98 réponses à ce sujet

[Dai Grepher]

Sure, a cure theoretically exists. Though if the Wardens who studied Fiona herself couldn't figure it out, the HoF probably won't.

 

Morrigan is an idiot, who can become enslaved to her own mother because of the dumb reckless decisions she makes, so yes, I wouldn't put it past her to accidentally send the HoF off on a goose chase. The well has no effect on whether the HoF finds as cure, as they come back regardless.

 

The fandom complained that the HoF was off on some chase away from their love interest, so I wouldn't be surprised if Bioware did change it simply to let them have a peaceful happy life with their LI. And they still have an entire decade left. They were gone for several years, I don't find it surprising that maybe they wanted to see the people they cared about again after that amount of time.

 

The Wardens studied the result, not the cause. Morrigan's information was more relevant.

 

Someone needed to take the information in the Well. Morrigan sacrificed her life to save the world. It was stupid, but it was also necessary. Making a reckless choice for herself isn't the same as sending someone else on a wild goose chase. She provided information to the Hero. The Hero chose to pursue it. So unless the Hero is an idiot too, then the information was solid.

 

The Well is just an extra measure that ensures the probability of success. The fact that the Hero returns regardless indicates that the mission is successful regardless.

 

But if they return in the middle of the mission then all that time searching was for nothing.

[robertthebard]

He exposed the false Calling. He didn't end it. He didn't kill the Nightmare. He eventually ended it by killing Corypheus, though that was more of a side benefit to the actual goal of destroying Corypheus.

 

The Ult Sac Hero has a tomb at Weisshaupt as a monument to his life. Since we will probably visit Weisshaupt in DA4, the Hero's tomb should be accessible. In which case the tomb should reflect the custom character and be relevant to that character's backstory.
 

Actually, the spell was broken  when you came out of the Fade, otherwise the debate about exiling or not would be moot.  If they're still under the influence of Cory through the demon, they have to go.

[Dai Grepher]

But they are always susceptible to Cory. It's even stated that they are still vulnerable to Cory if you let them stay. The spell wasn't broken after Adamant. It's just that the Wardens then realized that it was the Nightmare amplifying Cory's power of speaking through the taint. The Wardens were not being controlled, they were being tricked. 

[robertthebard]

But they are always susceptible to Cory. It's even stated that they are still vulnerable to Cory if you let them stay. The spell wasn't broken after Adamant. It's just that the Wardens then realized that it was the Nightmare amplifying Cory's power of speaking through the taint. The Wardens were not being controlled, they were being tricked. 

So the illusion of control was removed.  What happens when you dispel an illusion?  Yes, Cory can manipulate the Wardens.  This is nothing new, it was demonstrated in DA 2.  However, the mindnumbing terror of the calling was removed.  The Warden with a  speaking part made that relatively clear when you come out of the Fade, and are given the choice to keep or exile them.

[Abyss108]

The Wardens studied the result, not the cause. Morrigan's information was more relevant.

 

Someone needed to take the information in the Well. Morrigan sacrificed her life to save the world. It was stupid, but it was also necessary. Making a reckless choice for herself isn't the same as sending someone else on a wild goose chase. She provided information to the Hero. The Hero chose to pursue it. So unless the Hero is an idiot too, then the information was solid.

 

The Well is just an extra measure that ensures the probability of success. The fact that the Hero returns regardless indicates that the mission is successful regardless.

 

But if they return in the middle of the mission then all that time searching was for nothing.

 

I'm sure the Wardens studied every possibility for a cure, and have been since they first discovered the Calling. Unless you think the HoF is the only person with any sense of self preservation, or is just smarter than every other Warden who has ever lived put together.

 

Morrigan certainly didn't sacrifice herself for the world. She wanted the power. She always has. Saving the world might have been a side result, but that wasn't her motivation. The Warden has no way of knowing how accurate Morrigans information was. And even if they did think it was bad information, its not like they had any other leads to pursue instead. It's investigate what is probably bad information, or do nothing.

 

Once again, the well has no effect. Unless you are claiming game states that had Morrogan drink will have the cure, but not other states. The well has nothing to do with the Blight anyway. There is nothing to suggest it has any information about it outside of your own head. It could do, bit you could equally claim Morrigan just found the information in the Fade, or in the Skyhold library, etc. Nothing to suggest any of this in the actual game.

 

Finding a cure is important enough and big enough that's its going to be mentioned. It has not been mentioned.

[Dai Grepher]

So the illusion of control was removed.  What happens when you dispel an illusion?  Yes, Cory can manipulate the Wardens.  This is nothing new, it was demonstrated in DA 2.  However, the mindnumbing terror of the calling was removed.  The Warden with a  speaking part made that relatively clear when you come out of the Fade, and are given the choice to keep or exile them.

 

The trick was exposed as a trick. That didn't remove the false Calling, just let the Wardens know they should not worry about it. Not diminishing what the Inquisitor did (with the help of Hawke and "Alistrogain"), just clearly identifying what was done and what was not.
 

[TheKomandorShepard]

I'm sure the Wardens studied every possibility for a cure, and have been since they first discovered the Calling. Unless you think the HoF is the only person with any sense of self preservation, or is just smarter than every other Warden who has ever lived put together.

 

I wouldn't be suprised if they didn't , or did succeeded to find cure but decided to not share with it and send wardens on deep roads to serve as "kamikaze".Well, it isn't that grey wardens care about retirement of their people they are more foucused on killing darkspawn so pretty much i would see them sooner trying upgrade grey wardens like Avernus tried than searching for the cure.

[Abyss108]

I wouldn't be suprised if they didn't , or did succeeded to find cure but decided to not share with it and send wardens on deep roads to serve as "kamikaze".Well, it isn't that grey wardens care about retirement of their people they are more foucused on killing darkspawn so pretty much i would see them sooner trying upgrade grey wardens like Avernus tried than searching for the cure.

 

I'd agree if it wasn't for the fact that doing this would mean that the higher ups were choosing to kill themselves. Sending underlings to die - sure! Keeping information that would save their own life - hmm.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I'd agree if it wasn't for the fact that doing this would mean that the higher ups were choosing to kill themselves. Sending underlings to die - sure! Keeping information that would save their own life - hmm.

Well it would depend who higher ups were, for example im pretty sure fanatic would be fine with dying as long fanatic mission is carried (though unlikely as eventually someone less-fanatical that got position would decide to use it) but simply grey wardens could have destroyed any evidence of the cure after they found it and decided to forget about it.

[Dai Grepher]

I'm sure the Wardens studied every possibility for a cure, and have been since they first discovered the Calling. Unless you think the HoF is the only person with any sense of self preservation, or is just smarter than every other Warden who has ever lived put together.

 

Morrigan certainly didn't sacrifice herself for the world. She wanted the power. She always has. Saving the world might have been a side result, but that wasn't her motivation. The Warden has no way of knowing how accurate Morrigans information was. And even if they did think it was bad information, its not like they had any other leads to pursue instead. It's investigate what is probably bad information, or do nothing.

 

Once again, the well has no effect. Unless you are claiming game states that had Morrogan drink will have the cure, but not other states. The well has nothing to do with the Blight anyway. There is nothing to suggest it has any information about it outside of your own head. It could do, bit you could equally claim Morrigan just found the information in the Fade, or in the Skyhold library, etc. Nothing to suggest any of this in the actual game.

 

Finding a cure is important enough and big enough that's its going to be mentioned. It has not been mentioned.

 

Smarter than every other Warden, yes. Mine is having Avernus research the taint ethically, and in DA2 a breakthrough on the subject had been shown to have been discovered. It seems the Origins Warden and his allies are the only ones researching the taint and making discoveries.

 

The Hero had Avernus as an alternate avenue of research. Avernus had discovered a way to expand a Warden's life, which means the cure information was even better than what Avernus had found. I'm sure he consulted with Avernus, Irving, and others before leaving. Whatever Morrigan's motivations, she put her life on the line for the chance at helping the world however she could. She didn't do it out of desire to become more powerful. She wanted to help. So she wouldn't have given the Hero that information had she not been 100% sure that it was helpful.

 

If it had been weak information, then my Hero would have just stayed in Denerim and ruled over Ferelden along with his beautiful wife. The fact that this mission takes years is proof that there is something to it.

 

No, I'm claiming all worldstates will have the cure be found. The Well's knowledge being in Morrigan's mind makes the quest more likely to succeed, and thus all Heroes will succeed regardless. Her increased knowledge of the arcane and history will aid in the quest. And since BioWare likes to funnel wordstates into one outcome as much as possible, it will be the case here as well. The information Morrigan found is suggested to be linked to the elven histories. The Well holds more of that history, and Morrigan tells the Inquisitor that her elven writings make more sense to her now that she has the knowledge of the Well. So again, her newfound knowledge will aid in the search for the cure.

 

It hasn't been mentioned because it is big. They are saving it for the next game. They hint at it based on the rumors of a civil war within the ranks of the Grey Wardens.

[Abyss108]

Smarter than every other Warden, yes. Mine is having Avernus research the taint ethically, and in DA2 a breakthrough on the subject had been shown to have been discovered. It seems the Origins Warden and his allies are the only ones researching the taint and making discoveries.

 

The Hero had Avernus as an alternate avenue of research. Avernus had discovered a way to expand a Warden's life, which means the cure information was even better than what Avernus had found. I'm sure he consulted with Avernus, Irving, and others before leaving. Whatever Morrigan's motivations, she put her life on the line for the chance at helping the world however she could. She didn't do it out of desire to become more powerful. She wanted to help. So she wouldn't have given the Hero that information had she not been 100% sure that it was helpful.

 

If it had been weak information, then my Hero would have just stayed in Denerim and ruled over Ferelden along with his beautiful wife. The fact that this mission takes years is proof that there is something to it.

 

No, I'm claiming all worldstates will have the cure be found. The Well's knowledge being in Morrigan's mind makes the quest more likely to succeed, and thus all Heroes will succeed regardless. Her increased knowledge of the arcane and history will aid in the quest. And since BioWare likes to funnel wordstates into one outcome as much as possible, it will be the case here as well. The information Morrigan found is suggested to be linked to the elven histories. The Well holds more of that history, and Morrigan tells the Inquisitor that her elven writings make more sense to her now that she has the knowledge of the Well. So again, her newfound knowledge will aid in the search for the cure.

 

It hasn't been mentioned because it is big. They are saving it for the next game. They hint at it based on the rumors of a civil war within the ranks of the Grey Wardens.

 

So you think Bioware is going to funnel everything into one world state and that one world state is going to coincidentally align with all the dicisions you made.

 

Well, at least it should be interesting to see my dead Warden return from a quest for the cure, based off information Morrigan never gave her, and helped along from the Well which Morrigan never drank from. I'm sure that research Avernas never did will be mentioned too! 

 

A cure for the taint may be found in the next game, but its not going to be based off a bunch of actions that didn't occur in a lot of people's games.

 

And your hero wouldn't have stayed in Denerim, they would have run off on whatever wild chase Bioware wanted them too simply to get them out of the way of the plot in a terrible attempt to stop the warden fanboys crying about how their character isn't the center of the universe anymore.

[Dai Grepher]

So you think Bioware is going to funnel everything into one world state and that one world state is going to coincidentally align with all the dicisions you made.

 

Well, at least it should be interesting to see my dead Warden return from a quest for the cure, based off information Morrigan never gave her, and helped along from the Well which Morrigan never drank from. I'm sure that research Avernas never did will be mentioned too! 

 

A cure for the taint may be found in the next game, but its not going to be based off a bunch of actions that didn't occur in a lot of people's games.

 

And your hero wouldn't have stayed in Denerim, they would have run off on whatever wild chase Bioware wanted them too simply to get them out of the way of the plot in a terrible attempt to stop the warden fanboys crying about how their character isn't the center of the universe anymore.

 

No. I think BioWare already funneled the Heroes into one storyline (the cure quest), and BioWare will continue this funneling by concluding the storyline with success. The Well's knowledge is just a safety net of sorts. The Hero will find the cure regardless, but in case he wouldn't have, Morrigan would have been there to help with the Well's knowledge. Or maybe she actively volunteers it if she drank, thus helping the Hero rather than having him figure it out himself.

 

Morrigan always provides the info to at least some Warden, even if its the Orlesian Warden. That will be the Warden who returns with the cure in that worldstate (same set of voice actors, same gender/race/class/spec combos as the Hero).

 

No, if anything he would follow the same path as Alistair had he been elected king.

[diaspora2k5]

Blood magic has been used to remove the taint from a living thing and have it be absorbed by the caster. This was back during the Exalted age too I think.

[Deebo305]

Arshei your threads are just the best

Haven't laughed this hard on Bioware forums in quite some time

[AedanStarfang]

The HOF doesn't matter any more, and frankly most of Thedas outside of the Wardens don't care for him/her considering most of Thedas didn't even know a Blight was rising in Ferelden in the first place.

That's a pretty shitty attitude for the rest of the world to have even if what the HOF accomplished was a long time ago its effects still stand, but of course it'd be a different story if they were all ass-deep in Darkspawn and Red Lyrium "oh no wurz our hero at?" 

[diaspora2k5]

That's a pretty shitty attitude for the rest of the world to have even if what the HOF accomplished was a long time ago its effects still stand, but of course it'd be a different story if they were all ass-deep in Darkspawn and Red Lyrium "oh no wurz our hero at?" 

Well, no, even then I doubt they'd turn to the HOF over say Weisshaupt leadership where thousands of Wardens are battling darkspawn daily. I mean in the grand scheme of events in Thedas, the HOF's accomplishments are relatively minor.

[In Exile]

That's a pretty shitty attitude for the rest of the world to have even if what the HOF accomplished was a long time ago its effects still stand, but of course it'd be a different story if they were all ass-deep in Darkspawn and Red Lyrium "oh no wurz our hero at?" 

 

How is this medieval world supposed to know there was a real blight instead of Ferelden hysteria and propaganda about a large darkspawn raid? 

[AedanStarfang]

How is this medieval world supposed to know there was a real blight instead of Ferelden hysteria and propaganda about a large darkspawn raid? 

Well the hordes of fleeing refugees, and the hanging tainted corpses and the forests turned-meat moss would be a good indicator for one... If Oblivion (also a Medieval world) has a newspaper then the rest of Thedas could have some sort of informative herald with weekly updates. Also you make it seem like the rest of Thedas is blind when there are organizations such as the Crows and the Red Jennies (whom were active during DAO) who could watch and relay information via their spy networks, so the other parts of Thedas had to have at least heard of a coming blight even if they ultimately chose to ignore it and hope it went away (which it eventually did but not in the blissfully ignorant way they were thinking of).

[TheKomandorShepard]

Well, no, even then I doubt they'd turn to the HOF over say Weisshaupt leadership where thousands of Wardens are battling darkspawn daily. I mean in the grand scheme of events in Thedas, the HOF's accomplishments are relatively minor.

Well , i wouldn't say that shortest blight lasted for 12 years and that was before grey wardnes destroyed their advantage, while fifth blight lasted for 1 year.Who knows how long fifth blight could have lasted or if it would defated at all. 

 

 

Well the hordes of fleeing refugees, and the hanging tainted corpses and the forests turned-meat moss would be a good indicator for one... If Oblivion (also a Medieval world) has a newspaper then the rest of Thedas could have some sort of informative herald with weekly updates. Also you make it seem like the rest of Thedas is blind when there are organizations such as the Crows and the Red Jennies (whom were active during DAO) who could watch and relay information via their spy networks, so the other parts of Thedas had to have at least heard of a coming blight even if they ultimately chose to ignore it and hope it went away (which it eventually did but not in the blissfully ignorant way they were thinking of).

I would argue with that Crows (and similar organisations) , nobles and scholars would be easily verify it but average peasant would have to rely pretty much on rumors and knowing nobility they got caught up in them as well.

[Fylimar]

Well the hordes of fleeing refugees, and the hanging tainted corpses and the forests turned-meat moss would be a good indicator for one... If Oblivion (also a Medieval world) has a newspaper then the rest of Thedas could have some sort of informative herald with weekly updates. Also you make it seem like the rest of Thedas is blind when there are organizations such as the Crows and the Red Jennies (whom were active during DAO) who could watch and relay information via their spy networks, so the other parts of Thedas had to have at least heard of a coming blight even if they ultimately chose to ignore it and hope it went away (which it eventually did but not in the blissfully ignorant way they were thinking of).

 

I don't think, that the Crows and the Red Jennies had any interest in sharing their knowledge with the world. They would have to answer some questions, that would put them in a spotlight (not cool for organisations, relaying on secrecy).

Plus, Loghain and his lackies did everything they could, to play the Blight down and making the betrayal of the Grey Wardens the real issue. The refugees mostly came from Ostagar, Kocari Wilds and Lothering - compared to the rest of Ferelden very small pieces of land. Many fled the country altogether as seen in DA2. And don't forget that people mostly care about their own problems - so a Darkspawn attack on the other end of the country would probably be of no interest to peasants in Denerim, who have their own every day problems to struggle with. 

I find it only logical, that the HoF is mostly forgotten - there are exceptions: the eople of Redcliffe (if saved), Eamons family (if saved), the mages of Kinloch Hold (if saved), the dwarves for sure, because one way or another, the HoF gave them a king and the Dalish and/or the (former) werewolves. You see how many ifs and maybes there are? The Dalish and the dwarves have not much contact to the Ferelden society (maybe more with Bhelen and Lanaya instead of Harrowmont and Zathrian or lady of the forrest).

I

[Mistic]

Well , i wouldn't say that shortest blight lasted for 12 years and that was before grey wardnes destroyed their advantage, while fifth blight lasted for 1 year.Who knows how long fifth blight could have lasted or if it would defated at all. 

 

You are right, but usually we don't appreciate how disasters were averted as much as how disasters were solved. For people in Tevinter and Nevarra, the situation before and after the Fifth Blight was exactly the same. For closer countries, like the Free Marches, it just meant getting a huge number of refugees. For a supposedly end-of-the-world scenario, the last Blight was pretty mild.

 

I find it only logical, that the HoF is mostly forgotten - there are exceptions: the eople of Redcliffe (if saved), Eamons family (if saved), the mages of Kinloch Hold (if saved), the dwarves for sure, because one way or another, the HoF gave them a king and the Dalish and/or the (former) werewolves. You see how many ifs and maybes there are? The Dalish and the dwarves have not much contact to the Ferelden society (maybe more with Bhelen and Lanaya instead of Harrowmont and Zathrian or lady of the forrest).

 

True. There were some signs of that. If a companion, Leliana speaks very well of the Warden. If they helped her, Dagna says they are a hero to her. If the village was saved, you can find a huge statue in Redcliff. And the Wardens of the coast find that even fishermen in Ferelden have a better attitude towards the GW than in other countries. But that's it. The HoF will become a folk hero in Ferelden, not unlike Calenhad perhaps... but the rest of the world doesn't have to care about it.

[AedanStarfang]

I don't think, that the Crows and the Red Jennies had any interest in sharing their knowledge with the world. They would have to answer some questions, that would put them in a spotlight (not cool for organisations, relaying on secrecy).

Plus, Loghain and his lackies did everything they could, to play the Blight down and making the betrayal of the Grey Wardens the real issue. The refugees mostly came from Ostagar, Kocari Wilds and Lothering - compared to the rest of Ferelden very small pieces of land. Many fled the country altogether as seen in DA2. And don't forget that people mostly care about their own problems - so a Darkspawn attack on the other end of the country would probably be of no interest to peasants in Denerim, who have their own every day problems to struggle with. 

I find it only logical, that the HoF is mostly forgotten - there are exceptions: the eople of Redcliffe (if saved), Eamons family (if saved), the mages of Kinloch Hold (if saved), the dwarves for sure, because one way or another, the HoF gave them a king and the Dalish and/or the (former) werewolves. You see how many ifs and maybes there are? The Dalish and the dwarves have not much contact to the Ferelden society (maybe more with Bhelen and Lanaya instead of Harrowmont and Zathrian or lady of the forrest).

I

Oh yea I forget that the blight was mostly relegated to the Wilds/Lothering - Ostagar region (seems bigger in-game because all of the darkspawn + the grand battle with Urthemiel), and Loghain's smear campaign (shakes fist). 

[AFA]

Fanbois like Harding, more so than Hawke. So Bioware in their infinite wisdom said, lets make song for Harding. Joy.

 

I like Harding, but the Cult of Scout Office Hot has gotten kind of weird. Being one of the few attractive men/women in the game (she is one of maybe a dozen) seems to be a good way to make a breakout character.

 

Hawke not having a song is kind of conspicuous, since he/she already has a book based on them floating around. Seems like that would be good song fodder.

[Mistic]

Hawke not having a song is kind of conspicuous, since he/she already has a book based on them floating around. Seems like that would be good song fodder.

 

Yeah, but depending on who Hawke supported at the end of DAII and who the Inquisitor supported in the game, it may lead to some nasty criticism. Maryden never hides that she uses her songs to bolster the Inquisition in her own way, so avoiding touchy subjects makes sense.

 

Now, I wonder, if Vivienne, Sera or Iron Bull are never recruited, what happens to the Companions song in Trespasser?