35 réponses à ce sujet

[capn233]

There shouldn't be teleportation in ME, even though it strangely appeared in ME3 in the form of the magic beam and several magic MP characters.

[Laughing_Man]

It's debatable in the same sense that the theory of evolution or round earth is

 

Right... No offense, but you have a huge bias when it comes to Quarians or synthetics.

 

I mean, the only thing you found wrong with the MP is the EDI clones, and not let's say the Prothean zombies

that are somehow "Awakened" despite being made of nothing but reaper tech and some synthesized meat.

(see Mordin's analysis of the Collectors)

 

Let me ask you: How do you think you will perform in combat after having your body flooded with antibiotics due to a suit breach? (Source: Tali, Reegar)

With the same efficiency? No hallucinations, dizziness, and other symptoms that tend to occur in this case, or if the body is fighting an infection?

 

The simple fact is that Quarians simply can't shrug off a minor injury in the middle of combat by slapping on it some medi-gel and continuing

as if nothing happened like other races. Therefore they are objectively inferior in this area on the battlefield, in the same way that an average human grunt is relatively inferior because he can't take the punishment a Krogan can, or perform Biotics feats like an Asari huntress.

 

(that is not to say of course that specific Quarians / Humans can't be better soldiers - I'm referring to the average here,

and to the physiological realities that they need to deal with)

 

But don't let let me interrupt your master race fantasy.

[Quarian Master Race]

Right... No offense, but you have a huge bias when it comes to Quarians or synthetics.

Which I fully acknowledge. That doesn't make the empirical evidence, and the arguments I provide based upon them any less valid. It's literally impossible for anyone to be unbiased in an argument, so this is pointless to mention.

Also, you trying to claim moral highground in lacking bias on this issue is absolutely hilarious, considering your posting history. If I'm such an easy target, why you can't simply formulate a decent counterargument with the in "lore" evidence and examples you are attempting to claim, instead of whining that your opponent is biased when they outmaneuver you is anyone's guess.
 

 

I mean, the only thing you found wrong with the MP is the EDI clones, and not let's say the Prothean zombies

that are somehow "Awakened" despite being made of nothing but reaper tech and some synthesized meat.

(see Mordin's analysis of the Collectors)

The Collector's description as a sapient creature makes no sense, but those descriptions rarely make sense (i.e. the Quarian Marksman is described as being an explosives expert when he has no attacks involving explosives). The character itself is fine and doesn't stretch my suspension of disbelief nearly as much as a bunch of illegal unshackled AI's running around in full view of the Council forces, whose platforms (and likely software) were also somehow reverse engineered from a unique Cerberus prototype (which only Shep and Co. had access to) made partially using Reaper tech in a month or so while Earth and most of the Alliance's colonies were under siege by a superior force.
http://masseffect.wi...thrallment_Team
^ta da. Reaper creatures fighting against their masters. As long as it's still making unintelligible bug noises instead of holding a conversation with me, I have no issue. 
 

Let me ask you: How do you think you will perform in combat after having your body flooded with antibiotics due to a suit breach? (Source: Tali, Reegar)

With the same efficiency? No hallucinations, dizziness, and other symptoms that tend to occur in this case, or if the body is fighting an infection?

Still much better than some human or asari who has a much more serious issue, like having their arm blown off because their kinetic barrier tech (which is the primary defense against bullets in the MEverse, not meat) isn't as good as the average quarian's, or they supposedly aren't as physically resilient (this is canon according to both comments by Grunt and MP statistics). Besides, you're acting like literally ever soldier who ever enters combat is going to be shot in every engagement. That's ridiculous before you even consider that the quarians are renowned as combat tacticians, with their ground combat doctrine seemingly centered around inflicting disproportionate kill rates with small unit tactics, while disengaging in encounters where the opposition has superior force and nuking it from orbit.

 

The simple fact is that Quarians simply can't shrug off a minor injury in the middle of combat by slapping on it some medi-gel and continuing

as if nothing happened like other races. Therefore they are objectively inferior in this area on the battlefield, in the same way that an average human grunt is relatively inferior because he can't take the punishment a Krogan can, or perform Biotics feats like an Asari huntress.

Where is this "simple fact" in lore? I can use medi gel with/on a quarian in single or multiplayer to revive them all the same as any other character, and don't remember any instances from non gameplay sources of this being the case for other species but not quarians. In fact, Lemm'Shal nar Tesleya from Ascenscion is specifically healed from his gunshot wound to the leg by the application of said Medi-Gel (he does have to manually seal the breach in his boot, though). My lack of expectation for you to provide a counterexample aside, pointing out the existence of an essentially space magic medicine to expose the alleged (but again not at all displayed) argument about a species whose primary weakness is the lack of infinite space magic medicine probably isn't a good line of reasoning to take, anyway.

You're essentially making an ecological fallacy here. Just because the quarian species as a whole could not sustain ground combat operations for the same length of time or on the same scale as a horde of krogan for logistical reasons (not enough medical supplies, or enough disposable people at all for that matter; the population of the entire species is less than that of Romania or Kazakhstan) doesn't mean that they can't individually make effective combatants. If we had scenes at priority Earth with a million quarians rushing forward like an army of Stormtroopers, an entire squad of quarians and 20 MP characters it'd be one thing, but we have a single individual over 3 games (whose MOS is essentially a mix of 12B combat engineer and vehicle mechanic anyway, not infantry) and 5 MP characters with highly specialized abilities, some of which we didn't even see in the SP campaign, serving in what is described as a special operations unit.

I'd much sooner take an intelligent tactictian and marksman with cutting edge equipment and engineering skills who is completely devoted to the mission no matter the cost, over an unstable self important brute who solely tries to headbutt things to death in modern combat, were I thinking in practical terms, but that's just me.
 

 

(that is not to say of course that specific Quarians / Humans can't be better soldiers - I'm referring to the average here,

and to the physiological realities that they need to deal with)

 

But don't let let me interrupt your master race fantasy.

Never disputied this (though I wouldn't mention the asari, one of whom self describes the species as "our people are terrible at fighting war", and whom were powerless to defend themselves from mere bugs and battletoads), but you were claiming quarians don't belong in any combat roles (including MP) at all. That you've now changed your argument can I suppose be considered a success.

It isn't a fantasy, it is reality. Only the Salarians even come close in terms of intelligence or adaptability, but they have the advantage of the entire Council socioeconomically advantaged system backing them, rather than being hated and discriminated against by the fearful and jealous lesser races and having to scavenge and innovate, but still coming up with the best tech and most efficient society. The only organic species capable of defeating the geth menace, and the one with the highest worth to the war effort in per capita terms (only capable of being surpassed by the humans in terms of gross War Assets, but they have a population advantage of about 12 billion people, so that's hardly fair). Denial will not change the facts.

[Vortex13]

The Collector's description as a sapient creature makes no sense, but those descriptions rarely make sense (i.e. the Quarian Marksman is described as being an explosives expert when he has no attacks involving explosives). The character itself is fine and doesn't stretch my suspension of disbelief nearly as much as a bunch of illegal unshackled AI's running around in full view of the Council forces, whose platforms (and likely software) were also somehow reverse engineered from a unique Cerberus prototype (which only Shep and Co. had access to) made partially using Reaper tech in a month or so while Earth and most of the Alliance's colonies were under siege by a superior force.

http://masseffect.wi...thrallment_Team
^ta da. Reaper creatures fighting against their masters. As long as it's still making unintelligible bug noises instead of holding a conversation with me, I have no issue. 

 

 

I know this is off topic, but I always took the Awakened Collector's description as Alliance/Council propaganda for the enlisted troops as they brought the Leviathans into the war. I mean, they wouldn't exactly want to let everyone know that the very beings responsible for the creation of the Reapers, and who are quite capable of seizing control of any nearby organics' bodies, and who have an unmitigated god complex to boot are working alongside us. It would make sense that the higher ups would want to downplay the Leviathans, and the concocted story about the Collectors being freed from thralldom would make for a good morale boost. 

 

 

This might all be head cannon, but consider how the Awakened Collector never speaks, never calls out in pain when shot, etc. Also, their heavy melee is a direct copy of Harbinger's Assuming Direct Control animation. I don't think that the Collectors are free from the shackles of Reaper oppression, and now fight for the memory of the lost Prothean empire; I think that these meat puppets have merely obtained a new puppet master.

[Quarian Master Race]

I know this is off topic, but I always took the Awakened Collector's description as Alliance/Council propaganda for the enlisted troops as they brought the Leviathans into the war. I mean, they wouldn't exactly want to let everyone know that the very beings responsible for the creation of the Reapers, and who are quite capable of seizing control of any nearby organics' bodies, and who have an unmitigated god complex to boot are working alongside us. It would make sense that the higher ups would want to downplay the Leviathans, and the concocted story about the Collectors being freed from thralldom would make for a good morale boost. 

 

 

This might all be head cannon, but consider how the Awakened Collector never speaks, never calls out in pain when shot, etc. Also, their heavy melee is a direct copy of Harbinger's Assuming Direct Control animation. I don't think that the Collectors are free from the shackles of Reaper oppression, and now fight for the memory of the lost Prothean empire; I think that these meat puppets have merely obtained a new puppet master.

Yeah, but we've pretty much derailed this thread with a lore shitposting epeen/eboob contest anyway. Sorry OP.

Your interpretation of the Collector is really creative and makes sense. I imagine they'd have to use the same sort of propaganda for all these Reaper creature thralls to maintain morale and unit cohesion. Organics and their petty, raging emotional responses probably wouldn't take kindly to being told to fight next to a Lovecraftian horror made from what used to be their friend Bob from Accounting already, but especially if they knew it was just a meat puppet of actual Cthulhu.

Of course, it'd be nice if they actually did hint at something like this elsewhere, instead of just leaving us with a terrible character description, a war asset entry and nothing else. It's okay though, not the first time they've written a nonsensical character description in MP. The Male Quarian Engineer apparently has a turret I haven't found out how to access in something like 1000 hours of gameplay.

[Commander Rpg]

Let's hear what professor Ruehl can tell us (among other things)

 

[Laughing_Man]

Also, you trying to claim moral highground in lacking bias on this issue is absolutely hilarious, considering your posting history. If I'm such an easy target, why you can't simply formulate a decent counterargument with the in "lore" evidence and examples you are attempting to claim, instead of whining that your opponent is biased when they outmaneuver you is anyone's guess.

 

Contrary to what you may think, I don't hate Quarians, I mostly don't care about them.

 

Anyway, you didn't outmaneuver anyone, you just posted a a huge block of text full of assumptions and speculations.

You are fueled by your outrage and your need to defend the Quarians from every perceived slight, while I simply lack the patience or will to create

a counter-argument wall-of-text.

 

Quarians are not as smart as Salarias according to the ME lore, they also don't have an automatic understanding of technology or an inherent +50 shields race trait.

 

They are simply nomads who had to learn how to make more from less in the last  years, that hardly makes them superior technologically to anyone else, if anything they simply start with less resources and need to use prayers spit and chewing gum to reach around same level as everyone else.

 

Do they have prodigies and special tricks only they know? Probably, but so do other races.

 

In short, assuming a Quarian enters combat with the same resources everyone else does, they better pray that their mostly unarmored suits remain intact. And it's not even an injury that's the only danger when you need to jump and crawl around ruined battlefields, just about anything can rip a body-suit.

 

I think that the lore is rather clear on this, and while headcanon is fine, you are doing a lot of mental gymnastics to get there.

 

But rejoice, there is a silver lining, maybe ME:A (if the Quarians will get there) will allow the Quarians to lord their experience from the migrant fleet on the rest of the milkies, assuming they will need to stay on their mother-ship for some time.

[Quarian Master Race]

Contrary to what you may think, I don't hate Quarians, I mostly don't care about them.

 

Anyway, you didn't outmaneuver anyone, you just posted a a huge block of text full of lore facts.

You are fueled by your outrage and your need to defend the Quarians from every perceived slight, while I simply lack the ability to create

a counter-argument wall-of-text.

FTFY bub, and I even was nice enough to leave the ad-homenim intact. I've seen you create "wall-of-text" on other issues. Weaseling out won't help you here. It's glaringly apparent you lack lore knowledge on these issues and are trying to make an exit. Shouldn't have responded to my initial short rebuttal if you didn't want me to layeth the smackdown.

Also I can likely find the previous posts where you disparagingly voiced your dislike of the "woobies", along with ones fawning over asari and geth, if you'd like to be reminded, Mr. Impartial Observer. Don't be so coy.

 

Quarians are not as smart as Salarias according to the ME lore, they also don't have an automatic understanding of technology or an inherent +50 shields race trait.

You're right, the fact that the quarian MP characters start at 600 and max at 990-1050 shields, compared to only 500-875 for human/asari characters means that they in fact have a +175 shields race trait vs those species for the exact same mobility characteristics, not a mere +50. Master Race status confirmed yet again. You were pretty close on the Salarians, though. We merely match or beat them by +60 shields. All these species have identical health.

Only turians, batarians and krogan have more and don't lose health in return, but it comes at the cost of decreased mobility from an obviously inefficient, heavy barrier generator designed by a lesser species.
 

I think that the lore is rather clear on this, and while headcanon is fine, you are doing a lot of mental gymnastics to get there.

Lol, so now it's "headcanon" to  take cases, quotes and other examples from the canon material games, books and comics, but you contriving "quarians who are disabled by a single scratch" is lore merely because you assert it to be so without any supporting evidence? Not only do the facts disagree with you, you are also losing in the court of public opinion (judging by the like counts).

If i didn't enjoy doing this so much, I'd think I was being counter-trolled by how bad your posts are.

[Geth Supremacy]

[MrFob]

I for one would still like the mass effect (i.e. eezo and ME fields) to be the primary source for all these kinds of "unbelievable" technologies with explanations in the codex on how they work.

 

Now, we know that Mass Relays are basically teleportation devices but they still work by accelerating an object at the departure relay and spitting it out with quite some speed at the destination relay. A ship in space has little issue with that because there is nothing in the way (ideally). The MAKO already gets smashed to bits when it passes through the conduit. To do the same with a human without killing them would be tough I'd imagine. But then for example the reapers had the beam from London up to the citadel which worked for Shep and Anderson, which I guess is a special version of a relay-like thing.

 

So I guess it can be done (although Shep still had a rough ride) but probably only between a sending and a receiving station. If they start introducing teleportation like in Star Trek, I'd be curious as to know how it works with mass effect technology.

 

Also, if the Milky Way people left before the end of ME3, they didn't even know how the normal relays worked, so they shouldn't be able to develop anything like this easily. Depending on when exactly the new game takes place though or if the Andromeda people have this technology already, I can see it plausibly showing up in the game.

 

Personally though, and strictly from a style perspective, I'd stick with the shuttle rides.

[Vortex13]

Yeah, but we've pretty much derailed this thread with a lore shitposting epeen/eboob contest anyway. Sorry OP.

Your interpretation of the Collector is really creative and makes sense. I imagine they'd have to use the same sort of propaganda for all these Reaper creature thralls to maintain morale and unit cohesion. Organics and their petty, raging emotional responses probably wouldn't take kindly to being told to fight next to a Lovecraftian horror made from what used to be their friend Bob from Accounting already, but especially if they knew it was just a meat puppet of actual Cthulhu.

Of course, it'd be nice if they actually did hint at something like this elsewhere, instead of just leaving us with a terrible character description, a war asset entry and nothing else. It's okay though, not the first time they've written a nonsensical character description in MP. The Male Quarian Engineer apparently has a turret I haven't found out how to access in something like 1000 hours of gameplay.

 

 

True, it would have been nice to see a little more integration between the SP and MP narratives (perish the thought  ).

 

But in viewing it as officials trying to shift attention away from the alliance they made with the Leviathans, it would make sense that they would make as little mention of it as possible, outside of the incredibly cheesy bit about former thralls fighting alongside us to avenge the memory of their cycle. Kind of like when the Allies called Stalin "Uncle Joe" in WW2, conveniently forgetting to mention how horrible he was to his own people, his political views etc.