154 réponses à ce sujet

[Addictress]

I support it. They had this eerie, dark, 80'sish vibe in ME1. Hard to explain. The very sound of the way the doors opened... the awesome electronic soundtrack. It created a unique feeling.

 

I don't warn it to look like Crysis, Dead Space, and Halo. Those guys are already out there. I want Mass Effect to maintain its own style. I don't have any complaints about ME2 and ME3 at all and wouldn't change them, but I definitely saw a converging of styles among all the sci fi games in the past several years, and when you go back and replay ME1, it sends chills up your spine. Good chills. So yes, I would appreciate if they returned to that.

[Addictress]

Ugh... the MEA armor looks ridiculous  I liked the simpler, more realistic 'wetsuit' designs. Come on, would the Alliance/NASA really splurge on these fantastical constructs? 

[SNascimento]

Ugh... the MEA armor looks ridiculous   

Luckly, you have almost a year to get used to them. 

[In Exile]

I support it. They had this eerie, dark, 80'sish vibe in ME1. Hard to explain. The very sound of the way the doors opened... the awesome electronic soundtrack. It created a unique feeling.

 

I don't warn it to look like Crysis, Dead Space, and Halo. Those guys are already out there. I want Mass Effect to maintain its own style. I don't have any complaints about ME2 and ME3 at all and wouldn't change them, but I definitely saw a converging of styles among all the sci fi games in the past several years, and when you go back and replay ME1, it sends chills up your spine. Good chills. So yes, I would appreciate if they returned to that.

 

That's not what the game went for at all. It certainly didn't go for erie or dark. The darkest it got was the part that was a homage to Aliens, i.e., Noveria. Except that it wasn't dark or scary at all, because we were invincible ubermensch. 

[N7M]

Yes, to a return. ME1 was greater than the sum of it's parts. The attention to the aesthetic use of negative space in the overall design created the most compelling science fiction game world of the three.

[Killroy]

That's not what the game went for at all. It certainly didn't go for erie or dark. The darkest it got was the part that was a homage to Aliens, i.e., Noveria. Except that it wasn't dark or scary at all, because we were invincible ubermensch. 

 

Eldritch Horrors? Organ-stealing doctors? Experiments on unwilling human subjects? Zombies? 

None of these things qualifies as eerie or dark?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

As a guess, maybe you can "bulk up" a lighter armor with different pieces. 

That sounds similar to what Bioware described as what they were aiming for in MEA during ComicCon 2014. They talked about how the underarmor would be the casual outfit or at least one of the options for the casual outfit, and then armor pieces would be added on while on missions. Similar to how the Halo franchise has the Mjolnir armor with the Spartans. When offduty and standing by on the ship, they wear their underarmor and when going out in the field the outer armor is equipped.

[In Exile]

Eldritch Horrors? Organ-stealing doctors? Experiments on unwilling human subjects? Zombies? 

None of these things qualifies as eerie or dark?

 

No. Because it's not just the subject matter - it's how the player experiences it and how empowered the player is while all of that is going on. The difference between Rambo and a gritty war drama about human fragility in the face of war is the ubermensch indestructibility of the protagonist and the aesthetic of the film. In ME, Shepard is an unkillable ubersmench. We don't see the organ-stealing doctor steal organs - we find him begging for his life after we massacre some re-skinned thorian mooks. We don't experience the horror. We experience the empowerment. 

 

ME2 and ME3 have some real horror elements - especially body horror, with the variety of husks and the melt-down chambers, but ME1 is tame.  

[LinksOcarina]

There certainly will be. The armor from the trailer for example looks sleeker than the one in the OP. As a guess, maybe you can "bulk up" a lighter armor with different pieces. 

 

So something reminiscent of the armor pieces system from Inquisition?

 

I can hope at least, the customizable suites in Mass Effect 2 and 3 were good but rather simplistic. 

[RoboticWater]

Yes, to a return. ME1 was greater than the sum of it's parts. The attention to the aesthetic use of negative space in the overall design created the most compelling science fiction game world of the three.

Where did ME1 use negative space? The game was definitely less detailed than the others, but I wouldn't describe that as an effective use of negative space.

[In Exile]

Where did ME1 use negative space? The game was certainly less cluttered, but I wouldn't describe that as an effective use of negative space.

 

I guess the barren worlds? Though I wouldn't call that a good use of negative space, or even a use of negative space at all - that wasn't what they were going for with it.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I really don't want to return to the ME1 aesthetic. The graphics are really dated. I didn't like the wetsuit look. And I'd like the weapons to look like... well weapons. I'd also like to explore areas that look different and explore the same area two dozen times in two dozen different places. I'd like to meet interesting characters with whom to interact. I'd like to meet interesting good guys and interesting bad guys. And finally a really good story.

[RoboticWater]

I guess the barren worlds? Though I wouldn't call that a good use of negative space, or even a use of negative space at all - that wasn't what they were going for with it.

I assumed that wyrdx probably meant that ME1 had a more sparse aesthetic, but I'm a stickler for Graphic Design terminology.

 

On a more relevant note: I would say that the simpler look of ME1 has a certain charm to it, but (and this is probably a product of graphical limitations at the time) there was a flatness and sterility to the design that makes me think "cheap." I look at the ME1 armor and it seems like some of the armor plates (especially on the legs) are drawn on with sharpie. I'd like to see an updated version of ME1's aesthetic, because I think it can work, just with a bit more depth and detail.

 

However, I do still like the sharper look of the newer games (including the preview image from ME:A) a bit more. Although, BioWare should probably tone down the Halo just a smidge.

[Addictress]

That's not what the game went for at all. It certainly didn't go for erie or dark. The darkest it got was the part that was a homage to Aliens, i.e., Noveria. Except that it wasn't dark or scary at all, because we were invincible ubermensch. 

Dark is not necessarily graphic or grotesque.

 

Gamers need to stop conflating these feels.

 

Dark can also be... existential. Being on an empty planet with nothing but the mako and your two companions while the stars and planets loom ahead and the sound of wind howling - air consisting of foreign compositions. A hostile nature you can't possibly find on your home world.

 

This is dark. No, there aren't any beheadings or brood mothers, but it feels... philosophically disquieting to my soul all the same. I like that.

[In Exile]

Dark is not necessarily graphic or grotesque.

 

Gamers need to stop conflating these feels.

 

Dark can also be... existential. Being on an empty planet with nothing but the mako and your two companions while the stars and planets loom ahead and the sound of wind howling - air consisting of foreign compositions. A hostile nature you can't possibly find on your home world.

 

This is dark. No, there aren't any beheadings or brood mothers, but it feels... philosophically disquieting to my soul all the same. I like that.

 

But it's not. Because you're not "actually" on an empty planet with nothing but the Mako and your two companions and the sound of the wind. You're part of an intergalactic crew you're actively in radio contact, making the equivalent of a trip to the country-side. This is a purely personal experience on your part, but I absolutely contest that there's anything existential about it. 

 

From the point of view of the characters, this is an incredibly mundane phenomena in a world absolutely rife and teeming with non-human life. From our player perspective, again, same thing. 

 

I don't disagree that dread can be existential. I just disagree that ME1 comes within a hundred thousand feet of an existential theme. The closest we see is the absolutely brilliant "I remember me". Now that is a dark scene, but it's a rare moment, and it's dark precisely for the reasons I point out: it's all about disempowering the protagonist, and everything about that scene is about powerlessness and abuse. Shepard's lack of power is stressed - careful approach, repeated all done by dialogue, constant stories of abuse and a lack of power, etc. 

[slimgrin]

Would be cool to start in the ME1 suit as a matter of circumstance, meaning it's the only gear available, and then upgrade to badassery later. 

[AlanC9]

Not just the armours from ME1 (some are definitely ugly) but the overall tone and vibe that came from certain design choices. The granular widget, the sleek, almost B movie-esque armour designs, and the scifi technopop all contributed to this cheesy scifi TV show appeal. It was a pretty unique style to video games, on my opinion.
By ME3, it felt a little more grandiose and modern, and the aesthetics lacked the personality that ME1 had, for better or worse.

I'm still not seeing it. Can you give a couple of specific things to look at?

For that matter, what TV shows and movies are we talking about?

[Killroy]

No. Because it's not just the subject matter - it's how the player experiences it and how empowered the player is while all of that is going on. The difference between Rambo and a gritty war drama about human fragility in the face of war is the ubermensch indestructibility of the protagonist and the aesthetic of the film. In ME, Shepard is an unkillable ubersmench. We don't see the organ-stealing doctor steal organs - we find him begging for his life after we massacre some re-skinned thorian mooks. We don't experience the horror. We experience the empowerment. 

 

ME2 and ME3 have some real horror elements - especially body horror, with the variety of husks and the melt-down chambers, but ME1 is tame.  

But it's not. Because you're not "actually" on an empty planet with nothing but the Mako and your two companions and the sound of the wind. You're part of an intergalactic crew you're actively in radio contact, making the equivalent of a trip to the country-side. This is a purely personal experience on your part, but I absolutely contest that there's anything existential about it. 

 

From the point of view of the characters, this is an incredibly mundane phenomena in a world absolutely rife and teeming with non-human life. From our player perspective, again, same thing. 

 

I don't disagree that dread can be existential. I just disagree that ME1 comes within a hundred thousand feet of an existential theme. The closest we see is the absolutely brilliant "I remember me". Now that is a dark scene, but it's a rare moment, and it's dark precisely for the reasons I point out: it's all about disempowering the protagonist, and everything about that scene is about powerlessness and abuse. Shepard's lack of power is stressed - careful approach, repeated all done by dialogue, constant stories of abuse and a lack of power, etc.

 

Your arguments are counter-intuitive. Nothing could ever satisfy these artificial criteria. You say the player's feeling of invulnerability makes horror/scary elements not horrific or scary, but then you go on to say that what the player feels doesn't matter at all. 

[AlanC9]

Where did say that what the player feels doesn't matter?

[Steelcan]

I think BioWare should look more closely at mixing around aesthetic designs, give us some 80's sci-fi with some horror aesthetics on occasion

[SnakeCode]

I think BioWare should look more closely at mixing around aesthetic designs, give us some 80's sci-fi with some horror aesthetics on occasion

 

A mix of Blade Runner and Alien would be very cool.

[Killroy]

Where did say that what the player feels doesn't matter?

But it's not. Because you're not "actually" on an empty planet with nothing but the Mako and your two companions and the sound of the wind.

[Gago]

Overall no.

[In Exile]

Your arguments are counter-intuitive. Nothing could ever satisfy these artificial criteria. You say the player's feeling of invulnerability makes horror/scary elements not horrific or scary, but then you go on to say that what the player feels doesn't matter at all. 

 

That's not what I said. I said that the player character being invulnerable undercuts any idea of horror and powerlessness. Adictress disagreed. She said that from the character point of view, there is existential dread: "an empty planet with nothing but the mako and your two companions while the stars and planets loom ahead and the sound of wind howling - air consisting of foreign compositions. A hostile nature you can't possibly find on your home world". 

 

My point was that there was no such thing from the character perspective. This view conflates our perception of space - as players, on planet Earth - with the character experience. As players, we are not actually in outer space. We're not actually confined in the mako with two other people with nothing but nothingness around us. As characters, the experience is very mundane. Going to a barren world like that is actually less difficult than it would be for me to find wilderness. Shepard has an entire crew and support staff. 

 

Adictress might experience existential dread - but that's about his or her subjective experience as to what it would be like to be in Shepard's position but totally divorced from Shepard's actual perspective. It's a conflation of the in and out of character perspective.

 

More to the point, I literally give you an example of what satisfies the criteria. You even quote it. 

[AlanC9]

Where did say that what the player feels doesn't matter?

But it's not. Because you're not "actually" on an empty planet with nothing but the Mako and your two companions and the sound of the wind.

You did read the rest of that passage, right? You've got the ship and everybody right there with you, ready to assist if things get tough.

I read that argument as meaning that you couldn't come away with that set of feelings since the game situation doesn't support them. But I suppose this is actually an argument that feelings matter, but that those particular feelings are just wrong because they're bad RP.

Now that I think about it, this explains a lot of talk about ME1 that always sounded kind of silly; namely, the stuff about how ME1 really brought home the immensity and desolation of the universe, and so forth. This always struck me as a bad goal even if ME1 had succeeded at it, though it couldn't succeed at this for me anyway since I don't project myself into the situations. But it's only a bad goal if the important thing is to share your PC's perspective on the game-world.