121 réponses à ce sujet

[Mathias]

One of the things that changed with Bioware games in the EA Era, is how missions are handled. Back before ME2, the missions you went on weren't just levels, they were entire arcs that took place in giant areas. Nowadays when you go on a main story mission, it just takes you immediately to the area, you go through some corridors, kill some bad guys, and after about 30 minutes to an hour you're done with the mission and taken back to your main hub.

 

I miss how missions used to take place in huge hubs, where you'd meet all kinds of new people, delve into politics, explore the town/encampment, shop at stores, and then eventually get to a section of the hub where you enter the bad guy's hideout. Because this approach didn't just make the missions feel like, a mission. It felt like an entire story, within a story. Each of these missions had their own feel and theme to them, and really felt like you were getting to explore and learn more about the universe the game took place in.

 

I have so many great memories of Noveria, Tatooine, Manaan, The Brecilian Forest, etc. I'm not saying none of modern Bioware missions are great, but with the exception of just a couple, they haven't left an impact on me like they used to. I feel like the old approach to missions worked best for these type of games.

[Midnight Bliss]

Back when side missions were interesting, had actual stories and didn't feel like rejected ideas from some bad upcoming MMO.

 

 

The good ol days.

[Linkenski]

Too many EA goons have infiltrated the ranks at Bioware lol. Now Bioware games have their plots developed in respect to the gameplay as opposed to sacrificing a lot of immediate action and gameplay for the sake of building stories.

 

So instead, we get levels, as in... videogamey, now. It's strange they shy away from it considering Witcher 3 said "**** gameplay" at large and got a higher metascore than DA:I thanks to being so immersive, having a believable plot and great quest-design that valued storytelling above gameplay, but like I said. EA goons or ex-fail-developers have infiltrated the ranks of Bioware while their veterans have been leaving with months in between since EA aqcuired them. It's just not going to happen ever again.

[ArcadiaGrey]

I liked the big hubs, being in Orzammar or Noveria and seeing life in a city environment was great.  However I don't think I enjoyed the old style more.  I think of the Brecilian Forest and Orzammar and I remember being stuck there for bloody ages, they seemed never ending.  There were silly side quests like finding a book or a plank of wood that were pretty boring.

 

For ME1 I don't enjoy the side quests on Feros, but then I liked the politics of Noveria. 

 

Having a large area is all well and good, but when the interactions with NPCs amount to 'while you're saving the world could you just pick up this mundane object for me' it doesn't really capture my interest.

 

Perhaps ME2 did it the best.  I like Illium and Omega, you can wonder around a bit but then be sent to go recruit Thane or Samara and get a whole new area.  Very few fetch quests, but the feel of a big city with important people in it.  Vendors, gossip, news reports etc.

 

DA:I and ME3 each needed a place like that (that wasn't the Citadel).

[wright1978]

I liked the big hubs, being in Orzammar or Noveria and seeing life in a city environment was great.  However I don't think I enjoyed the old style more.  I think of the Brecilian Forest and Orzammar and I remember being stuck there for bloody ages, they seemed never ending.  There were silly side quests like finding a book or a plank of wood that were pretty boring.

 

For ME1 I don't enjoy the side quests on Feros, but then I liked the politics of Noveria. 

 

Having a large area is all well and good, but when the interactions with NPCs amount to 'while you're saving the world could you just pick up this mundane object for me' it doesn't really capture my interest.

 

Perhaps ME2 did it the best.  I like Illium and Omega, you can wonder around a bit but then be sent to go recruit Thane or Samara and get a whole new area.  Very few fetch quests, but the feel of a big city with important people in it.  Vendors, gossip, news reports etc.

 

DA:I and ME3 each needed a place like that (that wasn't the Citadel).

 

Exactly what i was thinking. ME2  does it excellently, has hubs that you can wander around a bit as well kick off mission levels.

[Il Divo]

It's rare for me to agree with a "old Bioware was better" argument, but this is one of those areas which I think was superior for the older games. I much prefer it when the level design does not segregate "combat zones" from "world map zones", it creates an artificial separation (imo). I think Bioware writing hasn't really changed much in terms of quality, but they should take a couple pages from their previous world design. 

[Elhanan]

Again, prefer a balance of the two.

I am still uneasy about the Brecelian Forest; love the Deep Roads. And I disliked ME2 as a whole, so cannot recall much from my only campaign. I thought KOTOR handled those worlds well, and also like the majority of the DAI areas. Etc.

[Sanunes]

It is all about personal perspective I guess, for it felt like BioWare was moving away from what you were talking about in Mass Effect 1 because I liked something like Lothering in Dragon Age: Origins for there was a little combat around it, but the conversation and NPC's in Noveria or Feros didn't feel that much different then Thessia in Mass Effect 3 you had a couple of NPCs you had to talk to for a quest and then moved on.

 

Edit:

 

To me this is more of a difference of different franchises then old BioWare versus new BioWare.

[Mcfly616]

I completely agree OP. Mission design started going downhill with ME2. They made things more segmented, making it less fluid, and even completely destroyed immersion by breaking the 4th wall and giving us a Mission Complete screen. 

 

ME1 and KotOR allowed us to move freely through the games hubs, seamlessly completing any objectives we want. It was much more natural.

 

Now, we click on a planet and it might as well say "Press A to begin mission", then we proceed to run down hallways from point A to point B, until we get an old school "Mission Complete" screen. 

[Mcfly616]

 the conversation and NPC's in Noveria or Feros didn't feel that much different then Thessia in Mass Effect 3 you had a couple of NPCs you had to talk to for a quest and then moved on.

That's not the case at all. When you went to Thessia in ME3, it was an individual mission. You know your objective before you even get there. You start the mission, you land on the planet, talk to the Asari in charge and then move on to your destination via linear walkways. (just like every other linear mission in the sequels)

 

In ME1, when you land on Feros and Noveria, they are hubs you traveled to because you're following leads. There's numerous tasks you can choose to do for any number of npc's. Tasks that may or may not have anything to do with why you're there. You can complete these tasks at your own pace. You are not thrown into these worlds and forced to run straight ahead until you reach the finish line. 

[Nohvarr]

The old system was limiting in it's own way. Essentially Bioware had you going to 4-5 areas then entering the final zone. Sure you had side quest within those areas, but when (like in Mass Effect) you have an entire galaxy to play with, seeing only 4-5 planets in detail is kind of a waste.

 

TW3 had its major areas all on the same continent so they could focus more on fleshing said areas out with people and side stories.If the next Dragon Age does take place in Tevinter Bioware could attempt the same thing. DA:I was a first shot at a new way of doing large areas so it'll be interesting to see what they learn and apply to future games.

 

Mass Effects is a bit tricky, since you have a cluster full of potential alien worlds to choose from as far as settings go. This is a time to get creative with the planets themselves and tell their story not just that of the beings living on them. However you have to balance your available resources to make the game against this goal. For Mass Effect I suggest a main area, a hub world that leads you to other more exotic locals.

[Mcfly616]

I'd rather explore 5 planets extensively, instead of sprinting through the linear paths/hallways of 20 different planets. Any day.

 

 

Whole planets/solar systems/galaxies to explore, and we're running down corridors. What a waste.

[Sanunes]

That's not the case at all. When you went to Thessia in ME3, it was an individual mission. You know your objective before you even get there. You start the mission, you land on the planet, talk to the Asari in charge and then move on to your destination via linear walkways. (just like every other linear mission in the sequels)

 

In ME1, when you land on Feros and Noveria, they are hubs you traveled to because you're following leads. There's numerous tasks you can choose to do for any number of npc's. Tasks that may or may not have anything to do with why you're there. You can complete these tasks at your own pace. You are not thrown into these worlds and forced to run straight ahead until you reach the finish line. 

 

That is not how I see it and its probably why I feel the way I do.  To me to have side quests they need to be skippable and not required to move forward and if I remember correctly the only parts you can skip is gathering the data for Gavin for even if you skip that outpost you still have the same outcome if you never stopped on your way to the Exogeni HQ.

[wright1978]

I'd rather explore 5 planets extensively, instead of sprinting through the linear paths/hallways of 20 different planets. Any day.

 

 

Whole planets/solar systems/galaxies to explore, and we're running down corridors. What a waste.

 

I really hope there are other colony hubs as well as the ark(assuming the ark is one), from which to kick off and collect missions. Aside from these I'd say i'd prefer to explore a smaller area of a planets where there's actually interesting and different misisons, than explore a full but largely empty worlds. Expect the mako to be tied to getting to areas like it was in ME1, afterwards there's going to be structures of some sort to run through.

[Drakoriz]

I'd rather explore 5 planets extensively, instead of sprinting through the linear paths/hallways of 20 different planets. Any day.

 

 

Whole planets/solar systems/galaxies to explore, and we're running down corridors. What a waste.

 

that depend, exploring need to be balance with story, same as reason to explore.

 

That is my main problem with games like Witcher 3, where they give me a HUGE map to explore and most of the map is empty, and points to explore and just chest or monster dents.

 

For me ME2 with a more focus on story idea of exploration make a excellent job, and to a lesser but not bad extend ME 3 did it great too.

 

I know alot of ppl didnt like DA I, but i love the idea of exploring all those different regions, and that the maps werent that big that i was stuck there forever. LOL i got tired of Novigrad really easy on Witcher 3.

 

So im really exited to see where ME Andromeda took the exploration/story

[Dashen Thomas]

Noveria in ME1 and Ilium in ME2 were great. They actually reminded me of the planets in KotOR even though far simpler. Yeah as time has progressed there has happened some kind of separation of gameplay and meaningful story elements. It might be simply because the teams have grown and having developers and writers working constantly together is much more time demanding. I actually think the main reason is the challenge of managing big teams, resources and the logistics of it all. So we end up with Assassin's Creed type of repeating side activities and fairly linear main story. Yet as Witcher 3 shows it is possible to combine plot and well written side quests even in large scale.

[In Exile]

I agree but ME1 totally failed at this too. DAO and KOTOR and JE were the last bastion in this regard.

[Ascari]

I really miss when a random NPC calls for you, then you talk to them, then get a quest.

[LinksOcarina]

One of the things that changed with Bioware games in the EA Era, is how missions are handled. Back before ME2, the missions you went on weren't just levels, they were entire arcs that took place in giant areas. Nowadays when you go on a main story mission, it just takes you immediately to the area, you go through some corridors, kill some bad guys, and after about 30 minutes to an hour you're done with the mission and taken back to your main hub.

 

I miss how missions used to take place in huge hubs, where you'd meet all kinds of new people, delve into politics, explore the town/encampment, shop at stores, and then eventually get to a section of the hub where you enter the bad guy's hideout. Because this approach didn't just make the missions feel like, a mission. It felt like an entire story, within a story. Each of these missions had their own feel and theme to them, and really felt like you were getting to explore and learn more about the universe the game took place in.

 

I have so many great memories of Noveria, Tatooine, Manaan, The Brecilian Forest, etc. I'm not saying none of modern Bioware missions are great, but with the exception of just a couple, they haven't left an impact on me like they used to. I feel like the old approach to missions worked best for these type of games.

 

They kind of did that, in tying a whole area together, with Jaws of Hakkon.

 

So BioWare can still do memorable areas and area-mission quests. I think Inquisition was a response to try and not do their "formula" approach if they can help it, but who knows. Perhaps they will bring back more of those area-style questlines in Andromeda. 

[afgncaap7]

I'd take just about anything over the "sidequests" we got in ME3.

[Master Warder Z_]

Again, prefer a balance of the two.

I am still uneasy about the Brecelian Forest; love the Deep Roads. And I disliked ME2 as a whole, so cannot recall much from my only campaign. I thought KOTOR handled those worlds well, and also like the majority of the DAI areas. Etc.

 

Obsidian should make the new KOTOR if there is one...which there won't be.

[capn233]

Well in very general terms I might agree with OP that it would be nice if the mission areas were more expansive and a bit less linear.

 

As far as the Mass Effect series goes, I agree that the main story planets in ME1 were nice large areas, but for the most part they were pretty linear.  Noveria was probably the least linear, and is one of my favorite missions in the trilogy.

 

I thought DAI was odd in this respect since you have this gigantic areas that are basically just sidequest areas, but main missions take place in premade areas that are much smaller.  Granted you have small bits of main mission that take place in a couple large maps (Hinterlands, Crestwood, Western Approach), and What Pride Had Wrought felt relatively big.

[Dark_Caduceus]

Me too. Having numerous hub worlds with sidequests within them to discover (by tlaking to people, among other things) actually makes the universe seem larger.

If gives the impression that the world is large and expansive and you've only seen a tiny fraction of it. This is in cotnrast to Mass Effect 2 and especially Mass Effect 3 where you go on tons of missions that are short and self-contained.

[ZipZap2000]

The Mako is back and probably for a reason.

I prefer large areas with content to discover as well, lots of loot and interesting people. Hubs certainly need to feel more alive than DA:I.

The problem with ME1 missions was they became race tracks for the Mako and the Mako sucked back then. So driving around lava pits while fighting geth and dodging missiles, in what's essentially a corridor for your vehicle while trying to use the turret became an annoyance.

[NKnight7]

I liked the big hubs, being in Orzammar or Noveria and seeing life in a city environment was great.  However I don't think I enjoyed the old style more.  I think of the Brecilian Forest and Orzammar and I remember being stuck there for bloody ages, they seemed never ending.  There were silly side quests like finding a book or a plank of wood that were pretty boring.

 

For ME1 I don't enjoy the side quests on Feros, but then I liked the politics of Noveria. 

 

Having a large area is all well and good, but when the interactions with NPCs amount to 'while you're saving the world could you just pick up this mundane object for me' it doesn't really capture my interest.

 

Perhaps ME2 did it the best.  I like Illium and Omega, you can wonder around a bit but then be sent to go recruit Thane or Samara and get a whole new area.  Very few fetch quests, but the feel of a big city with important people in it.  Vendors, gossip, news reports etc.

 

DA:I and ME3 each needed a place like that (that wasn't the Citadel).

 

I think that's one reason why I enjoyed ME2 so much. The hub areas were fun to just move around in because you could hear NPC's talking around you, find a mission every now and then, and shop at the vendors spread around the area. I'm hoping Andromeda does something similar.