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[Knight of Dane]

She tells you. Because the Inquisition is who she beleives will save Thedas, and her being their ally makes her able to be a part of determining what the Inquisition becomes, supposedly. Obviously since Inquisition is a bad role playing game there isn't actually any real choices in that regard.

 

As in regards to Bastien, staying with him and weeping won't save him. She tells you that she had hired a Chevalier to kill the Wyvern, she only involves the Inquisitor because he becomes unavailable (does he die?)

 

Try playing the game again, if you paid attention you would know these things. I don't think she ever lied in these cases, if ever.

[vbibbi]

I do find it strange that she never has the breaking point where she abandons the Inquisition like some others do. I guess it really shows that she thinks the Inquisition is the only hope of regaining stability.

[Tidus]

Given a choice between Vivienne and Fiona I would choose Fiona.. At least I know her game plan.

[CardButton]

Given a choice between Vivienne and Fiona I would choose Fiona.. At least I know her game plan.

...what game plan?  What she did ended in disaster and unless you side with the mages it ends in the enslavement and destruction of her and all her followers.  It's rather apparent that she had no game-plan beyond "FREEDOM" from the circles.

 

Yup, the Rebel Mages certainly had the freedom to make themselves the enemies of all the mundane citizens, nobels and causally the Templars through a series of remarkably bad decisions and ultimately require a completely separate force to bail them out of the grave they dug for themselves.   Also, since they apparently had little to no regard for those same mundanes I sure hope they planned on forcing some of their number the "freedom" to become farmers on land they cant get (because the Nobels hate and mistrust them for all the violence their apostate friends are inflicting on the countryside); or risk their entire population starving to death because they destroyed their only previous source of income "Enchantment" when they abandoned or killed large portions of the Tranquil population.

 

... that was one hell of a game plan. 

[Iakus]

She wants power.  She doesn't care about or possibly even love Bastion, everything this woman does is for a position of power.  So she definitely doesn't need you to get a heart for her, she wants to be divine, which is why she sought you out.  You have the influence to get her to that position.

She did love Bastien.  But she also recognized the threat the Breach held as well as whoever caused it.  If there's no world to save, there's not much point in saving Bastien, after all

 

Remember she not only joins the Inquisition herself, she puts the resources and personnel of the Montsimmard Circle (the faction of the mages that stayed loyal to the Chantry at the Inquisition's disposal.

 

I also don't think she set out to be Divine.  A mage Divine was a pretty wild concept.  But I do think she was angling for the Grand Enchanter spot.  Fiona's job.  She did mention how she should have retired and spend her days puttering around in a garden rather than leading the Circles.

[Catilina]

„But she also recognized the threat the Breach held as well as whoever caused it.”

 

Oh, she so smart! What skill of situation awareness!

[Beerfish]

She wants power.  She doesn't care about or possibly even love Bastion, everything this woman does is for a position of power.  So she definitely doesn't need you to get a heart for her, she wants to be divine, which is why she sought you out.  You have the influence to get her to that position.

Oh I think she did love Bastion but I agree with everything else you said.  In my 1st play through she became divine as I didn't really influence the others and was romancing Cassandra.  I was horrified how things played out in the epilogue with here as divine.

[AFA]

...what game plan?  What she did ended in disaster and unless you side with the mages it ends in the enslavement and destruction of her and all her followers.  It's rather apparent that she had no game-plan beyond "FREEDOM" from the circles.

 

Yup, the Rebel Mages certainly had the freedom to make themselves the enemies of all the mundane citizens, nobels and causally the Templars through a series of remarkably bad decisions and ultimately require a completely separate force to bail them out of the grave they dug for themselves.   Also, since they apparently had little to no regard for those same mundanes I sure hope they planned on forcing some of their number the "freedom" to become farmers on land they cant get (because the Nobels hate and mistrust them for all the violence their apostate friends are inflicting on the countryside); or risk their entire population starving to death because they destroyed their only previous source of income "Enchantment" when they abandoned or killed large portions of the Tranquil population.

 

... that was one hell of a game plan. 

 

Fiona at least cares about her fellow mages, Viv does not. Her only concern is that she no longer has power because her fellows are no longer enslaved. She advocates the Circle, even though she is a kept pet that didn't live there (a mage Quis can point this out). Viv is a quisling that gleefully collaborates for her own self-interest. Cole even says that she hates being a mage, and she seems to hold her fellows in low regard.  

[vbibbi]

Fiona at least cares about her fellow mages, Viv does not. Her only concern is that she no longer has power because her fellows are no longer enslaved. She advocates the Circle, even though she is a kept pet that didn't live there (a mage Quis can point this out). Viv is a quisling that gleefully collaborates for her own self-interest. Cole even says that she hates being a mage, and she seems to hold her fellows in low regard.  

I think both Fiona and Vivienne care about mages, at least the ones under their care, but in different ways.

 

Fiona is the well-intentioned but short-sighted and naive leader who may have been a good leader in times of peace but is a horrible strategist.

 

Vivienne is the harsher leader who does what she thinks is best for her people, even if it's the path of greater resistance. She thinks she knows what mages need, not what they want, is best.

[Tidus]

Cardbutton,That was Fiona's game plan not Vivienne's. Fiona cares more about the mages then smug Vivi who only wants them encaged in a Circle for more abuse by the Templars. We seen what that resulted in.. The mages would rebel again.

 

Vivi is out for self regardless who she uses as stepping stones to get what she wants. 

[CardButton]

Fiona at least cares about her fellow mages, Viv does not. Her only concern is that she no longer has power because her fellows are no longer enslaved. She advocates the Circle, even though she is a kept pet that didn't live there (a mage Quis can point this out). Viv is a quisling that gleefully collaborates for her own self-interest. Cole even says that she hates being a mage, and she seems to hold her fellows in low regard.  

...yes Fiona certainly cares enough about her fellow mages to not have a contingency for the nearly half of their population who wanted to stay in the circles.  She threw them to the wolves with the assumption that those who were lucky enough to survive the mass exodus from the circles would have no other option but to join her and her Rebels.  She cares enough about her fellow mages to hurl them all into a countryside that hates and fears them after the disastrous events of Kirkwall with little to no hope of defending themselves against a world that is now their enemy, let alone feeding themselves since she allowed them to abandon so many of the tranquil of which they depended on for financial support. Few if any of them actually knew what it would take to survive out in the real world, it would be hard enough under normal circumstances even if they hadn't passively voiced their support for mass murder intrinsically by voting for independence when they did.  She also cares enough about the mages to prove to the world that they were thoroughly incapable of judging and governing themselves when she decided it was better to distance her and her rebels from the psychotic apostates slaughtering and raiding their way through Thedas ... when they could have proven both by taking responsibility for those mages they let loose and at the same time gained support from the surrounding populations by dealing with them, themselves.

 

No, I'm more or less convinced that Fiona (perhaps due to her shunning from the Grey Wardens) cares "mostly" about just one mage, herself. She is playing the game just as much as Viv ... she just wants people to like her for it.  She played on the Mages immediate concerns and fears in a crisis to push through independence when she absolutely knew she could not have done so under normal circumstances (she tried before and failed, primarily due to the combined forces of Wynne and Vivienne).  

 

Yes, what Vivienne says is harsh and she does fear mages (including herself), but that is because she is well aware of what untrained and unregulated mages are capable of and how the common people of Thedas react when a Mage goes bad.  In her own way by wanting to keep the Mages in the Circle and using politics and discussion to improve their living conditions (not violence and outright rebellion) she proves she cares more about the Mages than Fiona does.  Its just a bonus if she get a little power along the way (which she can then use to once again improve the rights of Mages). 

[AlanC9]

As in regards to Bastien, staying with him and weeping won't save him. She tells you that she had hired a Chevalier to kill the Wyvern, she only involves the Inquisitor because he becomes unavailable (does he die?)

I believe he did. There are chevalier corpses in the area, anyway. Maybe he got into a fight with one of the guys from Cassandra's mission, who's nearby.

[Reznore57]

She joined because she didn't have anything better to do.

Everyone left the circle so her grand Enchanter title didn't mean anything.

She was also working with the Empress but Morrigan stole her position as court mage and as the Empress' favorite.

The Chantry didn't take mages.

And she has little power over nobles in Orlais , I mean she had some but he was lying in a bed dying.She can't get a noble title either being a mage.

 

So  her only card left was the Inquisition .

Just think about what this "powerful" orlesian mage bring to the table?

A couple of rumors for the war table , her fighting skills , and her "advices" (meaning mostly her opinions and her trying to manipulate her way to a better position) if she's friendly , otherwise she's just a passive agressive ball and chain.

She's an intersting character but she's all smoke and mirror.

[Tidus]

Cardbutton,Fiona was booted from the GWs because the joining no longer works on her and she will never need to answer the calling so,the GWs placed her in a Tower.

 

She also was forced to give up her son due to Warden's "no family" policy and dumps the child on his father's lap,then Merric has him set to Eamon and a lie was cooked up about a simple servant being his Mother.. Alistair had no idea he was speaking to his real Mother Fiona. Duncan was also in on this cover up. 

[Iakus]

„But she also recognized the threat the Breach held as well as whoever caused it.”

 

Oh, she so smart! What skill of situation awareness!

Smarter than the rebels 

[Iakus]

She joined because she didn't have anything better to do.

Everyone left the circle so her grand Enchanter title didn't mean anything.

She was also working with the Empress but Morrigan stole her position as court mage and as the Empress' favorite.

The Chantry didn't take mages.

And she has little power over nobles in Orlais , I mean she had some but he was lying in a bed dying.She can't get a noble title either being a mage.

 

So  her only card left was the Inquisition .

Just think about what this "powerful" orlesian mage bring to the table?

A couple of rumors for the war table , her fighting skills , and her "advices" (meaning mostly her opinions and her trying to manipulate her way to a better position) if she's friendly , otherwise she's just a passive agressive ball and chain.

She's an intersting character but she's all smoke and mirror.

She wasn't Grand Enchanter, and made no claims to be one.  She was FIrst Enchanter, and had a Circle of Magi loyal to her.

 

SHe was still Court Enchanter, though yes Morrigan was stealing some of her thunder by operating as Celene's mystical advisor.  Largely due to the eluvian thing.

 

Vivienne still had power among the nobles, her Court Enchanter position still holds weight as long as Celene remains in power

[Catilina]

Smarter than the rebels 

Fiona joined too.

[CardButton]

Cardbutton,Fiona was booted from the GWs because the joining no longer works on her and she will never need to answer the calling so,the GWs placed her in a Tower.

 

She also was forced to give up her son due to Warden's "no family" policy and dumps the child on his father's lap,then Merric has him set to Eamon and a lie was cooked up about a simple servant being his Mother.. Alistair had no idea he was speaking to his real Mother Fiona. Duncan was also in on this cover up. 

<---- my point exactly.  She was excised from the Wardens (her closest allies) because she was cured from the Taint and forced to return to a Circle against her will.  She was denied the ability to enjoy a life with her son and in fact denied even his knowledge of her.  I wouldn't blame her for becoming mistrustful and self-serving after going through that ... but everything in her actions after she returned to the Circle seems to show that she didn't really care about the mages around her (it's hard to want to create another family, when you've been abandoned by all the others you've ever had).  My theory is that the mage rebellion (for her) was driven by a very simple but powerful desire to have a life with her son, even if he never got to knew she was his mother.  While there may have been other factors I think she just wanted to be close to the only "family
she had left and she knew that if she went apostate she would never have freedom enough to do that being hunted by the Templars, as such she wanted a legitimate way out of the Circle.  The best way to not become an apostate, is to make everyone an apostate and she did so by forcing the vote for independence.  She got lost in the crowd of thousands and in fact seemed like a voice of reason while doing so.   

 

I also don't believe for a second she conveniently chose Redcliffe (Allistair's childhood home) for a sanctuary merely on a whim either, as she must have been aware that there was at least a chance of getting to see her son if she and her group held up there. 

[thats1evildude]

Like her or not, Vivienne IS one of the most skilled mages in Thedas and the Breach does threaten the world. Stopping it is her top priority; increasing her power is secondary.

[Reznore57]

She wasn't Grand Enchanter, and made no claims to be one.  She was FIrst Enchanter, and had a Circle of Magi loyal to her.

 

SHe was still Court Enchanter, though yes Morrigan was stealing some of her thunder by operating as Celene's mystical advisor.  Largely due to the eluvian thing.

 

Vivienne still had power among the nobles, her Court Enchanter position still holds weight as long as Celene remains in power

 

She says she could be Grand Enchanter because there's no one left to vote...there's also no more circles.

As a first Enchanter what does she bring to the table?Mages for the Inquisition?Nope .

Researches about magic?Nope.

Does she even rescue loyalist mage you can meet at Redcliffe?Nope.The tranquil?Nope.

 

Her power at court and among the nobles?A couple of rumors giving war table missions.

She can't get in touch with the Empress when the Inquisition needs it .

You can take her to Halamshiral , she will only give you a couple of advices.That's it.She brings no influence when the Inquisitor needs it the most , nothing.

The only move she makes is in her personal quests , (after Halamshiral...) and she gets in touch with the kids of her lover who are powerful .She also uses the Inquisitor to impress them...

 

Honestly Sera the street urchin does more for the Inquisition than Vivienne, the devs could have used the war table to show Vivienne using her circle , etc...but nope.

[Ghost Gal]

Pretty much what everyone else said.

 

Vivienne joined the Inquisition to secure her own power base. She was savvy enough to realize that the Inquisition was an up-and-comer that had the best chance of putting the world back together (literally for the sky and figuratively for the crumbling Chantry and Circles), and she wanted in on it early. Secure her place of power in the new world organization, and then try to influence it to repair the world the way she wanted. I.e. Restore the Circles exactly as they were before because that's what gave her power. (Though why she thought a vashoth mercenary or Dalish Keeper's First would have any interest in restoring Circles and Templars to power is anyone's guess.)

 

I don't think Bastian took a turn for the worse until much later, and before that she's not the kind to hover over his sick bed crying and praying he'll get better.

[The Baconer]

Remember she not only joins the Inquisition herself, she puts the resources and personnel of the Montsimmard Circle (the faction of the mages that stayed loyal to the Chantry at the Inquisition's disposal.

 

As much as I like Vivienne, I do have to wonder... where exactly are these resources and personnel she claims to command? None of that actually seems to manifest in any capacity. 

[AlanC9]

As much as I like Vivienne, I do have to wonder... where exactly are these resources and personnel she claims to command? None of that actually seems to manifest in any capacity.

They'd just manifest as Power and Influence anyway

[ioannisdenton]

, she is 

She is a politician who is out to obtain more power for herself. That is why she joined the Inquisition. In my opinion, she is one of the least trustworthy possible member of the Inquisition lineup.

Disagree completely. She is not  a bad person, a cocky snob person yes. She likes order and control ,she is a conservative in her universe.
I did not agree with her at all but having her in her party was a mutual agreement .

[vbibbi]

As much as I like Vivienne, I do have to wonder... where exactly are these resources and personnel she claims to command? None of that actually seems to manifest in any capacity. 

Yeah this was my biggest gripe about her. If there had at least been some mention of why her loyalists couldn't help the Inquisition close the Breach, or just some statement on what exactly she brought to the table besides herself. I liked the war table quests about her court connections, but that only demonstrates her Orlesian noble persona, not her leader of the loyal mages persona.