74 réponses à ce sujet

[Patchwork]

It's an easy jump for a human character but I've always had trouble with my elves.

 

I imagine it's even easier with a qunari.

[Chardonney]

It's an easy jump for a human character but I've always had trouble with my elves.

 

I imagine it's even easier with a qunari.

 

I've played a human only once. After that, I've always played with an female elf, my favorite.  

 

Hmm, qunari... I wonder if they even need to jump?

[Mlady]

I'm a PC+k&m girl to the heart but I have never had any problems with it.

 

I only got into ME a few months ago, so now I've mastered it and plan to try it with DAI next time.

 

I remember with a controller, the first time I played it, Cole nearly followed me up the rafters! I was afraid it would end like the time Solas knocked me off the ledge in the Hinterlands.

[Melbella]

In an attempt to keep all my friendships high, I noticed that Cole seems to disapprove of Celene ruling alone or Gaspard ruling (meaning Celene must die), but he's happy if all 3 are forced to cooperate and I think he also approves of Celene and Briala reuniting.

Most likely it's because Cole knows all 3 of them are terrible people and hates to see any one of them get the upper hand. I really don't understand why people give Briala a pass but hate on both Celene and Gaspard....she's just as much to blame for the war continuing as they are, if not more so. If not for her interference, Gaspard would have been long dead.


 

[AlanC9]

Perhaps in some situations, yes. The on-edge atmosphere of Halamshiral actually seems quite befitting of the actual dangers of the grand Game when you think about (even if it is tedious...really,really, tedious). But overall, the player should only be on-edge when it befits the narrative and not just for the sake of it.
 
Pivotal plot points, final boss battles, being in the middle of over hostile enemy territory--that sort of thing. Trying to go anywhere close "Dark Souls level" nerve-grating on it all the time will only appeal to a small niche crowd.

I concur. A lot of the oroblems with CRPGs are unfixable without firing the fans and appointing new ones.

[AlanC9]

Sure.  Unfortunately, I'm not sure the game has us on edge about the right things in this mission.
 
Shouldn't it be "Can't let Orlais fall into chaos!" more than "Where's that last  %&^@ing halla statue?

It's not like we actually ever need halla statues. Still, point taken. But that's because Bio didn't dare make a timer actually important, isn't it?
 

As such, my Inquisitors have no particular reason to put Gaspard on the throne when he is in a position to stop the assassination..

That wasn't my experience. Depending on your path through the mission, it's easy enough to come away with the (incorrect) impression that Celene is too incompetent to live. You can read that fairly often on this board.

[Dai Grepher]

The bottom line is this. You are there to prevent Corypheus from killing Celene and causing chaos in Orlais. You don't know why Corypheus wants her dead. Maybe it is just to cause widespread panic and to weaken Orlais' forces. Or maybe there's something special about Celene that you don't know about. Either way, she should live.

 

It's then a question of how much you want to meddle in Orlais' affairs. My Inquisitor believed in respecting the sovereignty of nations. So he chose not to interfere with how Orlais conducts itself. He established the three-way deadlock between Celene, Gaspard, and Briala. He had them all work together until Corypheus was defeated. After that, they were free to go back to business as usual, though he hoped they would see the benefit in cooperating and choose to continue doing so for the good of all.

 

Another option is to recognize Gaspard as nothing but a usurper and traitor. Yet another option is to recognize Briala as a saboteur, hypocrite, and attempted murderer.

 

Another option is to reconcile Celene and Briala for the good they might do together. Or if you want to risk it, you could dispose of Celene for her past crimes and incompetence and give Gaspard a chance. He will likely raise a strong military to help you fight. And if you are feeling particularly sympathetic toward the elves, then give Briala the evidence needed to blackmail Gaspard.

[AnimalBoy]

It's an easy jump for a human character but I've always had trouble with my elves.

 

I imagine it's even easier with a qunari.

 

I'm a dwarf...

[Iakus]

It's not like we actually ever need halla statues. Still, point taken. But that's because Bio didn't dare make a timer actually important, isn't it?
 

Except you do if you want to do any sort of independent investigation.  Personally, I'd have preferred to actually play politics by...playing politics.  Investigating rumors, questioning guests, cutting deals.  Rather than checking the rafters for wooden animals.

 

In addition, as I've said before, I would have liked to have had stuff going on in the Exalted Plains, Emerald Graves, and Emprise du Leon actually play into Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts.  Though I can see that causing a huge tangled mess based on when you've visited the places and how much you have done.

 

 

 

That wasn't my experience. Depending on your path through the mission, it's easy enough to come away with the (incorrect) impression that Celene is too incompetent to live. You can read that fairly often on this board.

 

I found all the characters incredibly flat compared to TME.  If I hadn't read the book, I wouldn't care who's butt was on the throne.

[vbibbi]

Except you do if you want to do any sort of independent investigation.  Personally, I'd have preferred to actually play politics by...playing politics.  Investigating rumors, questioning guests, cutting deals.  Rather than checking the rafters for wooden animals.
 
In addition, as I've said before, I would have liked to have had stuff going on in the Exalted Plains, Emerald Graves, and Emprise du Leon actually play into Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts.  Though I can see that causing a huge tangled mess based on when you've visited the places and how much you have done.
 
 

 
I found all the characters incredibly flat compared to TME.  If I hadn't read the book, I wouldn't care who's butt was on the throne.

Agree on all parts. It's the same issue with a lot of the game, that Bio didn't want to restrict the open world element by dictating a required set of quests to advance the plot, instead relying on power points. But then this means that players can just perform requisition quests and close rifts and avoid any of the meatier main zone quests. To be fair, it is a huge game and if EP, EG, and/or EdL had been required prior to the Winter Palace, many would complain about the hoops to jump through or not even finish.

But yeah, it would have been great if most of the zones' main quests had been tied in to the direct plot. Leave Oasis and Hissing Wasres as optional content, everything else actually be narratively important.

[In Exile]

Agree on all parts. It's the same issue with a lot of the game, that Bio didn't want to restrict the open world element by dictating a required set of quests to advance the plot, instead relying on power points. But then this means that players can just perform requisition quests and close rifts and avoid any of the meatier main zone quests. To be fair, it is a huge game and if EP, EG, and/or EdL had been required prior to the Winter Palace, many would complain about the hoops to jump through or not even finish.

But yeah, it would have been great if most of the zones' main quests had been tied in to the direct plot. Leave Oasis and Hissing Wasres as optional content, everything else actually be narratively important.

You don't need to make them mandatory. You can have quest chains about building ties and alliances with one of Gaspard, Celene or Brialla (or playing all three) to get in, or you could build power and just spend it all to show up on your own. As TW3 shows, you don't need to disconnect your quests from the plot to avoid making them mandatory - just don't make them mandatory. 

 

A DA:O example would be to make it so that the HOF could just beeline through the deeproads without Oghren or ever going to the Assembly. All the content would be there as a side quest (optional) but still tied to the main plot. 

[Wulfram]

I've never really understood how Celene's blackmail is supposed to work. What has she done that she'd find damaging to be revealed?

[Dai Grepher]

Except you do if you want to do any sort of independent investigation.  Personally, I'd have preferred to actually play politics by...playing politics.  Investigating rumors, questioning guests, cutting deals.  Rather than checking the rafters for wooden animals.

 

In addition, as I've said before, I would have liked to have had stuff going on in the Exalted Plains, Emerald Graves, and Emprise du Leon actually play into Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts.  Though I can see that causing a huge tangled mess based on when you've visited the places and how much you have done.

 

 

 

I found all the characters incredibly flat compared to TME.  If I hadn't read the book, I wouldn't care who's butt was on the throne.

 

They could have just made it so you only do a few related quests in those areas, then return later once WEWH is complete. Like how the Hinterlands quests can be done in stages.
 

[Dai Grepher]

You don't need to make them mandatory. You can have quest chains about building ties and alliances with one of Gaspard, Celene or Brialla (or playing all three) to get in, or you could build power and just spend it all to show up on your own. As TW3 shows, you don't need to disconnect your quests from the plot to avoid making them mandatory - just don't make them mandatory. 

 

A DA:O example would be to make it so that the HOF could just beeline through the deeproads without Oghren or ever going to the Assembly. All the content would be there as a side quest (optional) but still tied to the main plot. 

 

Huh. A good post from you.
 

[Dai Grepher]

I've never really understood how Celene's blackmail is supposed to work. What has she done that she'd find damaging to be revealed?

 

That she dallied with a lowly "rabbit" elf servant and also became emotionally attached to the point that it compromised her. Also, I think her tying the guard up and plotting to allow Gaspard's soldiers to invade would make the lords turn on her as well. Risking the safety of the nobles just to eliminate a rival? How gauche.

[Dai Grepher]

I found all the characters incredibly flat compared to TME.  If I hadn't read the book, I wouldn't care who's butt was on the throne.

 

I also meant to ask, based on what you read in the book, who was the correct choice in your opinion?

[vbibbi]

You don't need to make them mandatory. You can have quest chains about building ties and alliances with one of Gaspard, Celene or Brialla (or playing all three) to get in, or you could build power and just spend it all to show up on your own. As TW3 shows, you don't need to disconnect your quests from the plot to avoid making them mandatory - just don't make them mandatory. 

 

A DA:O example would be to make it so that the HOF could just beeline through the deeproads without Oghren or ever going to the Assembly. All the content would be there as a side quest (optional) but still tied to the main plot. 

Very true. This would have been great! Potentially add to replayability, as well. If we have enough power we can enter the Winter Palace. But if we do task X Y or Z, we have a lower power threshold to enter, and we have automatically increased approval from one of the three contenders. This could lead to additional options only available to them, or just make it easier for "good" outcomes to occur. Say, we would only need 50 court approval and Briala's backing to win, and if we had no one's backing, we would still need 80 or even 90 court approval.

[Iakus]

I also meant to ask, based on what you read in the book, who was the correct choice in your opinion?

I don't really think there is a "correct" choice, just choices you personally prefer, based on who they are and how they acted.  they hall had traits that I found admirable and deplorable.

[Wulfram]

That she dallied with a lowly "rabbit" elf servant and also became emotionally attached to the point that it compromised her. Also, I think her tying the guard up and plotting to allow Gaspard's soldiers to invade would make the lords turn on her as well. Risking the safety of the nobles just to eliminate a rival? How gauche.

The first might be embarassing, but its not what you blackmail her with. And Gaspard's known about it since the beginning of the civil war anyway so all you're adding to the mix is the testimony of one random elf.

The second just seems like good strategy. Arranging things so that you can take advantage if your enemy breaks faith. This is Orlais, so no one is expecting political innocents here.

[AlanC9]

I found all the characters incredibly flat compared to TME. If I hadn't read the book, I wouldn't care who's butt was on the throne.

True, but I don't see this as a problem. As a matter of RP, I can't see why any of my Inquisitors would have any interest in these people except to the extent that they can fulfill Inquisition policy interests, or possibly pro-elven policy interests if that's how that Quizzy rolls.

[vbibbi]

True, but I don't see this as a problem. As a matter of RP, I can't see why any of my Inquisitors would have any interest in these people except to the extent that they can fulfill Inquisition policy interests.

From an Inquisitor POV sure, but I wouldn't call that good storytelling. As WEWH stands, we still don't get a picture of how each candidate would help the Inquisition other than a vague promise of political backing. So from that perspective, Celene is best as she doesn't require a governmental coup to be in power.

And it is poor quest design for me that the quest is set up so that we make an action plan with the advisors at Skyhold, and then Leliana decides midway through that maybe we should change our agreed upon plan. I would have preferred for us to select a candidate prior to entering the palace, and then if the PC decides to change their mind we can do so before the end of the quest, but it's as making that executive choice independent of the advisors. But not have our agreed upon strategy with our trusted advisors be put to one side as a method of giving us options.

[In Exile]

From an Inquisitor POV sure, but I wouldn't call that good storytelling. As WEWH stands, we still don't get a picture of how each candidate would help the Inquisition other than a vague promise of political backing. So from that perspective, Celene is best as she doesn't require a governmental coup to be in power.

And it is poor quest design for me that the quest is set up so that we make an action plan with the advisors at Skyhold, and then Leliana decides midway through that maybe we should change our agreed upon plan. I would have preferred for us to select a candidate prior to entering the palace, and then if the PC decides to change their mind we can do so before the end of the quest, but it's as making that executive choice independent of the advisors. But not have our agreed upon strategy with our trusted advisors be put to one side as a method of giving us options.

 

The Inquisition isn't actually trying to get their backing per se - though you do want troops to fight Corypheus - so much as just stabilizing the country so that Corypheus can't benefit from its destabilization. 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

You are dealing with three politicians. There are no right answer here, there are simply lesser evils.

[nightscrawl]

I don't really think there is a "correct" choice, just choices you personally prefer, based on who they are and how they acted.  they hall had traits that I found admirable and deplorable.

You are dealing with three politicians. There are no right answer here, there are simply lesser evils.

Total agreement. You can also focus on why you don't want someone to rule, rather than the opposite. This is what my Inquisitor does with Gaspard, and why he eventually opts for the triad. Although I do admit that part of my RP is that he later wonders if that choice was a mistake, but that is the fun of role-play.

[AnimalBoy]

There's not really a way to act like an Orlesian in the game but i liked to imagine that my Inquisitor loved the Orlesian culture. Skyhold decked out from top to bottom in Orlesian beds, banners, drapes, throne, etc.