75 réponses à ce sujet

[ZipZap2000]

Surprised this isn't a kitten thread already.


Back on topic we'll need something to eat its a big trip.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I'm pretty sure they have virtual pets in the future. Something that doesn't need air, food and water and can be turned off if power is scarce. You could probably make a fortune creating Pokemon VIs.

 

As QMR already said, it makes no sense to bring livestock or pets. If it's for settling new worlds, then having frozen genetic material is more efficient. You can then grow/clone the wanted animal when needed. Although introducing alien flora and fauna to an existing eco system is probably a bad idea. So of course someone will do it.

 

Something really small like Shepard's hamster or fishes I could see being possible. The drain on the resources (especially if no one else has pets) would be minimal and in the worst case, there's always the airlock.

[Salarian Master Race]

Livestock have an inefficient resource to calorie ratio. This was the primary reason quarians had a mostly vegan diet (only eating meats as a delicacy when stopping near alien systems). It wouldn't make sense to waste space on the ships bringing nonsapients, nor the resouces to keep them alive........

 

and yet we're bringing the krogan anyway.

I was listening to an earth documentary that had this farmer saying our current supply model is insustainable for exactly that reason.  He spends 1 year and 110 pounds of feed to produce 1.5 pounds of pork (per pig).  If that feed was instead raised as human vegan produce, he would literally produce 100 times more food, per pig.  Our dependance on meat, eggs, and dairy as staples in our diet is what causes food shortages.  20% of children in America are starving.  That's a substantial figure for a prominent world power.

[Scofield]

Wouldnt it be more of a DNA chamber or somein?

[Osena109]

I was listening to an earth documentary that had this farmer saying our current supply model is insustainable for exactly that reason.  He spends 1 year and 110 pounds of feed to produce 1.5 pounds of pork (per pig).  If that feed was instead raised as human vegan produce, he would literally produce 100 times more food, per pig.  Our dependance on meat, eggs, and dairy as staples in our diet is what causes food shortages.  20% of children in America are starving.  That's a substantial figure for a prominent world power.

If we stopped eating meat and dairy there would not be enough food any way its no win situation. we could not produce enough fruit and vegetables to feed every body.also it would send the food chain in to disorder  with out hunters to thin out the numbers of wild life there would be mass starvation.as much as the vegetarians and vegans want this its just not viable.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I was listening to an earth documentary that had this farmer saying our current supply model is insustainable for exactly that reason.  He spends 1 year and 110 pounds of feed to produce 1.5 pounds of pork (per pig).  If that feed was instead raised as human vegan produce, he would literally produce 100 times more food, per pig.  Our dependance on meat, eggs, and dairy as staples in our diet is what causes food shortages.  20% of children in America are starving.  That's a substantial figure for a prominent world power.

 

That being said, there is enough food available to feed every person on the planet. The problem is that many can't get to it or can't afford it. Instead up to a third of all food ends up being dumped as waste. Anything that isn't perfectly fresh doesn't sell, so it's being thrown away even if it's perfectly edible. It's not availability or lack of resources, it's accessibility. Plus, we produce a lot of food that is very inefficient and unhealthy. Our technology allows us to provide for 10 billion people on this planet, more if we can overcome economic, nationalistic and other political hurdles.

 

The numbers of 110 pounds of feed to 1.5 pounds of pork don't seem to be correct though. I just read up on raising pigs (a lot more science in it than I thought) and the ratio is closer to 2.5:1 after the first 7-8 weeks. Pigs gain up to one kilogram of meat every day for every 2.5kg of feed they consume.

 

Humans -are- dependent on animal protein, we're build that way. If you go vegeterian (or even vegan), you have to take supplements in some form to make up of  the lack of meat in your diet. Despite plants growing faster and consuming less resources, such a lifestyle is actually more expensive. So again, not something everyone could afford.

 

When I was in university, I started a project that simulated an optimized trade with resources between all nations on the planet. Take the surplus of one to cancel the deficit of another and so on and on until everyone was at the same level (which I had defined as the current standard of living in Germany). Of course, the entire thing was so huge that I would have needed a supercomputer just to keep track of all the variables so it never went anywhere. The preliminary draft showed lots of untapped potential in virtually every country, the problem was that capitalism got in the way.

For example, several years back farmers produced too much wheat and potatoes because of government subsidies. In the end huge amounts had to be destroyed because there was no market for it and storage wasn't feasible. There was no profit in shipping it to Africa where people starved nor was anyone ready to shoulder the costs of processing it locally to make free food for the poor and homeless.

You can find dozen examples like that in every country. Mismanagement, short-sighted planning and greed limit our possibilities in that area.

 

There are a lot of numbers being thrown around about meat (it takes x liters of water to get 1kg of meat into the store) and it paints a very dark picture... except that water isn't gone, it's just back in circulation. You can get decent meat for cheap in almost every supermarket, while enough protein in plant form would cost you at least twice that.

 

Back to the actual topic: I'm sure that in the future we can grow meat in vats, since scientists already managed to create something like that in a lab. It just needs to become affordable. (Or maybe that was an episode of Better Off Ted? Huh.) This would consume much less resources, wouldn't require us to kill anything and be less of a burden to the environment. Plus, it would allow us to have a healthy diet while traveling in space.

[Vox Draco]

Wouldnt it be more of a DNA chamber or somein?

 

I also think if they bring along animals, than merely as DNA for cloning them later. Wasn't there something along those lines in Interstellar as well, with humans though

[Oldren Shepard]

Livestock have an inefficient resource to calorie ratio. This was the primary reason quarians had a mostly vegan diet (only eating meats as a delicacy when stopping near alien systems). It wouldn't make sense to waste space on the ships bringing nonsapients, nor the resouces to keep them alive........

 

and yet we're bringing the krogan anyway.

I like this except the Krogan part

[capn233]

Sorry, everyone will have to be vegan since the energy requirements are lower.

[Killroy]

It would be much more beneficial to bring along a wide variety of seeds. Plants make for a much smarter diet. Resources shouldn't be wasted on livestock.

[ZipZap2000]

I like this except the Krogan part

Somebody has to do all the fighting. Might as well be somebody good at it.

[legbamel]

There's no reason to bring full-grown livestock and a full greenhouse along, but why would we assume, given the two different types of biology in our own galaxy, that the new one will have food compatible with our physiologies?  It makes sense to bring a genetic/seed bank and hedge our bets.

[Helios969]

Doubtful any living creatures beyond the sapient races.  They'll probably have a seed and DNA bank to reintroduce where the appropriate conditions are found.  You could bring exponentially more in a relatively small space.

[Salarian Master Race]

If we stopped eating meat and dairy there would not be enough food any way its no win situation. we could not produce enough fruit and vegetables to feed every body.also it would send the food chain in to disorder  with out hunters to thin out the numbers of wild life there would be mass starvation.as much as the vegetarians and vegans want this its just not viable.

There are no hunters thinning out the wildlife foodchain on a farm.  What?

[Killroy]

If we stopped eating meat and dairy there would not be enough food any way its no win situation. we could not produce enough fruit and vegetables to feed every body.also it would send the food chain in to disorder with out hunters to thin out the numbers of wild life there would be mass starvation.as much as the vegetarians and vegans want this its just not viable.

FYI, this is nonsense. We already produce enough food to feed the entire world, we just give a huge portion of it to livestock to produce meat. Meat production is wildly inefficient.

[Halfdan The Menace]

We need polar bears, direwolves, sabretooth cats and mastodons with highly-intelligent Yetis.

[ZipZap2000]

FYI, this is nonsense. We already produce enough food to feed the entire world, we just give a huge portion of it to livestock to produce meat. Meat production is wildly inefficient.

Because you can feed the third world with straw and molasses. Which is all we fed the beef on our station. They graze for the rest themselves. Its even easier to feed goats and chicken feed is mostly protein and steroids. Lambs don't get fed fruit and vegetables either and pigs get blended food scraps, trust me when I say you don't want people to eat that.

Things like horses and donkeys and camels get fruit or veg.

What you mean to say is current population levels are unsustainable. If we don't eat meat we devolve and become sickly. Your brain functions less effectively and your muscles decay.

To say we could send the food that wastes in richer nations, to poorer nations doesn't take into account the fact most of it will rot on the journey and send farmers broke.

Which means no food for the rest of us.

We need to feed livestock or we'll start dying out.

[Killroy]

Because you can feed the third world with straw and molasses. Which is all we fed the beef on our station. They graze for the rest themselves. Its even easier to feed goats and chicken feed is mostly protein and steroids. Lambs don't get fed fruit and vegetables either and pigs get blended food scraps, trust me when I say you don't want people to eat that.
Things like horses and donkeys and camels get fruit or veg.

Corn is the primary food source for livestock in America. More corn is fed to livestock than people.

What you mean to say is current population levels are unsustainable. If we don't eat meat we devolve and become sickly. Your brain functions less effectively and your muscles decay.

Sorry, but that's total BS. Plant-based protein is better for your body and meat is harder for your body to digest and extract beneficial nutrients from. Eating a meat-based diet is one of the worst things you can do to your body. The major benefits of meat to early was the calorie denseness and more readily available protein. But we have agriculture now. We're no longer foraging for high-protein sources of food.

To say we could send the food that wastes in richer nations, to poorer nations doesn't take into account the fact most of it will rot on the journey and send farmers broke.

Grains travel well. America sends grains all over the world.

Which means no food for the rest of us.
We need to feed livestock or we'll start dying out.

Again, total BS. Meat is not a dietary necessity. There are hundreds of thousands of people who have never eaten a piece of meat in their lives, and vegans live longer than meat-eaters.

And we haven't even gotten into how terrible the meat industry is for the planet.

[ZipZap2000]

Corn is the primary food source for livestock in America. More corn is fed to livestock than people.


Sorry, but that's total BS. Plant-based protein is better for your body and meat is harder for your body to digest and extract beneficial nutrients from. Eating a meat-based diet is one of the worst things you can do to your body. The major benefits of meat to early was the calorie denseness and more readily available protein. But we have agriculture now. We're no longer foraging for high-protein sources of food.


Grains travel well. America sends grains all over the world.


Again, total BS. Meat is not a dietary necessity. There are hundreds of thousands of people who have never eaten a piece of meat in their lives, and vegans live longer than meat-eaters.

And we haven't even gotten into how terrible the meat industry is for the planet.

This isn't a eutopian dream world where it all works out the way you plan it dude, I've lived on a station, fed the livestock and no its not mostly corn. Its largely corn, grain, proteins and growth hormones blended into a feed in order to produce bigger animals.

How else do you think wr grow a chicken from a chick so fast?

None of it can be fed to humans because its not stored to standard. (It comes with a label NOT FIT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION)

So far as grain travelling, by the time you realise you cant sell it, its full of mice bugs and assorted bacteria. Not fit for travel to other countries.

Plant based proteins are no substitute for meat, if it were lions could live on potatoes.

Meat evolved the human brain and built us into what we are. You cant fight evolution, try all you like.

[Killroy]

This isn't a eutopian dream world where it all works out the way you plan it dude, I've lived on a station, fed the livestock and no its not mostly corn. Its largely corn, grain, proteins and growth hormones blended into a feed in order to produce bigger animals.

How else do you think wr grow a chicken from a chick so fast?

Feeding animals growth hormones is not a good thing and growth hormones are not food. And FYI, corn is a grain, and 30 seconds on Google will tell you that livestock is eating more corn than anything else.

None of it can be fed to humans because its not stored to standard. (It comes with a label NOT FIT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION)

...you cannot be serious.

So far as grain travelling, by the time you realise you cant sell it, its full of mice bugs and assorted bacteria. Not fit for travel to other countries.

Grain IS sent all over the world. Successfully.

Plant based proteins are no substitute for meat, if it were lions could live on potatoes.

Again, you can't be serious.

Meat evolved the human brain and built us into what we are. You cant fight evolution, try all you like.

High quantities of protein were responsible, not meat. Every independent study shows that animal-protein is not as good as plant-protein. You can't fight facts, though you're obviously trying. But I am 75% sure you're trolling, so...

[KaiserShep]

Too bad meat is just so dang delicious. 

 

[ZipZap2000]

Too bad meat is just so dang delicious.

FACT.

You don't win friends with salad.

Also fact.

[N7Jamaican]

Too bad meat is just so dang delicious. 

 

 

LMAO!

[Shechinah]

Too bad meat is just so dang delicious. 

 

Eh, you can get vegetarian products which has a taste that is pretty much identical to their meat counterparts.

 

There's a local store where I live that sells vegetarian products including vegetarian beef that can be used to make a burger that has the same delicious taste as a burger bought at a local grillbar

[N7Jamaican]

Not everyone is going to want a purely vegetable diet.  But, I wouldn't be surprise if they are eating some type of nutritional paste on the ark.