112 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

Shepard isn't even Shepard.  But a program create with Shep's memories.
 
The question is;  What's to keep this one from going Skynet at some point in the future?  Is being voiced my Mark Meer or Jennifer Hale enough to forestall that?

Well, with Reaper technology available for study, and with Reaper ships already shown to be somewhat vulnerable to current technology, it shouldn't be all that long before Reaper forces are possible to defeat conventionally.

Shepalyst only needs to stay non-evil for a few centuries, maybe.

Or they could just build a new Crucible to keep Shep in line.

[DarthSliver]

I could make a compelling neurological argument that there should be no objective difference between the two (an organic mind and a perfectly copied and reconstructed synthetic one based on an organic original), and that proposing otherwise injects metaphysics or vitalism into consciousness unnecessarily - violating parsimony.

No one knows, of course, but our current understanding is that something like "mind uploading" is *probably* possible, and both from an objective perspective AND a subjective perspective, the copy would be indistinguishable from the original.

The paradoxical mind **** comes when you think about the difference between the two if the original isnt destroyed, and coexists simultaneously with the copy. Clearly, the two would be two separate consciousnesses, each having the perspective that they are the original. That alone either implies we are missing a vital component of information theory with respect to the mind, or (more likely in my opinion), that the self is purely illusory and so is the subjective perception of a unique, individual existence that we all have.

If the Control ending actually waxed philosophical on that, I would have found it interesting. As it stands, its basically an "lolz I am der reaper overlord now herpity derp" ending with almost no substance whatsoever...just like all the endings to ME3 have no real substance.

 

 

Destroy feels like a right ending to me because thats what Shepard set out to do since the first game. Poetic to see the hero succeed in their goals. Now to Destroying the Geth, I am sure Legion would've been on board as they probably have platforms outside of the galaxy out of the reach of the beams lol. 

[DarthSliver]

Refuse doesn't win us the war and leaving behind warnings is no guarantee of success. The Protheans did the same thing.

you forget that Liara left multiple copies behind and also with each copy a way to decipher our language so they could access the information. Not to mention the information also contains all the tactical information on the Reapers too. We set up a bigger win  for the next cycle, not to mention if the Raloi succeeded they know and were probably head species of the next cycle. 

 

I also think a bioware dev confirmed Refuse leads to the next cycle winning. 

[Iakus]

I could make a compelling neurological argument that there should be no objective difference between the two (an organic mind and a perfectly copied and reconstructed synthetic one based on an organic original), and that proposing otherwise injects metaphysics or vitalism into consciousness unnecessarily - violating parsimony.

No one knows, of course, but our current understanding is that something like "mind uploading" is *probably* possible, and both from an objective perspective AND a subjective perspective, the copy would be indistinguishable from the original.

The paradoxical mind **** comes when you think about the difference between the two if the original isnt destroyed, and coexists simultaneously with the copy. Clearly, the two would be two separate consciousnesses, each having the perspective that they are the original. That alone either implies we are missing a vital component of information theory with respect to the mind, or (more likely in my opinion), that the self is purely illusory and so is the subjective perception of a unique, individual existence that we all have.

If the Control ending actually waxed philosophical on that, I would have found it interesting. As it stands, its basically an "lolz I am der reaper overlord now herpity derp" ending with almost no substance whatsoever...just like all the endings to ME3 have no real substance.

All evidence in the game indicates that a copy is just that, a copy.  EDI, despite all attempts at understanding and emulating humanity, is not human, and does not experience things as a human does.   Legion found the Reaper thought processes to vast and indescribable, despite being connected to the entire geth consensus.

 

Not to mention the Catalyst explicitly saying Shepard would lose connection to his/her humanity.  Because even with the memories, the perspective changes.  The Shepalyst is a synthetic mind, immortal, and with the collective knowledge of all the Reapers at its fingertips.  Shepard's memories are just more data for the files.  It is no longer human, or even humanoid.  As opposed to the mortal Shepard with a purely organic mind and a far more limited perspective.

[Killroy]

you forget that Liara left multiple copies behind and also with each copy a way to decipher our language so they could access the information. Not to mention the information also contains all the tactical information on the Reapers too. We set up a bigger win for the next cycle, not to mention if the Raloi succeeded they know and were probably head species of the next cycle.

The Protheans left beacons all over the galaxy and we didn't find any of them until like 12 minutes before the invasion was to begin.

I also think a bioware dev confirmed Refuse leads to the next cycle winning.

I recall a pretty prominent dev confirming that the ending wouldn't be a choice between A, B and C...

[Laughing_Man]

I recall a pretty prominent dev confirming that the ending wouldn't be a choice between A, B and C...

 

Stop being such a whiny entitled brat, can't you understand the importance of Artistic Integrity(™)?

[DarthSliver]

Stop being such a whiny entitled brat, can't you understand the importance of Artistic Integrity(™)?

You know refuse is the only one not color coated so it might very well be the canon ending since its not the same ending painted with a coat of red, blue, or green lol

[Fade9wayz]

All evidence in the game indicates that a copy is just that, a copy.  EDI, despite all attempts at understanding and emulating humanity, is not human, and does not experience things as a human does.   Legion found the Reaper thought processes to vast and indescribable, despite being connected to the entire geth consensus.

 

Not to mention the Catalyst explicitly saying Shepard would lose connection to his/her humanity.  Because even with the memories, the perspective changes.  The Shepalyst is a synthetic mind, immortal, and with the collective knowledge of all the Reapers at its fingertips.  Shepard's memories are just more data for the files.  It is no longer human, or even humanoid.  As opposed to the mortal Shepard with a purely organic mind and a far more limited perspective.

Ah, the wonders of hormones. Things would be boring without them.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I really doubt the asari knew about the reapers.

 

Here's a theory I posted about the asari and Andromeda

 

For now, I will say the ship leaves before the events of ME3

 

This solves a lot of problems. The only problem I could find is that they needed a drive that could get to Andromeda without discharging. Now if they'd discovered a derelict proto-reaper it would be possible. This ship would not contain the reaper core that does the indoctrination. It would be one of the ones from before Harbinger, the first true reaper, was built. With its onboard AI completely destroyed in the battle with the Leviathans, all that is left is the drive core, the shell. Perhaps the weapons were destroyed, too.

 

The Asari have absolutely no clue as to where it came from, only that it's well over a billion years old and that whatever built it is long dead. They can't reverse engineer it, but they can recondition it and build a new ship around it. The true reaper hull came later. We can say that in new lore. This drive does not need to discharge.

 

The reason I've been advocating the Asari based project is because they are probably the only species who would actively invite the other species to participate due to Asari reproductive preferences - since they discovered space flight they have preferred to mate with other species. This has also put them in the position of being the lead species on The Council, trying to maintain peace. War between the galactic factions threatens their supply of genetic imprints. Peace is for strictly selfish reasons. There is a delicate balance in the galaxy, and that's why that archive was kept secret. The Asari had to have the galaxy believe they accomplished everything on their own.

 

So all of this takes place centuries before the events of ME1. Humans get there before the events of ME1. We even have Quarians there without their suits. And no Geth needed.

 

This solves the problem of the all the events and choices throughout the Mass Effect series up to and including the ending.

[ZipZap2000]

the forums are a fun place whenever a new game releases lol

Good point, onward!

[Drakoriz]

Yeah my theory is similar to the Asari one but base on Collectors tecnology.

 

For me after the events on ME 2 (doesnt meter if u choose to destroy or no the Collector base), the Alliance and Cerberus, study the collector technology.

 

The alliance (since N7 is again in the lead) with the help of other council races, and Anders and Shapper think on a secret plan to make humanity to survive if they fail to stop the Reapers. And they make this Citadel look ship to make a trip and colonize Andromada Galaxy. This ship is equip the best of the best of the technology and probably sleep pod like the collector use.

 

There are rumors about 2 nerw AI companions, my bet one of this companions was the one flying the ship till Adromeda (like Prometheus)

 

That why i think everything happen after ME2 and before the Reapers invasion.

[ZipZap2000]

I also think a bioware dev confirmed Refuse leads to the next cycle winning.

Not that they needed to, the game actually shows it.

[Kabooooom]

All evidence in the game indicates that a copy is just that, a copy. EDI, despite all attempts at understanding and emulating humanity, is not human, and does not experience things as a human does. Legion found the Reaper thought processes to vast and indescribable, despite being connected to the entire geth consensus.

Not to mention the Catalyst explicitly saying Shepard would lose connection to his/her humanity. Because even with the memories, the perspective changes. The Shepalyst is a synthetic mind, immortal, and with the collective knowledge of all the Reapers at its fingertips. Shepard's memories are just more data for the files. It is no longer human, or even humanoid. As opposed to the mortal Shepard with a purely organic mind and a far more limited perspective.

I am not sure you know what you are arguing against here, as none of the things you brought up actually invalidate what I said. My point was, a synthetic consciousness should be no different than an organic one, if you were to copy every neuron, every synapse, an entire neural architecture and an entire biochemistry in perfect detail, reconstructed to function in a synthetic platform. Alternatively, one could envision an organic brain slowly replaced, over time, with synthetic parts. Nothing in modern neuroscience in real life says that this wouldn't be possible or that a synthetic consciousness wouldn't be just as valid, and indeed Mass Effect clearly takes this position as well. EDI and the Geth are independent, synthetic consciousnesses. Not synthetic copies of organic ones. There are only two examples from the trilogy of mind uploading. One is Project Overlord, the other is the Virtual Aliens. Both examples support my point, as well as the general theme of mass effect about the validity of synthetic minds.