242 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

Should've sent a poet...

[Joseph Warrick]

I don't understand why people would want to romance someone who is a "spoiled brat" in their opinion. Waaa Cassandra doesn't like me for who I am, sure she likes romantic evenings but she should totally try watching me burp and fart constantly as I pump junk food into my monstrously swollen beer gut and watch the ball game. For my sake. Or else I'll cry and call HER a brat.

[robertthebard]

If you love someone you don't let your stupid altruism to destroy the relationship, if she prefers her faith over you is very clear how much she loves you.

If you love someone, you love them.  This means all aspects of them, or, at the very least, you accept that some things are part of what makes them unique, and you let them have these things, instead of trying to change them to what you want them to be.  You claim to love Cassandra, and yet, you don't want her to be who she is, but instead this ideal that you have cooked up for her.  That's not who she is.  The poem was sappy as hell, that's my honest opinion of it, but it's what she wanted.  You see, love is a two way street.  You have to give a little to get a little, and you don't want to do that.  That isn't love.  That is closer to obsession, and it's certainly not healthy.

 

As I said, the poem was sappy as hell, but her reaction to it was great.  I've been known to do similar things for the people in my life, although not reading poetry, but surprising them with that one thing they really wanted.  It shows respect and that I think about them, and how I can help them be happy.  We used to do regular sorties to the local flea market, if you're not familiar with the concept, it's like a giant garage sale.  I'd hang out, and watch what they checked out with that "I must have you" look in their eyes, and then get these things later as bday or xmas presents for them.  All for the reward of watching their eyes light up when they got it, because I wasn't trying to get into their pants.  I can get what you're describing from a prostitute.

[German Soldier]

She only want the D, she don't care about your heart.

 

 

 

 

She isn't that type of woman

[German Soldier]

 

 

Then there is the matter of the Divine, the worst handled in my opinion.

Yeah, I know Casasndra is altruist, but really she prefers use a stupid hat and break your heart than simply refuse being divine?

She prefers restore the chantry than the happiness of the Inquisitor and herself?

 

That's not different from Alistair that dump the warden if the warden is not a noble or it is an elf and ironically enough he is an half elf as well

[Donquijote and 59 others]

 

@ Dai Grepher : - For Morrigan, her plan was to have your baby, but the point is that is she is truly falling in love.

 

- I have always killed Flemeth. But if Morrigan leaves if you didn't kill flemeth isn't it because she fears for her life and she has to hide ? You betrayed her, that's your own fault. And if you don't consider it betrayal, then that's your own point of view, she has her own, and I totally understand it. For me you did. I'm not saying you were wrong, I'm just saying it's normal if it didn't work out between you. It's not ultimatum, you worked against her over something essential. It was absolutely important for Morrigan threatened and vulnerable, a matter of life, and you decided to let live Flemeth ? I'm sorry, but you don't really love her in my opinion. Or then you think she is lying to you, and you don't trust her at all. I totally trusted my love, I listened to Flemeth and it was clear as water that not everything was right, I chose what I had to do in order to protect someone I cared about. And in the end anyways, what Morrigan said was totally true ! 

 

 

Alistair leaves if you don't kill Loghain, that's because that's absolute betrayal to him. You wanted maybe to think more about the fate of the country ? It's nice and all.  But you did it to the detriment of your friend and you betrayed him. You betrayed the friendship, it's a fact, even if it is for a good cause and the safety / unity of the country.

 

 

 

-

 

The warden didn't betray Morrigan unless  Flemeth is spared but he told to Morrigan that she was dead(the lie option).

If the Warden spare Flemeth and then return to Morrigan and tell her that FLemeth was not killed that is not a betrayal,afterall what evidence Morrigan has that Flemeth is a threat beyond a book that she is unable to understand?

If that's the case is Morrigan who somehow betray the warden during that quest since the warden is allowed to ask as for why she was sent by her mother in the first place if she want her body and Morrigan withholds information hence deceive the warden and send them to risk their life for an half deception , FLemeth understood this that's why she is offering to deceive Morrigan as well.

 

 

He may as well view it as such but that doesn't make it a betrayal either and ironically enough he is the traitor in the situation not the warden .

Afterall the guy have no problem if i murder knife people left and right for no reason or sold elves into slavery,or help the werewolves genocide the Dalish or kill a child ecc.and he always follow me

And now he has a problem because of Loghain? Lol and facepalm for AListair

[Dai Grepher]

@ Dai Grepher : - For Morrigan, her plan was to have your baby, but the point is that is she is truly falling in love.
 
- I have always killed Flemeth. But if Morrigan leaves if you didn't kill flemeth isn't it because she fears for her life and she has to hide ? You betrayed her, that's your own fault. And if you don't consider it betrayal, then that's your own point of view, she has her own, and I totally understand it. For me you did. I'm not saying you were wrong, I'm just saying it's normal if it didn't work out between you. It's not ultimatum, you worked against her over something essential. It was absolutely important for Morrigan threatened and vulnerable, a matter of life, and you decided to let live Flemeth ? I'm sorry, but you don't really love her in my opinion. Or then you think she is lying to you, and you don't trust her at all. I totally trusted my love, I listened to Flemeth and it was clear as water that not everything was right, I chose what I had to do in order to protect someone I cared about. And in the end anyways, what Morrigan said was totally true ! 
 
Alistair leaves if you don't kill Loghain, that's because that's absolute betrayal to him. You wanted maybe to think more about the fate of the country ? It's nice and all.  But you did it to the detriment of your friend and you betrayed him. You betrayed the friendship, it's a fact, even if it is for a good cause and the safety / unity of the country.
 
- Morrigan wanted a baby from the warden, the thing is she didn't plan to fall in love with the warden, which is all the point of the romance. She truly enjoyed the flirting, more than what she was allowed to, it was authentic, while she had her own agenda. So, what you have to understand with her romance is that she was supposed to manipulate the warden with his feelings, and actually it's her who fell into her own trap, falling in love with the warden and making things difficult for her. She has still her own agenda to follow though, because there are things very important to the world that are beyond her own fate and the one of her love. It's the same for her son in DA:I, the unnatural creature. She wasn't supposed to love him and to have feelings for him, and yet this is what happened.
 
I have a save in DAI where my warden didn't follow Morrigan into the mirror. I have listened to her and it was disheartening. It's clear she was in love with him, she only said lovely things about him, about how fate was cruel to both of them, not willing to let them together because of different agenda. Morrigan, deeply loved the warden even if she remains alone in the end. Now maybe you can tell me what she told in your playthrough in DAI about the warden ? 
 
- Except you offered exactly the gift that Cassandra wanted after she told what she liked.  Why would you offer somethiing that tis chantry related to Morrigan, while you know she doesn't like the chantry ?  I offered her the magical tome, she enjoyed it. I'm pretty sure that if you offered a dress to Cassandra, she would have reacted negatively.
 
- As for Josephine. The point wasn't that I wanted a date like it happpened in Trepasser. The point was that she wanted to spend to some time together with her love, out of politics, enjoying her favourite things with him at her side. It's love, it's not the same. 
 
If Cassandra would have told , oooh I want to do some sparring with you because I love that, no choice, come,  I want to enjoy that with you, I would have never thought, oh she is forcing me to do something in order to get her love, I would have just thought, oh she wants me to spend some time with her, okay darling let's go ! What I appreciated with Josephine 's date, isn't the date itself, but the sentiment behind it, the feeling that the relationship is alive. In Trepasser, yes, Cassandra tells you a few things, but again words ( But I agree that they shouldn't discarded either though ). I was disappointed to see that the cutescene with Cassandra was exactly the same as a friend as it was her lover. Now I agree, it might be because of Bioware's laziness..
 
- As for the rumor about the inquisitor in the ending slide, it's likely true, since this line is intended to be read by the players. I like your idea though. I would have loved that Cassandra leaves her duty for the inquisitor, or having a secret darling. But she is not like that, she doesn't work that way. At best, the inquisitor should have moved on and Cassandra too. It isn't healthy to pursue a romance that will never happen again.
 
Now, I'm receptive about a few things you said and consider them with reflection. Maybe I'll retry the romance with Cassandra another day, with what you said in mind. We'll see. For the moment, I'm re-playing DAO. Talking about DAO so much made me want to do another playthrough while it's been years I didn't  touch the game. 

She feels love, but when push comes to shove she leaves you, despite the feeling of love. Also, Cassandra does love the Inquisitor. She professes it a number of times, and also shows it.

No, if you refuse to kill her mother she will leave. That isn't a betrayal on your part. It is Morrigan's betrayal. She said she would help you defeat the blight. She only does so on her own conditions though. If she fears for her life, then being with the Warden is the safest place. She knows Flemeth won't come after her until the blight is defeated.

My point here is that she was demanding. Kill her mother and do the Dark Ritual or she's gone. Compare that to reading poetry and lighting some candles.

It was absolutely important for Morrigan threatened and vulnerable, a matter of life, and you decided to let live Flemeth ? I'm sorry, but you don't really love her in my opinion. Or then you think she is lying to you, and you don't trust her at all.

Or, you believe she is honestly mistaken.

I totally trusted my love, I listened to Flemeth and it was clear as water that not everything was right, I chose what I had to do in order to protect someone I cared about. And in the end anyways, what Morrigan said was totally true !

Fine. Good to know you're willing to go to such lengths for your woman... unless she wants you to read her poetry.

Alistair leaves if you don't kill Loghain, that's because that's absolute betrayal to him.

Yeah. Alistair's a crybaby.

You wanted maybe to think more about the fate of the country ? It's nice and all. But you did it to the detriment of your friend and you betrayed him. You betrayed the friendship, it's a fact, even if it is for a good cause and the safety / unity of the country.

I disagree, but this is a separate topic.

Morrigan wanted a baby from the warden, the thing is she didn't plan to fall in love with the warden, which is all the point of the romance. She truly enjoyed the flirting, more than what she was allowed to, it was authentic, while she had her own agenda. So, what you have to understand with her romance is that she was supposed to manipulate the warden with his feelings, and actually it's her who fell into her own trap, falling in love with the warden and making things difficult for her. She has still her own agenda to follow though, because there are things very important to the world that are beyond her own fate and the one of her love. It's the same for her son in DA:I, the unnatural creature. She wasn't supposed to love him and to have feelings for him, and yet this is what happened.

Ah no, she wanted a Dark Ritual baby from ANY Warden. Even from Alistair or Loghain. And she wanted the baby so she could use him as a container for an ancient evil being. So romantic.

Personally I think the non-romance version is... poorly developed. In the Keep you can only select that 1. The Hero did not romance anyone. 2. Let Morrigan go through the mirror. And this results in her saying that they did not part on the best of terms. But I think this may have been referring to Redcliffe, not Witch Hunt. In Witch Hunt they parted as friends.

Dude. Don't you want Morrigan's soul to go to the Maker when she dies?

I was mostly being sarcastic with the "rant" against Josephine because Arshei was complaining about Cassandra wanting something done for her, while Josephine's play was something SHE wanted. I mean, sure you can claim that you liked it, but you can also show that you didn't. Which proves your tastes did not factor in to Josephine's choice of venue.

Serious answer, she wanted to spend time with you, and she picked something she thought you might both enjoy.

I agree, but take note that Josephine's friendship scene is the same too by that standard.

The epilogue could be wrong. Cassandra is in the final scene of Trespasser with the map stabbing. So maybe she sticks with the (ex)Inquisitor after all. And if Solas changes things around to any drastic extent, then that would nullify much of the epilogue.

Good. DA:O is a great game. I recommend romancing Morrigan and Leliana at the same time. Also, do the exploit that lets you keep both. Play as a womanizer. That's fun. My secondary Hero is like that. Also gives a different perspective on Morrigan's psyche.

I'm sure we can say the same about Anders.
 
 
 
You mean like the stupid poem we have to read to Cassandra?
"Read the b*tch some poems, she loves poems"
Josephine at least have good intentions. Cassandra is selfish in her whole romance.

Aw! Reading?!

[KaiserShep]

Aw! Reading?!

 

 

[wright1978]

The whole go away and come back with a better proposal thing in Trespasser certainly left me very cold.

[The dead fish]

 

The warden didn't betray Morrigan unless  Flemeth is spared but he told to Morrigan that she was dead(the lie option).

If the Warden spare Flemeth and then return to Morrigan and tell her that FLemeth was not killed that is not a betrayal,afterall what evidence Morrigan has that Flemeth is a threat beyond a book that she is unable to understand?

If that's the case is Morrigan who somehow betray the warden during that quest since the warden is allowed to ask as for why she was sent by her mother in the first place if she want her body and Morrigan withholds information hence deceive the warden and send them to risk their life for an half deception , FLemeth understood this that's why she is offering to deceive Morrigan as well.

 

 

He may as well view it as such but that doesn't make it a betrayal either and ironically enough he is the traitor in the situation not the warden .

Afterall the guy have no problem if i murder knife people left and right for no reason or sold elves into slavery,or help the werewolves genocide the Dalish or kill a child ecc.and he always follow me

And now he has a problem because of Loghain? Lol and facepalm for AListair

 

 

For Morrigan, you did... that's my whole point.. I'm not saying that this choice is wrong, i'm saying it's normal if she leaves. Perspective is essential...  She feels threatened by her mother and you simply refuse to help her ? You simply let what she feels a threat to her alive just like that, it's over ? Yep, she feels betrayed sine she fears for her life. She doesn't need to stay loyal to you anymore from her point of view, i totally understand that, and that's what you have to understand. It's foolish to hope any loyalty after that in my opinion. 

 

 You disagree with her point of view, fine. But do take into account that not everything resolve around your own perspective. The same with Alistair. Loghain betrayed Cailan, his half brother,  his family, the king, and maybe Ferelden according to him. Duncan and the grey warden are dead because of him, he considers Loghain as the biggest traitor ever, and you decide to let him alive and to ally with him ? Yes Alistair has reasons to believe that you betrayed everything he stand for even if you disagree, and have a different point of view.

[robertthebard]

For Morrigan, you did... that's my whole point.. I'm not saying that this choice is wrong, i'm saying it's normal if she leaves. Perspective is essential...  She feels threatened by her mother and you simply refuse to help her ? You simply let what she feels a threat to her alive just like that, it's over ? Yep, she feels betrayed sine she fears for her life. She doesn't need to stay loyal to you anymore from her point of view, i totally understand that, and that's what you have to understand. It's foolish to hope any loyalty after that in my opinion. 

 

 You disagree with her point of view, fine. But do take into account that not everything resolve around your own perspective. The same with Alistair. Loghain betrayed Cailan, his half brother,  his family, the king, and maybe Ferelden according to him. Duncan and the grey warden are dead because of him, he considers Loghain as the biggest traitor ever, and you decide to let him alive and to ally with him ? Yes Alistair has reasons to believe that you betrayed everything he stand for even if you disagree, and have a different point of view.

I tend to ignore anything that brings Alistair up as some shining beacon of "you did him wrong so he left."  This is the guy that, if you take the surprised to learn he's related to Cailan dialog, will drop you like a hot rock on the way to Redcliffe the first time.  He lied to you, but it's your fault.  Just to show my vet status in this argument:  A lie of omission is still a lie.  He fails to reveal that he's the bastard son of the King, and that information is, as we can see as the story progresses, rather important to Fereldan nobles, or at least some of them.  Even if you make it through that scene w/out the dump fest on an female elf pursuing the romance, and don't spare Loghain, you'll be delegated to his "dirty little secret" if he becomes king.  Yeah, he's a shining example of loyalty.

[The dead fish]

 Also, Cassandra does love the Inquisitor. She professes it a number of times, and also shows it.

 

- I agree that Cassandra professes it a number of times that she loves the inquisitor, I disagree about the fact that she shows it, or at least not to the point I can feel it. It's like she enjoys her relationship with the inquisitor as much as she is having fun with training, a boyfriend with who she is spending some time and that she could totally live without. The relationship between them feels cold and flat to me. The sex scene is finally the only thing that made me feel something.

 

She feels love, but when push comes to shove she leaves you, despite the feeling of love.

 

No, if you refuse to kill her mother she will leave. That isn't a betrayal on your part. It is Morrigan's betrayal. She said she would help you defeat the blight. She only does so on her own conditions though. If she fears for her life, then being with the Warden is the safest place. She knows Flemeth won't come after her until the blight is defeated.

 

My point here is that she was demanding. Kill her mother and do the Dark Ritual or she's gone. Compare that to reading poetry and lighting some candles.

 

-  From her point of view for killing flemeth, you did. It was obviously a matter of life for her. She maybe doesn't want to be purchased by her mother and to worry over such thing her whole life ? Remember how she was shocked and truly affected ? You refused to help her, she was upset, she felt alone. When you are upset, you can act in an irrational way. I'm pretty sure that everyone in his life without exception has done such thing once, reacting badly to something while it is just petty, myself included.

 

And your comparison is not really good to me. Morrigan truly affected was not demanding, she was asking for help, because she feared for her life. it wasn't a ridiculous light subject, where I am forced to do something in order to open a romance lol. You don't see the difference ? " Please help me, I fear for my life" and " haha please I want a man who does this and that and I might see you in a romantic way regardless of who you are, otherwise desist ? " I see it. 

 

Now, for the ritual, I'm in the dark about it, I admit. It never reached my mind that I would refuse such a gift, an opportunity to live offered by my love. Sacrifice is certainly not my cup of tea. I'll try to do it, just to see for myself how she behaves and why. But I think it has to do with the fact that she quickly needs to find another warden before the end of the arch-demon. Because apparently no matter what, Morrigan has what she wanted from the beginning, the child and the soul of the arch-demon inside. So it might not be necessarily for the reasons you think.

 

Or, you believe she is honestly mistaken.

 

And then you decide to do absolutely nothing about it, and you leave her alone with what she feels upset about while for you it's already a detail forgotten, already the past and behind you. You just dismiss her concerns and tell her to deal with it. I wasn't sure myself, it's only after listening to Flemeth that my warden knew and chose what he had to do, finally drawing his sword. This is what we call choices, he had one to make. You sometime don't have all the informations and elements in your hands and you have to decide quickly what seems right or not. My warden felt that something felt terribly wrong with Flemeth after talking deeply with her, he killed her, end of line. He'd rather let Flemeth dead than Morrigan. The fact that she was his love certainly played a role too, yes. You certainly decided the opposite and you had to deal with your own consequences, where your companion felt you dismissed her concerns. Maybe she was wrong, but her feelings were real about it. 

 

Good to know you're willing to go to such lengths for your woman... unless she wants you to read her poetry.

 

Yeah, not really the same. I would gladly help anyone fearing for his life. Again your comparison is not really good. What asked Morrigan had little to do with doing something for her just to be able to get into her pants. It was a matter of life, and I had a choice to make in order to protect someone I cared about. You don't even need to be my LI for such thing, a threat to my companions can be severely considered as a direct threat to me. Remind me why I need to read poetry again ? Ha yes, just because Cassandra wants the ideal and that she can't deal with anything else and anyone if it doesn't happen in her way. It appears a bit superficial to me. 

 

Ah no, she wanted a Dark Ritual baby from ANY Warden. Even from Alistair or Loghain. And she wanted the baby so she could use him as a container for an ancient evil being. So romantic.

 

Doesn't change the fact that everything was authentic with the flirting options, the romance with the warden, and the whole thing before the dark ritual. It was a real romance, not a fake one, where she was manipulating the warden. She was supposed to do it, it didn't happen, it was real. Or then you didn't understand at all the romance if you believe so. Flemeth educated Morrigan about how men are just sheep to be manipulated and ordered her to manipulate a warden in order to get her baby. This is what was supposed to do Morrigan, it pretty much failed from the beginning after the warden tried to seduce her. It's finally love that tormented Morrigan, it's finally the warden who tormented Morrigan, not the opposite.

 

Morrigan isn't as strong and absolute as her mother, she doesn't totally and absolutely think like her mother full of hatred that love is worthless even in the very beginning of the romance. When you say that you might believe in love - if you are quite warm with her -, she claims that you are a fool, but she is just pretending, she just hides her true feelings. You win 2 approval points. If you do the opposite, agreeing with her about how love is worthless, you lose two points. Just this example, shows you that it is more complicated than what you persist to claim wrongly. 

 

Morrigan just needed a baby from a warden, a man to manipulate, yes we do know that. She chose the PC that we control as well, but the PC as a human being intrigued her, surprised her, she didn't consider anymore him as just a sheep, but as a man who makes shake her heart so badly, she fell in love with him and she didn't know how to get out of this mess. She was conflicted. Finally toward the end she realizes that Flemeth is wrong about love. Morrigan will still do her duty though, because she is strong and there are things that are beyond the fate of the warden. But that doesn't mean that everything that happened between the warden and her before the dark ritual was false or just a lie. 

 

If she leaves, then, that's because she favors duty over love. Which is still happening even if you do the dark ritual, Morrigan will leave you and will still do her duty first, following her agenda. It's more about duty over love, than fake love and just manipulation. What I loved, is how Morrigan was terribly conflicted about leaving her love - in my playthrough -

 

I agree, but take note that Josephine's friendship scene is the same too by that standard.

 

Josephine in Trepasser has a heart option, where she playfully flirts with her lover and kisses him, showing an intimate moment in the end, showing how alive is the relationship, which isn't the case with Cassandra. This is all I needed, It wasn't too much to ask franckly. Show as much as you tell. It didn't happen. Zero kisses, zero hugs between the inquisitor and Cassandra two years after. They never touch each other with affection lol. Why do they need to be so formal, even in private if they are a real couple ? 

 

Good. DA:O is a great game. I recommend romancing Morrigan and Leliana at the same time. Also, do the exploit that lets you keep both. Play as a womanizer. That's fun. My secondary Hero is like that. Also gives a different perspective on Morrigan's psyche.

 

Okay thanks for the advice ! Haha ! And yeah, Dao is a great game. It's been years that it was released and I have still much fun with it. 

 

[The dead fish]

I tend to ignore anything that brings Alistair up as some shining beacon of "you did him wrong so he left."  This is the guy that, if you take the surprised to learn he's related to Cailan dialog, will drop you like a hot rock on the way to Redcliffe the first time.  He lied to you, but it's your fault.  Just to show my vet status in this argument:  A lie of omission is still a lie.  He fails to reveal that he's the bastard son of the King, and that information is, as we can see as the story progresses, rather important to Fereldan nobles, or at least some of them.  Even if you make it through that scene w/out the dump fest on an female elf pursuing the romance, and don't spare Loghain, you'll be delegated to his "dirty little secret" if he becomes king.  Yeah, he's a shining example of loyalty.

 

Alistair was truly selfish in his reaction at this moment. I'm not denying that. But I'm smart enough to understand why he feels betrayed. I didn't intend to claim that he was a shinning beacon. He certainly has a lot of flaws, which is probably why he is so well written to me. 

[robertthebard]

Alistair was truly selfish in his reaction at this moment. I'm not denying that. But I'm smart enough to understand why he feels betrayed. I didn't intend to claim that he was a shinning beacon. He certainly has a lot of flaws, which is probably why he is so well written to me. 

Oh, don't get me wrong, I despise him as a person, but absolutely love the character for being able to bring that much hate out of me...

[Iakus]

 

 

And Trespasser, if she is not divine, there have been like more of 2 years of relationship, if other romances like Sera and Cullen are ready to get married, why does she not?

The argument "She want a romantic proposal" or "this is not the time for weddings" don't work.

 

 

She wants thing to be done right, "by the book" as it were (her trashy romance books, of course) This is why she demands flowers, poetry, a 'proper proposal" and such.  She's such a stoic warrior who sees so much ugliness in the world, she wants something bright and beautiful in her life.  

 

Though yes, talking about her first love in that scene seemed rather inappropriate and weird.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

For Morrigan, you did... that's my whole point.. I'm not saying that this choice is wrong, i'm saying it's normal if she leaves. Perspective is essential...  She feels threatened by her mother and you simply refuse to help her ? You simply let what she feels a threat to her alive just like that, it's over ? Yep, she feels betrayed sine she fears for her life. She doesn't need to stay loyal to you anymore from her point of view, i totally understand that, and that's what you have to understand. It's foolish to hope any loyalty after that in my opinion. 

 

 You disagree with her point of view, fine. But do take into account that not everything resolve around your own perspective. The same with Alistair. Loghain betrayed Cailan, his half brother,  his family, the king, and maybe Ferelden according to him. Duncan and the grey warden are dead because of him, he considers Loghain as the biggest traitor ever, and you decide to let him alive and to ally with him ? Yes Alistair has reasons to believe that you betrayed everything he stand for even if you disagree, and have a different point of view.

To feel betrayed does not equate in being effectively betrayed

 

Of course!

She just asked to kill someone based on suspicion over a book(and she was even wrong) ,after all is nothing she just asked to the warden to commit an act of murder toward a benefactor based only in her own word.

The warden did not betrayed her is the opposite way around

Warden :"why you was sent Morrigan if your mother wants your body?"    and to this question she deceieve you to convince the warden to kill Flemeth  even the Toolset describe this part as Morrigan who lied to the warden

It is not a matter of point of view it is a matter of being honest or dishonest and Morrigan is very much dishonest during this quest since she withholds information to trick the warden in doing her dirty work and kill Flemeth.

 

 

 

NO it is not the same.

Alistair was not betrayed by the warden at the landsmeet is he who betrayed the warden the moment he left, committed an act of desertion.

I don't care what motivation Alistair has to "feel betrayed" ,just like Morrigan his request is to kill someone else and if the warden refuse to kill a person just because they asked "a favor" this does not make it a betrayal.

For god sake they are asking to kill people,these are not favors these are act of murdering,they are the traitors not the warden who refused to kill others for them.

My gosh, people are talking about killing others for comission and requests(benefactors included) as if it is nothing nowadays.

 

So

 

-The warden does not kill Flemeth because there aren't compelling evidences that she is a threat and after that is honest with Morrigan about the aftermath and she felt betrayed because?

She is the one who deceived the warden in the first place.

Yes just kill FLemeth that same person who saved you,offered hospitality and even healed you just because that ignoramus of her daughter is unable to understand a book and those who didn't not killed her in Morrigan's mind are traitors ,ok is very fair!

 

 

The warden decided to not kill Loghain because the blight was more important or because they did not want to commit an act of murder for Alistair sake and that would have caused Anora to be destroyed by the pain  and they are traitors for Alistair twisted percpective?

Ok is very fair!

[Bayonet Hipshot]

The whole go away and come back with a better proposal thing in Trespasser certainly left me very cold.

 

This. It reminded me of entitled women in real life demanding that their significant other buy them an expensive engagement ring or have a large bungalow house or have an unnecessarily expensive wedding ceremony under the guise of "not being romantic enough".

 

Before Trespasser, she also does the same thing, albeit on a lesser scale where she said she wants to be courted, wooed and she wants the whole candlelight & poetry thing. She demands but gives nothing in return under the pretense of "romance", which to me is not very different from a woman in real life passive aggressively hinting to a man who is interested in her that he has to treat her to expensive dinner date and pay all the money because "it is romantic" and "it is what she wants" without detailing what she will offer in return.

 

Compare this entitled and demanding behavior to Josephine's "My lord, I love you precisely the way you are" who then brings her romantic partner to a surprise opera date in Trespasser and you really have to ask if Cassandra actually loves your character or if she simply loves your character because they just give her what she deems "romantic" at that moment.

 

As for Morrigan, there is absolutely no excuse for her leaving you on the eve of the battle with Urthemiel if you refused to do the Dark Ritual, especially if your Warden romanced her. She effectively betrays you at that point in the game.

 

As for killing Flemeth, there are reasons to kill her since Morrigan has some proof of Flemeth's plans of possession. If you look at the dialogue where she brings up Flemeth's possession in Origins, she says something along the lines of "Here, in great detail, Flemeth explains how she lived for so long...". Even Flemeth herself does not deny it. So if you are someone who is against involuntary possession, you should fight Flemeth and kill her. So in that sense, if you did not kill Flemeth, it can be considered a form of betrayal.

 

However, if you look at the conversation where Morrigan pitches the Dark Ritual to the Warden, she never explains why Urthemiel's soul is important and she does not explain what she plans to do with Urthemiel's soul and the child she wants to have. All she does is give vague answers about preservation of ancient things. Well Morrigan, I am a historian and there are many ancient things not worth preserving unless you give concrete answers to why you want to do it. This is further compounded by the events in Inquisition where Morrigan she does not know exactly what Urthemiel's soul is useful for. Then there is the fact that Morrigan intends to force an innocent child into some vague destiny/purpose with the Dark Ritual, which to me is no different that bad parents forcing their kids to be something because that is what they want, not because that is what their child wants.

 

[Secret Rare]

 

She prefers restore the chantry than the happiness of the Inquisitor and herself?

(I know others romances does the same, Iron Bull, Alistair, Cullen, Anders, Morrigan, Sebastian)

 

 

 

Caring about someone rarely keeps us from using them, that's pretty much true if you think about it for every DA LI