242 réponses à ce sujet

[Dai Grepher]

Because those are incompatible...

 

No they aren't. The femme fatale can pull off both.

[Sylvianus]

Re-loaded my playthrough. So my inquisitor did it again. Trying to please Cassandra. 

 

 

There, there. Reading poesy by candelights, kneeling before her feets, giving her the ideal.

 

 

And Cassandra is happy. Terribly happy ! 

 

 

Now, things can go on.

 

 

Damn, you made it difficult, but it was worth it ! 

 

 

Now... the option that was missing for the inquisitor (  ) when Cassandra decided absolutely she wanted to be divine regardless of the relationship, almost dismissive.

 

 

It's infortunate that I am forced to break up with her at this moment because there is absolutely no reasons to do so. Alas, there won't be any other possibility to express my desire when she will decide to be divine, so I'm forced to do it now and to find a pretexte, a rp reason. ^^'' I must admit, this scene is very well executed though. 

 

@ Dai Greffer, I admit, I have alway done the dark ritual with Morrigan. However, Morrigan does one thing which astonished me the first time.

 

This difficult, proud and selfish woman comes herself, from her own initiative to see my warden, admitting her feelings for him without the warden having to say anything first. She  almost basically said " I love you and it frigthens me  " and again literally before my character who had to do nothing in order to receive such striking speech. That's probably there, that what I was just considering a fun sexual distraction with her became terribly serious and emotional. That's probably there she won once and for all my loyalty forever. I tried thousand of times to romance Leliana, I always finally came back to Morrigan in all my playthroughs. 

 

Morrigan comes to offer to my warden a gift without my warden asking her anything. Morigan wanted to please my warden as much as my warden wanted to please her. It was a burning and passionate relationship, with burning feelings from both sides. With Cassandra, even if she says I love you, I still feel like it's all about her, it's all about what she wants, what we can do for her, how we can follow and be with her, like the good, passive and supportive guy behind his wife. That doesn't really appeal to me. 

 

Even being married after two years of a supposed good relationship is too much for her as a lady seeker. We can't insist, we can't argue. And we have again to think about how we should do something romantic for her at any rate in such case, while she never thought about doing anything romantic herself for the inquisitor. 

 

When I said to Cassandra, " I won't lose you to the chantry ", she just answered, smiling, you haven't lost me yet. Really ? That's it ? Hum, I felt like an afterthough. " Take advantage of me while you can, after serious business. " Meh. There, too I felt the inquisitor like a beta / passive guy behind his wife, always nicely following the wind. I wish we could argue more with her, as it was the case with Morrigan. 

 

Saying I love you and smiling isn't enough. I must feel it. I know a guy who keeps saying that to his girlfriend with a smile but he never takes care of her. She is about to leave him. ( Note that I am not saying that it is the same with Cassandra, just that words may not be enough to feel warm about something sometime ) 

[Arshei]

 

-

 

You leave her pregnant and then break up with her!?

You are the best ♥

[robertthebard]

What Cassandra tell you is basically "I want to be properly courted, I want a man who... sweeps me of my feet, who give me flowers and read me poetry, if you cannot be that man then desist, what enamors you is but the surface"

 

That sound to me like "If you are not going to be the man I want then we can't be nothing"

Even if that's accurate, so what?  If I'm pursuing a woman, and find out she's not who I'm looking for, I'm not going to continue to pursue it, and will just walk away.  I'd expect the same treatment from her if she figures out that a man that isn't going to change who he is for some sack time isn't appealing.  I have no issue whatsoever with deciding that I want to pursue the relationship and do indeed sweep her off her feet.  I have, in fact, barring the poetry reading, set up some really romantic evenings for women that have been in my life, and never heard one whiff of "***** whipped" from my friends for doing so.  The only thing any of them ever said was "How the hell do you end up with women like that, as ugly as you are?".

 

This just smacks of "I want her, and she should bend over backwards wanting me, just because".

[KaiserShep]

Overexposure to this thread may cause liver damage. 

[Dai Grepher]

Re-loaded my playthrough. So my inquisitor did it again. Trying to please Cassandra. 
 
Now... the option that was missing for the inquisitor (  ) when Cassandra decided absolutely she wanted to be divine regardless of the relationship, almost dismissive.

So... just to be clear, why didn't you just make Vivienne or Leliana Divine?
 

It's infortunate that I am forced to break up with her at this moment because there is absolutely no reasons to do so. Alas, there won't be any other possibility to express my desire when she will decide to be divine, so I'm forced to do it now and to find a pretexte, a rp reason. ^^'' I must admit, this scene is very well executed though.

You could just break it off some time later, before that option is lost near the end of the game. 

@ Dai Greffer, I admit, I have alway done the dark ritual with Morrigan. However, Morrigan does one thing which astonished me the first time.
 
This difficult, proud and selfish woman comes herself, from her own initiative to see my warden, admitting her feelings for him without the warden having to say anything first.

No... I think the Warden had to say a bunch of things Morrigan agreed with, or else shower her with gifts.

She  almost basically said " I love you and it frigthens me  " and again literally before my character who had to do nothing in order to receive such striking speech. That's probably there, that what I was just considering a fun sexual distraction with her became terribly serious and emotional.

She says the same to my Hero, even though he turned her down and only wanted to be friends.

That's probably there she won once and for all my loyalty forever. I tried thousand of times to romance Leliana, I always finally came back to Morrigan in all my playthroughs.

The only good thing about the Morrigan romance is that she will make out with you anywhere.

Morrigan comes to offer to my warden a gift without my warden asking her anything. Morigan wanted to please my warden as much as my warden wanted to please her.

Until it comes time for the Dark Ritual. In which case she will either leave you after the final battle, or she will leave you immediately if you don't give her what she wants. And you criticize Cassandra for wanting to be read poetry by candlelight?

With Cassandra, even if she says I love you, I still feel like it's all about her, it's all about what she wants, what we can do for her, how we can follow and be with her, like the good, passive and supportive guy behind his wife. That doesn't really appeal to me.

It doesn't appeal to me either, but then again, I don't think the Cassandra romance was anything like that. I don't understand why you think it was.

Even being married after two years of a supposed good relationship is too much for her as a lady seeker. We can't insist, we can't argue. And we have again to think about how we should do something romantic for her at any rate in such case, while she never thought about doing anything romantic herself for the inquisitor.

Planning when to marry is responsible behavior, and it certainly isn't a "no". It sounded to me like she was saying that she wants to, but it would be wise to consider how the world is before they take such a big step. For me it made perfect sense because my Inquisitor is a mage. But even a non-mage is still Inquisitor, and has to think about how a marriage will affect him in his role, and how it will affect everything around him. Again, she isn't saying no. She's saying they should be careful. Besides, the Inquisitor wasn't proposing. So there was nothing for Cassandra to refuse.

When I said to Cassandra, " I won't lose you to the chantry ", she just answered, smiling, you haven't lost me yet. Really ? That's it ? Hum, I felt like an afterthough. " Take advantage of me while you can, after serious business. " Meh. There, too I felt the inquisitor like a beta / passive guy behind his wife, always nicely following the wind. I wish we could argue more with her, as it was the case with Morrigan.

Well, at some point I think we have to blame BioWare. They wanted to mix the romance with the next Divine plot, and obviously they had to write various dialogue lines for it. That was... not one of their better ones.

Saying I love you and smiling isn't enough. I must feel it. I know a guy who keeps saying that to his girlfriend with a smile but he never takes care of her. She is about to leave him. ( Note that I am not saying that it is the same with Cassandra, just that words may not be enough to feel warm about something sometime )

She says that not even the Maker could tear her away from you. For someone so devout, I'd say that means a lot.

But this is all in how you play it. If you encourage her to become Divine, then of course she will listen to you. If you tell her there are other ways she can serve, then she will not become Divine and she will not end the relationship.

[KaiserShep]

No... I think the Warden had to say a bunch of things Morrigan agreed with, or else shower her with gifts.

 

 

Yeah, I found that it was best not to bring Morrigan everywhere, since most acts of kindness tended to gain disapproval, unless I was rolling a Warden that was messing with people. Threatening folks here and there and being selfish usually went well. You had to work around her tendency to be cruel to get her to warm up, and then she will always leave if you deny her an archbaby no matter how she feels, since her original purpose for being there is the thing that matters most. 

[Akrabra]

Overexposure to this thread may cause liver damage. 

More like brain damage, it hurts! 

[Secret Rare]

 

 

I am the opposite of you with Morrigan. If you don't do her ritual, she leaves. I don't think it has to do with not wanting to see you die either, since that could happen regardless, and leaving the group only makes the likelihood of death even greater.

I share the same perspective,with the only difference that her long term deception and attempt to manipulation was not forgot by my warden.

 

 

 

Anyway i like Cassandra so whatever OP, she is good friend.

[Secret Rare]

Kinda reminds me of an argument I had on these boards with someone that felt all the companions in DAO were traitors because they moved on and pursued their own goals rather than slavishly clinging to the Warden's side.

 

Its a rather disturbing viewpoint that seems to suggest they view relationships (both romantic and platonic), as some sort of feudal bloodoath of total submission, rather than a bond between two individuals with their own desires.

I do don't want to disclose my assumptions toward the romantic arguments of the "betrayal" of obsession and so forth, but i think that some companions of DA can be marked as betrayers under a valid percpective depending of the outcome of the Warden decisions and those are to me:

 

Loghain---->because he used the warden as scapegot for Ostagar and committed several nasty things

 

Alistair------>If Loghain is recuited she abandon his oath as a Warden

 

Zevran------>Can abandon the warden or ally with his former companion after his oath

 

Morrigan------->Long term deception and final attempt at manipulation,i don't care about her  would-be goals  but if she is deceiving me to reach them  i consider that a form of betrayal,withholds informations for personal advantages while put in danger others life (Flemeth fight) is by definition a severe form of  deception

[Heimdall]

I do don't want to disclose my assumptions toward the romantic arguments of the "betrayal" of obsession and so forth, but i think that some companions of DA can be marked as betrayers under a valid percpective depending of the outcome of the Warden decisions and those are to me:

Loghain---->because he used the warden as scapegot for Ostagar and committed several nasty things

Alistair------>If Loghain is recuited she abandon his oath as a Warden

Zevran------>Can abandon the warden or ally with his former companion after his oath

Morrigan------->Long term deception and final attempt at manipulation,i don't care about her would-be goals but if she is deceiving me to reach them i consider that a form of betrayal,withholds informations for personal advantages while put in danger others life (Flemeth fight) is by definition a severe form of deception

The person I was talking about wasn't talking about that. This person characterized Oghren as a betrayer because he left to start a family once the Archdemon was dead, Leliana for going to serve the Divine, Wynne for returning to Circle politics. Anything less than sticking to the Warden's side like glue was a betrayal.

[Secret Rare]

The person I was talking about wasn't talking about that. This person characterized Oghren as a betrayer because he left to start a family once the Archdemon was dead,

I would have paid Oghren if he would have maintained his word instead to return to the warden in the expansion......

[Arshei]

Leliana - Tries to kill you if you corrupt the Ashes
Wynne - Same as Leliana
Oghren - If you have low approval with him he tries to kill you in camp, even when you are the last warden that can save the world
Shale - Tries to kill you if you side with Branka
Sten - Tries to kill you in the Temple of Sacred ashes because he think he can be a better leader
Zevran - If you don't have max approval (+70) he return with the crowns and tries to kill you.
Dog - Really anyone uses him as a companion?, he seems the most useless companion that can exist.
-----
Anders - Break up with you if you don't help him to put the bomb in the chantry, he says "Oh, you don't help me, is because you don't love me and you hate mages" "But Anders.. I'm a mage" "I don't care, you are not anymore a mage, I remove the title of you"
Aveline - Even if you have low approval she side with the enemy but never tries to kill you, but she ignores the elf rapist because he just rape elf people
Bethany - After all your family risk everything to keep her safe, she willingly enter to the Circle
Carver - "Hawke open mouth" -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 approval
Fenris - If you don't have max friendship and you side with the mages, he tries to kill you, and even dies trying
Isabela - She decide she is more important than everyone in Kirkwall so she stole a book that make 50% of the people in the city killed
Merrill - Because of her stupidity her whole clan and Marethari dies
Sebastian - If you don't kill Anders he bring a whole army to destroy Kirkwall
Varric - Nothing really... Just the betrayal in the fade
-------------
Blackwall and Cole - If you don't help people in secondary mission they leave the Inquisition
Blackwall - He even lied you all the time
Cassandra, Varric and Solas - Even when they hate you they can't leave the Inquisition because of Bioware, but they have their disapprove scene telling you when this is over you are never going to see them again
Sera - Break up with you if you are elfy after the temple of Mythal
Vivienne - After the fact she is a superbitch with you, talk **** of you to other nobles, and "rearrange furniture".
Cullen - He treat you like a retarded if you side with the mages
Leliana - The worst spymaster you are going to see, she does nothing the whole game!, is because of her that a lot of people died in Heaven!
Josephine - She... has... an ugly nose?
--------
 
And you think Morrigan is the worst because she just leave you if you don't do the ritual that can save your life or Alistair's life?

[robertthebard]

Leliana - Tries to kill you if you corrupt the Ashes
Wynne - Same as Leliana
Oghren - If you have low approval with him he tries to kill you in camp, even when you are the last warden that can save the world
Shale - Tries to kill you if you side with Branka
Sten - Tries to kill you in the Temple of Sacred ashes because he think he can be a better leader
Zevran - If you don't have max approval (+70) he return with the crowns and tries to kill you.
Dog - Really anyone uses him as a companion?, he seems the most useless companion that can exist.
-----
Anders - Break up with you if you don't help him to put the bomb in the chantry, he says "Oh, you don't help me, is because you don't love me and you hate mages" "But Anders.. I'm a mage" "I don't care, you are not anymore a mage, I remove the title of you"
Aveline - Even if you have low approval she side with the enemy but never tries to kill you, but she ignores the elf rapist because he just rape elf people
Bethany - After all your family risk everything to keep her safe, she willingly enter to the Circle
Carver - "Hawke open mouth" -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 approval
Fenris - If you don't have max friendship and you side with the mages, he tries to kill you, and even dies trying
Isabela - She decide she is more important than everyone in Kirkwall so she stole a book that make 50% of the people in the city killed
Merrill - Because of her stupidity her whole clan and Marethari dies
Sebastian - If you don't kill Anders he bring a whole army to destroy Kirkwall
Varric - Nothing really... Just the betrayal in the fade
-------------
Blackwall and Cole - If you don't help people in secondary mission they leave the Inquisition
Blackwall - He even lied you all the time
Cassandra, Varric and Solas - Even when they hate you they can't leave the Inquisition because of Bioware, but they have their disapprove scene telling you when this is over you are never going to see them again
Sera - Break up with you if you are elfy after the temple of Mythal
Vivienne - After the fact she is a superbitch with you, talk **** of you to other nobles, and "rearrange furniture".
Cullen - He treat you like a retarded if you side with the mages
Leliana - The worst spymaster you are going to see, she does nothing the whole game!, is because of her that a lot of people died in Heaven!
Josephine - She... has... an ugly nose?
--------
 
And you think Morrigan is the worst because she just leave you if you don't do the ritual that can save your life or Alistair's life?

There's a whole lot of "if you go out of your way to be an ass, this can happen" thrown in with some "I'm not helping you, you're psycho" aka as Anders.  Did you know, for example, that if you play it right, you can save Merrill's clan?  Did you know that if you talk to Zevran a few times, and take him around a couple of times, he won't turn on you?  With the caveat that it really depends on what you say.  If you act like a major league douche, it won't make him stay, but if you're civil, he won't turn on you.

 

So you created a lot of scenarios where it's possible for comps to turn/leave, and then point out that they'll turn/leave?  Morrigan has one breaking point, refusal to do the DR, no matter what kind of relationship you have with her, results in her leaving.  None of this even comes close to what you previously listed.  In fact, I destroyed the urn with Leliana in the party, and then went to camp and had wild monkey sex, with Leliana.  So even in your list of highly biased breaking points, it's possible that it won't even cost you enough approval to lose the relationship with her.

[Arshei]

There's a whole lot of "if you go out of your way to be an ass, this can happen" thrown in with some "I'm not helping you, you're psycho" aka as Anders.  Did you know, for example, that if you play it right, you can save Merrill's clan?  Did you know that if you talk to Zevran a few times, and take him around a couple of times, he won't turn on you?  With the caveat that it really depends on what you say.  If you act like a major league douche, it won't make him stay, but if you're civil, he won't turn on you.

 

So you created a lot of scenarios where it's possible for comps to turn/leave, and then point out that they'll turn/leave?  Morrigan has one breaking point, refusal to do the DR, no matter what kind of relationship you have with her, results in her leaving.  None of this even comes close to what you previously listed.  In fact, I destroyed the urn with Leliana in the party, and then went to camp and had wild monkey sex, with Leliana.  So even in your list of highly biased breaking points, it's possible that it won't even cost you enough approval to lose the relationship with her.

 

She has a lot of reason to leave, and there is a DLC that you can search her, and when you found her you live happy ever after for a while.

I don't understand how is exactly bad that she leaves compared to Leliana that want to kill the only warden that can save the world just for some ashes.

[ModernAcademic]

None of this even comes close to what you previously listed.  In fact, I destroyed the urn with Leliana in the party, and then went to camp and had wild monkey sex, with Leliana.

 

(Where's an appropriate reaction gif when you need one?) 

 

 

Wild monkey sex...hm.

I definitely need to write that one down for future uses. In plural.

[MisterJB]

You know, you can only destroy the Urn and keep Leliana as a party member if you threaten her.

Brings any future sex with her with her into question, in my opinion.

[Milan92]

You know, you can only destroy the Urn and keep Leliana as a party member if you threaten her.

Brings any future sex with her with her into question, in my opinion.

 

Hate sex?

[Secret Rare]

Leliana - Tries to kill you if you corrupt the Ashes
Wynne - Same as Leliana
Oghren - If you have low approval with him he tries to kill you in camp, even when you are the last warden that can save the world
Shale - Tries to kill you if you side with Branka
Sten - Tries to kill you in the Temple of Sacred ashes because he think he can be a better leader
Zevran - If you don't have max approval (+70) he return with the crowns and tries to kill you.
Dog - Really anyone uses him as a companion?, he seems the most useless companion that can exist.
-----
Anders - Break up with you if you don't help him to put the bomb in the chantry, he says "Oh, you don't help me, is because you don't love me and you hate mages" "But Anders.. I'm a mage" "I don't care, you are not anymore a mage, I remove the title of you"
Aveline - Even if you have low approval she side with the enemy but never tries to kill you, but she ignores the elf rapist because he just rape elf people
Bethany - After all your family risk everything to keep her safe, she willingly enter to the Circle
Carver - "Hawke open mouth" -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 approval
Fenris - If you don't have max friendship and you side with the mages, he tries to kill you, and even dies trying
Isabela - She decide she is more important than everyone in Kirkwall so she stole a book that make 50% of the people in the city killed
Merrill - Because of her stupidity her whole clan and Marethari dies
Sebastian - If you don't kill Anders he bring a whole army to destroy Kirkwall
Varric - Nothing really... Just the betrayal in the fade
-------------
Blackwall and Cole - If you don't help people in secondary mission they leave the Inquisition
Blackwall - He even lied you all the time
Cassandra, Varric and Solas - Even when they hate you they can't leave the Inquisition because of Bioware, but they have their disapprove scene telling you when this is over you are never going to see them again
Sera - Break up with you if you are elfy after the temple of Mythal
Vivienne - After the fact she is a superbitch with you, talk **** of you to other nobles, and "rearrange furniture".
Cullen - He treat you like a retarded if you side with the mages
Leliana - The worst spymaster you are going to see, she does nothing the whole game!, is because of her that a lot of people died in Heaven!
Josephine - She... has... an ugly nose?
--------
 
And you think Morrigan is the worst because she just leave you if you don't do the ritual that can save your life or Alistair's life?

I'm confused about what you said in regard of Bethany and Shale  from what i remember the former had no choice because she was found by the templars when Hawke was at the expedition with Varric she did not want to go in the circle,while the latter made an agreement with the warden to offer her help if the warden would have helped to recover her memories (yet of course if you side with branka this you who betray her no the other way around since Caradin is a source of information for her)

Sten also don't try to kill the warden but only to fight to prove if the warden is worthy,even if you lose he will not kill you.

Anyway among the characters that you listed none planned to kill you from the beginning ,all their actions are leaded by severe circumstances(in Shale case the warden kill her friend) and by them who stood for their belief(and i did not consider this a betrayal,if the warden is a monster why they should not try to stop you?) they did not planned anything unlike Morrigan which used long term deception.

[Arshei]

 

I'm confused about what you said in regard of Bethany and Shale from what i remember the former had no choice because she was found by the templars when Hawke was at the expedition with Varric she did not want to go in the circle,while the latter made an agreement with the warden to offer her help if the warden would have helped to recover her memories (yet of course if you side with branka this you who betray her no the other way around since Caradin is a source of information for her)

Anyway among the characters that you listed none planned to kill you from the beginning ,all their actions all leaded by circumstances and by them who stood for their belief(and i did not consider this a betrayal,if the warden is a monster why they should not try to stop you?) they did not planned anything unlike Morrigan which used long term deception.

 

 

About Bethany yeah, but is she who refuses to fight the templars, she just goes to the circle willingly

And Shale, you never agreed to help her recover her memory, she only join the Warden because she has nothing to do with her life.

[jlb524]

This thread is basically "muh waifu is better than your waifu" for eight pages.

[Arshei]

This thread is basically "muh waifu is better than your waifu" for eight pages.

 

I bet it can be nine.

[Dai Grepher]

You forgot to include Alistair in your rant list, Arshei. And now I think I've found your Achilles' Heel. Mu hu haw haw haa.

[Arshei]

You forgot to include Alistair in your rant list, Arshei. And now I think I've found your Achilles' Heel. Mu hu haw haw haa.

 

They talked about him before

 

 

I do don't want to disclose my assumptions toward the romantic arguments of the "betrayal" of obsession and so forth, but i think that some companions of DA can be marked as betrayers under a valid percpective depending of the outcome of the Warden decisions and those are to me:

 

Loghain---->because he used the warden as scapegot for Ostagar and committed several nasty things

 

Alistair------>If Loghain is recuited she abandon his oath as a Warden

 

Zevran------>Can abandon the warden or ally with his former companion after his oath

 

Morrigan------->Long term deception and final attempt at manipulation,i don't care about her  would-be goals  but if she is deceiving me to reach them  i consider that a form of betrayal,withholds informations for personal advantages while put in danger others life (Flemeth fight) is by definition a severe form of  deception

 

[Secret Rare]

About Bethany yeah, but is she who refuses to fight the templars, she just goes to the circle willingly

And Shale, you never agreed to help her recover her memory, she only join the Warden because she has nothing to do with her life.

Fight a group of well trained templars? She had no choice she could have done nothing in the given situation.

 

Shale  did said in Yonelath that this travel was for her a way to try to recover her memories and that is why she offer  help,yet the warden is killing her friend in front her with the specific purpose to keep the tool that enslaved her for centuries and that will be used to create more slaves and suffering and she is not allowed to try to stop you because?

 

Sten also don't try to kill the warden as i said even if he win he don't kill the warden it was just a test.