229 réponses à ce sujet

[NM_Che56]

Yes! Let's only be able to save when we pitch tents in certain areas!  

[NM_Che56]

Give us 25 character continue codes!

[Iakus]

This topic is terrible. Not necessarily because comparing old RPG dialogue structures to new ones is terrible, but because you put forth zero effort in the OP to make an argument and instead relied on some crappy cherry-picked memes.

 

 

 

Old RPGs suck, confirmed.

Talk about cherry-picked.  Not to mention grossly misrepresented.

 

That Fallout 2 screenshot is clearly from a "Dumb Chosen One" play, with an Int of 1 or 2, which changes (and severely limits) dialogue options because, well the character is dumb.

 

In other words, those are stat-based options most players won't even see.

[Iakus]

Give us 25 character continue codes!

As opposed to 50 save file limits?

[CronoDragoon]

Talk about cherry-picked.  Not to mention grossly misrepresented.

 

Yes, one might almost think the point was to show how dumb cherry-picking is.

[NM_Che56]

As opposed to 50 save file limits?

 

YEEEESSSS!! TAPE RIBBONS! PLZ! TAPE RIBBONS!!!

[Vox Draco]

Ah...why? Pilllars of Eternity, Divinity, Wasteland 2, Tides of Numeria

 

I think we got the old RPGS covered with people knowing what they are doing...I'd rather have Bioware commit themselves to the RPG-Form they currently make. I liked Baldurs Gate and all that as much as anyone with a sane mind of my generation, but I also loved Dragon Age (all three of them are fun), and Jade Empire, and even Mass Effect before it turned to shite storywise ^^

 

More of that and better and improved is the way to go! Not going back to text-adventures...

 

also choices are WAY overrated. People are obsessed with having choices - which is an illusion anyway. You just choose which page you gonna continue next on the predefined storyline, like one of those convoluted "go down path A - continue page 6, go over the bridge, continue page 17" - style stories. Or, like its often the case as well, all different answers lead to the same outcome anyway...

 

That's actually why we got that messed-up Mass Effect franchise if you ask me (nobody does anyway, we would live in a better world though if people would consult me on these and other matters more regularly. Just visit me, I meditate on top of my Mountain-hermitage 24/7). Choices and consequences got over Bioware's head, and they didn't dare to commit to it. All I say is: Rachni-Queen ... ^^ So I'd rather take a very-well told, straightforward storyline told with grace, speed, commitment and a big emotional payoff in the end than pondering over endless "choices"  like "Oh, do I leave this Krogan alive so I will receive an E-Mail from his mom, or not!" ...

[Iakus]

Ah...why? Pilllars of Eternity, Divinity, Wasteland 2, Tides of Numeria

 

I think we got the old RPGS covered with people knowing what they are doing...I'd rather have Bioware commit themselves to the RPG-Form they currently make. I liked Baldurs Gate and all that as much as anyone with a sane mind of my generation, but I also loved Dragon Age (all three of them are fun), and Jade Empire, and even Mass Effect before it turned to shite storywise ^^

 

I'm flexible on the mechanics, but Maker I want those stories back...

 

 

 

 

also choices are WAY overrated. People are obsessed with having choices - which is an illusion anyway. You just choose which page you gonna continue next on the predefined storyline, like one of those convoluted "go down path A - continue page 6, go over the bridge, continue page 17" - style stories. Or, like its often the case as well, all different answers lead to the same outcome anyway...

That's actually why we got that messed-up Mass Effect franchise if you ask me (nobody does anyway, we would live in a better world though if people would consult me on these and other matters more regularly. Just visit me, I meditate on top of my Mountain-hermitage 24/7). Choices and consequences got over Bioware's head, and they didn't dare to commit to it. All I say is: Rachni-Queen ... ^^ So I'd rather take a very-well told, straightforward storyline told with grace, speed, commitment and a big emotional payoff in the end than pondering over endless "choices"  like "Oh, do I leave this Krogan alive so I will receive an E-Mail from his mom, or not!" ...

I say abandon the import system altogether and make standalone games where choices can actually lead to divergent outcomes.  We can't have that if we have to reset the worldstate after every game.  We'll be doomed to seeing the protagonist get spaced, chantries exploding, and endless amounts of character choiies being trivialized if not outright retconned.

[Sylvius the Mad]

It's easy to have a gazillion different dialogue options or choices when all of it is rendered in text and the view is isometric, with the devs not needing to worry about character animations, cinematic conversations, or cutscenes.

This MASSIVE cost of cinematic presentation too often gets overlooked.

No graphical advancement since NWN has been worth that cost.

[Medhia_Nox]

I have no love for the voiced protagonist, but it's simply not going to happen in mainstream. 

 

There is a whole slew of games that are either out or are being produced.  Yes, they're indie, and because of that you won't get the stunning graphics something like DA:I possesses... but thems the breaks.

 

Bioware is like... CW, WB or FOX

 

Try:

 

Pillars of Eternity

Divinity: Original Sin

Shadowrun: Dragonfall

Shadowrun: Hong Kong

Torment: Tides of Numerea (not yet released)

and Wasteland 2

 

@Vox Draco:  Yes, choice is an illusion in cRPGs, but not in real RPGs - so, I prefer the illusion to be stronger than (choose blue, red or grey)

[Il Divo]

 

 

Pillars of Eternity... Say, wasn't that the old-school brand RPG made that invoked P:T and BG2 as inspirations?  THe game that saved the company?  

 

I'm more than happy for Obsidian (though sadly Chris Avellone left everyone high and dry). But that was kinda my point here: what is the OP willing to give up for those style games? If he's comfortable with old school top down, that's great. And could work. But also about as far from what Bioware seems to want as a company based on every game released since Neverwinter Nights. 

[Iakus]

I'm more than happy for Obsidian (though sadly Chris Avellone left everyone high and dry). But that was kinda my point here: what is the OP willing to give up for those style games? If he's comfortable with old school top down, that's great. And could work. But also about as far from what Bioware seems to want as a company based on every game released since Neverwinter Nights. 

Speaking fro myself, I'd give up a lot.  I have played every single game of Medhia_Nox's list (including Torment's Early Access) and find they contain so much that AAA games simply ignore nowadays.

 

But my point was that this old school, isometric, silent protagonist game saved a company that was floundering after making more "modern" rpgs.

[Mdizzletr0n]

All I really want is for a bit more RPG into ME:A and less twitch shooter (Doesn't mean a return to turn-based combat, although I wouldn't mind that. Lol) Probably not going to happen though.

[Quarian Master Race]

Dear Bioware, please back Pong.  That's when gaming was in top form, (sighs).

Yeah right, that game was just an inferior, dumbed down ripoff of Tennis for Two.

The gaming industry has been going downhill since Bertie the Brain.

[Oni Changas]

Player choice and many other things that game companies did with their games is what made RPGs great back then, I remember being able to choose from 6 different choices on how to deal with raiders in the old fallout... Same for the old BioWare here is what I mean - 

 

 

Best post on this forum, jokes aside. This is EXACTLY what I've been saying for a few years now. DLC today was a challenge of in game code back then just like quality and originality mattered then and quantity and capitulation are what people within the industry seem to think matters now. **** that.

[sjsharp2011]

Personally i very much value the voiced PC so i can't say i agree that going backwards in that regards is either good or likely.

 

 

Yeah while I do like DAO a lot it is one of the things I don't like about that game either. I prefer to have my characters have a voice so in that regard I like the fact they've changed that. I can see why people prefer the older styles though as it did allow for more choice in certain areas as they could focus more on other areas as it allowed them to do that but of the 2 I'd prefer to keep the voiced  protaganist. Even if it does sometimes mean making other sacrifices

[Larry-3]

90s? No. In fact, I believe that RPG's were at their height from about 2003 to about 2010.

[MrFob]

I am quite happy with how the presentation of RPGs developed. I am also ok with having a few less dialogue options in favor of good voice over and a cinematic feel (frankly, I ma not sure if I could play through a text monster like BG or Morrowind again these days).

 

What we really need is not to go back to the 90s but to cleverly design RPGs that can use these modern techniques of presentation without the inherent limitations becoming obvious. Great games were made already this way, let's just hope that BW can find/has found the talent to make it happen for the next ME game.

[Master Warder Z_]

YEEEESSSS!! TAPE RIBBONS! PLZ! TAPE RIBBONS!!!

 

You mean ink ribbons?

[Master Warder Z_]

90s? No. In fact, I believe that RPG's were at their height from about 2003 to about 2010.

 

Fallout 3 came out in 2008...

 

._.

[Larry-3]

Fallout 3 came out in 2008...

._.

Was Fallout 3 a disappointment to you, Warder Z?

[pdusen]

As someone who bought Divinity, PoE and Wasteland 2 before finally concluding that I'm just not a fan of those kinds of games, I'd like Bioware to just keep being Bioware, thanks.

I say abandon the import system altogether and make standalone games where choices can actually lead to divergent outcomes. We can't have that if we have to reset the worldstate after every game. We'll be doomed to seeing the protagonist get spaced, chantries exploding, and endless amounts of character choiies being trivialized if not outright retconned.

Divergent outcomes that the next game in the series pretends didn't happen are utterly pointless.

[Sylvius the Mad]

90s? No. In fact, I believe that RPG's were at their height from about 2003 to about 2010.

DAO (2009) was excellent, but I can't think of another genuinely good RPG from that period.

Crusader Kings II is one of the best RPGs released in the 21st century, and it's not even an RPG.

[Sylvius the Mad]

As someone who bought Divinity, PoE and Wasteland 2 before finally concluding that I'm just not a fan of those kinds of games, I'd like Bioware to just keep being Bioware, thanks.

There's some disagreement as to what BioWare is.

I still think if BioWare as the company that made NWN. Where can I find those games now?

Divergent outcomes that the next game in the series pretends didn't happen are utterly pointless.

The next game would be entirely standalone. Each game could use a different canon.

[Gothfather]

Talk about cherry-picked.  Not to mention grossly misrepresented.

 

That Fallout 2 screenshot is clearly from a "Dumb Chosen One" play, with an Int of 1 or 2, which changes (and severely limits) dialogue options because, well the character is dumb.

 

In other words, those are stat-based options most players won't even see.

OMG.

 

Do you know what sarcasm is?

 

The whole point of the two examples shown was that you CAN cherry pick dialogue to show either older or newer games with less dialogue options. You complain that it is cherry picked yet that was the whole POINT of the the post. Taking two pictures of two games that are obviously cherry picked means you can "prove" any position you want.

 

Yet your complaint is that the two examples CronoDragoon used where cherry picked? Please tell me how was CronoDragoon suppose to give an example of cherry picking without showing the exact opposite example of the OP's cherry picking?

 

How can you be so bloody clueless? Or are you just so fraking blind to your position that you can't handle anything that puts a dent into your opinion based argument so it must be attacked? How about you get out of the knee jerk reactions and THINK.