147 réponses à ce sujet

[ArcaneEsper]

I am someone who has always played elf mage, across all series.

I would love to know why the majority of video gamers-- especially here!-- are so radically anti-mage, anti-elf. Save the BS story excuses. I see this sentiment literally everywhere. Video game designers hate mages and make magic deliberately crappy. Players everywhere are deathly offended that anyone else but a human warrior should be in a game, much less exist as a playable character.

I can't say I've seen this sentiment anywhere as strongly as you describe but I'd venture a guess, that in general it might stem from the narrative on occasion tending to make these parties seem like "poor, defenseless people who were wronged by literally everyone" and people dislike having to pity them all the time? Of course I don't see it that way but it might be a reason.

The other possibility I see, is that perhaps those anti-elf and anti-mage folk are put off by the more...uh, "enthusiastic" elements of the pro-elf and pro-mage side? A case of "I don't like the fans so I don't like what they're fans of", can't really think of anything else to explain what you described.

[Medhia_Nox]

I am someone who has always played elf mage, across all series. 

 

I would love to know why the majority of video gamers-- especially here!-- are so radically anti-mage, anti-elf. Save the BS story excuses. I see this sentiment literally everywhere. Video game designers hate mages and make magic deliberately crappy. Players everywhere are deathly offended that anyone else but a human warrior should be in a game, much less exist as a playable character.

 

Your hyperbole aside.

Because both elves and mages are notoriously arrogant douches with superiority complexes... and, sadly, sometimes that rubs off on the people that play them.  (You can see this very clearly in all the whining threads about mages and how powerful they should be)

 

The problem with DA mages... is that they're nothing like wizards.  Wizards (wise-men) work to obtain their power and because of that are often portrayed as intellectual and wise beyond their years and knowing things normal people are not privy to.  DA mages are like Marvel mutants... they just get power whether they're responsible or not... and you can rage all you like, but DA mages on average are neither notably intelligent or responsible, in most cases they are the opposite.

 

Not only is raging with your fireballs an idiotic way to show that you are NOT the uber dangerous loose canon the world believes you to be... it's wrong and evil regardless of who hurt your feelings.  The mages of DA have hurt feelings and then become abominations... blood mages or just straight up start blasting people. 

 

DA elves?  For me... it's the Dalish I hate.  As a casual student of aboriginal folklore, history and culture I find them to be the most abhorrent stereotypes of modern nature lovers masquarading as aboriginal animistic peoples.  

 

And lastly, I hate victims... that is, I hate people who want to remain a victim... and the DA elves and mages are obsessed with their victimhood and I find it anathema to my tastes.

 

@TK514:  Totally agree with you.  If you ask him what he would have done had his plan worked... Solas even says:  Oh, yeah... I'd have totally torn the Veil down.  He's a sick megalomaniac and needs to be killed or Tranquilized whichever he finds more "humane"... or, perhaps imprisoned with his relatives... I'm sure they'd LOVE to have him.

 

He KNOWS there's going to be a huge explosion, that's what he hoped would kill Cory... he doesn't care where it happens so long as Corypheus gets the orb working.  Could have been the middle of the Hissing Wastes... or downtown Denerim.  Does Solas care?  Of course he doesn't. 

 

He must have also known that someone like the Divine would be what Cory did you activate the orb... the Divine was not just chosen at random for Corypheus' plot...

[Artona]

Medhia_Nox - I really like your observation about "mages" and "wizards". It's a very good point.

 

Notabene - it really annoys that as elven Inquisitor, at the end of Trespasser, when Solas tells you that he wants to destroy the world to make elves dominating culture again, you can offer to help him ("yea, I totally want to eradicate those shems!"), but I really can't recall any dialogue option as human Inquisitor that would be straighly anti-elvish, like "those knife-ears need another Exalted March!".

[Dai Grepher]

Nah, mages do just find being the villains.

 

I do believe that a mage fits the story better for Inquisition though. The state of mages after Kirkwall, the Conclave, Corypheus, and the Venatori is disastrous. And now Solas. Thedas needed a mage who would stand for all and be a good example.

[Toasted Llama]

I find it a bit odd that "I like the mages/I like the elves" apparently has to be synonymous to "they've never done anything wrong ever and are total victims of the ewul hoomans".

 

I'm personally a big fan of elves, especially the Dalish. I love mythology and the whole nature theme running through their designs (also a big fan of facial tattoos and the intricate designs, so I had that going for them). I liked them even more when in DA:I all of the flaws of the elves came to light;

 

- their mages were power hungry

- their demise was their own fault, NOT the fault of Tevinter/humans

- even the elves were not above slavery

- the Dalish believe only what they want to believe

 

What this shows me is that the elves are a race that still need to overcome their own shortcomings, they still have hurdles to pass and mistakes to fix. But instead of putting the blame on external sources ("WE'RE SO OPPRESSED!"), pretending to be perfect victims, they have to overcome something that they've caused themselves.

 

What's more interesting? Being born good or being born bad and overcoming oneself through sheer willpower and strength? I'd argue the latter.

 

Of course, the exact same can be said for ANY demographic; mages have to overcome their own powers and learn to control them, humans have the whole Chantry and Templar issues to fix, the Qunari have to get out of their troll-logic communist dogma and the dwarves have to get over their ideal of isolation and, quite frankly, their discrimination towards 'surfacers'. Even the Grey Wardens have to fix their sometimes unhealthy and possibly dangerous (see Commander Clarel) obsession with ending the Blight.

This is why I don't necessarily dislike any demographic, but also don't glorify one over another, which I see happen far too often.

[Drakoriz]

hmmm i play elf mage, not bc game force me is bc i kind like to play elfs on games, and mages after DA2 since i love the new casting attacks.

 

Still i only did go to the mages bc the whole Magister and Tavinter reason, the Templar intro quest, feel wierd for me, i didnt feel any reason to go and investigate why they where acting as big assholes. Didnt regret the whole time travel feel super coo.

[Lazarillo]

I honestly can't say I have a particular affinity or lack thereof for any particular group.  I have no personal interest in either helping the "oppressed" of Thedas, nor in oppressing them, only an interest in where it takes the story (which has, so far, generally been to good places).  That doesn't mean my individual characters don't have opinions, but I don't really think of the player characters as "me", anymore than, say, Donnen Brennokovic is Varric.  Nor do I really follow the philosophy that any given race or background is "boring", or the mentality that "I'm human in real life, so why would I want to be human in a game" that I see frequently, for the same reasons.

 

One thing I do enjoy is playing a character who is in a good position to learn, since it sort of excuses why my character, who is not me, would still do and ask things that I, as the player, am really the one interested in knowing.  It's why the Dalish origin appeals to me, since it's so much of an outsider, and why, despite the story in Inquisition giving so much background on Elves, I like to play Inquisitors who are not Elves, so that they come into the story with something of a neutral perspective.

[Dai Grepher]

Dragon Age is the story of humans in human lands dealing with human issues. The dwarves and elves are people of an ancient era. The present is the humans' time... while time remains. In DA4 we will try to save our human world, again.

[CardButton]

Dragon Age is the story of humans in human lands dealing with human issues. The dwarves and elves are people of an ancient era. The present is the humans' time... while time remains. In DA4 we will try to save our human world, again.

And the Qunari? If anything they seem to be a newer product of the era than even humanity is.  In DA4 we could be playing in Qunari lands dealing with Qunari issues and while our time remains ... saving our Qunari world.  The evil humans are a relic of an ancient era and we must defeat them in order to protect our Qunari way of existence. 

[Toasted Llama]

And the Qunari? If anything they seem to be a newer product of the era than even humanity is.  In DA4 we could be playing in Qunari lands dealing with Qunari issues and while our time remains ... saving our Qunari world.  The evil humans are a relic of an ancient era and we must defeat them in order to protect our Qunari way of existence. 

 

And a bald human will try to take down the Veil to merge the human cities with the Golden City of the Maker :U

[Andrew Lucas]

All elves should just die.

[Dai Grepher]

And the Qunari? If anything they seem to be a newer product of the era than even humanity is.  In DA4 we could be playing in Qunari lands dealing with Qunari issues and while our time remains ... saving our Qunari world.  The evil humans are a relic of an ancient era and we must defeat them in order to protect our Qunari way of existence. 

 

The Qunari are a human creation, allegedly. But they do signify the threat that the humans may just follow the dwarves and elves into obscurity because of their own many screw-ups.

 

But the Qunari don't want to wipe out humans or let them die out. They will preserve humans by breeding them properly.
 

[CardButton]

The Qunari are a human creation, allegedly. But they do signify the threat that the humans may just follow the dwarves and elves into obscurity because of their own many screw-ups.

 

But the Qunari don't want to wipe out humans or let them die out. They will preserve humans by breeding them properly.
 

LOL I was being a bit snarky because of how Human-centric your post was. 

 

What I like about Dragon Age as a fantasy franchise is that while yes there is a lot of Human based content as they are one of the two predominant power races in the world (the Qunari being the second) there is a lot of things that relate to the older two races too: Dwarves and Elves.  Mostly I like that this franchise doesn't seem to be following in LoTR and SoIaF's footsteps in that the other races are putting up a fight for the survival of their races and cultures; unlike with the other two series where they are pretentiously giving up ... because I guess humans are great? 

[In Exile]

Opinions are pretty split on the Dalish, but where's the proof there's a great deal of anti-mage or anti-city elf sentiment? To me it seems to be the opposite. But then maybe I've just unjustifiably assumed I'm in the majority for both.

[In Exile]

The Qunari are a human creation, allegedly. But they do signify the threat that the humans may just follow the dwarves and elves into obscurity because of their own many screw-ups.

 

But the Qunari don't want to wipe out humans or let them die out. They will preserve humans by breeding them properly.
 

 

The Qunari are arguably a creation, but where's the connection to being a human one?

[pepper]

I.ve always been pro Elf but with DAI I just feel more immersed in the game playing an elf mage. Spellcasters and archers are my go to class usually.

If the elf origin had been city elf I probably would have went archer. I did try one human mage playthru but didn't really get in to it but then I like to play

a fantasy character . Lol I,m human in real life, I prefer a more mystical character for gaming. I think it just really depends on individual preferences.

[Dai Grepher]

The Qunari are arguably a creation, but where's the connection to being a human one?

 

Something about one of the mosaics, and Kieran saying their blood doesn't belong to them. And Corypheus tells the Vashoth Inquisitor that his race is a mistake. There could be more, but from what I remember, the implication was that Tevinter experimented on crossbreeding or gene splicing or something, and the Kossith were born. Also Iron Bull theorizes that maybe Qunari have dragon blood in them.
 

[AntiChri5]

Something about one of the mosaics, and Kieran saying their blood doesn't belong to them. And Corypheus tells the Vashoth Inquisitor that his race is a mistake. There could be more, but from what I remember, the implication was that Tevinter experimented on crossbreeding or gene splicing or something, and the Kossith were born. Also Iron Bull theorizes that maybe Qunari have dragon blood in them.
 

There's no reason it had to have been humans, though.

 

Could have been elves.

[Ieldra]

I am someone who has always played elf mage, across all series. 

 

I would love to know why the majority of video gamers-- especially here!-- are so radically anti-mage, anti-elf. Save the BS story excuses. I see this sentiment literally everywhere. Video game designers hate mages and make magic deliberately crappy. Players everywhere are deathly offended that anyone else but a human warrior should be in a game, much less exist as a playable character.

I'm reasonably sure such a sentiment would be *less* prevalent here. Applied to fantasy fiction in general, the reasons may be as follows:

 

People may tend so see mages as "other" and more powerful because of their superpowers, and see elves as "other" because they're frequently portrayed as morally superior in fiction. Add an instrinsic predisposition to favor the familiar and dislike the unfamiliar, especially if it's more powerful than you, and both groups will be disliked without reflection by specific demographics, which have a lesser presence on these forums than on, say, the Witcher forums (at least in my experience).

 

Meanwhile, mages will be liked, among others, by those who are attracted to the "other" (you may call them xenophiles), while elves will be liked by those who like to see themselves as morally superior, and both attitudes will be violently disliked by the same demographic.

 

In DA, attitudes are slightly different but still mages and elves are likely to be hated by the same demographic. Mages, because they represent immunity to social control, and elves because they hold up a mirror to humans showing our predisposition for racism (Yes, I do claim we all have that disposition. We also have a balancing predisposition for fairness. Which sentiment wins is different for most people).

 

There are more reasons to dislike either group but I think this is what lies behind the unreflected, more violent sentiments. Having said that, I think attitudes towards the mageborn are mostly balanced around here, and I say that as a player who prefers to play mages as a rule, for the same reason they're disliked by some, namely, that they can be envisioned as being more socially independent than non-mages. About attitudes towards elves, I haven't seen a dominant tendency for hating elves. Sure, many dislike the Dalish but Solas appears to be the most favored romance option, and you have to play an elf in order to have him. I think there's little hate for elves as a race - most people sympathize with the city elves but dislike the Dalish. 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

The problem with DA mages... is that they're nothing like wizards.  Wizards (wise-men) work to obtain their power and because of that are often portrayed as intellectual and wise beyond their years and knowing things normal people are not privy to.  DA mages are like Marvel mutants... they just get power whether they're responsible or not... and you can rage all you like, but DA mages on average are neither notably intelligent or responsible, in most cases they are the opposite.

 

Not only is raging with your fireballs an idiotic way to show that you are NOT the uber dangerous loose canon the world believes you to be... it's wrong and evil regardless of who hurt your feelings.  The mages of DA have hurt feelings and then become abominations... blood mages or just straight up start blasting people. 

 

QFT !

 

Mages in Thedas are Sorcerers/Mutants who can become abomination when they decide to have extreme feelings. No Wizard I know gets possessed by Demons.

[GoldenGail3]

I don't really care.... Really I don't.

[stop_him]

Yup. 

[Medhia_Nox]

QFT !

 

Mages in Thedas are Sorcerers/Mutants who can become abomination when they decide to have extreme feelings. No Wizard I know gets possessed by Demons.

 

I actually don't mind that they can get possessed by demons.  What I hate is Bioware's handling of their suggested lore.

 

The concept... is that a mage in DA must have strong willpower.  This I find very appealing as a requirement.  Most people really have no idea what strong willpower is.  Being an obstinate a-hole is NOT strong willpower.  Being a slave to your emotions is NOT strong willpower. 

 

I liked what DA:O had to say about mages... how mages, despite their phenomenal power were always hunted by forces beyond the world because:  "True tests never end."  And they shouldn't have... not for player mages, not for NPC mages - but they did (that the "test" for the Warden mage never shows up again is a missed opportunity.)

 

Connor... Jowan... Uldred... even Zathrian... DA:O sets a standard for mages that requires them to stand up and at LEAST be accountable for their emotions (actually something far more difficult than the mere fact learning of - let's say D&D wizards.)  Time and again the mages of DA:O fail... and the consequences are dire.  This was good fiction in my opinion.

 

Why the abomination theme of the Tower of Ferelden was dropped is beyond me.  It seemed like a perfect "other evil" foil for the Darkspawn.  Those abominations talk about being an abomination as if it's the perfect evolution of spirit and mage... I was sure that this new age would be nigh when spirits poured through the Veil and mages were running amok... but, alas... I spent DA:I fighting Inky, Blinky, Clyde and Pinky all throughout southern Thedas instead.

 

Then, it seems somewhere along the line someone said:  "Wouldn't they be cooler as superheroes!?  YEAH!"  And then every mage was SURE they were resistant to demons.  All the "dangers" were just mere inconveniences for "moar magix!"

 

A group of radicals hellbent on feeding off their rage who make the MOST suitable finger puppets for an extra-dimensional force intent on invading Thedas... and, nothing.  Tossed out for some hackneyed story about victimization. 

 

So... instead of mages who have to "be the best" because being anything else means being demon chow... we have a subculture of malcontents obsessed with their own victimization and each one carrying around a basket of hand grenades.  No thank you.

 

At first it genuinely surprised me that any supposed fan of the "wizard" would like what DA mages had become post DA:O - then, the boards changed my dislike of the new DA mage to outright disdain (I can't say I've ever "hated" something in a video game.  Hate is a really strong emotion that requires a LOT of effort... and I simply don't care enough to "hate" DA mages... or elves for that matter.)

 

NOTE:  I like DA:O and DA:I and I tolerate DA:2... disliking where the lore is being taken does not deeply effect my enjoyment of the games.  I consider it mostly just pandering to the lowest common denominator. 

 

So... anyway, I always play wizards/mages/whatever... but DA NPC mages?  On average they disgust me. 

 

The elves are another matter altogether. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Solas has the largest body count of any evil dobadder in the series.

Though, most of his victims were the ancient elves that died when he created the veil because their floating cities were no longer floaty.

So...call it even?

 

Well depending on how exactly you count the bodies, you could make a case that Corypheus has him beat if you include all the victims of the Blight.

[Dabrikishaw]

I like playing as humans the most, not because they're easier to relate to but because they have the largest amount of reactions from NPCs.

 

I have no issues with playing elves, dwarves, or Qunari PCs but I don't fanboy their races' cultures.

 

The Dalish suck. The Noble Dwarves are short sighted and refuse to acknowledge those on the surface or in the slums. The Qun needs to be destroyed.

 

I'm moderately pro-mage, but I like Templars.

 

I don't like the Chantry.