121 réponses à ce sujet

[ZipZap2000]

In ME1, when you land on Feros and Noveria, they are hubs you traveled to because you're following leads. There's numerous tasks you can choose to do for any number of npc's. Tasks that may or may not have anything to do with why you're there. You can complete these tasks at your own pace. You are not thrown into these worlds and forced to run straight ahead until you reach the finish line.

I disagree you cant get most of those quests without rushing towards your mission.

Noveria

Arrive

Find out Benezia is there

Complete set tasks to unlock the corridor to her location then drive down a corridor to fight through more corridors to find her.

All side missions are placed directly in front of you as you progress as are the solutions.

Feros

Arrive

Side missions presented in order one by one as you travel down corridors. Only to be completed in the next corridor you travel to.

Fight through corridors.

Open corridor to next side missions without diverting off route from your main mission.

Drive down corridor towards main mission and magically find what you needed in the next corridor.


Virtually every side quest is presented in a way that lets you do them one by one in order as you progress down a corridor to a predetermined location. To fight a predetermine bad guy.

If you removed them you'd still be doing the exact same thing you were doing while they were in the game.

Its well presented and not much more.

[Suron]

Thing is...that BioWare no longer exists.  They're gone.  It's an EA studio and only BioWare in name.  Hasn't even Gaider left recently too?  BioWare doesn't exist anymore.

 

That's why we don't get those kinds of things anymore.  The talent they have is a shadow of what BioWare used to be.  Again (can't stress it enough) because it is literally EA just using the BioWare name.

 

It's a shame, but true.  And we won't see that kind of thing anymore from the side-studio EA calls BioWare.

[Sanunes]

Thing is...that BioWare no longer exists.  They're gone.  It's an EA studio and only BioWare in name.  Hasn't even Gaider left recently too?  BioWare doesn't exist anymore.

 

That's why we don't get those kinds of things anymore.  The talent they have is a shadow of what BioWare used to be.  Again (can't stress it enough) because it is literally EA just using the BioWare name.

 

It's a shame, but true.  And we won't see that kind of thing anymore from the side-studio EA calls BioWare.

 

I could understand that reasoning if there wasn't the negativity towards Mass Effect 1 and Dragon Age: Origins for both games were criticized because they weren't enough like Knights of the Old Republic or Baldurs Gate and people were claiming BioWare was dead then too.

[LinksOcarina]

I could understand that reasoning if there wasn't the negativity towards Mass Effect 1 and Dragon Age: Origins for both games were criticized because they weren't enough like Knights of the Old Republic or Baldurs Gate and people were claiming BioWare was dead then too.

 

People will always claim a developer is dead. 

 

It's what people do, but companies change employees, change their style, even their games and expertise in developing titles over time. Hoping to recreate what the past was is not the way to go in the end for everyone, it's chasing a unicorn that you will never fully grasp.

 

Think of it this way, the niche BioWare has carved for them with older titles is still vibrant if people want to play those games. The thing is, BioWare is not a part of that niche. It's not that they are a "shadow" of their former selves, quite the opposite, they are robust, but in a way that is different because of the changes and growth they have faced.

 

It's the kind of thing many of us i'm sure wanted them to have, which is success. With that success, however, is compromise. It's simply a fact of the matter.

[Remix-General Aetius]

A mixture of both would be good. Some of those old ME1 quests get tedious after a while.

 

Having said that, I'd have preferred to have stayed on Tuchanka during the genophage arc. Have the krogan set up a temporary hub like in the Omega DLC. I hated having to go back n forth on the Normandy. If we really needed to go back there, we could have Normandy remain in orbit and have a shuttle ready to take us up.

[ArcadiaGrey]

I disagree you cant get most of those quests without rushing towards your mission.

Noveria

Arrive

Find out Benezia is there

Complete set tasks to unlock the corridor to her location then drive down a corridor to fight through more corridors to find her.

All side missions are placed directly in front of you as you progress as are the solutions.

Feros

Arrive

Side missions presented in order one by one as you travel down corridors. Only to be completed in the next corridor you travel to.

Fight through corridors.

Open corridor to next side missions without diverting off route from your main mission.

Drive down corridor towards main mission and magically find what you needed in the next corridor.


Virtually every side quest is presented in a way that lets you do them one by one in order as you progress down a corridor to a predetermined location. To fight a predetermine bad guy.

If you removed them you'd still be doing the exact same thing you were doing while they were in the game.

Its well presented and not much more.

 

That's so true.  I put off going to Feros every time, I feel like I'm ticking things off on a shopping list.  

How liberating it is to play a renegade Shep who doesn't give a damn and just run past them all. 

[AlanC9]

I could understand that reasoning if there wasn't the negativity towards Mass Effect 1 and Dragon Age: Origins for both games were criticized because they weren't enough like Knights of the Old Republic or Baldurs Gate and people were claiming BioWare was dead then too.

That goes back a long way. Anyone else remember these boards when NWN was released? Almost as bad as ME3's board was. My favorite was the people demanding that Bio fire the new writers and hire back the BG2 writers; of course, it turns out that they were mostly the same people.

[Joseph Warrick]

The NWN campaign isn't worthy of a Nobel prize in literature to be fair. Kotor and Jade Empire have better main stories. Asking for layoffs is excessive and typical of Bioware fandom, but I can't blame people for thinking NWN was created by different writers.

[Elhanan]

That goes back a long way. Anyone else remember these boards when NWN was released? Almost as bad as ME3's board was. My favorite was the people demanding that Bio fire the new writers and hire back the BG2 writers; of course, it turns out that they were mostly the same people.

Too busy playing the OC; took me six months overall to complete in O-C fashion. What I do recall is developing a singular dislike for Atari for their misdeeds concerning Premium mods and their authors.

[Elhanan]

The NWN campaign isn't worthy of a Nobel prize in literature to be fair. Kotor and Jade Empire have better main stories. Asking for layoffs is excessive and typical of Bioware fandom, but I can't blame people for thinking NWN was created by different writers.

Also linked to Atari, I believe. Seem to recall a later re-telling of the tale that contained all of the planned designs, but was forced to edits due to publisher oversight. Perhaps another has a link to that story.

[LinksOcarina]

The NWN campaign isn't worthy of a Nobel prize in literature to be fair. Kotor and Jade Empire have better main stories. Asking for layoffs is excessive and typical of Bioware fandom, but I can't blame people for thinking NWN was created by different writers.

 

Yeah but even you got to admit, it's kind of tiresome and predictable to hear.

 

It really does put the games into perspective, and the community as a whole. 

[AlanC9]

The NWN campaign isn't worthy of a Nobel prize in literature to be fair. Kotor and Jade Empire have better main stories. Asking for layoffs is excessive and typical of Bioware fandom, but I can't blame people for thinking NWN was created by different writers.

No, but you can blame them for being unable to read credits.

[Sartoz]

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@OP

 

True, enough. With EA's policy of dumbing down their games, ME went from a RPG to aRPG. Actually, it should be Arpg, because the RPG portions are just breadcrumbs compared to real RPG games.

 

ME:A, imo, will continue the trend of simplify... simplify,

[Elhanan]

Sorry, but level design does not a RPG make. And considering that DAI possibly offered more detailed dialogue options available to the Player than ever, I believe cRPG's are possibly in better shape.

[Mathias]

I could understand that reasoning if there wasn't the negativity towards Mass Effect 1 and Dragon Age: Origins for both games were criticized because they weren't enough like Knights of the Old Republic or Baldurs Gate and people were claiming BioWare was dead then too.

I can't fully agree with this. You'll always have people claiming a developer is dead, but it wasn't like this. Despite any naysayers at the time, Baldur's Gate all the way up to DA:O, were all generally accepted to be great games. It wasn't until DA2 that Bioware games started receiving more and more criticism, to the point where some of them received outright backlash, that was heard across the Internet. Not to mention the style of these games started to change as they became more and more streamlined.

So saying that the Old Bioware is dead, does have merit to it.

[Il Divo]

I can't fully agree with this. You'll always have people claiming a developer is dead, but it wasn't like this. Despite any naysayers at the time, Baldur's Gate all the way up to DA:O, were all generally accepted to be great games. It wasn't until DA2 that Bioware games started receiving more and more criticism, to the point where some of them received outright backlash, that was heard across the Internet. Not to mention the style of these games started to change as they became more and more streamlined.

So saying that the Old Bioware is dead, does have merit to it.

 

The problem here is that the streamlining was a clear trend that could be seen as early as KotOR, with Jade Empire and Mass Effect 1 falling well within the action RPG category. Trying to leverage that onto EA doesn't work too well in this context. 

 

Each of those games, while ground breaking in their own way, were also fundamentally flawed in certain aspects. Neverwinter Nights is largely regarded as garbage for anyone interested in the single player, which was something of a signature for Bioware post BG. Jade Empire is about as far off the RPG spectrum as it gets and is considered to be a financial flop. And ME1 likewise was slammed by many for the planet exploration and inventory system/gameplay. 

 

Even their older games have the same iconic flaws that people throw out at the post-EA Bioware games. Baldur's Gate 1, for all the acclaim at the time of its release, featured a scavenger hunt for a main plot, a non-existent cast, minimal/laughably bad dialogue, and an insane focus on exploration (a criticism often thrown at Inquisition). 

 

Older Bioware games are great in a lot of ways, but examples of great game design? YMMV. 

[Joseph Warrick]

The old Bioware. Remember when EA wanted to turn them into The Witcher, before they changed their tune into the current "intersectional feminism" that now devs hurry to add to their twitter descriptions? That was an interesting phase.

[In Exile]

The old Bioware. Remember when EA wanted to turn them into The Witcher, before they changed their tune into the current "intersectional feminism" that now devs hurry to add to their twitter descriptions? That was an interesting phase.

I have no idea what this is in reference to, but whatever you think existed wasn't related to Bioware.

[slimgrin]

I have no idea what this is in reference to, but whatever you think existed wasn't related to Bioware.

 

I'd bet money you'll never see another cosplay event like that from EA again though. 

[In Exile]

I'd bet money you'll never see another cosplay event like that from EA again though.

It's just dumb, though. Why would something like that lead people to ever buy a game? I mean I suppose someone might watch it long enough to see some gameplay but I just don't get the logic from a sales POV.

[CronoDragoon]

I actually think Mass Effect 3 had the best critical path design. You had story events that lead naturally one into another (such as the turians asking for krogan battle troops) and a few hubs where big arcs such as the genophage and quarian/geth had some major side quests dedicated to them leading up to the big quest. Scattered around these events were meaty side quests like Grissom, the Asari Monastery, Cerberus scientists, Kasumi's Citadel quest, etc. And some fetch quests if you needed downtime between all the big cinematics and shooting. All at a nice length of 30-40 hours.

 

I prefer this to a bunch of unrelated sub-arcs that are only tenuously related to the central story arc. In structure, I much prefer Dragon Age 2's progression than Dragon Age: Origins, even if DA2's third arc is woefully underdeveloped.

[Derrame]

in short: th next game has to be more like ME2

[Akrabra]

in short: th next game has to be more like ME2

Or a combination of the good elements from all three games. 

[AlanC9]

in short: th next game has to be more like ME2

Isn't that the epitome of "unrelated sub-arcs"?

[NKnight7]

in short: th next game has to be more like ME2

 

I'd mainly like to see Andromeda have a combination of the good elements that people liked from all three games.