27 réponses à ce sujet

[Mocker22]

Wondering how everyone else feels about this. I'm 77 hours into my current playthrough and not even all that close to done. Now I am a completionist, so I've done most things available in every zone....but good god.

 

A nice long RPG is always nice but I think DA:I is really pushing it. Most of the zones felt fairly unnecessary from a storyline perspective to me and just way to spread out and big. I think they could have combined quests from a couple zones, or made the zones smaller and easier to explore.

 

Another problem for me personally is that I really like to experiment with different classes(major restart syndrome) so when a game is this huge, its very unlikely I will get to play every character I want to. Just don't got the time any more.

 

I feel like a lot of level design time would have been better spent elsewhere. I would have given up 20 hours of game play without blinking for an AI that worked halfway decent. Good example here, my Varric is using Bianca and NO abilities that require him to be close to an enemy. Why do I constantly find myself saying WTF did Varric just run up there and get creamed.

 

One last rant not necessarily related to just DA:I but modern RPGs in general. I feel like this has become a trend. Games that are made incredible "big and open" but its all meaningless fluff. So many modern RPGs(I'm looking at you Witcher 3 and PoE) have endless sidequests and very few main storyline quests. The world is in danger of being conquered by this or that evil thing......wait, lets stop and help that poor farmer find his pig.

 

Does anyone else think game designers need to get back to Story creation and not just "big game" creation.

[katerinafm]

Ha, I'd trade 20 hours for better AI as well. A dozen patches and I still get frozen companions every other combat. Agh.

 

Yeah it does look like they got over excited over the new engine and created way too many areas they wanted to show off but didn't make enough meaningful quests to excuse the areas. I'd definitely rather go back to way more story heavy content. And cinematic conversations. If Fallout 4 can have every single convo look cinematic then there is no excuse not to do it.

[Dobbysaurus]

Yep, it was too big and took way too long to complete it. That's why I couldn't be bothered to finish a second play through. 

[Tidus]

LOL.. I thought I was the only one that thought the game was a tad to long. On the bright side there's no forced  blitz ball tournament stopping the game's progress..

 

I'm on game #4 and taking some short cuts.

[MzChaos]

The world is in danger of being conquered by this or that evil thing......wait, lets stop and help that poor farmer find his pig.

I have thought that very same thing.  And yes, having more main quests and not so many little quests would be nice.  I really would have liked one or two more quests that brought me in direct contact with Corypheus, and perhaps a few more covert operations and/or confrontations concerning Calpernia/Samson.

 

DA:O was better in the respect that most of the things you did were directly related to the main goal and no matter what order you did them in, it flowed smoothly.  I could have done with a lot less shard, mosiac and bottle collecting (take THAT all you drunks in DQ).

[AnimalBoy]

I don't think it's too long but entirely too big. I'm playing it for the third time and i still have a hard time remembering how to get places once i unlock a new area.

[correctamundo]

... lot less shard, mosiac and bottle collecting (take THAT all you drunks in DQ).

 

No problem just leave the bottle collecting to me, I will gladly take all your bottles.

 

[ArcadiaGrey]

Yep, but I like to look at it as a pick and mix.  Each run I pick 3 or 4 areas to ignore, and spend all my time fully exploring the others.  Next time round I'll have new places to go to and can ignore the zones I did last time.

 

The collectables like bottles and shards don't bother me much.

 

If you try to do everything the game will get super out of balance, with way too much open world compared to main quests.  So skip a couple of places and pick and choose what you'd like to do this playthrough, then come back for another go.

 

If you're a completionist, can you try and view it as 2 playthroughs to achieve everything instead?  If not, then trying to do 100% of the game....sheesh, you have my sympathies. 

[Abyss108]

If you don't like all the extra stuff, just don't do it. 

 

I had 150 hours for my first play through and wish it had been longer. 

[Serza]

Buddy.... Lady Inquisitor Lyna Lavellan clocked over a hundred and ninety hours with all DLCs included. Before her, Lady Inquisitor Arianne Lavellan clocked at least one hundred and fifty hours.

 

Now, Lady Inquisitor Ellana Lavellan, she's in it for the achievements, so she's runnin' fast, but even being a speedrun to Skyhold for an achievement, I expect 50+ hours.

 

And yeah, all of my characters are Elves, and all are women. Now stop looking at me like that, I'm an Operator.

 

*Keeps Calm and Operates On*

[Scofield]

To long? no

Coulda been done better? yeah

[Artona]

I agree with general statement, that rpgs are getting too big. I really see no point in games as big as Witcher 3 and I prefer world Dark Souls style - fewer locations, but each one very different and with great atmosphere, and many shortcuts that make possible to quick get from one location to another. From my experience those big locations are usually just excuse for another fight with no story behind. 

But, I think Inquisition handles it pretty well. As someone stated above, most sidequests are usually connected to storyline and doesn't really feel like a terrible waste of time. I'm really glad that it is not enormous sandbox-style world, but few big, but no crazy-big locations - and besides Emerald Graves and Hinterlands (especially Hinterlands) each one has unique feeling, that locations from DAO lacked. I mean, I love those free desert maps. 

So, yeah. That's how I see it. 

[Mocker22]

@Artona....well I guess you just proved a nice point, that different zone are going to get different levels of love from players. I could shoot myself having to run around all these blasted desert zones.

 

Its funny because Witcher 3 felt better to me in this regard. Although you spend a ton of time doing things that don't relate to the store much....there are enough quests that do to keep you doing them on a regular basis. And all of the conversations have a nice feel to them with decent voicing. The world is big and open, but an open world should be big.

 

I think another solution might have been to break up the really big zones into smaller "sub" zones. I like some of the short side quests where you have to go to a zone created specifically for it.

 

I wouldn't mind the length of the game so much if a lot of it didn't feel like such an unneccesary time sink. More compact zones might not feel as realistic I suppose, but man some of them just take too long for me. Hissing Wastes anyone? At least it was worth running around for the phat lewtz Exalted Plains was another one that felt really, really long.

 

The AI really is the big problem. I think they were trying to simplify companions since some people didn't like having to write out tactics for their party. I myself felt like that system was a bit of a lazy cop out but it did allow for companjon versatility too. There is NO excuse whatsoever for Bioware to allow the poor companion performance here. I'm not looking for an AI that makes intelligent use of every ability. I understand how tough that is to program. But in almost every single fight one of two things is guaranteed to happen, a ranged character runs into melee for no reason at all, or a character just stands around doing NOTHING.

[Artona]

 

 

I think another solution might have been to break up the really big zones into smaller "sub" zones. I like some of the short side quests where you have to go to a zone created specifically for it.

 

I like that idea and it would be cool if they used it in DA4. 

 

 

 

The AI really is the big problem. 

 

Agreed. Every time I approach high dragon in Inquisition it initially feels awesome and epic (I think they are pretty much almost perfect dramaturgy-wise), and then really frustrating when my tank gets frozen after using some ability, and then beast decides to use breath weapon on them. 

[nightscrawl]

As a completionist myself, I've gotta say that Bioware is not responsible for our personal mental issues that compel us to explore, loot, read, and collect all the things. They created these areas for those who want to explore them fully, but you don't have to. You can certainly just get through the game in 50 or so hours (or less) by following the main plot points.

 

I'm quite happy they they created this semi-open world where I can revisit areas just to run around, look at the scenery, and so on. After completing the various maps and plots in DAO or DA2 I never had any desire to return to any of those areas.

[Knight of Dane]

Not too big, too empty. If the game had, had the keep functions that the team designed in the beginning I bet you'd find most of the areas of sufficient size.

 

As the game turned out, after you complete everything in a area it's just empty. The "interconnectedness" that Bioware intended with the power struggle against Cory's army was scrabbed and as such all areas became static. They also intended day cycles and weather effects, yet Crestwood is the only area to have this and it is scripted.

[Navasha]

Well, for me as a completionist, I don't actually believe any game can be TOO big.   The problem is that there is a modern trend in gaming where games are only challenging for the first dozen levels or so.     DA:I suffers from this in a big way.    It can be an exciting game up until level 10-12, then it just becomes meaningless tasks.   The combat ceases to be challenging and the whole game becomes a time sink.  

 

If they had managed to keep the player engaged and challenged throughout the entire game it would have been amazing.   As it is, by the time you get to the "tougher" zones, they are a walk in the park.    It is the "walks in the park" part of the game that becomes boring and seemingly endless.  

 

If they need to correct the issue, the solution is NOT to cut back to smaller games, but just put as much effort into making it a challenge as the character progresses. 

 

I ran into this same problem in Fallout 4 recently.   By the time you get to level 30, you are so bored because you can one-shot everything and nothing can touch you.   Luckily modding always saves a Bethesda Game.    Now by the time I hit level 40, I won't run into anything that is less than a level 80 enemy.   Thus allowing me to keep adventuring without boredom.

[nightscrawl]

^ Just FYI, you can bring a lot of the challenge back by using the trials system that was introduced with Trespasser. The half exp combined with enemy level scaling alone does a good job of keeping the areas in range. For added challenge you can also give enemies extra abilities, make potions only heal 1hp, and other such things. Of course, things will be easier as you get higher anyway, despite the level of enemies, simply because you have better gear. But at least it's something.

[CoM Solaufein]

Not long enough. Games as expensive as they are, I expect 100s of hours of game play at least.

[Serza]

To be perfectly fair, I got a couple hundred logged...

[Mocker22]

I would spend more going to the movies twice than it cost to buy DAI and the DLC. 4 hours of entertainment vs close to 100 on just one good playthrough? Its not a money thing.

[AlanC9]

Not long enough. Games as expensive as they are, I expect 100s of hours of game play at least.

Yeah, but I'd prefer to get that through, say, five 40-hour playthroughs rather than two 100-hour playthroughs.

[vbibbi]

^ Just FYI, you can bring a lot of the challenge back by using the trials system that was introduced with Trespasser. The half exp combined with enemy level scaling alone does a good job of keeping the areas in range. For added challenge you can also give enemies extra abilities, make potions only heal 1hp, and other such things. Of course, things will be easier as you get higher anyway, despite the level of enemies, simply because you have better gear. But at least it's something.

I agree that this helps, but it's only available for current gen, and it is the last patch for the game. So for me it's a matter of too little too late.

[Dai Grepher]

I don't think it was too big or too long. I thought it could have been longer actually, with some more content, but I think the problem was that it was too unfocused. The zones were just big areas where you could run around at your own pace and complete various missions at random or in an order you desired. But none of it was that focused.

 

Personally, I didn't have much of a problem with this since I structured everything in a way that made sense to the main storyline. For example, I completed HLTA after taking the Western Approach, which allowed me to set up an army stronghold in that area. I then completed all the Chore Table missions in that region in an order that preveted the Venatori from fleeing back north to Tevinter. Meaning I had the Tevinter allies ready to kill any Venatori running from their main force being destroyed in the region.

 

Same with the Temple of Mythal. I had to fight my way there first by taking out the strongholds in the Exalted Plains, then Emprise du Lion, then the Emerald Graves. Then I went in with the armies and crushed the remaining forces.

 

This left Corypheus with some time to try and salvage his plans with his remaining Venatori generals after Calpernia deserted him. This is where the Qunari alliance came in. I did Bull's quest, protected the dreadnaught, and then went through the missions to stop the Venatori fire ship, clear out Venatori spies in Skyhold and beyond, and only after the Venatori were completely destroyed did Corypheus make his move in the final battle.

 

So I was able to structure this free-for-all storyline in a way that made sense and provided for a longer story (compared to skipping the content). But what I think BioWare should have done was structure all of this themselves for players to have a logical flow of storyline. I also think they should have cut off certain areas of the maps so that only smaller portions of the maps are available at different stages of the game. This would have made it so the game doesn't seem like a drag, like spending 60 hours in just the Hinterlands alone doing dozens of quests. There should have been a logical leave/return system in place. For example, you go there to get Mother Giselle, but while you are there you can stop the militant mages and templars. Then contact Dennet. Then you leave to build the watchtowers and such. Then go to Val Royeaux. Then you should be able to come back and have new missions in the Hinterlands, such as clearing out the bandits, or fighting the dragon, or exploring Vallamar. But as it stands, you can do all these things in your first visit.

 

So the game requires the players to set the pace, and in your first playthrough you're not going to know what should or should not be done first. I did well my first playthrough, but my only companions at the time were Cassandra, Varric, and Solas. This was fine, but had I been cut off from exploring further, I might have returned with different companions, which I did in subsequent playthroughs.

[MzChaos]

I'm not so much as a completionist when it comes to the collectables, however,I do like to clear maps of diamonds, exclamation marks and rift starbursts.  I am, and always will be an XP junkie.

 

I keep reading where folks are unhappy with how their companions behave in combat and how they keep dying and are confused.  I rarely lose anyone in fights.  But then I have to remind myself that it is because not only have I played the darned game to completion 5.7 times, not including the 5 or so times I made it half-way then realized I had messed up somehow (thus knowing what to avoid and when), but that I make sure I am a level or few above what I need to be to do whatever it is I am doing.

 

I like it that way.  The fights are quicker.  And... I must admit... it does the ego good to be a mage and wipe out a cluster of enemies before my tank can get their sword from its scabbard.

 

But I cannot think of anything, not a single darned thing , that would entice me to pick up those darned shards.  Except perhaps a bronto's weight in gold... it is sad to have to admit that I do have a price.  I can be bought.  I pick up the required amount to unlock the Forbidden Oasis then that's it.  No more.  I have completed a few mosiacs though but have never gotten all of the bottles nor all of the songs.

 

But I'll wring every last drop of XP that I can from whatever source that I am able to do without doing something against my code of honor.