56 réponses à ce sujet

[CardButton]

 

To be fair, Cole also makes it clear that the person he is now is not the person he was then,

 

It's that perspective that generally convinces me to keep Blackwall around.  I've always freed him as Thom in the past, mostly 'cause I thought he would leave the party if I sent him to the Wardens, but I now lean towards the idea that giving him to them is a good compromise, really.  Blackwall's crime is not insignificant, but as Cole also noted, there are plenty of reasons that probably almost all of my companions deserve to be locked in a prison somewhere.

THANK THE MAKER FOR COLE!  

 

Such a good character and an even better setting piece.  Helps players realize that Viv has a soft side (she really doesn't like that he knows that lol). Makes it very apparent that Blackwall is no longer Rainer (he's someone new, someone who wants to do good).  Enlightens (if vaguely) why Solas breaks it off with Lavellan twice (if thats the route you went with).  It's a shame that all that content (and the Dorian + Bull romance) only occurs in party banter, but at least its there. 

[Pistolized]

Alright - so at what point are you lead to believe that giving him to the Wardens is at all possible?  When I went through this, the consensus from the game was that the Wardens had disappeared, there was no proof of his recruitment, and on top of that there was no "give to Wardens" option on the War Table.  I really wanted to give him to the Wardens.

[CardButton]

Alright - so at what point are you lead to believe that giving him to the Wardens is at all possible?  When I went through this, the consensus from the game was that the Wardens had disappeared, there was no proof of his recruitment, and on top of that there was no "give to Wardens" option on the War Table.  I really wanted to give him to the Wardens.

I think ... you have to have finished "Into the Abyss" and then didn't exile the Wardens to have the option?

[MzChaos]

For the same reason I always ultimately save the Chargers my Inquisitor doesn't sacrifice assets for something unproven or superfluous.  For the Chargers ... I don't know what I'm actually getting from an alliance with the Qunari, but I do know exactly what I'm getting with them and she was unwilling to sacrifice tried and true for something unproven and vague.

 

I don't save the Chargers either.

 

Yep... I'm a terrible person.  I let Blackwall rot and I don't save the Chargers.

 

What Blackwall did he did out of greed.  He knew before hand that what he was doing was for money and status.  He heard those children and for whatever self serving reason, be it pride or greed, he killed/allowed them to be killed.  Unless his men were deaf and blind, they must have heard/seen them too.  Just because a superior officer gives a soldier an order does not mean that soldier should follow orders blindly.  Following the orders of a superior is still a choice.  

 

I am also a believer in second chances.  If you show up late for work, dull my favorite blade during practice, forget a special training session, maybe got a little rude with a visiting dignitary... sure... I'll give you a second chance.  Things like that deserve second chances.  Senseless murder is a whole other critter.

 

The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.  

 

When Blackwall was a child, he saw other children being cruel to a living being, watched as they tortured it then ran and hid while they killed it.  Sounds a lot like, he heard those children crying in the carriage, watched as his men killed them then ran and hid while others took the blame he should have shared.  He knew what he was doing was wrong, yet he did it anyway.  It doesn't seem to me like he changed much at all.  Not only that, but I do believe that could have been considered his second chance... and yet he blew it.

 

And with the Chargers.  I refuse to lose an alliance with an entire nation... one so strong that at one time had "fought all the lands of Thedas to a standstill."  The Qunari were only a few hundred strong when they took Kirkwall, and has kept the powerful Tevinter magisters from taking one island for almost one hundred years.  They have dreadnoughts to help us patrol the seas, and have developed the explosive gaatlok which, for the moment, is theirs alone.  They have a strict code of conduct that insures no deceit or treachery to threaten the Inquisition.  I will not sacrifice such an alliance for a handful of men.

[Chardonney]

I always save the Chargers, even before Trespasser. I would never sacrifice them for the sake of an alliance that seems shaky at best. The Qunari are only offering help to defeat Cory and that I can do myself without them. Besides...

Spoiler

according the info gathered in Trespasser, the Qunari seem quite nonchalant about it anyways. Also, saving the Chargers means that I don't end up having to kill one of my friends, namely Bull. That's a win-win scenario for me. The Qunari alliance is definitely not worth losing both the Chargers and Bull.

 

 

 

[CardButton]

I don't save the Chargers either.

 

Yep... I'm a terrible person.  I let Blackwall rot and I don't save the Chargers.

 

What Blackwall did he did out of greed.  He knew before hand that what he was doing was for money and status.  He heard those children and for whatever self serving reason, be it pride or greed, he killed/allowed them to be killed.  Unless his men were deaf and blind, they must have heard/seen them too.  Just because a superior officer gives a soldier an order does not mean that soldier should follow orders blindly.  Following the orders of a superior is still a choice.  

 

I am also a believer in second chances.  If you show up late for work, dull my favorite blade during practice, forget a special training session, maybe got a little rude with a visiting dignitary... sure... I'll give you a second chance.  Things like that deserve second chances.  Senseless murder is a whole other critter.

 

The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.  

 

When Blackwall was a child, he saw other children being cruel to a living being, watched as they tortured it then ran and hid while they killed it.  Sounds a lot like, he heard those children crying in the carriage, watched as his men killed them then ran and hid while others took the blame he should have shared.  He knew what he was doing was wrong, yet he did it anyway.  It doesn't seem to me like he changed much at all.  Not only that, but I do believe that could have been considered his second chance... and yet he blew it.

 

And with the Chargers.  I refuse to lose an alliance with an entire nation... one so strong that at one time had "fought all the lands of Thedas to a standstill."  The Qunari were only a few hundred strong when they took Kirkwall, and has kept the powerful Tevinter magisters from taking one island for almost one hundred years.  They have dreadnoughts to help us patrol the seas, and have developed the explosive gaatlok which, for the moment, is theirs alone.  They have a strict code of conduct that insures no deceit or treachery to threaten the Inquisition.  I will not sacrifice such an alliance for a handful of men.

I take it you didn't disband?  I planned my Inquisition for disbanding right from the beginning (even before Trespasser actually let me do it), so that did play a pretty heavy part in how I decided to deal with the Chargers and Blackwall.  An alliance with the Qunari or support from Orlais meant very little for me in the long term, because they would eventually be allied with a non-existent organization.  Keeping the Chargers and Blackwall around meant they held loyalty to my Inquisitor (ex-Inquisitor now I guess) far more personally ... and that worked for me because I built my Inquisition to only be a temporary balm (the Game does a pretty OK job allowing this sort of play).

 

Thank you Mother Giselle for setting me on my path! 

[Ferretinabun]

I left him - but reluctantly.

 

To be frank, his fate just wasn't mine to decide. Given the choice, I would spare him. But it isn't my choice - he is arrested by Orlesian law, and you can't free him without some fairly shady operations to circumvent the law.

[Dabrikishaw]

Most of the time I free Blackwall entirely, but recently I turned him into a Grey Warden and I liked how happy he was about it in Trespasser.

 

Frankly, Bioware has given us morally comparable or worse companions than Blackwall across the Dragon Age games and asked us to call them friends and lovers. I utterly fail to find Blackwall unworthy of the same treatment, especially because he spent like 10 years randomly helping people afterwards.

[Pistolized]

I think ... you have to have finished "Into the Abyss" and then didn't exile the Wardens to have the option?

Hmmmm, I don't remember the order they went in, but I did keep the Wardens.  I even went back to the War Table mission a few times just to check if a new option was available.  Soooo, I guess I'm going to have to fake it and lie to the Tapestry, or leave Blackwall dead.  

[Gold Dragon]

I left him - but reluctantly.

 

To be frank, his fate just wasn't mine to decide. Given the choice, I would spare him. But it isn't my choice - he is arrested by Orlesian law, and you can't free him without some fairly shady operations to circumvent the law.

 

Josephine's Wartable mission is simply asking for him (I think from Celene herself), and it's shady?

 

Oooooooooo-Kaaaaaaaayyy......

 

If the Wardens are banished (and I think also if he is in your party) he can be banished, too.  Avoids him getting arrested and/or you just never hear it.

 

He can be forced into the Wardens properly if They are NOT banished (also true for Crestwood's mayor).

 

If he is romanced and sent to the Wardens, the implications are he died.

 

Otherwise, he dies if left in the prison once Doom upon all the World is completed; or changes back to Thom Ranier if he's pardoned.

[Forsythia77]

Most of the time I make Blackwall join the Wardens.  Occasionally I'll leave him free to be.  I'm not a total ass and don't free him to keep him in servitude as my boot-licking minion, nor do I leave him in jail to his fate.  I suppose I could, but I am just not that girl.

[Big I]

I always save the Chargers, even before Trespasser. I would never sacrifice them for the sake of an alliance that seems shaky at best. The Qunari are only offering help to defeat Cory and that I can do myself without them. Besides...

Spoiler

according the info gathered in Trespasser, the Qunari seem quite nonchalant about it anyways. Also, saving the Chargers means that I don't end up having to kill one of my friends, namely Bull. That's a win-win scenario for me. The Qunari alliance is definitely not worth losing both the Chargers and Bull.

 

I always sacrifice the Chargers. For the hundred sailors on the Dreadnought, to stop the Venatori attack on Denerim, and to destory the Venatori spy network. But also to try and introduce the qunari to the idea of real diplomacy. It works too, in a Trespasser playthrough where you're allies you can find a note between the Viddasala and the Triumvirate where they're like "WTF are you doing?" to her. They even try to preserve the alliance after Trespasser.

[CardButton]

I always sacrifice the Chargers. For the hundred sailors on the Dreadnought, to stop the Venatori attack on Denerim, and to destory the Venatori spy network. But also to try and introduce the qunari to the idea of real diplomacy. It works too, in a Trespasser playthrough where you're allies you can find a note between the Viddasala and the Triumvirate where they're like "WTF are you doing?" to her. They even try to preserve the alliance after Trespasser.

I take it you didn't disband?  It seems like most players even before Trespasser decided generally if they planned on making the Organization a lasting pillar of stability for the world or only a temporary tool there to get the world back on its feet and then expire.  Essentially they had an inkling as to whether they would disband or keep the Inquisition even if they never actually got the decision in game ... and I'm thinking that played a pretty large role in how people approached the Blackwall and Chargers decision.  If you wanted a lasting organization you prioritized building lasting alliances, if you planned to end it your prioritized strong personal connections.

 

Though I could be wrong... just my assumption based off some of the themes I've seen here. 

[MzChaos]

I take it you didn't disband?

My Herald/Inquisitor is no psychic.  He/she has no reason to believe that their presence is required beyond closing the breach... then dealing with Corypheus.  As far as they are concerned, as soon as this is over, they are going to get on with life as best as they can in the state it is in.  

 

Trespasser had no influence in my decisions at all.  I hadn't even played it when I made my decisions.  I knew that it was a continuation of the game, but had no idea what it was about.

 

My decisions are based on the way I would handle a situation should it arise.  I could cite events in history (Earth history) that would shed a clearer light on my decisions, but I am certain the post would be too long and boring to most.  

 

"It is the greatest good to the greatest number of people which is the measure of right and wrong," ~ Jeremy Bentham 

[giveamanafish...]

THANK THE MAKER FOR COLE!  

 

Such a good character and an even better setting piece.  Helps players realize that Viv has a soft side (she really doesn't like that he knows that lol). Makes it very apparent that Blackwall is no longer Rainer (he's someone new, someone who wants to do good).  Enlightens (if vaguely) why Solas breaks it off with Lavellan twice (if thats the route you went with).  It's a shame that all that content (and the Dorian + Bull romance) only occurs in party banter, but at least its there. 

I'm just going thru another playthrough (all the fing new games I want are digital download and I have a metered connection). A couple of things I picked up I didn't notice before:

1) if you go thru the village (not Redcliff) in the Hinterlands before you look for Blackwall the first time, you can ask Giles (the old farmer leaning against the bridge) about Blackwall. He will give you an idea about what Blackwall has been doing to (as we learn later) atone for his past and how heroic he is;

 

2) Blackwall clearly lies about his past early on. In Haven, if you ask where he was during the last Blight, he claims to have been in Ferelden, which if I remember DAO correctly, can't be true (most people probably know this one already);

 

3) Vivenne's VO is great, the way she modulates her voice away from her put-on voice when she talks about her past with Cole, and also with Cassandra and Varric (?) gives you a lot of insight into her character. She even goes full Cockney or Scouser at one point (Brit accents not my speciality).

(PC with Banter Cheat Table is great.)

[CoM Solaufein]

If he wasn't one of my best fighters, I'd send him to the gibbet. Some times you have to put away personal feelings and do what is best for the Inquisition.

[Patricia08]

@CardButton

 

Yes that is what i meant in all my playthroughs i cannot recall they ever mentioned Allistair and i did not know there was a file but i have to play Dragon Age 1 and 2 first right ? to get those files wel this is my first Dragon Age game so i guess that would be the reason that i don't have those files right ? 

 

Even if you know what he did he killed innocent women and children out of greed i cannot just forget that maybe he is a better man now but what he did in the past is unforgivable

And the chargers i always save them to i went for the Dreadnaught once in one of my playthroughs just to see what it would bring me but i am not going to do that again

[Big I]

 It seems like most players even before Trespasser decided generally if they planned on making the Organization a lasting pillar of stability for the world or only a temporary tool there to get the world back on its feet and then expire.  Essentially they had an inkling as to whether they would disband or keep the Inquisition even if they never actually got the decision in game ... and I'm thinking that played a pretty large role in how people approached the Blackwall and Chargers decision.  If you wanted a lasting organization you prioritized building lasting alliances, if you planned to end it your prioritized strong personal connections.

 

Though I could be wrong... just my assumption based off some of the themes I've seen here. 

 

I don't know about anyone else, but you're certainly right about my motivations. Everything I did in the game I did to strengthen the Inquisition and make it last. I knew there'd be a lot of work to do to save Thedas even after the Elder One was defeated.

[Patricia08]

@MzChaos

 

I agree totaly on the Blackwall thing

 

And for the second chance thing i agree with you also senseless murder is not something i can't forget either

 

And with the Chargers in this case i do not agree with you from a Inquisitor point of view i do agree because an allians with the Qunari is off course the best way for the Inquisition to go but on the other hand the Chargers wel i could not bring myself to sacrifice them i did that once but not again

[BSpud]

Make him a Grey Warden. Come on, it's so goddamn obvious what his most fitting fate should be.

[themikefest]

My first playthrough I got him out of jail. More for the dialogue than anything else.

 

In playthroughs where I talked with him, after recruiting him, I leave him in prison to keep the rats company.

 

So yeah. Leave him in prison and let his henchmen join him.

 

When I play the trespasser dlc, don't know when, I will get him out of jail for that.

[CardButton]

@CardButton

 

Yes that is what i meant in all my playthroughs i cannot recall they ever mentioned Allistair and i did not know there was a file but i have to play Dragon Age 1 and 2 first right ? to get those files wel this is my first Dragon Age game so i guess that would be the reason that i don't have those files right ? 

 

No there is a website that Bioware created for Dragon Age world state transfers called the Dragon Age Keep.  You just kinda ... go on there and fiddle around with some murals (which hold most of the decisions for those games) and then you can upload it to a new game for Dragon Age: Inquisition.  I mean if you wan't to get the full experience and get context for a lot of the choices in DA:K you should totally play the older two games, but its by no means required. 

[correctamundo]

Since Thedas is a better place with Ranier free and on redemption spree I release him. Most of my Inquisitors have done worse in their respective former lives anyway.

[ArcadiaGrey]

I'm one of those players who does everything, all the options over many playthroughs.  If I played many times but always freed him or always left him to rot it would just stop me from seeing all the outcomes and hearing the different dialogues. 

 

As usual, BioWare leave you enough room to justify any of the options.

[Patricia08]

@CardButton

 

Thank you i did not know that i will definitely check it out and if Dragon Age 1 and 2 are as great as Inquistion then i will check them out as wel