that before he was the BabyPuncher I know, he was a poster by the name of David.

 

Just "David," seriously. A lot of people called him that while he went by BabyPuncher.

 

He and I argued a lot, but then he argued with a lot of people a lot.

Ah, BabyPuncher. That guy gives me a headache while making me laugh. I call him Professor Puncher because he likes to ask questions he seems to already have an answer for and tries to use really big vocabulary. I remember when he tried to stir up the Solas thread. He was caught contradicting himself and didn't come back.

[wright1978]

Ahh here i was naively thinking the BSN would be as on top of sock puppeting as other sites.

[Han Shot First]

Is it weird to admit that I sort of miss David and Auld Wolf? 

 

Their posts were sort of a guilty pleasure. You knew once they entered a thread it was going no place good, but sometimes watching the inevitable implosion was amusing. Auld Wulf's angry blog entries about his many bans were quality reading as well. 

[HuldraDancer]

We may have a rabid raccoon hanging around our home, grandmother is set on capturing it herself to release somewhere since animal control isn't a thing over where we live and I am still to injured to really help with it. (Not that she would let me anyway) I've only seen it once when it was hiding in a tree after our dogs chased it up there but gran swears up and down it keeps coming back to the house and acting strangely.

[Lady Artifice]

I just hoped after seeing BabyPuncher's posts that he is a troll. Just plain 'David' does sound sort of unnerving.

 

This seems to be getting quite complicated. I feel like I'm on a telenovela.

 

 

 

Lol. It's funny you should mention, because parallels with a soap opera were drawn frequently when Bunz was doing his AutumnRose character. I'm not actually quite as fixated, or even as fascinated with all this as I seem. 

 

I got...drawn into the AutumnRose thing in a really weird way. Someone sent both of us a private message at the same time, because they misinterpreted an argument I had with that account as a friendly discussion. Or something.

 

It might be too bizarre to explain. 

 

Ah, BabyPuncher. That guy gives me a headache while making me laugh. I call him Professor Puncher because he likes to ask questions he seems to already have an answer for and tries to use really big vocabulary. I remember when he tried to stir up the Solas thread. He was caught contradicting himself and didn't come back.

 

 

I wish I'd seen that. Was he trying to take the lecture everyone in the thread for liking the character? I've seen him try to do that with the Vivienne thread as well. 

[Lady Artifice]

I already regret making that Blondes thread. 

 

I should really just learn my lesson about the ME:A section. 

[nightscrawl]

We may have a rabid raccoon hanging around our home, grandmother is set on capturing it herself to release somewhere since animal control isn't a thing over where we live and I am still to injured to really help with it. (Not that she would let me anyway) I've only seen it once when it was hiding in a tree after our dogs chased it up there but gran swears up and down it keeps coming back to the house and acting strangely.

 

For all I know your gran may be a total badass, and if so, more power to her, but this seems really dangerous... x_x