35 réponses à ce sujet

[themikefest]

Hackett is more trustworthy than the Catalyst. How's that? You've known Hackett for years. You spoke to that kid for less than 10 minutes. That makes Hackett more trustworthy. It's like trusting some shady stranger on the street after one conversation, as opposed to someone you known very well for quite some time.

I see you added more to your comment

 

Just because I know someone doesn't mean were friends or I trust him. Why would I trust Hackett anyways? He gives my dogtags to an alien I don't care about instead of my mother. He failed to mention that I might run into Cerberus on Mars. Like I would trust that guy. Besides that, I don't need him telling me to destroy the reapers when I was planning on doing that regardless.

 

Spoke to that  kid? Shepard spoke to a thing calling itself catalyst that takes the form of a child for whatever reason,

[rossler]

So what's the problem? Just ignore what the kid says and destroy the Reapers.

[themikefest]

So what's the problem?

Is there a problem?
 

Just ignore what the kid says and destroy the Reapers.

What makes you believe I don't ignore the thing? I've always picked destroy.

[StarcloudSWG]

The reason the Destroy beam targets "all synthetics" is because, as of the end of ME 3, all synthetics have adapted bits and pieces of Reaper code and/or Reaper hardware.

 

EDI is literally built around Sovereign's cyberwarfare suite and hardware, and the derelict Reaper's IFF.

 

The geth have either adapted Reaper AI code upgrades thanks to Legion, or have acquired Reaper code pieces from their time being dominated by the Reapers.

 

VI's are also synthetic, and vitally important for the operation of advanced power systems and starships. Since there are starships still flying after Destroy, it can be reasonably concluded that even if Destroy did target them, they were not affected by the wave/signal/energy.

 

On another note, the line "Even you are partly synthetic." is blatant emotional manipulation, relying on the fallacy that synthetic *parts* equals synthetic *intelligence.* This line can be completely discounted from the dialog as an attempt to force Shepard away from destroying the Reapers and into cooperating with the Reapers.

[FlyingSquirrel]

For me, the answer re: EDI is a definite no for a simple reason: she's on the memorial wall in the Destroy epilogue.

 

It's clear that at least a little time has passed in the memorial wall scene, for a couple of reasons. First, the ship seems to have crash-landed and their immediate priority after crash-landing is not going to be putting up memorial plaques for Shepard or anybody else. Plus, nobody would know that Shepard was dead right away - as far as everyone else is concerned, they simply lost contact with Shepard shortly before the pulse fired, so it would take some time before Shepard would be declared KIA or anyone would have the chance to communicate that to the Normandy. 

 

So if EDI had backed herself up or otherwise managed to survive, surely she'd have let the crew know that she's alive at some point before the memorial wall scene comes to pass.

 

And I'm deeply skeptical of the "rebuild" suggestion for EDI or the geth, because how would you know that the same consciousness that was present before the pulse is still there in the "rebuilt" version? You could rebuild something very much like EDI or the geth, perhaps, but would it literally be the same individuals? 

[Elhanan]

For me, the answer re: EDI is a definite no for a simple reason: she's on the memorial wall in the Destroy epilogue.
 
It's clear that at least a little time has passed in the memorial wall scene, for a couple of reasons. First, the ship seems to have crash-landed and their immediate priority after crash-landing is not going to be putting up memorial plaques for Shepard or anybody else. Plus, nobody would know that Shepard was dead right away - as far as everyone else is concerned, they simply lost contact with Shepard shortly before the pulse fired, so it would take some time before Shepard would be declared KIA or anyone would have the chance to communicate that to the Normandy. 
 
So if EDI had backed herself up or otherwise managed to survive, surely she'd have let the crew know that she's alive at some point before the memorial wall scene comes to pass.
 
And I'm deeply skeptical of the "rebuild" suggestion for EDI or the geth, because how would you know that the same consciousness that was present before the pulse is still there in the "rebuilt" version? You could rebuild something very much like EDI or the geth, perhaps, but would it literally be the same individuals?

EDI as AI only may simply be recovering enough to inform the crew. And for the same reason, the Star Child may still be around as the Reapers were primarily about self-survival, and it created them.

Synthesis > Destroy

[themikefest]

Synthesis > Destroy

Destroy>Synthesis

[Reorte]

The geth have either adapted Reaper AI code upgrades thanks to Legion, or have acquired Reaper code pieces from their time being dominated by the Reapers.

So? The Reapers wrote some of the code running on geth platforms. How's a beam going to identify that and eliminate it, unless the Reapers put a hardcoded destroy trigger in everything they write (which is possible for the geth, so they retain control, but daft for themselves).

[Iakus]

So? The Reapers wrote some of the code running on geth platforms. How's a beam going to identify that and eliminate it, unless the Reapers put a hardcoded destroy trigger in everything they write (which is possible for the geth, so they retain control, but daft for themselves).

Not to mention there are AIs without Reaper code.  They are illegal in Council space, but some corporations and even governments make use of them on remote worlds far from Citadel control.

 

Not to mention any other synthetic life that might be out in the galaxy which hadn't even been discovered yet by the Council.

 

And yet the Catalyst says, with confidence, that "The Crucible will not discriminate.  All synthetic life will be targeted"  Which is just plain stupid.

[Abedsbrother]

On another note, the line "Even you are partly synthetic." is blatant emotional manipulation, relying on the fallacy that synthetic *parts* equals synthetic *intelligence.* This line can be completely discounted from the dialog as an attempt to force Shepard away from destroying the Reapers and into cooperating with the Reapers.

Agree. There is even this conversation with EDI earlier in the game on whether Shepard is human or transhuman. (EDI tells Shepard he is "fully human.")

[StarcloudSWG]

So? The Reapers wrote some of the code running on geth platforms. How's a beam going to identify that and eliminate it, unless the Reapers put a hardcoded destroy trigger in everything they write (which is possible for the geth, so they retain control, but daft for themselves).

 

Pretty daft, yes. I can only presume that they did, though. Some fundamental runtime backdoor that the Destroy signal uses to force energy overloads or something. Because http://tvtropes.org/...eNoSenseOfScale, a few back of the envelope calculations show that the energy supposedly released during any of the three endings is more than exists if an entire galaxy was completely converted into energy. The only way Destroy or Control can work is if it is a signal, which cuts down on the energy needed by a couple orders of magnitude and back into the realm of plausibility.

 

Synthesis cannot work at all. To pull off what it supposedly does, the spontaneous creation of circuitry in life forms and only in life forms, it needs access to more energy than exists in the universe. It is *vaguely* possible if there is a massive store of husk-making nanides on the Citadel (they're certainly not in the Crucible, which is just a power source) and the Crucible beam is just a carrier to push those nanides through the mass-relay network.

 

But if there were such a store on the Citadel, then why wouldn't it have been released onto Earth when the Citadel was dragged into orbit?