242 réponses à ce sujet

[German Soldier]

Yes,she loves me

[Dai Grepher]

They talked about him before

 

They mentioned Zevran too, but you ranted about him.
 

[Arshei]

Yes,she loves me

 

She only want the D, she don't care about your heart.

 

 

They mentioned Zevran too, but you ranted about him.
 

 

Because I didn't see they mentioned Zevran

[KaiserShep]

She only want the D, she don't care about your heart.

 

 

[Sylvianus]

So... just to be clear, why didn't you just make Vivienne or Leliana Divine?
 

You could just break it off some time later, before that option is lost near the end of the game. 


No... I think the Warden had to say a bunch of things Morrigan agreed with, or else shower her with gifts.


She says the same to my Hero, even though he turned her down and only wanted to be friends.


The only good thing about the Morrigan romance is that she will make out with you anywhere.


Until it comes time for the Dark Ritual. In which case she will either leave you after the final battle, or she will leave you immediately if you don't give her what she wants. And you criticize Cassandra for wanting to be read poetry by candlelight?


It doesn't appeal to me either, but then again, I don't think the Cassandra romance was anything like that. I don't understand why you think it was.


Planning when to marry is responsible behavior, and it certainly isn't a "no". It sounded to me like she was saying that she wants to, but it would be wise to consider how the world is before they take such a big step. For me it made perfect sense because my Inquisitor is a mage. But even a non-mage is still Inquisitor, and has to think about how a marriage will affect him in his role, and how it will affect everything around him. Again, she isn't saying no. She's saying they should be careful. Besides, the Inquisitor wasn't proposing. So there was nothing for Cassandra to refuse.


Well, at some point I think we have to blame BioWare. They wanted to mix the romance with the next Divine plot, and obviously they had to write various dialogue lines for it. That was... not one of their better ones.


She says that not even the Maker could tear her away from you. For someone so devout, I'd say that means a lot.

But this is all in how you play it. If you encourage her to become Divine, then of course she will listen to you. If you tell her there are other ways she can serve, then she will not become Divine and she will not end the relationship.

 

- No there isn't the break up option with Cassandra after the sex scene. It's for life. That's why either you do it at this moment or not at all. 

 

- I have always done willingly the dark ritual, so I'm not able  to comment over something I don't know anything about. She may have her reasons to leave, and I don't know them. The thing is doing the dark ritual or not, Morrigan didn't force anything on me, she asked me if I wanted to do it, she explained her point, that's it, she didn't say do it or I leave. She found a way to save the love of her life, while having the possibility to create something unnatural, and I said, yes, I want to do it. She was absolutely adorable at this moment with the warden, she showed how she cared about him in my playthrough which is alternate from yours. Now she had of course her own business, I always knew it and it never bothered me. Morrigan has her flaws, I liked her as she was. 

 

- And you are wrong. Even if you discourage Cassandra to become Divine, support someone else, she can still become divine, it doesn't depend on you actually, but on your choices made in the games, which has little to do with what want the player. Didn't you hear all those people screaming on this forum about why they didn't have the divine they wanted and supported all this time ? 

 

I could have done like other folks on this forum as well, doing everything I can to prevent Cassandra to become divine. But this is metagame and I don't like doing that. That's stupid to me. I've seen some people who have made some choices in the game not because they wanted to but just to be sure to prevent Cassandra to become Divine. Yeah, I want to make my choices without worrying over such irrelevant things. It's more her cold behavior ( IMO ) that bothered me anyway. 

 

- You didn't understand what I meant. Of course, your Li has to agree with what you do. If she doesn't agree with you, then the romance is going to fail. That has absolutely nothing to do with Morrigan, it's just normal. If you hate the opinions of your love, it is normal that you decide to leave him I think ? Alistair does the same thing for example. 

 

This isn't what I was pointing out when I said that my character didn't make the first move. I disagreed a lot with Morrigan with some things, but also agreed a lot with her over other things. You don't have to be a bad guy at all to have a decent approval bar from her. Unless you played 100 % the good and naive guy; then yes Morrigan isn't for you.   You can pretty much keep a decent approval bar while you save everyone. I know it, I did it. 

 

I'm talking about the romance itself, where the LI isn't just reactive, but also pro-active. ( Cassandra almost basically ignored all the flirty options by the way. It's hillarious. ) Morrigan likes to be courted too, ( she doesn't need poetry though ) and yet she doesn't require anything, she accepts my compliments, she laughs, she makes some compliments too to my characters, flirting too, we have fun. We have sex. She accepts my gifts. It's active romance. With Cassandra, before anything happening she turns you down, and she says I want that or then desist.    You see the difference now ?

 

Much better, After all the flirt options with Morrigan, you don't even need to say I love you first, you don't need to say I care about you. It's just casual sex. My character never said anything emotional or romantic to her.  No feelings. And yet After a while, Morrigan doesn't want anymore to have sex with the warden, she is angry, and the reason is because she has feelings for you... She feels it weakens her, she tells you that she feels dependent. She made alone the first serious step. That was awesome. There, it is showed to you how your Li is affected. And Morrigan was truly affected since she had no concept of offering something without requiring something in exchange, which is pretty much why she was shocked when my warden asnwered that he didn't want anything after killing flemeth when she asked what he wanted from her. 

 

During the relationship with Cassandra after the sex scene, honestly, what really happened ? Not much. I'd even say basically nothing happened. It's flat and cold. I'm forced to headcanon things and I don't know how to do it, because honestly I have difficulties to figure out how the relationship can work, with so little bioware material in the romance. We talk about things like Cullen and his issues with lyrium. everything that is seeker / inquisition related, the disheartening matter about the divine takes all its place. No real touching intimate moments, ( except a few words thrown here and there ) for example like it happened with Morrigan going to offer me a thing, not only because she wanted to offer me a gift, but because that way she could remain linked with her love and she could know where he is. 

 

I'm talking about how a relatiionship can be shown very active within the romance, not if you have to agree a lot or not with your LI to get into her pants. 

 

- Also something that quite surprised me the first time. It's been months that Cassandra hasn't seen her love in Trepasser, and she doesn't kiss him, doesn't do anything intimate in order to welcome him ? There is absolutely no intimate interactions between the inquisitor and Cassandra from the beginning to the end in Trepasser, it's like they are foreigner to each other. No date like with Josephine, nothing. Remember when I said , I must feel you love me, words may not be enough sometime to believe it ? 

 

Now, yes, it is showed that she likes you a lot, I don't disagree. But I feel it's quite weak sometime, a one sided romance or a cold relationship. She wasn't really conflicted about leaving her love honestly to me. 

 

oh, and I also dislike the ending slide with the divine and if you keep the inquisition, where the inquisitor who is supposed to move on, is still behind Cassandra, like a puppet, just hoping to be at her side, and catching her smiles.

[Dai Grepher]

I'm 100% sure there is an option to break up with her after the sex scene. Not sure if there is before the last conversation on the battlements before the final battle though. 
 
That's fine. You don't have to. Just informing you of Morrigan's mindset.

Like killing Flemeth? By the same standard, Cassandra never said "do this, or I leave" either.
 

She found a way to save the love of her life, while having the possibility to create something unnatural, and I said, yes, I want to do it. She was absolutely adorable at this moment with the warden, she showed how she cared about him in my playthrough which is alternate from yours. Now she had of course her own business, I always knew it and it never bothered me. Morrigan has her flaws, I liked her as she was.

Fine. But to then demanding Cassandra have no flaws is a bit unreasonable.

If she is elected Divine, she will do it because she thinks she HAS to. Just like Morrigan runs away from you because she thinks she has to. My question is why you the player didn't make someone else Divine. Yes, it depends on your choices, but there are other ways to basically sabotage Cassandra's score and raise up Vivienne's or Leliana's. You can give Vivienne 10 points for example just by completing "Support Vivienne" on the Chore Table. That should be enough to overtake Cassandra.

That's because they didn't look up the election scoring method, or because it wasn't available at the time. I didn't have it either, but I did toward the end of the game. For me, I conscripted templars, secured a three-way deadlock in Orlais, and allied with the Wardens. Supporting Vivienne was all I needed to put her ahead of Leliana. Cassandra was at the bottom. In fact, I think she may have been in the negatives (if there are negatives).

I understand, but I don't think that's meta. Discouraging Cassandra from becoming Divine can be done for a variety of canon reasons that you the player decide. It could be because your character genuinely disagrees with her vision for the Circles. My mage disagreed with her vision. It could be because you want her to stay with you. My mage also wanted that, but put it aside to think of her and others in Thedas. It could be because Cassandra heavily implies that she doesn't want to be Divine. That was the main reason my mage Inquisitor did not support her as Divine. It was something she didn't want. And you can't be effective in a role you don't want, or at least not as effective as a good candidate who wants it. On that subject, you might see the other candidates as better. My mage supported almost all of Vivienne's views and honestly believed she was best suited for the role. He absolutely rejected Leliana's insanity. But Cassandra will hate Vivienne's leadership, and will mostly approve of Leliana's. So if your character is like-minded with Cassandra, then supporting Leliana should be easy.

Choices like what? The big ones can be explained either way, and ultimately don't matter. Okay, going after mages and the choice to conscript or ally is a big one. Fine. The Wardens? What's the harm in allying with them? This hurts Cassandra's chances of being Divine. I think the only thing that benefits Cassandra in WEWH is Gaspard rules alone. Ultimately, you would only have to make one or two slight variations to keep Cassandra with your character.

But if you say this is about her cold behavior, then that's a separate issue. Isn't it? 

Then what is your complaint with Cassandra? My mage could actually make choices she didn't like, yet she still stayed with him. If you choose not to kill Flemeth, Morrigan leaves you. If you dip in approval with her I think you get some kind of ultimatum conversation where you have to say the right things. Or maybe it just drops you out of the romance, not sure. 
 
I played a male Cousland warrior, and you know what they say about Couslands (they are Gary/Mary-Sue tropes). Mine was the "good-guy" but hardly naive (I don't think it's possible to be naive without headcanon). He disagreed with her a lot, but this was made up for with... *gasp* GIFTS?!?! So yes, your guy did have to make the first move. And my Hero still got the same "tell me you don't love me" request.

Ignored, or responded in a way that did not meet your satisfaction? And of course Morrigan will respond to your flirts, her job is to get knocked up by you.

Yeah, she just needs a couple ancient magical tomes about possession and blood magic. Much easier to get.
 

she accepts my compliments, she laughs, she makes some compliments too to my characters, flirting too, we have fun. We have sex. She accepts my gifts. It's active romance. With Cassandra, before anything happening she turns you down, and she says I want that or then desist.    You see the difference now ?

Nope.

Cassandra accepted my gift to her. The latest release of Swords & Shields. Morrigan was quite displeased when I gave her the unabridged version of the Chant of Light. I was just looking out for her soul. I didn't want her to end up bound to some ancient elvhen false goddess or something.

And same answer as to the above, Morrigan's mission is to get her womb blasted by a Grey Warden. So of course she'll accept your compliments and flirt right back.
 

Much better, After all the flirt options with Morrigan, you don't even need to say I love you first, you don't need to say I care about you. It's just casual sex. My character never said anything emotional or romantic to her.  No feelings.

Well then that's not a romance.

Like I wrote above, she felt the same about my character, even though he turned her down. There was also the rivalry between her an Leliana. I'm sure that played into it as well. But I think this all comes down to gifts.

You sure that wasn't after the mirror? I think she said that after getting the mirror.

Well I'm sure it was difficult for you, since your idea of a Dragon Age romance has sex as the opening act. For Cassandra it is an expression, not the basis. I will agree that the romance material was a little lacking in Inquisition, but I think that's the case with most of the romances, even in Origins. But Cassandra can be a party companion, and there are other scenes with her and her personal quest. And she can be kissed at any time in Skyhold, except after the final battle for some strange reason.

My Cousland got the ring too, as a friend. In fact, even females Wardens get the ring. But yeah, all those talks with Cassandra can have the romance played into them as well, some more than others.

I agree that Cassandra's romance could have been more of a two-way street than it was, but the same can go for all romances.

Not completely true. There is romance specific dialogue for Cassandra in her interaction and in activated banter in the few levels there are in Trespasser. But I think the lack of this is due to BioWare being lazy and only having the same basic animations regardless of who or what the Inquisitor is. It's also priorities, to an extent. They gave Cullen and Sera a certain type of scene because of fangirls and... agendas.
 

No date like with Josephine, nothing.

OH! That "date" was total crap! She just drags you off to some stupid play that you hate and cannot refuse to go to. She gives you no choice. And it's all for her. It's something SHE wants, not you. All you can do is pretend to like it for her sake, or else say something nice to her. That isn't the kind of romance I want. Rabble rabble rabble!

But seriously, this goes back to what I just wrote about BioWare being lazy. It's the same thing Josephine does for any Inquisitor. Same animations.
 

Remember when I said , I must feel you love me, words may not be enough sometime to believe it ?

Oh I believe it! But words shouldn't be discounted either. Cass can say that not even the Maker can pull her away from you, and before the Darvaarad if you pick the romance dialogue option she says something sweet to you there as well.
 
I think she was conflicted, but she felt she had to. Leaving doesn't mean she wasn't conflicted. But I agree there could have been more. But there could have been more to all the characters in the main game and Trespasser. All you get from Hissrad if you side with the Qunari is "Hey boss" and a fist bump you can return.
 

oh, and I also dislike the ending slide with the divine and if you keep the inquisition, where the inquisitor who is supposed to move on, is still behind Cassandra, like a puppet, just hoping to be at her side, and catching her smiles.

That's just rumor. But I think it should have stated that Cassandra organized the kind of Chantry she wanted, named an appropriate successor, and then left the Sunburst Throne to be with her love.

[Abyss108]

Seems kinda nasty to go around sabotaging your LIs chance to make a difference in the world when you know its important to her... 

[Dai Grepher]

Except there are other, better ways to make a difference in the world, and being Divine wasn't important to her.

[Sylvianus]

@ Dai Grepher : - For Morrigan, her plan was to have your baby, but the point is that is she is truly falling in love.

 

- I have always killed Flemeth. But if Morrigan leaves if you didn't kill flemeth isn't it because she fears for her life and she has to hide ? You betrayed her, that's your own fault. And if you don't consider it betrayal, then that's your own point of view, she has her own, and I totally understand it. For me you did. I'm not saying you were wrong, I'm just saying it's normal if it didn't work out between you. It's not ultimatum, you worked against her over something essential. It was absolutely important for Morrigan threatened and vulnerable, a matter of life, and you decided to let live Flemeth ? I'm sorry, but you don't really love her in my opinion. Or then you think she is lying to you, and you don't trust her at all. I totally trusted my love, I listened to Flemeth and it was clear as water that not everything was right, I chose what I had to do in order to protect someone I cared about. And in the end anyways, what Morrigan said was totally true ! 

 

Alistair leaves if you don't kill Loghain, that's because that's absolute betrayal to him. You wanted maybe to think more about the fate of the country ? It's nice and all.  But you did it to the detriment of your friend and you betrayed him. You betrayed the friendship, it's a fact, even if it is for a good cause and the safety / unity of the country.

 

- Morrigan wanted a baby from the warden, the thing is she didn't plan to fall in love with the warden, which is all the point of the romance. She truly enjoyed the flirting, more than what she was allowed to, it was authentic, while she had her own agenda. So, what you have to understand with her romance is that she was supposed to manipulate the warden with his feelings, and actually it's her who fell into her own trap, falling in love with the warden and making things difficult for her. She has still her own agenda to follow though, because there are things very important to the world that are beyond her own fate and the one of her love. It's the same for her son in DA:I, the unnatural creature. She wasn't supposed to love him and to have feelings for him, and yet this is what happened.

 

I have a save in DAI where my warden didn't follow Morrigan into the mirror. I have listened to her and it was disheartening. It's clear she was in love with him, she only said lovely things about him, about how fate was cruel to both of them, not willing to let them together because of different agenda. Morrigan, deeply loved the warden even if she remains alone in the end. Now maybe you can tell me what she told in your playthrough in DAI about the warden ? 

 

- Except you offered exactly the gift that Cassandra wanted after she told what she liked.  Why would you offer somethiing that tis chantry related to Morrigan, while you know she doesn't like the chantry ?  I offered her the magical tome, she enjoyed it. I'm pretty sure that if you offered a dress to Cassandra, she would have reacted negatively.

 

- As for Josephine. The point wasn't that I wanted a date like it happpened in Trepasser. The point was that she wanted to spend to some time together with her love, out of politics, enjoying her favourite things with him at her side. It's love, it's not the same. 

 

If Cassandra would have told , oooh I want to do some sparring with you because I love that, no choice, come,  I want to enjoy that with you, I would have never thought, oh she is forcing me to do something in order to get her love, I would have just thought, oh she wants me to spend some time with her, okay darling let's go ! What I appreciated with Josephine 's date, isn't the date itself, but the sentiment behind it, the feeling that the relationship is alive. In Trepasser, yes, Cassandra tells you a few things, but again words ( But I agree that they shouldn't discarded either though ). I was disappointed to see that the cutescene with Cassandra was exactly the same as a friend as it was her lover. Now I agree, it might be because of Bioware's laziness..

 

- As for the rumor about the inquisitor in the ending slide, it's likely true, since this line is intended to be read by the players. I like your idea though. I would have loved that Cassandra leaves her duty for the inquisitor, or having a secret darling. But she is not like that, she doesn't work that way. At best, the inquisitor should have moved on and Cassandra too. It isn't healthy to pursue a romance that will never happen again.

 

Now, I'm receptive about a few things you said and consider them with reflection. Maybe I'll retry the romance with Cassandra another day, with what you said in mind. We'll see. For the moment, I'm re-playing DAO. Talking about DAO so much made me want to do another playthrough while it's been years I didn't  touch the game. 

[Arshei]

Seems kinda nasty to go around sabotaging your LIs chance to make a difference in the world when you know its important to her... 

 

I'm sure we can say the same about Anders.

 

 

OH! That "date" was total crap! She just drags you off to some stupid play that you hate and cannot refuse to go to. She gives you no choice. And it's all for her. It's something SHE wants, not you. All you can do is pretend to like it for her sake, or else say something nice to her. That isn't the kind of romance I want. Rabble rabble rabble!

 

You mean like the stupid poem we have to read to Cassandra?

"Read the b*tch some poems, she loves poems"

Josephine at least have good intentions. Cassandra is selfish in her whole romance.

[Sylvianus]

 

Josephine at least have good intentions. 

 

If there is anything that I would considerate absolutely ridiculous, it's saying that it's onesided with Josie. Not only she reacts to the flirting options and blushes, but she shows how much she cares during the whole romance about the inquisitor during the cutescenes, how much she enjoys her intimate moments with him to the point that she would like the world to disappear in order to let them stay that way. She tells that she loves him the way he is, she never required anything in order to get her love approbation while she likes to be courted too, while she is equally an hopeless romantic. She almost cry when he leaves for the final battle, be safe. She wants a date with the inquisitor in Trepasser precisely because she feared that she didn't pay enough attention to him lately even if she chooses what they are going to do. This is pretty much what she claims.

 

There, something that is powerful, when I came back to Skyhold and that Josephine welcomed the inquisitor ! 

 

Seriously, how a man cannot be happy to be received that way ? 

 

 

You can never doubt once that it's cold and one sided feelings with her. 

 

The romance of Josephine might not be perfect ( didn't like the chessy duel ) and can be considered a bit boring, but I truly liked her as my love at least. No doubts. I can figure out a warm relationship working at least.

[robertthebard]

I'm sure we can say the same about Anders.

 

 

 

You mean like the stupid poem we have to read to Cassandra?

"Read the b*tch some poems, she loves poems"

Josephine at least have good intentions. Cassandra is selfish in her whole romance.

Doesn't this post demonstrate a bit of selfishness on your part?  You want to get in her pants, but you expect her to just drop 'em because you want it.  Isn't that a definition of selfishness?

[KaiserShep]

Man, buncha sourpusses can't handle a little poetry.

[Arshei]

Doesn't this post demonstrate a bit of selfishness on your part?  You want to get in her pants, but you expect her to just drop 'em because you want it.  Isn't that a definition of selfishness?

 

That is love.

[Dean_the_Young]

Are you saying you can be fat but like sports?, is totally incompatible, you can't be a thug and then want to be "properly courted" like a lady. Josephine deserves being treated like a lady, what does Cassandra to get that sort of treatment?

Only to get sex you have to become the charming prince she want?

 

Someone clearly doesn't know enough fat people.

[sniper_arrow]

That is love.

 

You must have a very skewed view on love then.

[Arshei]

You must have a very skewed view on love then.

 

[CoM Solaufein]

Everyone loves Inky. Except Viv, and the feeling is mutual Viv.

[robertthebard]

That is love.

I'm sure that's what all stalkers believe.  Sure, it starts out innocently enough:  She/he must love me, she/he was in the same State as me.  But then it devolves into:  They must have wanted me, when I crawled into their house through the window, they were naked in the shower.

 

See what I did there?  The logic is exactly the same, lacking.

[Arshei]

I'm sure that's what all stalkers believe.  Sure, it starts out innocently enough:  She/he must love me, she/he was in the same State as me.  But then it devolves into:  They must have wanted me, when I crawled into their house through the window, they were naked in the shower.

 

See what I did there?  The logic is exactly the same, lacking.

 

If you love someone you don't let your stupid altruism to destroy the relationship, if she prefers her faith over you is very clear how much she loves you.

[Dean_the_Young]

If you love someone you don't let your stupid altruism to destroy the relationship, if she prefers her faith over you is very clear how much she loves you.

 

While it's pretty clear you'd be unable manage a marriage in, say, a military context, it seems counter-intuitive that that makes you some sort of authority on relationships in general.

 

If you're so insecure that you have to be first in absolutely every priority to feel loved, that's kind of your own weakness. I'm not clear why anyone else should lower themselves to your level.

[o Ventus]

This troll thread is still going on?

[KaiserShep]

That is love.

 

 

So am I really the only one that instantly said in my mind "Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no more" when I read this? 

[ModernAcademic]

Someone clearly doesn't know enough fat people.

[Dean_the_Young]

 

My loins burn!